Hulk trains in trash

[shark6495]

Not to be that guy but yeah.... I wouldn't expect anything but the best from Universal and/or Disney. The parks are fighting for the same tourist dollars practically

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The difference is Disney takes their sweet time to get new lands and attractions up and running, while Universal seems to be on a whole different level of production while still producing at a level on par with Disney (in recent years anyway).

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I don't want to start an argument but this line always gets bounced around with little to no "facts" to back it up other than assumptions. Harry Potter IOA was announced and construction started in 07 and finished in 2010.

Avatar started construction in 14 and assumed completion in 17.

2011-2014 for the Second part of Harry Potter land to open up.

2010-2014 for Fantasy Lands upgrade at magic kingdom.

Kong Island from 13-16

To be honest the timelines seem almost similar. Plus Disney for the most part is working with timeless attractions and characters while Universal is working with a limited character audience. The timeless characters means that the change don't have to happen as often.

And maybe it's media coverage. Because thugs change a bit faster at Universal it could be that things are not released as early or found out about as they are over at Disney.

Star Wars land announced in 15 construction to begin in 16 and most likely finished in 18... Not really different that Harry Potter.

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[shark6495]

I type all of that and say I really enjoy both resorts. Both are wonderful. I love the content at a Universal aAnd the dedication at Disney.

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[marth555]

The 2nd part of Potter wasnt started until after part 1 was a huge success and the Kongstruction didnt really start until late 2014

[shark6495]

Look at what I wrote. Construction started in 11 and finished in 14. Construction started about a year after construction ended on the first part.

Planning probably started during construction of the first part.

Pointing out a fact (construction taking about 3 years) doesn't make Universal bad.

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[The Interpreter]

But, but...the love of Disney is not universal. Not everything in parks America is a palace. See world? There are more than six ways to have fun. Look at life more broadly. Have an Alabama splash adventure. Make yours a holiday world. Dolly would. Kenny would. Visit a Camden park. And finish with a coney island. Since this is so cheesy, don't forget the mustard!

[shark6495]

Terp it's like you took a slice of Americana and served it on a plate ...

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[thegajone]

I don't want to start an argument but this line always gets bounced around with little to no "facts" to back it up other than assumptions. Harry Potter IOA was announced and construction started in 07 and finished in 2010.

Avatar started construction in 14 and assumed completion in 17.

2011-2014 for the Second part of Harry Potter land to open up.

2010-2014 for Fantasy Lands upgrade at magic kingdom.

Kong Island from 13-16

To be honest the timelines seem almost similar. Plus Disney for the most part is working with timeless attractions and characters while Universal is working with a limited character audience. The timeless characters means that the change don't have to happen as often.

And maybe it's media coverage. Because thugs change a bit faster at Universal it could be that things are not released as early or found out about as they are over at Disney.

Star Wars land announced in 15 construction to begin in 16 and most likely finished in 18... Not really different that Harry Potter.

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The thing is Star Wars land and Avatar land aren't built yet. But both HP lands are, and Kong is about to open soon.

Since my last visit to WDW in 2000, WDW has added Mission: Space, Expedition Everest, Soarin, 7DMT (and new Fantasy Land) and a couple minor things (like Turtle Talk, Sum of All Thrills, Maelstrom converted to Frozen ride, new shows, etc.). They also made some negative changes like Stitch and Imagination. That's pretty much it for 16 years. Oh, and Magic Bands.

In that time, US opened Shrek 4D, replaced Kongfrontation with Mummy, opened RRR, Minion Mayhem and Transformers, are about to open Kong, and opened both HP areas with a major new attraction in each. Of course to be fair they closed some great attractions too like BTTF (replaced by Simpsons) and Jaws, but it seems like they did quite a bit more with their parks over that same time frame.

You might be right about the time frames being similar from ground breaking to completion, but the difference seems to be in the timing of the announcements. Avatar might have started construction in '14, but when was it announced? Like '11? Feels like it anyway. That's 6 years between announcement and opening, if they're on schedule. Also new Fantasy Land was announced in '09, so that was 5 years from announcement to completion. Just seems like a longer wait for things to get done at WDW compared to US.

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[fryoj]

 

 

Not to be that guy but yeah.... I wouldn't expect anything but the best from Universal and/or Disney. The parks are fighting for the same tourist dollars practically

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The difference is Disney takes their sweet time to get new lands and attractions up and running, while Universal seems to be on a whole different level of production while still producing at a level on par with Disney (in recent years anyway).

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I don't want to start an argument but this line always gets bounced around with little to no "facts" to back it up other than assumptions. Harry Potter IOA was announced and construction started in 07 and finished in 2010.

Avatar started construction in 14 and assumed completion in 17.

2011-2014 for the Second part of Harry Potter land to open up.

2010-2014 for Fantasy Lands upgrade at magic kingdom.

Kong Island from 13-16

To be honest the timelines seem almost similar. Plus Disney for the most part is working with timeless attractions and characters while Universal is working with a limited character audience. The timeless characters means that the change don't have to happen as often.

And maybe it's media coverage. Because thugs change a bit faster at Universal it could be that things are not released as early or found out about as they are over at Disney.

Star Wars land announced in 15 construction to begin in 16 and most likely finished in 18... Not really different that Harry Potter.

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Jaws closed in january 2102. Diagon Opened in 2014. so 2 1/2 years. 

 

Kong Started Construction early 2014, and will open soon, so just over 2 years. 

 

Transformers was pretty much right at a year. 

 

First part of Harry Potter was pre-Comcast.

 

Hell Volcano Bay is a whole new park and it may be done by the time Avatar opens. 

 

A lot of the problem is perception. Disney decides to build something, announces it, then starts building it a few years later.  Uni, starts building things then announces them about a year or less before they open. It makes a huge difference in perceived time. But even with that, Uni is spending the money to build this stuff quicker and is doing so. It's not really a similar time frame. A 40% difference is not similar. 

 

The Star Wars thing is a tricky one. I can't see any way possible it opens in 18 assuming we are talking DHS. Avatar is going to take them at least 3 years from shovels to open. DHS is not even close to shovel ready. They have to tear down half the park, reroute roads, parking, and all kinds of other stuff. If they have it open Holiday 2019, I think they'll be happy. 

[shark6495]

The perception is a big thing no doubt. As for the Magic Bands, that is no small feat and right or wrong have significantly altered (I think for he better) the guest experience in the park. During that time they also continue to work things in such as the light changing Mickey ears to match shows to continuing other infrastructure for the park systems.

Also WDW has 4 parks a bunch of hotels while Universal has 2 and a handful of hotels. The cost to maintain and build has to be allocated as well.

And the time frames I posted were from news articles I found on Google.

But let's be honest. Both parks are killing it and I was just sort of defending WDW because it felt like everyone was making it seem bad when we are really lucky to see both pros investing in their properties almost on a yearly basis

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[thegajone]

The perception is a big thing no doubt. As for the Magic Bands, that is no small feat and right or wrong have significantly altered (I think for he better) the guest experience in the park. During that time they also continue to work things in such as the light changing Mickey ears to match shows to continuing other infrastructure for the park systems.

Also WDW has 4 parks a bunch of hotels while Universal has 2 and a handful of hotels. The cost to maintain and build has to be allocated as well.

And the time frames I posted were from news articles I found on Google.

But let's be honest. Both parks are killing it and I was just sort of defending WDW because it felt like everyone was making it seem bad when we are really lucky to see both pros investing in their properties almost on a yearly basis

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I agree about the Magic Bands, but they're not drawing people into the park. And you're right that Disney has way more physical property to worry about than US, but again, that's not the main draw to the parks.

I love Disney as much as anyone, and enjoy it more than US. Don't get me wrong. But let's not ignore or skew the facts. We're talking about perception of park improvements in recent years. There's a reason it is what it is.

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[shark6495]

Ok let's look at facts. Disney has built its park brand around the idea that you have to visit at least once in your life. The parks are crowded and they are raising ticket prices to maybe try and fix that problem.

I really doubt that the Disney parks have a negative perception to the general public. And probably the park enthusiast crowd they couldnt care less about.

Heck last year the Peter Pan ride and the Small World rides had long waits and people getting into line to experience them.

Walt Disney has timeless brands. US lacks that long term iconic brand and thus have to reimagine their park more often as well. Name the last 3 things King Kong was in and then compare that to the Disney Peter Pan Whinnie the Pooh or Mickey Mouse.

The fact that these characters keep showing up makes it that the rides don't have to change that drastically

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[thegajone]

Ok let's look at facts. Disney has built its park brand around the idea that you have to visit at least once in your life. The parks are crowded and they are raising ticket prices to maybe try and fix that problem.

I really doubt that the Disney parks have a negative perception to the general public. And probably the park enthusiast crowd they couldnt care less about.

Heck last year the Peter Pan ride and the Small World rides had long waits and people getting into line to experience them.

Walt Disney has timeless brands. US lacks that long term iconic brand and thus have to reimagine their park more often as well. Name the last 3 things King Kong was in and then compare that to the Disney Peter Pan Whinnie the Pooh or Mickey Mouse.

The fact that these characters keep showing up makes it that the rides don't have to change that drastically

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I understand all that. This entire discussion is based around the fact that you challenged my statement that Disney has taken longer to build new attractions and themed lands in their parks than US is recent years. You've since tried to disprove that with incomplete and inaccurate data.

Avatar land was announced 5 years ago and won't be ready until next year. New Fantasy Land was completed 5 years after being announced. Universal's major projects are completed in half that time from the time they are announced, yet still produce at a quality that is on par with Disney. Hence my original comment in this thread. And nothing in this post I quoted has relevancy to that discussion. You're going full on straw-man here. If you're trying to argue that Disney doesn't need to change as frequently or drastically, that's fine and I agree. But don't act like Disney takes the same amount of time to produce their new major overhauls in the parks when it simply isn't true.

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[purdude86]

I think you also have to look at what they are building too. Yes Universal for the most part is building and opening things faster, but most of their rent additions has been screen based and not relied much on physical sets or animatronics. So yea Transformers was built in a year but it's really just a building with screens in it, shouldn't take much and there's no real theming around it. I would also say that Fantasyland and likely Avatar are bigger areas than any of the new additions in WDW as well, with the exception of Diagon Alley maybe but again it's mostly just building and a couple projector based rides. Fantasyland was three rides two of which use animatronics andAvatar remains to be seen what the boat ride entails but the environment, with its bioluminescence, will be harder to put up than some brick and mortar.

On top of these as Stated Disney has been building and enhancing hotels, park experience, adding new shows, etc. yes public perception is focused mostly on rides but Disney really has a resort wide experience feel. There's still always someone new there too.

Again not trying to knock either as I love both resorts but need to look at all the facts and not just number of attractions or timeline without taking into account everything going into it.

[CoasterGeek101]

Did you say Diagon Alley was just "building and a couple projector based rides?" 

 

I think over 10 million people might disagree with you on that. 

[shark6495]

Ok let's look at facts. Disney has built its park brand around the idea that you have to visit at least once in your life. The parks are crowded and they are raising ticket prices to maybe try and fix that problem.

I really doubt that the Disney parks have a negative perception to the general public. And probably the park enthusiast crowd they couldnt care less about.

Heck last year the Peter Pan ride and the Small World rides had long waits and people getting into line to experience them.

Walt Disney has timeless brands. US lacks that long term iconic brand and thus have to reimagine their park more often as well. Name the last 3 things King Kong was in and then compare that to the Disney Peter Pan Whinnie the Pooh or Mickey Mouse.

The fact that these characters keep showing up makes it that the rides don't have to change that drastically

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I understand all that. This entire discussion is based around the fact that you challenged my statement that Disney has taken longer to build new attractions and themed lands in their parks than US is recent years. You've since tried to disprove that with incomplete and inaccurate data.

Avatar land was announced 5 years ago and won't be ready until next year. New Fantasy Land was completed 5 years after being announced. Universal's major projects are completed in half that time from the time they are announced, yet still produce at a quality that is on par with Disney. Hence my original comment in this thread. And nothing in this post I quoted has relevancy to that discussion. You're going full on straw-man here. If you're trying to argue that Disney doesn't need to change as frequently or drastically, that's fine and I agree. But don't act like Disney takes the same amount of time to produce their new major overhauls in the parks when it simply isn't true.

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I was trying to bring it all full circle and end in amicably. And also point out that while Universal was upgrading or adding a ride here or there, Disney was upgrading other things. They may not bring people to the park but it makes things slightly more enjoyable.

But if you would like some facts about major park expansions. Here we go again.

I don't care when something is announced I'm talking about from breaking ground etc.

Avatar broke ground on Jan 10, 2014 and is expected to finish in 2017. 3-3.5 years

Harry Potter broke ground mid 2007, finished June 18, 2010, 3 years.

The second Harry Potter broke ground early to mid 2011, and finished July 8, 2014. 3 years

Disney Fantasy Land: started 2011 and finished Nov 2014, 3.5 years. While not officially a rebuild and areas were opened up in stages.

Who cares when it's announced. Just because it gets announced or confirmed doesn't mean a thing.

I even agreed with you that it's all perception. That it seems to take longer because Disney announced things earlier. But that's hardly Disneys fault if anything they are giving people time to get "last rides".

Kong Skull Island a smaller not as involved redo as compared to HP but from what I have seen online ground breaking started around Jan/Feb 2014 and will open mid 2016 so almost 2.5 years.

Star Wars is broke ground this year and is expected to open 2018, 3 years.

I'm not trying to compare single rides because the Redo of Hulk or Spidey or Transformers is no different than Disney doing the Snow White or KI building Banshee.

From broken ground to completion the time lines are almost identical. Disney as a company has historically announced projects early in the design. From the parks to movies to anything. Disney almost enjoys taking the audience on a ride through development. It's almost like they are making money on it.

Universal recently has not done it the same way. They make the announcement and then break ground.

If I were to take a guess I would think the planning is about the same. So when Disney announces something and then breaks ground 2 years later they probably when through the same process as US.

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[shark6495]

But I will give you that from announcement to finish US does beat Disney.

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[purdude86]

Did you say Diagon Alley was just "building and a couple projector based rides?" 

 

I think over 10 million people might disagree with you on that. 

Not saying it isn't a HQ product and I loved the area. Went down last winter for the sole reason to see it. But while it is well themed and probably the biggest competition Disney has had for theming and design Universal has ever done, really both Harry Potter areas, the land is still a few shops, a train, and a dark ride/coaster with lots of screens.

[MrBestDayEver]

As much as I love Disney World; I've learned something about the theme park industry. And that is when it comes to Universal and Disney their is unquestionably a double standard. If Disney were to add the exact same rides Universal has added since 2010 they would be praised for their engunity and theming. They'd be the star attractions at Walt Disney World. But because it's Universal and not Disney they are critized for doing to many 3D based attractions. Why? Quite simply because Universal isn't Disney.

Now don't get me wrong. I enjoy Disney World, and I adore Disneyland. But until their is a major change of heart at Disney World I'll be spending my money at Disneyland and the park chain that's redefining the industry: Universal Studios.

And for the people who say Diagon Alley is just a few shops and a screen based attractions or that Universal doesn't have any timeless brands. Tell that to the people who were moved to tears by Diagon Alley.

[thegajone]

Ok let's look at facts. Disney has built its park brand around the idea that you have to visit at least once in your life. The parks are crowded and they are raising ticket prices to maybe try and fix that problem.

I really doubt that the Disney parks have a negative perception to the general public. And probably the park enthusiast crowd they couldnt care less about.

Heck last year the Peter Pan ride and the Small World rides had long waits and people getting into line to experience them.

Walt Disney has timeless brands. US lacks that long term iconic brand and thus have to reimagine their park more often as well. Name the last 3 things King Kong was in and then compare that to the Disney Peter Pan Whinnie the Pooh or Mickey Mouse.

The fact that these characters keep showing up makes it that the rides don't have to change that drastically

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I understand all that. This entire discussion is based around the fact that you challenged my statement that Disney has taken longer to build new attractions and themed lands in their parks than US is recent years. You've since tried to disprove that with incomplete and inaccurate data.

Avatar land was announced 5 years ago and won't be ready until next year. New Fantasy Land was completed 5 years after being announced. Universal's major projects are completed in half that time from the time they are announced, yet still produce at a quality that is on par with Disney. Hence my original comment in this thread. And nothing in this post I quoted has relevancy to that discussion. You're going full on straw-man here. If you're trying to argue that Disney doesn't need to change as frequently or drastically, that's fine and I agree. But don't act like Disney takes the same amount of time to produce their new major overhauls in the parks when it simply isn't true.

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I was trying to bring it all full circle and end in amicably. And also point out that while Universal was upgrading or adding a ride here or there, Disney was upgrading other things. They may not bring people to the park but it makes things slightly more enjoyable.

But if you would like some facts about major park expansions. Here we go again.

I don't care when something is announced I'm talking about from breaking ground etc.

Avatar broke ground on Jan 10, 2014 and is expected to finish in 2017. 3-3.5 years

Harry Potter broke ground mid 2007, finished June 18, 2010, 3 years.

The second Harry Potter broke ground early to mid 2011, and finished July 8, 2014. 3 years

Disney Fantasy Land: started 2011 and finished Nov 2014, 3.5 years. While not officially a rebuild and areas were opened up in stages.

Who cares when it's announced. Just because it gets announced or confirmed doesn't mean a thing.

I even agreed with you that it's all perception. That it seems to take longer because Disney announced things earlier. But that's hardly Disneys fault if anything they are giving people time to get "last rides".

Kong Skull Island a smaller not as involved redo as compared to HP but from what I have seen online ground breaking started around Jan/Feb 2014 and will open mid 2016 so almost 2.5 years.

Star Wars is broke ground this year and is expected to open 2018, 3 years.

I'm not trying to compare single rides because the Redo of Hulk or Spidey or Transformers is no different than Disney doing the Snow White or KI building Banshee.

From broken ground to completion the time lines are almost identical. Disney as a company has historically announced projects early in the design. From the parks to movies to anything. Disney almost enjoys taking the audience on a ride through development. It's almost like they are making money on it.

Universal recently has not done it the same way. They make the announcement and then break ground.

If I were to take a guess I would think the planning is about the same. So when Disney announces something and then breaks ground 2 years later they probably when through the same process as US.

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Once again all your points are valid, but I think timing of announcements is a huge factor. We've literally been waiting for Avatar for almost 5 years now, regardless of when ground broke, and it won't be finished until next year.

And didn't a team of Imagineers visit Diagon Alley and then return to home base and request a higher budget? That's the rumor anyway. If that's the case then I think we can expect delays with that project. We'll see.

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[shark6495]

If that's the case and they take longer to BUILD it then congrats you were right. You said it takes longer to BUILD not see plans implemented.

And also to the above poster I agree Forbidden Journey is a great ride that's more than just screens

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[thegajone]

If that's the case and they take longer to BUILD it then congrats you were right. You said it takes longer to BUILD not see plans implemented.

And also to the above poster I agree Forbidden Journey is a great ride that's more than just screens

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Eh you're getting pretty semantic-y on me here.

Perception is everything. If I say "A is going to be constructed, and B is going to be constructed", and A is opened in 5 years while B is opened in 3, you're going to say "wow, A took a lot longer than B". That's how it works man. And that's exactly what the perception is with WDW vs. Universal. You even said so yourself. Whether you think the criticism is valid or not doesn't matter. The perception is what it is for a reason.

And for the record, I did not say it takes longer to BUILD.

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[shark6495]

Gajone I feel that you and I are engaged in a good ol fashioned spitting into the wind contest. Where we both agree (perception makes it look like US turns things around quicker) while we disagree about the time frames.

I offer this to you since we both probably won't change our opinions on here that if the time ever happens at a KIC event we can finish this convo over good ol adult brew ....

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[thegajone]

I'm enjoying our conversation and not taking anything personally. You've been very respectful and I haven't disagreed with most of what you've said. I think we're just arguing different points at this point so you're right, it's going nowhere!

I'm also excited about my upcoming Orlando trip which has caused me to jump into any and every discussion involving the 2 parks that I can find on the Internet!

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[shark6495]

Hands down if you are going to IOA get reservations for Mythos. Great little restaurant tucked inside the park. My wife and I made reservations 6 months out(ish?) and when we showed up they told us it would be 10-15 mins. The couple in front of us got the little vibration thing and a 4 hour window....

Anywhos.... Any new pics anywhere of he Hulk ride?

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[MrBestDayEver]

Man I wish I lived in Orlando... The best parks anywhere all within 15 minutes of each other.

 

Anyways I took some photos of Hulk on Monday and Tuesday. While the layout is exactly the same their have been a few design changes. Mostly in the supports. Right now it's looking like track placement is taking place mostly at night; probably because everything is now very close to guest areas. And it is coming together very quickly. You'll see what I mean in a minute. 

 

Monday: 

 

 

 

Tuesday: 

 

 

 

Someone has informed me that as of today the final brake run is covered with plastic... I wonder if they are installing the brakes. 

 

And of course all photos were taken from guest areas. 

 

...silly me 

[tubaman]

 

Someone has informed me that as of today the final break run is covered with plastic... I wonder if they are installing the breaks. 

 

 

Yikes!  I hope not!   

I'm joking, of course.  Great pictures and thank you for sharing! 

[NoChickens]

 I usually brake for breaks. ;-)

[thegajone]

Hands down if you are going to IOA get reservations for Mythos. Great little restaurant tucked inside the park. My wife and I made reservations 6 months out(ish?) and when we showed up they told us it would be 10-15 mins. The couple in front of us got the little vibration thing and a 4 hour window....

Anywhos.... Any new pics anywhere of he Hulk ride?

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I saw that it has been named "best value restaurant in an amusement park" for like....a lot of years lol. I missed it when I went in January but I might go there this time around depending on our schedule.

I'll snap some pics of Hulk and Kong while I'm down there.

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[purdude86]

Have always meant to go to it and just never got around. Making a trip down to Universal this fall so might try to set up reservations there this time.

[MrBestDayEver]

Have always meant to go to it and just never got around. Making a trip down to Universal this fall so might try to set up reservations there this time.

 

If your going in late September/ October make sure to attend Halloween Horror Nights. It's quite simply the best. 

 

Also a few pictures I have of Kong: 

 

 

 

 

Kong is basically finished; just tying up a few loose ends at this point. If you are not a fan of all the 3D attractions at Universal don't worry. While it will have 3D it will also have a lot more practical sets and effects than Universals recent E-Tickets. If this ride isn't your number 1 most anticipated ride of 2016 it should be. Mr. Woodbury and Mr. West have packed several surprises inside no one will see coming. In fact I do dare say that it might just be the scariest ride ever built...