Documentary concerning Seaworld ("Blackfish")

[thedevariouseffect]

What situation is it, I tried looking it up this afternoon and found nothing

[TTD-120-420]

If I remember correctly, Clinton stated during his campaign that he would be more open with the public and declassify currently classified information including Area 51 info.

Once elected, a reporter quoted Clinton saying that, and asked when the Area 51 info would become available. Clinton responded "I don't know what you are talking about," and gave a nice big smile.

Edited December 29, 2013 by TTD-120-420

[faeriewench]

*gasp* orcas perform while.....naked!!!

http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-documentary-reveals-seaworld-forced-orca-whale,34449/

Oh, it is just The Onion....

[Tanna]

How could you have possibly posted a link that reveals a pant-less whale?

[The Interpreter]

Something's very fishy here.

Terp, sneaking out the door...

[Creed Bratton]

I saw that pop up on Facebook and had to laugh! But so despicable...they need to get them at least wet suits.

[thedevariouseffect]

Terp, sneaking out the door...

Watches Terp exit via MQ-9 circling overhead

It's what we do everyday

[Tanna]

I saw that pop up on Facebook and had to laugh! But so despicable...they need to get them at least wet suits.

Considering the trainers sometimes wear Black wetsuits with the ghost white blotches that are found on orca, would the orca complete the circuit by wearing flesh tone colors?

[Creed Bratton]

I think that'd be best....OSHA couldn't get mad at the risk of other trainers mixing the trainers on duty up for the whales! Great idea! ;-)

[RailRider]

Finally watched Blackfish and there are a few things that stand out to me. First I will not get in to the whole captivity debate, I have always had mixed feelings on all wild animal captivity. Hate some of the smallish enclosures, but I visit zoos and I love the Kilimanjaro Safari at AK. So I'm not going down that road. But...

Sea World has done a horrible PR job with the backlash from BlackFish. They are in the tourist industry and consumers are fickle. Their PR reaction is very similar to the one Carnival Cruise Lines took when their ship went dead in the water. You either get ahead of the bad press and be proactive about the good things you do or take the Sea World approach and ignore. Not a smart option, especially now that you see a big festival like the Bar BBq and Brew is pretty much done.

Sea World is a business that makes money, they have share holders who want them to make money and if they save some animals along the way that is just good press (this is the business/shareholder perspective). They are not a non profit environmental organization so don't expect them to act like one.

Blackfish while filled with many holes, does raise some interesting questions. I for one never realized how extensive their Orca breeding program was and how a whale like Tilly is very valuable to that program and to the companies bottom line. Very interesting indeed.

What happened to Dawn and the other trainers that have been killed is tragic. I wish both sides would do a better job respecting that and I feel the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Sea World has quite the deep hole to dig out of. They better start doing some positive PR regarding conservation and developments in their Orca research. Not selling me on what new great ride they have coming. They no longer have a giant like AB or InBev backing them so issues like this are much more damaging.

Shall be interesting to watch through 2014 and on.

[faeriewench]

Sea World has done a horrible PR job with the backlash from BlackFish. They are in the tourist industry and consumers are fickle. Their PR reaction is very similar to the one Carnival Cruise Lines took when their ship went dead in the water. You either get ahead of the bad press and be proactive about the good things you do or take the Sea World approach and ignore. Not a smart option, especially now that you see a big festival like the Bar BBq and Brew is pretty much done.

While I do agree it is a PR nightmare, (some of the stories I been told about the protestors been really bad) SeaWorld actually hasn't completely ignored it with their statement and that alone had its errors with how it was presented. That was their chance to highlight the good they have done but they didn't, there were some things said where I had to sort of side-eye. Some of the statements, they didn't clarify enough making them look more questionable than before. Blackfish sure has its flaws, it is entirely sensationalist, it used various editing techniques to make things more dramatic, and they used footage that wasn't even showing the event they were talking about among many other things. Even the way the interviews were ordered didn't help matters. Though they did point out some flaws I wish SeaWorld would fix. But that message is so lost, it's a jumbled mess, everyone is just left with "shut down SeaWorld" as the only conclusion they can come to which will not help the animals at all.

Their response, I will admit, was really a lot of reading. Me and my friend had a massive brain fart reading the statement about only 2 wild caught killer whales are in the parks, but we totally missed the collected BY SeaWorld part (Kasatka and Katina in the fall of 1978).

"Only two of the whales in our care were collected by SeaWorld and they continue to be in our care today.

We forgot for a brief moment Ulises, Tillikum and Corky were originally captured for somebody else entirely and not SeaWorld.

[shark6495]

Unfortunately, in today's day and age, the form of your media presentation matters just the same or more than what is being said. Blackfish showed a movie with great sound bites. Things that can be played over and over and over. Easily used on tv with cover video, etc.

Compared to Sea World issuing a written statement on its web site. This would be read by people wanting to read it. How different would that message had been had it been read by Jim Atchison (Sea World CEO)

During the reading they have Jim Positioned in front of an Orca or any other animal. They then show video of the care and protection of the animals. Maybe add in a quick quote from a well respected conservationist stating that Sea World is doing more good than harm.

I think it would have hit much harder and better than the statement on the web site.

[Tanna]

Sometimes it takes more than a 'No Sale' sign popping up inside someone's mind while watching a movie like Blackfish. Some people aren't going to see the holes as easily as others, and other people aren't going to take time to look and see why those glaring holes are there. It's an emotionally driven film, it's supposed to be. Emotions don't go "Hey waitiminnit- that makes no sense."

Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with a series of commercials focusing on the conservation activity. There are already video podcasts of saving animals on the site, but to put some of the efforts out there in the mass media for people to see would be nice, especially for people like me, who just found out they had more than Shamu.

(Anyone wanting to avoid insulin shock would do well to avoid the book "Death at SeaWorld" also. I picked it up at 1/2Price books- and to be frank, if a book as more adjectives than nouns, it's crap.

All the activists are sweet, endearing, perfect, true, and kind, and levitate six inches off the ground under the power of their very goodness. All CEO's evilly rub their hands together and order another orca sandwich, laughing maniacally to themselves, knowing they are only going to eat half the whale sandwich and are NOT going to order a doggy bag.)

[bkroz]

Another thing: a very large chunk of the folks who watched this documentary or heard enough of it to decide to never visit a SeaWorld Park probably had never visited one before and had no plans to do so anytime soon anyway.

Another large chunk will carry out their boycott of SeaWorld on their next vacation and opt to spend that extra day at Busch Gardens, instead. Believe you me. Someone I follow on Twitter who is not a park enthusiast tweeted from Virginia's Christmastown: "Well, my boycott of SeaWorld lasted all of three days - turns out they own Busch Gardens!"

When these kinds of things happen, companies basically decide to either stay the course and let the protesters tire themselves out, or stand up and say something definite and concrete and loud. SeaWorld opted for the former, and are now beginning to inch toward the latter. In retrospect, we can easily say "They should've countered this the second it came up!" but how were they to know Blackfish would get to this point? At what exact moment did it go from a let-it-pass to a stand-and-fight? Just myself, I can't believe they've been so relaxed. Their official replies tackle each of Blackfish's accusations in neat bullet points. To me, it would've behooved them to say "The documentary also didn't mention that we do this, this, and this" or "These whales simply can't be freed at this point - they'd die."

[Tanna]

Boycotts are easy, action is hard.

I can say I've been boycotting Seaworld all my life, and after looking it over, hope to end this silly inaction.

I've also been boycotting Paris, New Zealand, Alaska and Toledo, for no reason than I've never been to those places.

That man I married has been to Busch Gardens, He liked it, speaks about it often.

(take a look on Twitter, sometimes. I am the only person in the universe that has not been a trainer at Seaworld.)

Edited to add on 1/11/14:

Blackfish Exposed by Former SeaWorld Trainer http://micechat.com/53915-blackfish-exposed/ via @micechat

Hm. Blackfish Backlash. Yes, I'm still spending my reading time on this.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Tanna

[Tanna]

Big favor to ask of forum members:

If anyone comes across any free trip contests to Seaworld, please tell me.
I don't care how many old farts who haven't been relevant since MTV played music don't play- better for me, i won't have to listen to their twangy old nastiness. If they were good, they'd still be playing packed auditoriums, like Rush.
I want to see this park.
It's now a bucket list aspiration.

(so far found one at Coke Rewards for 3 Coke points.)

[faeriewench]

I am glad you decided that you want to see a SeaWorld park. Do you know which location you'd prefer? Just curious I am getting a pass through the San Antonio park and was talking to one of my SoCal friends for when I am out there in October and well....SeaWorld San Diego is a go this year too. lol Was going to try Six Flags Magic Mountain then but I changed my mind.

[faeriewench]

http://bit.ly/1ePAG5F

Pushing back against speculation that fallout from the film “Blackfish” is hurting its business, SeaWorld Entertainment Inc. said Monday that its world-famous marine parks set a fourth-quarter attendance record and that it will soon report the highest annual revenue in its 50-year history.

The Orlando-based theme-park owner said its three namesake marine parks — in Orlando, San Diego and San Antonio — combined to post their best-ever attendance for the September-through-December quarter, which includes most of the critical holiday travel season.

[Tanna]

Honestly, I'm saving to go towards Orlando. I don't know if Tillikum is allowed at the walkthrough tanks or not, but combining my desire to NOT fear giant huge things, I'll like to see the largest whale I can get my eyes on, but really any large whale will do.

I really want to see the Arctic Zone, too.

It's not just the spectacle of seeing my favorite animals up close, it's the conservation and re-habilitation that's appealing to me. Closed to the public, and yet, there it is. Rehabilitating things.

It was either go to Seaworld, or power up a big ole oil spewing motorboat and chug out to the ocean on a whale watching tour, then, go to a non-smoking activist's house, and puff on some Swisher's allover the house, because that's what a whale watching tour is, only oceanic.

I'm glad people are going in droves. By boycotting the park, people are boycotting the animals.

Edited to add- they have a sort of Winterfest down there. It would be great to attend a Winterfest and not freeze.

[Outdoor Man]

.

[Outdoor Man]

Honestly, I'm saving to go towards Orlando. I don't know if Tillikum is allowed at the walkthrough tanks or not, but combining my desire to NOT fear giant huge things, I'll like to see the largest whale I can get my eyes on, but really any large whale will do.

I really want to see the Arctic Zone, too.

It's not just the spectacle of seeing my favorite animals up close, it's the conservation and re-habilitation that's appealing to me. Closed to the public, and yet, there it is. Rehabilitating things.

It was either go to Seaworld, or power up a big ole oil spewing motorboat and chug out to the ocean on a whale watching tour, then, go to a non-smoking activist's house, and puff on some Swisher's allover the house, because that's what a whale watching tour is, only oceanic.

I'm glad people are going in droves. By boycotting the park, people are boycotting the animals.

Edited to add- they have a sort of Winterfest down there. It would be great to attend a Winterfest and not freeze.

Went to the "Winterfest" last year in Orlando (December 2012)... we froze.

with respect to the ex-trainers interviews... Allow the Simpson's to explain some of their stories:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d51_1343322862

[Tanna]

Bum deal.

I'm hoping Florida freeze is better than Ohio freeze.

[The Interpreter]

It isn't. When it gets cold there (or in Atlanta), the humidity causes the chill to go to the bone. And most buildings have inadequate heating systems, if any at all.

I almost went to Orlando last week. There were days the high was 45 there. I stayed here in DC.

[faeriewench]

Honestly, I'm saving to go towards Orlando. I don't know if Tillikum is allowed at the walkthrough tanks or not, but combining my desire to NOT fear giant huge things, I'll like to see the largest whale I can get my eyes on, but really any large whale will do.

Dunno what you meant by "walkthrough" tanks but Tillikum is allowed in all tanks and is in all of them at one point just about each day. Where he is, sometimes depends on where everyone else is due to Katina (the pod matriarch) not liking him, or what the trainers got going on and Tilly himself doesn't like too much exposure to the other orcas (he actually prefers to be alone at times). Trua is the primary orca that is kept with Tillikum as of late so if you see Tilly he'll either be alone or will have Trua with him. Trua is still a growing male going into his adolescences so telling them apart is easy as he is not full grown. And when the show pool is open, he is typically found in the DWS (Dine with Shamu) pool, the shaded pool behind the stadium or the stadium pool. They don't hide him anymore like they did immediately following the incident when he wasn't physically used in shows.

I've heard stories from other park goers of Tillikum's daughter and granddaughter being with him as well, but I yet to see any photo or video proof (my friends that work at the park say they yet to see that too) so until then that is just a rumor in my mind especially since both girls are nearing breeding age now. Trua and his sister look similar so my guess one got mistaken for the other.

[Tanna]

By walkthrough, I'm meaning the tanks where you can stand, and the full length aquarium window is in front of you, so you can see them underwater. I guess I'm using the mental imagery of the Cincinnati zoo, where there seems to be tanks one right after another that you walk through a corrider to see.

I've seen a video of a little girl in the "walkthrough", hands against the glass as Tillikum and, I guess it would be Trua, brought some of their toys to the window, i think it's a recent video. Common sense would dictate it's called a viewing window. I seemed to lack that at the time of the previous post.

Thanks for the info, I'll know to look for the least crowded tank.

[faeriewench]

Yeah the under water viewing at the Orlando park (and same for the San Diego park. San Antonio actually doesnt have any due to the state of Texas' own laws) is at the Dine with Shamu pool. Tillikum is a usual sight there when he isn't performing.

[jdf21972]

I just requested it from my local library to see this. Want to know more about this film.

Sent from my iPhone using Taptalk

[faeriewench]

I've seen a video of a little girl in the "walkthrough", hands against the glass as Tillikum and, I guess it would be Trua, brought some of their toys to the window, i think it's a recent video.

I may have seen that, and that would be Trua. He seems to been a good thing for Tillikum, as he has been a lot more playful at the viewing glass, especially with Trua present. It is very important, as I said, for the male orcas and just about all species of dolphins to have access to other males. Lone males with a bunch of busy females can and do drive the females nuts resulting in separations. (see the situation at Kamogawa SeaWorld in Japan...Earth, a juvenile, is separated from his mom, aunt and little sister and has been for some time)

[XGatorHead 8904]

I refuse to see the movie because I don't like to get myself worked up and yelling at the screen over one-sided sensationalism, but I have a question. Where did they get the name for the movie, as whales aren't fish?

[faeriewench]

Blackfish for the longest time (at least as far as I am aware) was mainly used to reference Pilot whales. So anytime I hear "Blackfish" I actually think of those guys instead. But there was a time us humans would mistaken orcas from pilots or false killer whales....especially false killer whales (also known as pseudorca)