Documentary concerning Seaworld ("Blackfish")

[faeriewench]

I've searched the whole thread for where this quote was said by me, and cannot find it.

In fact, it doesn't sound like my voice.

And also, you've isolated the quote, taking it out the context in which the original poster meant, and inserted a topic unrelated to the original premise from which the quote was taken- as if we were not debating keeping the whales at Seaworld vs. setting them free in the ocean, but that we were comparing the cessation of Seaworld shows vs. genocide.

Can you give me exact post I said this? If you cannot, can you at least apologize for implying I see no wrong with genocide? That is a big fish, no pun intended, to throw at someone.

I said it and thank you for saying my thoughts.

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

Sorry Tanna, you did not say that quote. There was so much imbedded stuff I could not quote as I normally would without cluttering this thread. In the process of trying to cut out the less important text, I unintentionally mixed up you and faeriewench.

I have now edited the post; putting words in other people's mouth is one of the last things I would do.

Will you ever forgive me?

[Tanna]

Of course,. Thank you.

[bkroz]

I'm not sure if this micro-site appeared today, very recently, or a while ago, but SeaWorld has launched a campaign against Blackfish, just in time for the myriad of trainers who are coming out of the woodwork saying they were misquoted and their interviews edited.

www.seaworld.com/truth/

It should be a surprise to no one that Blackfish is propaganda, created by folks with a very particular bias and goal. They use (and misuse) audio and video to tell stories that, SeaWorld argues, they knew through investigative documents were not true but would inject an emotional angle to the film. A page on the new website chronicles each incident in the film that's raised red flags and counters it with SeaWorld's version and simple, factual clarifications through third party sites and documents.

At this point, this is what SeaWorld needed to do - they need to launch an equally-sized campaign to at least call Blackfish's motives into question so that people will begin to hear a dialogue. The slew of trainers who are reporting that they were misquoted or misled in the film's purpose combined with the filmmakers asking those trainers to hold their comments until after award season is building an incriminating aura around the film, and SeaWorld is right to take those opportunities to make their case.

Of course, SeaWorld is also biased and has reason to tip things in a particular direction just as Blackfish did. But their argument links to specialists, interviewed trainers, employment history, and OSHA representatives who are much more grounded in fact than Blackfish.

[The Interpreter]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. He who deceives and misrepresents is entitled to a presumption of not being credible or trustworthy.

Let the facts speak for themselves.

[ethancoaster]

The Blackfish people are clever in making this movie. They did a very good job at instigating simply because it's easy to convince people using lies if the people are dumb enough to believe them. I'm more frustrated at the people that still believe this bull crap and the people who act like they are experts simply because they watched a movie on Netflix. To me, saying that you know everything about Seaworld from watching a one-sided movie is like me saying that I know everything about CGI because I watched Transformers.

[Tanna]

I will give it this; it fired up my winter reading list. Jack London only wrote so many books.

[The Interpreter]

There's always Upton Sinclair.

Terp cited for many reasons...

[Tanna]

Seaworld's got the contests, don't they? And me with a fresh bag of bottle tops.

I'll probably have the money in my pocket before I win a contest, but it's something to do over the winter besides work.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/local/article/PETA-challenges-SeaWorld-in-the-classroom-5182663.php

PETA is going into classrooms asking the teachers and students to forego their field trip to Seaworld.

I don't think the kids are going to hoist the activists up on their shoulders and huzzah parade around the room with that one, but from what I recall, I liked going to the bread factory just to get out of class.

[XGatorHead 8904]

Right now, I feel the need to apologize to all the literally butthurt Miami University dorm students. I'm the one that campaigned for recycled paper to be used throughout the college, and that means the toilet paper, too. Yeh, I knew it was rough, but to be honest, I lived in an apartment at time, and bought my own Charmin, and rationalized it as, "It'll help you realize how important it is to get out on your own and buy nice TP."

If you did this before or during the time period of 1991-1995, then you and I need to have a talk. You really chapped my hind hide.

-Gator

Emerson Hall '91-'92, Hepburn Hall '92-'93, RA in Brandon Hall '93-'94, RA in McFarland Hall '94-'95

[Tanna]

Yeh...sorry about that.

Did my activist's rationalization work? (I'm starting to believe rationalization is the Original Sin.) Did it impel you to get out of the dorms? That's what I told myself at the time, at least. And of course, save trees. Surrounded by trees in an Ohio rainforest, and I'm tearing apart peoples' behinds for trees.

I could have just worked and saved money and bought acreage and planted trees, but jeez, who would do that, besides some of the largest paper companies in the world?

It actually just started as a class report for "Environmental Anthropology 501" and took off from there, due the Activist Snowball Effect. The only thing my liberal arts degree taught me was "Know your enemy."

I graduated from Miami University in 1992.

[XGatorHead 8904]

Yeh...sorry about that.

Did my activist's rationalization work? (I'm starting to believe rationalization is the Original Sin.) Did it impel you to get out of the dorms?

Unfortunately not. As much as I would have liked to have lived off-campus with any number of friends with a side benefit of being able to use nice, fluffy toilet paper, financially it worked out best for me to be an RA my junior and senior years, even if it meant subjecting my rear to the thin stuff. Also, since the university TP had to be doubled over roughly (yup, double meaning to that word) 5 to 6 times to equal one sheet of the cushy-tushy stuff that you apparently used, in my estimation it could have actually caused more paper to be used than if we had had the good stuff.

This off-season has officially reached a new low with this tangential toilet tissue talk.

[Tanna]

This is your brain on activism:

i knew there were people that had such a heavy class load that they couldn't take jobs that would finance independent living, and couldn't afford the extra expense of personal TP. Also, the way dorm life is set up, good TP would have been 'borrowed' (like they would bring it back) and the borrowers wouldn't replace the decent TP with an equally nice roll. I knew people were saving money by living in the dorms.

I knew you had to quadruple over that sandpaper to use it, thus blowing the whole "Save the Earth" thing out of water. The only thing good about that TP was that it was never stolen.

Watch out for the people that say,"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Because they aren't the ones getting killed, they're back behind the lines, with cushy stuff in their possession.

But if I pulled this recycled paper deal off, I was going to be able to blow off this class the rest of the year, because the professor was such a slacker, he didn't want to teach, and I didn't want to sit and listen to him. And of course, Cred. Credibility gets you more leeway to blow off your senior year.

And the most glaring of all factoids- the wood chipper TP wasn't going to affect me, personally.

I was born in 1963, and graduated in 1992. It took me that long because I would go to college for a year, then Take off a year, work, then have the money to afford anther year. I had means and time to get the dough together. Most students did not.

Plus, I got the consolation prizes of college degrees, Anthropology, but it was the easiest, (it's all BS), and less time consuming to get, so I could still work during the semester, and live in that creepy cool house by the postoffice, with my massive collection of Charmin.

Oh yeh, and "I changed the world, man!" For the worse, but I changed it. There are cadres of people out there that hate me, and rightfully so.

I don't blame you a bit if you now read my posts with clenched teeth and other orifices. I made a lot of people unhappy, for really no good reason other than to avoid a droning professor who hated his job.

When one is activating, if that's the word, you don't sit down and make a list of pros and cons, you only make a list of the pros, and most of those pros are twisted to benefit your personal agenda. You turn into Machiavelli and brainwash yourself it's for the greater good, when really it's so you can avoid waking up early.

In your mind, the trees are saved, you are a "good" person, unicorns will once again be able to fart rainbows, and orcas that were born in a theme park will magically be able to fend for themselves in the ocean with no problems at all.

When I see activists, I know their engine, I'm aware of their mindset, and I look for their selfish motivations.

[JTR]

I don't know why SeaWorld is being targeted. It seems entirely wrongheaded on the part of the protesters. Unlike your typical zoo, SeaWorld has A LOT of money. They won't be taken down easily. And unlike your typical zoo, SeaWorld's animal enclosures are state of the art and well maintained. Animal rights protestors would be more effective targeting small- and medium-sized zoos. Not only are they easier to handle, they often don't have the funds to upgrade older exhibits and only do so when they must meet new minimum standards for accreditation. Not saying these zoos are "bad," they just don't have the same resources as a SeaWorld or larger zoo. I'm sure the extremists behind the SeaWorld attack know that their chances of actually shutting down a park or leading SeaWorld to release their Orca population to the wild (very inhumane idea) are slim-to-none; they're wasting a bunch of people's time and obfuscating their own point in the hopes that they might get a flashy win for their organization. Meanwhile, there are animals in much worse conditions that they could actually be helping.

[faeriewench]

I don't know why SeaWorld is being targeted. It seems entirely wrongheaded on the part of the protesters. Unlike your typical zoo, SeaWorld has A LOT of money. They won't be taken down easily. And unlike your typical zoo, SeaWorld's animal enclosures are state of the art and well maintained. Animal rights protestors would be more effective targeting small- and medium-sized zoos.

I'm not convinced animal rights people actually care about the animals as much as they really just hate SeaWorld.

Not SeaWorld or Blackfish related (though I wish the animal rights people would actually give some attention to this)

This article talks about a killer whale show opening at Kish Dolphin Park, which is an Iranian park. This park is one of the recipients of the recently captured Russian whales and from I am able to gather as I read further this one will be living as a single orca. (when you click the article that is a image ripped from SeaWorld of Kasatka and Nakai when he was a baby at the top so ignore it)

http://news.freezones.ir/Default.aspx?tabid=96&articleType=ArticleView&articleId=1365

Just what we need, more lone orcas. I am glad SeaWorld took Shouka in, wish something could be done for Kiska, Kshamenk and Toki.

[Tanna]

I can understand not letting orcas born into captivity go into the ocean, but I am bothered by the whales that have just been captured even though we have evolved beyond that.

Humans take a long time to get the picture, don't we?

The Iranian whale is newly captured from the ocean, and is now isolated?

I understand that it would be difficult to protest this, due to the physical distance, but also because of the political environment these new whales are in.

Let's face it, it's easy to protest Seaworld in America, we take our freedom of speech for granted, but I like my head on my shoulders, I'd be afraid to be an Iranian activist.

[faeriewench]

I can understand not letting orcas born into captivity go into the ocean, but I am bothered by the whales that have just been captured even though we have evolved beyond that.

Humans take a long time to get the picture, don't we?

The Iranian whale is newly captured from the ocean, and is now isolated?

I understand that it would be difficult to protest this, due to the physical distance, but also because of the political environment these new whales are in.

Let's face it, it's easy to protest Seaworld in America, we take our freedom of speech for granted, but I like my head on my shoulders, I'd be afraid to be an Iranian activist.

Or Russian activist apparently. The other countries that are receiving these whales are China (Chimelong Ocean Kingdom) and Russia.

[Tanna]

Perhaps we can sell the idea of "X-Treme" protesting to the activists. It's just like regular protesting, but in dictatorships, and with more Dorito powder on top.

http://news.yahoo.com/dolphin-bites-child-hand-seaworld-190106170.html;_ylt=AwrBEiSDFhFTjgoANLvQtDMD

Here we go again. Amazingly, no video footage, just a still photo, so we can't see exactly how the dolphin was approached to have the result of the girl's hand firmly in front of its' mouth.

[Gabe]

A California lawmaker has proposed a bill that would outlaw orca shows at all California parks:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/03/07/san-diego-seaworld-orca-shows/6162331/

[The Interpreter]

Were I in charge at SeaWorld, I'd lobby against passage, making clear that were it to pass, the park would be closed and the land subdivided and sold as individual lots.

[shark6495]

From that link

"These beautiful creatures are much too large and far too intelligent to be confined in small, concrete tanks for their entire lives. It is time to end the practice of keeping orcas captive for human amusement."

But keeping the following animals are okay though: Lions, Tigers, Bears (OH My), birds, gorillas, other apes, monkeys, goats, horses, giraffes, antelopes, peacocks, penguins, sheep, dolphins, sea lions, otters, wolves, bearcats, dingos, bats, mice, etc etc etc etc

You can say Zoos are only for educational purposes, but many go to the zoos to see the animals. That would be entertainment.... To me this just seems like a politician cashing in on the latest "cause"....

[Tanna]

A California lawmaker has proposed a bill that would outlaw orca shows at all California parks:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/03/07/san-diego-seaworld-orca-shows/6162331/

I came here as soon as I saw the article, wanting to hear peoples' input.

Shark6495 expressed my thoughts perfectly. The only concern is in a particular set of whales, most of which were born in captivity.

What about the other marine parks in California? Isn't there a Six Flags with dolphins?

Dance around the issue all they like, an orca is just a huge kinescope dolphin.

Just because they are smaller in size, the dolphins get a 'meh'?

What about fat office workers stuffed into cubicles? if they wear black and white, will they be freed?

[faeriewench]

From that link

"These beautiful creatures are much too large and far too intelligent to be confined in small, concrete tanks for their entire lives. It is time to end the practice of keeping orcas captive for human amusement."

But keeping the following animals are okay though: Lions, Tigers, Bears (OH My), birds, gorillas, other apes, monkeys, goats, horses, giraffes, antelopes, pea****s, penguins, sheep, dolphins, sea lions, otters, wolves, bearcats, dingos, bats, mice, etc etc etc etc

You can say Zoos are only for educational purposes, but many go to the zoos to see the animals. That would be entertainment.... To me this just seems like a politician cashing in on the latest "cause"....

And Elephants....they are the first to come to my mind when I think of incidents with zookeepers. I'd think they'd have a better case if it was about Elephants. I find this frustrating because there are so many animal rights issues that get ignored because people get focused only on SeaWorld.

Kind of offf topic and kind of not... There was an incident recently with a wild orca nearly drowning a human in New Zealand about a month ago, and some activists have tried to spin that that it wasn't an attack. An orca doing a death spiral not part of an attack even though it is apart of prey pursuit? Ok. Attacks in the wild are not common, but they do happen. *shakes head*

[shark6495]

Common sense would tell you that attacks would be common in captive areas than in the wild because in captivity man and animals are in closer proximity more often.

To me that doesnt mean they are more willing to attack in captivity but the chance to do so is greater.

[faeriewench]

^ exactly. Trying to make it sound like it is not possible in the wild is absurd though, there have been a handful of incidents in the wild, including another serious one involving a surfer. It's just not common, shoot in captivity it isn't all that often either. (unless its elephants again...where attacks are common both in wild and captivity)

What happened to that diver could have been extremely fatal, he was lucky to loosen himself from his equipment in time before he drowned or been killed. It's interesting though about the New Zealand orcas, because one of the loudest activists around these days lives there. She don't like people in the water with them and yet she tries to ride on the backs of the wild ones she studies. *shrug*

[bkroz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proposed bill would outlaw their captivity for entertainment purposes. SeaWorld San Diego is accredited through the AZA up to March 2015 as of now, and it doesn't seem likely that their designation as a zoological park will be ended at that time. If this bill were to pass, could SeaWorld not continue to care for and house orcas through its zoo program, eliminating the "entertainment" aspect?

We also know, despite Blackfish's claims, that those orcas can't be released into the wild. It seems logical that any animal raised in captivity is going to be unsuited for the wild unless rehabilitation toward release is part of their life throughout captivity.

I'm no expert, but it seems like SeaWorld is almost entirely a traditional zoo with a few select animals trained for entertainment. Not that it would be ideal for their marketing and business plan, but could that "entertainment" aspect just fade away if need be?

[faeriewench]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the proposed bill would outlaw their captivity for entertainment purposes. SeaWorld San Diego is accredited through the AZA up to March 2015 as of now, and it doesn't seem likely that their designation as a zoological park will be ended at that time. If this bill were to pass, could SeaWorld not continue to care for and house orcas through its zoo program, eliminating the "entertainment" aspect?

We also know, despite Blackfish's claims, that those orcas can't be released into the wild. It seems logical that any animal raised in captivity is going to be unsuited for the wild unless rehabilitation toward release is part of their life throughout captivity.

I'm no expert, but it seems like SeaWorld is almost entirely a traditional zoo with a few select animals trained for entertainment. Not that it would be ideal for their marketing and business plan, but could that "entertainment" aspect just fade away if need be?

If it even passes, which I doubt it will anyway.

Here is a different article: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/mar/06/bill-would-ban-seaworld-orca-performances-a/

"The park would still be allowed to put whales on exhibit in settings similar to aquariums, but not used for performance or entertainment purposes. The legislation describes entertainment purposes as “any routinely scheduled public exhibition that is characterized by music or other sound effects, choreographed display or training for that display, or unprotected contact between humans and orcas.”

So change the shows and remove the music.... >_> the training sessions are their exercise.

[TTD-120-420]

http://gawker.com/california-assemblyman-is-trying-to-put-seaworld-out-of-1539527301

Like always, the comments are the most interesting.

[shark6495]

Okay this comment made me laugh. I thought I had to share it...

The (censor) things aren't floating around in the park of night dreaming of the Atlantic. They're bored. They're like any other animal without a concept of the past or future. That said, what's been done to these animals has been cruel and continues to be cruel, and just for decency's sake needs to (censor) stop.

But don't get behind that movement thinking that Shamu is sitting in his salt tank with fin pressed thoughtfully against what passes for his chin, dreaming of dancing with the seaweed and starfish. The (censor)'s bored, and when you're a bored killer whale, you eat people. Because what else are you going to do.

But in all seriousness.... People need to stop with these pseudo feel good messes. Lets look honestly at problems bigger than Sea World keeping Orcas in captivity (that would most certainly die if released), famine across the globe, child prostitution, gambling and drug addiction, lack of mental health services, slavery, missing airplanes, possible wars in Russia, terrorism, etc etc etc. Orcas in captivity is slightly low on the list, to be brutally honest.

So if people want orcas to not be held for performances what about lions, seals, tigers, dogs, elephants, etc in circuses?

Lets look at food. Are these same people okay with the way veal is raised (baby cows in small cages) or factory farms. For goodness sake, sometimes people just pick weird claims to put their stake in. All of this because of a semi decently done documentary that does not actively affect many of these people. Where is the outrage following the documentary of "Who Killed the Electric Car" or the documentaries detailing poverty in America or the differences in education between predominately white vs black neighborhoods...

Somewhere our priorities got messed up as a country...

[Tanna]

^ exactly. Trying to make it sound like it is not possible in the wild is absurd though, there have been a handful of incidents in the wild, including another serious one involving a surfer. It's just not common, shoot in captivity it isn't all that often either. (unless its elephants again...where attacks are common both in wild and captivity)

What happened to that diver could have been extremely fatal, he was lucky to loosen himself from his equipment in time before he drowned or been killed. It's interesting though about the New Zealand orcas, because one of the loudest activists around these days lives there. She don't like people in the water with them and yet she tries to ride on the backs of the wild ones she studies. *shrug*

Ha! I was right! She's just sour that she can't have her own whale.

It's probably just me, but I find the whales just playing to be a good show. If I end up going to California to see the whales, I'll have to frown the entire time I'm watching them play, just so any politicians watching can be sure I'm not entertained.

Couldn't their interacting with humans and communicating through interpretive dance be considered educational? They can't just float around in a pool the rest of their lives, like the article says, they have brains.

I'd noted that New Zealand incident, I did find it odd that in the wild, the whale was just 'playing'. A captive whale doing the same thing is a psychological break.

Comments in the article suggest tug boating out to Puget Sound to see the whales. Imagine a days worth of Seaworld patrons tooling out into the water to view these whales in the wild- my first reaction is "Pee-yoo" to all the pollution.

It's a sick little trendy mess. Some actor I completely forgot the name of twittered that he saw a kid with a Shamu toy on his plane ride, and wanted to punch the mom.

Keep it classy, I always say.