DispatchMaster

So, the short answer is "no, I can't provide evidence to support the claim". You claiming they have said as much isn't the same as showing examples of them saying this, and further, why would a person whose job it is to justify their job's value say anything that contradicts the argument that their job is valuable? It's like asking a police officer if their writing parking tickets has a positive effect on community safety and taking their word for it without asking for evidence to back up a self-serving claim. So, again, where is some evidence to support the idea that out-of-market advertising has a substantial impact on revenue? Someone else mentioned Banshee as an example of a "PR campaign that have had a huge impact", except CF attendance was down during Banshee's debut season... Can you understand why I'm skeptical of this claim?

Yes, the Marketing team at KI knows.

Can you share an example? By what metric have these campaigns "had a huge impact"? Not trying to be argumentative, but these claims seem wildly vague. What was the long term attendance and revenue boost KI enjoyed based on the campaign for Banshee, for example? CF is a public company, and their financials are therefore available. I know they don't always point to individual parks' results in quarterly and annual reports, but when there are exceptions - like gains due to a specific investment - they often do. Are there reports where they mention any modern (post-CF) era attraction's bottom line impact specifically from out-of-region visitors at KI? Because that's the claim that's being made - that the park isn't doing a good enough job reaching these so-called lucrative distant guests. If it is such common knowledge that this claim is true, where is the supporting evidence?

Do you have anything to support that claim? Because as far as I'm aware, via interviews, memoirs, etc., revenue for regional parks is almost entirely from the local region, with anything outside of that being a rounding error at best.

How much revenue will Holiday World realize as a result of a few minutes of banter on CBS Orlando?

LOLOLOLOLOL Yes, season passes offer a package, which guarantees park access through the season with the addition of numerous value-add benefits which are clearly stated as subject to change without notice. The base product - park admission - is not subject to change. So when you go through with the purchase, you are agreeing to all the terms, including acknowledging that the benefits are subject to change or revocation. Again, you are presented with these terms prior to purchase, so once you agree to those terms you also agree that those benefits may change or outright disappear. The only way the asinine TV example makes any sense would be if the box stated those items may be included. Because, again, the park doesn't state that value-added pass benefits are guaranteed to be available. The TOS clearly state they are subject to change at the park's whim. Just like Early Entry. Just like park hours. Just like the availability of your favorite ride. Just like the availability of your favorite funnel cake or whatever. If you do not like the terms of an agreement, why on Earth would you agree to those terms? It's not like anyone tricked you. Worst case, you were too lazy to read the terms of the agreement, but if so, that's on you. Buyer beware. And if you expect businesses to behave differently then I have a bridge to sell you. Yes, that's true. And it happened to us over a couple years, so we did what normal, reasonable folks do in response - stop agreeing to purchase a product that we no longer felt was of sufficient value. Continuing to fork over our hard-earned cash to a company that was no longer delivering what we felt was sufficient value would be flat out stupid. I guess at the end of the day I don't understand why people feel they're owed anything by any company. Every company exists to create profit by generating revenue in excess of their operating costs. Every for-profit company. If a company increases prices to the point that a customer no longer finds value, the customer should stop engaging with the company. Continuing to fork over money while simultaneously complaining about it in "social media posts" is an impotent way to affect change. Vote with your wallet.

You are taking this whole enthusiast hobby way too seriously if you think there's some conspiracy going on when someone disagrees with and argues against your incessant whining. The reality is that you complain an awful lot for someone who will, no doubt, continue forking over your money while continuing to complain. I no longer found value in what the park offered via their pass, so I stopped purchasing it. No whining incessantly on the internet, just spoke in the only way that matters - with my wallet. Hard to take seriously those that "speak" only on the Internet. Good for them, that's how you affect change. But I still don't for one second buy the story that they approached the park in a reasonable manner and requested recompense for their situation, because that has never been my personal or anecdotal experience in my many, many years attending CF parks. But maybe Guest Services sucks now, in which case good for your friends for voting with their wallets. The digital transition began in 1996, wasn't completed until 2009, and all new TVs purchased after 2007 included ATSC tuners. I'm curious, what mountable flat screen TV did you purchase in ~2005-2006 that didn't include an ATSC tuner? And if you could afford one of these rare, super-high-end TVs, how were you savvy enough to justify spending ~$3K on one instead of waiting a year or so for native ATSC sets? No, again, I'm someone who isn't foolish enough to pay someone for a product I don't feel is worth it. Take notes.

How has that materially affected the value you realized from your pass? In other words, were you only available on the changed dates at those later hours, and the pass was therefore of insufficient value for the remaining 99.9% of the parks operating dates? If so, go see guest services, point out that because of your schedule you were unable to visit, and given the extraordinary circumstance that only allow you to visit on Tuesdays in early May after 8PM, they would refund your unused pass. Well both of these totally real and not fabricated for this argument people should go talk to Guest Services, where they can explain their predicament and be made whole. Because that's what Guest Services does and has always done. First of all, I was referring to the pass benefits, not purchased add-ons. But fine. Yes, all FL/FLP wrist bands for any given day are subject to availability, and that is stated prior to purchase. Obviously they cannot predict attendance, and therefore cannot predict day-of FL/FLP purchases, so by the time you roll up to the park at 8:30PM on a Tuesday and they've sold out of FL/FLP, you will not be able to use that. Just like if the park were at capacity and you tried to stroll in with a pass, they're not going to let you in. But that never happens, so you're arguing outlandish hypotheticals which is a losing strategy. You cannot be serious with this. My original response in this thread was not about purchased add-ons, but with respect to people complaining about so-called "bait and switch" with the pass benefits, as the chronic complainer was doing with regard to whether or not "merchandise" was included in the discount benefit. In these cases the product (unlimited access to the park(s)) was delivered, and therefore the value proposition was met.

Nonsense. The product you purchased was a season pass that provided access to the park(s). The product you purchased also included additional value-add benefits which were always subject to change without notice. So yes, the number of visits, while inconvenient to your endless whining about "bait and switch", is very much a relevant point of data. But of course you won't answer it, because that would demonstrate that you're still enjoying substantial actual value of the product you purchased. Your TV metaphor is DOA. It would be more like purchasing a 4K TV that also advertised smart TV functions from the manufacturer, with the express stated condition that those functions may be altered or disabled at any time. The TV would still function as a 4K TV, but if those extra features were critical to me finding value in the purchase, I would have been a fool to have agreed to the purchase in the first place.

The August 1st cache of the SP page, the first day the new passes were available, shows "& merchandise" as being included with both Gold and Prestige. Out of curiosity, what are the changes they made after the initial announcement of '23 (or prior years) season passes? How many visits to you make a year? Because if the answer to this last question is >=5, then you got your money's worth on your season pass based solely on the admission (and parking) value you realized compared to the gate price.

Do you honestly not understand that you are posting screenshots from their blog and not the actual season pass page? Yes, they failed to correctly update the blog, which is unfortunate. But the page where you go to actually purchase season passes, the same one linked to from the blog, lists the correct benefit of including a discount on merchandise. Their blog was reposted and updated with "2024" replacing "2023" and someone neglected to update the benefits list, which is inconsequential since when you go to the actual SP page, the benefits are listed correctly for all to see. I get that you are intent on critiquing CF at every imaginable opportunity, and there are cases where it's justified, but this is a ridiculous stretch.

Everyone criticizing perceived "moves" by CF parks (short staffing, etc.) should read this closely. They read it again. And for good measure read it a third time, because it's correct - the entire industry is having a down year. The 9PM closing of certain rides at CP or firing Don from KI didn't negatively affect attendance in Orlando, so it stands to reason those issues aren't driving down attendance at the Cedar Fair parks that actually have higher attendance through July this year compared to last. The complaints around here sure are many, but they are rarely rooted in reality.

It's always listed "15% Food & Merchandise" discounts on the actual season pass page as far as I can recall, and your previous post showing screenshots from the blog doesn't contradict that.

No they didn't. You were referencing a blog post from a year ago rather than their season pass page.

Yes, for 2024, which can be easily found on the season pass page.

Who cares? That has absolutely nothing to do with the current earnings report and the present day economy. When the time comes to deal with the note the prime rate will be relevant. Seems like you're bringing it up to continue your "doom and gloom" narrative given that the Q2 report wasn't sufficiently "doomy and gloomy" for you.

And not by a trivial amount, either. Up a significant 7%. But that must be a misprint, because I have it on good authority that attendance is down because they fired Don and someone experienced short lines during their visits to the park.

At first glance, increased net revenue, coming by way of higher per caps from fewer guests is a pretty solid result all things considered.

So Cedar Fair should pour money into the industry-wide problem of cooling demand that followed the pandemic? Oh, come on. If Disney and Universal's marketing can't get folks through their turnstiles, no amount of ad spend or anything else is going to get folks through CF's turnstiles, and it would be financial malpractice to try and spend their way out of an industry-wide problem. Life isn't RCT, where you can magically goose attendance with an ad campaign.

No, they're both wrong (though I think Gordon was making a joke). Also, whether or not Ride A has a long wait does not indicate whether or not that ride is more popular than rides that have shorter or nonexistent waits. There are many factors at play, not the least of which is capacity.

Are you familiar with the concept of anecdotal evidence and why it is comically absurd to draw conclusions based on it? Also maybe familiarize yourself with confirmation bias.

Maybe they'll include parking at the existing GP price point, in which case you would save $55, which fits the description of "up to $65". Or maybe they'll have a sale this fall with the GP available for $125, in which cased you'd save $65, which fits the description of "up to $65". I don't know and I don't care. My point was only that you're calling them liars based on incomplete information.

You're using CW's 2023 Gold Pass pricing and benefits to make an assumption about their 2024 Gold Pass pricing and benefits in order to show the company is lying?

Agreed that it's chaotic and unstable. But confusing? Certainly not.

Do you honestly think FB comments are some indicator of... well, anything? FB is a cesspool of stupid people, often asking questions that can be answered via LMGTFY-level sleuthing. All this to say, FB comments are worse than meaningless. FB is not real life. See? You've easily found the answer to all of the questions with this post and the one that followed. There was nothing confusing about any of this considering you found answers within an hour or so of the change going live.