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Seat belts added to other Cedar Fair B&M coasters.


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I don't think it is just Cedar Fair's second generation B&M Hyper Coasters. I believe Steel Dragon's new B&M trains arrived with seatbelts already installed. They also have shin bars as well. SD2000 B&M trains are basically the same, except they are not V style.

Here are Steel Dragon's restraints:

new-steel-dragon4.jpg

If you look closely, they are nearly identical to Diamondback's.

Gonna do some digging to see if Shambhala has received or will be receiving seat belts.

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^^Totally agreed....Fastlane at Disney is just as bad in many ways. There is nothing worse than waiting for two hours to be cut off at the entrance to wait for two people to walk up a quarter mile ramp to cut in front...and then waiting again for two more people to walk up the same ramp to board in front of you....and then ten out of your queue board.

The fairest method is Qbot....again, you schedule a ride, it judges a return time, and you either wait until your boarding time and after or you cancel and reschedule a ride. Either way only a few go in at a time and merge with the groups practically unnoticed.

If you are scheduled to return in an hour, go eat, shop or ride another ride from the lower class line. Either way you get two rides in within an hour rather than just one ride.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate with your statement about the Disney Fastpass. How exactly is it unfair? It is available to everyone, for no extra upcharge and allows guests the ability to ride a few selected attractions with little to no wait. Under the old system, there was a benefit to getting to the park at or near opening, because the paper FP for the WHOLE DAY would all be distributed for rides like Soarin, Test Track, and Toy Story Midway within a few hours of park opening. If you got there at lunchtime or beyond, you were stuck waiting in lines of at least 50-60 minutes on slow days and more like 90-120 mins on busy ones.

Now, the new system does reward advance planning (as well as those staying on property), but with the modifications recently put into place (i.e. get as many FPs as you want (one at a time, if time allows) after the 3rd advance one has been used), I think the system is trying to be fair to everyone. Once the ability to park hop (i.e. schedule FP+ attractions btwn parks) is allowed, I think the system will work as advertised.

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I still don't think Kings Island manages Fast Lane correctly. It's done much different at Cedar Point and I'm not sure why that is? I mean it should be an even amount of Fast Lane versus the normal line.

I talked to several Cedar Point attendants at the Fast Lane merge last year and they all said that they were instructed to do a 50/50 split. That high split percentage is the reason I didn't ride Maverick at all last year, because I saw the Fast Lane line out to the ride entrance on multiple occasions and figured it would be at least a 90 minute to 2 hour wait when it was 45-60 minutes pre-Fast Lane. Multiple trip reports verified the longer wait times for standby folks, which is why you will see Maverick on the Fast Lane Plus this year. In fairness, Cedar Point has - by far - the most Fast Lane users so a lot of Fast Lane issues are unique to Cedar Point. Having said that...

I cautioned years ago that a high split percentage geared towards Fast Lane users would become problematic on days with high Fast Lane usage (which is pretty much every day at Cedar Point now). Canada's Wonderland allowed 8-10 people on Behemoth and Leviathan at a time, which is 25%-30% of available seats. That's much more reasonable than the 50/50 splits (or higher) that have been reported at various times so far this year at the more popular rides at Kings Island. Standby wait times on the most popular coasters at KI and Cedar Point have noticeably increased since Fast Lane was implemented. This is not a surprise since most Fast Lane users are much more inclined to ride the most popular coasters to get maximum benefit.

I still think the solution is pretty simple - raise the price on days that are expected to be busier. This particularly applies at Cedar Point where I still believe the Fast Lane price is too low. Remember the days when you could get a Fast Lane bracelet at Cedar Point for $30 a piece?! An abundance of Fast Lane users in a given day means you're either overselling them or you're not pricing them high enough. I truly believe that on days that are historically busy (and Kings Island has more than 40 years of data to work with on this) you need to raise the prices enough where Fast Lane users still feel like they're getting benefit AND where standby lines aren't moving at a snails pace.

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^^Totally agreed....Fastlane at Disney is just as bad in many ways. There is nothing worse than waiting for two hours to be cut off at the entrance to wait for two people to walk up a quarter mile ramp to cut in front...and then waiting again for two more people to walk up the same ramp to board in front of you....and then ten out of your queue board.

The fairest method is Qbot....again, you schedule a ride, it judges a return time, and you either wait until your boarding time and after or you cancel and reschedule a ride. Either way only a few go in at a time and merge with the groups practically unnoticed.

If you are scheduled to return in an hour, go eat, shop or ride another ride from the lower class line. Either way you get two rides in within an hour rather than just one ride.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate with your statement about the Disney Fastpass. How exactly is it unfair? It is available to everyone, for no extra upcharge and allows guests the ability to ride a few selected attractions with little to no wait. Under the old system, there was a benefit to getting to the park at or near opening, because the paper FP for the WHOLE DAY would all be distributed for rides like Soarin, Test Track, and Toy Story Midway within a few hours of park opening. If you got there at lunchtime or beyond, you were stuck waiting in lines of at least 50-60 minutes on slow days and more like 90-120 mins on busy ones.

Now, the new system does reward advance planning (as well as those staying on property), but with the modifications recently put into place (i.e. get as many FPs as you want (one at a time, if time allows) after the 3rd advance one has been used), I think the system is trying to be fair to everyone. Once the ability to park hop (i.e. schedule FP+ attractions btwn parks) is allowed, I think the system will work as advertised.

Actually everyone coming through the gates at Disney World pays for the cost of Fastpass upfront, whether they use the process or not, causing higher admission costs for the parks that are about 20% higher than other theme parks. What I object to is even if the Fastpass line is empty, the crew still holds the standby line for a time frame. At least that is my past experience. I'm not sure what their process is, and I haven't been there in a while, but it appears that they observe a monitor and wait for it to give them a time to release the standby queue. This causes the standby line to stop moving. I'll wait for hours to ride a ride if the line continues to move. The long periods of nothingness are annoying. Would you enlighten me on the Fastpass process (unless it's a trade secret then don't). :)

My statement about Qbot does appear to cast a doubt about fairness on Fastpass, but I was really aiming it towards fairness of pay-for-service options and not Fastpass. Sorry for the confusion.

So rewording it to "the fairest pay-for-service".

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It wasn't this bad in 2012 or 2013 from what I could tell. Opening day was a new low for Fast Line exploitations. I think we should give Kings Island and Cedar Fair till about mid summer to get this problem under control. If not I would suggest that maybe one row a train be used for Fast Lane. Not one specific row, but just allow 2-4 people a train for Fast Lane. That wouldn't hold up the actual line and it would allow Fast Lane to have a fair ratio.

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^^Totally agreed....Fastlane at Disney is just as bad in many ways. There is nothing worse than waiting for two hours to be cut off at the entrance to wait for two people to walk up a quarter mile ramp to cut in front...and then waiting again for two more people to walk up the same ramp to board in front of you....and then ten out of your queue board.

The fairest method is Qbot....again, you schedule a ride, it judges a return time, and you either wait until your boarding time and after or you cancel and reschedule a ride. Either way only a few go in at a time and merge with the groups practically unnoticed.

If you are scheduled to return in an hour, go eat, shop or ride another ride from the lower class line. Either way you get two rides in within an hour rather than just one ride.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate with your statement about the Disney Fastpass. How exactly is it unfair? It is available to everyone, for no extra upcharge and allows guests the ability to ride a few selected attractions with little to no wait. Under the old system, there was a benefit to getting to the park at or near opening, because the paper FP for the WHOLE DAY would all be distributed for rides like Soarin, Test Track, and Toy Story Midway within a few hours of park opening. If you got there at lunchtime or beyond, you were stuck waiting in lines of at least 50-60 minutes on slow days and more like 90-120 mins on busy ones.

Now, the new system does reward advance planning (as well as those staying on property), but with the modifications recently put into place (i.e. get as many FPs as you want (one at a time, if time allows) after the 3rd advance one has been used), I think the system is trying to be fair to everyone. Once the ability to park hop (i.e. schedule FP+ attractions btwn parks) is allowed, I think the system will work as advertised.

Actually everyone coming through the gates at Disney World pays for the cost of Fastpass upfront, whether they use the process or not, causing higher admission costs for the parks that are about 20% higher than other theme parks. What I object to is even if the Fastpass line is empty, the crew still holds the standby line for a time frame. At least that is my past experience. I'm not sure what their process is, and I haven't been there in a while, but it appears that they observe a monitor and wait for it to give them a time to release the standby queue. This causes the standby line to stop moving. I'll wait for hours to ride a ride if the line continues to move. The long periods of nothingness are annoying. Would you enlighten me on the Fastpass process (unless it's a trade secret then don't). :)

My statement about Qbot does appear to cast a doubt about fairness on Fastpass, but I was really aiming it towards fairness of pay-for-service options and not Fastpass. Sorry for the confusion.

So rewording it to "the fairest pay-for-service".

I am going late next week to try the new system, so I will be better able to explain how it works at that point, but on my multiple visits under the old system, if the FP line was empty at a given time, the standby line was always allowed through. No CM ever held up the line. The biggest abuse under the old system was that a FP could be used anytime after the first time on the return window. So, a return time of say 2-2:20 wouldn't mean anything because you could waltz right up at say 9:30 PM, show them your FP and be allowed on. The new system disallows this practice (unless the ride is down or there are extenuating circumstances). CM have been instructed to allow a 15 min grace period after the return window has closed, but no more. Plan accordingly.

While adding FP + is a large capital expense, Disney did extensive research into all line shifting methods, including a Q bot system, before going this route. Yes, the cost is built in, but the park is heavily advertising the new system in the hopes that more people take advantage. Having several kiosks throughout each park to make reservations will help as well.

I don't see this system migrating west anytime soon (Terpy will be happy), since DL relies a lot on AP holders who live in the immediate area. If you live in Central or SoCal, DL is an easy day trip (I have friends in San Diego who have AP and they take about 10-12 day trips a year). In Florida, doing a day trip to WDW is really quite daunting, given its immense size. If you live in Orlando or surrounding areas, yes, it's an easy trip, but otherwise you pretty much have to spend a night or two.

For those families coming for a week, having the ability to ride sev big (or small) attractions without fighting to get there at rope drop is appealling. Parks like SIX and FUN have wisely seen the $ to be ,made off of preferred line placement, so they designed their own systems. With the cost of visiting WDW fairly high, Disney could in no way charge 'extra' fpr their FP+ system (esp since it was always 'free'). Keep in mind that Disney doesn't discount much (unless you're in the military) and FUN and SIX often have deals that allow you cheaper admission tot he park than the gate price, so they look to recoup that revenue in other ways.

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And Q-Bots can be programmed for parks in various ways. The Flash Pass, at Six Flags, is sold in a variety of tiers. For a veritable king's ransom, the highest level Q-Bot at Great Adventure, for example, offers near immediate ride access.

In my opinion, Fast Lane and Fast Lane

Plus are priced waaaay too cheap. The same can be said of season passes at both Six Flags and Cedar Fair. In the early days at Kings Island, the crowds were larger, there were fewer rides, yet most lines were waaaay shorter. Why? Fewer professional (frequent) visitors\riders (there were NO season passes), far more other things--exceptionally high quality shows--for just one, a wider demographic with far more non-riders--older adults, grandparents, etc.

The park has become ride-centric, and shouldn't be surprised the demographic it attracts is more interested in and able to do riding as opposed to spending.

Before Kings Island, rides were typically priced by the ride. Fast Lane and the like is a way to bring back--pay more, ride more.

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They raised the Flash Pass price this year too. It used to be you got a price break when you added more than 1 person to each Q-Bot. Now, for Platinum Flash Pass at Great Adventure it is $110 per person. It used to start at $120 per person and drop to around $85 per person if you had 6 people on the Q-Bot.

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Come on, there t shirts for crying out loud, fast pass is what it is, they paid the extra to get in front of the lines and you didn't if you have a problem with that maybe you should buy fast pass too.

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