bkroz

Does Cedar Fair also consider California's Great America's Tiki Twirl (formerly Survivor: The Ride) a roller coaster? And honestly, why shouldn't it be? Who invented the precise definition of a roller coaster? And does it even matter if it's one? Does it change anything? GYK, a student of science who saw every text book in America pulled and re-printed when someone somewhere decided that Pluto no longer fit some definition that some seemingly anonymous group has decided on to classify a "planet"... Only to have that same group of someones change their mind just over a year later*. * And invent a new designation, 'dwarf planet.' Poor Pluto didn't change a bit through the whole process. But the semantics of something so inconsequential brought about a lot more debate, financial expenditure, and confusion than were ever required! Would anyone here have more fun on Surf Dog if they knew that some roller coaster community agreed on it's official status as a roller coaster?

But Kings Island in February? Brrr. And why? Ignoring the temperature limitations on many roller coasters operation and the essential maintenance that occurs during the offseason, there simply wouldn't be attendance to support payroll. Even Carowinds has a similar schedule, and it's much farther south. Even parks like Busch Gardens and Kings Dominion (which usually have relatively temperate weathers with very very little snowfall) don't bother to remain open year-round. Even with Busch Garden's new Christmas event, there's still dead-time in November, and from January to March. Just a thought - it seems that overseas parks who simply contract out movie studios properties do quite well. See, for example, Tokyo Disneyland and DisneySea. From my understanding, the resort is not owned by the Walt Disney Company. Instead, both are owned by the Oriental Land Company, who simply pays (probably ridiculous amounts) to The Walt Disney Company to use their names, likenesses, properties, characters, etc. in a large liscencing fee, and in return, Disney leases out their Imagineers to design for the parks. The year that that resort got DisneySea (arguably one of the most beautiful and well-themed parks on Earth), one of the state-side, company-owned resorts got a park that's currently undergoing a $1.2 billion re-build since it wasn't done right the first time... Perhaps having other companies finance the park is the way to go. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think of it like a franchised restaurant. Pay upfront to use the name, abide by all of the rules of the parent, and try to make your individual franchise as successful as possible with the help (and also, limitations) imposed by the parent. Am I on the right track?

I'm on the bandwagon that an up-charge is a necessity here. It is all but required in order to keep people respectful of the property that they will be in such close contact with. But in that same regard, this upcharge is not a do-or-die for the attraction's income like it might be on Skyflier or Slingshot. As I said, this Dinosaurs Alive attraction will operate, opening to dusk, every day, whether five or five hundred people visit. All that's needed is a small showing of commitment from the visitor that they wish the exhibit no harm, and I think $4.00 for non-passholders and $2.00 (or even $3.00) for passholders is plenty, even if it meant general admission price increased by a dollar to cover for the difference. $16.00 vs. $20.00. That's the difference for a family of four. Even if that extra $4.00 is made up in admission price, I simply feel that they'll feel much less gouged (and thus, more likely to visit the extra exhibit) if they pay $16.00 instead of $20.00. And for a family who has spent upwards of $300 on passes, does $8.00 extra not seem a fair price, since they've already shown their commitment to the park through buying passes? A group of rowdy teens, even if they're passholders, is very unlikely to open their wallets just for the opportunity to goof around at an exhibit.

I certainly didn't mean to indicate that the dinosaur park should replace free parking. Rather, I was saying that free parking seems like a higher tier than their dinosaur park, and so it's strange that the latter isn't included. If you can get the gold, you should also be able to get the silver, right? My proposition was for $2.00 entry for passholders, and I stick by it.

This ride is no more wooden than Adventure Express, or Gemini. Think of The Villain, or Hades, or Ravine Flyer II... Steel coasters? Hardly. Certainly the composition of the supports does alter the ride experience to a degree - that's why the "hybrid" status is applied. If the same treatment were given to Son of Beast, the fact of the matter is that it would not be the tallest, fastest, second-longest wooden roller coaster on Earth. It would be an above-average-sized steel hybrid coaster with a wooden structure. But wouldn't Cedar Fair still try to market it with its past accolades reborn? Certainly. The public might realize the strangeness of the claim, but they certainly wouldn't care.

True. In fact, that may be one of the best reasons to have an upcharge at all. After all, like it or not an amusement park caters to a far different crowd than a zoo. I hate to think how some 13 - 15 year olds who think they're too cool for school might treat these displays, or worse yet, the 17 - 20 year olds trying to show off. Having an upcharge will keep them away. I just think that a $2.00 / $4.00 one would accomplish the same thing without being a blatant cry for money. Free to park, but not to see the dinosaurs? Interesting priorities.

I agree that I would be pleased to visit this attraction if it were given a different pricing scheme. Honestly, I would find it incredibly reasonable if it were $4.00 for visitors, $2.00 for pass-holders. Consider something like Xtreme Skyflier or Slingshot. We are talking about very, very low capacity attractions who almost intrinsically require a limitation to be placed on who can ride it - in this case, money. If it didn't cost extra, the line would be infinite. Supply and demand. In order to make the ride profitable, its income must surpass its operating costs. That search for profit must also be balanced with the demand for the experience. So on slow days, $5.00 is enough to keep the line filled to the right amount, and to keep the ride's operation financially worthwhile. On heavy traffic days, the balance is at $20.00. But this Dinosaurs Alive attraction will be operating all day, every day, whether five, fifty, or five hundred people are viewing it. Perhaps there will be a day when the operating costs far, far exceed the income produced. The parks hope is that there will be more days when the income trumps the operation. There is no individual experience that relies on the customers to take life. Slingshot would be useless without visitors. Dinosaurs Alive will not have that same limitation. It's going to operate whether I visit or not, so it's almost silly for me to pay that much (I feel the same way about drinks in fast food restaurants - free, unlimited refills, with people dumping out full large cups if they change their mind, but I have to pay exorbitant amounts for a drink of my own? Can't I simply take a "credit" from the old woman who didn't get a refill and have a free drink? Not sociologically sensical of course, but financially...) Granted, I see that that is how dinosaur exhibits often work in zoos. The difference here is, you've already spent upwards of $150 dollars to get your family into Kings Island, and even beyond that, there's a reason why upcharge dinosaur exhibits at zoos are traveling exhibits. Fun, interactive, and unique as they might be, how many times is the same customer likely to pay extra to visit, even after three or four years? Certainly pass-holders are even LESS likely to keep coming back, as they may be at the park weekly, daily, hourly... I think $2.00 is a fair price for passholders, and $4.00 is the upper limit for what customers will pay after a certain number of months. Of course, we'll find out. If the pricing scheme isn't working, it will change. ... Or not (Sorry to pull a Terpy).

Nepotism is alive and well... And thankfully, the related employee is almost always the best man for the job - so much so that he probably could've gotten the job even if he weren't related to the employer... Right?

True in many ways. I do agree that it's like, problem after problem develops, and instead of solving it, they just build a replacement without bothering to remove the ailing attraction. Think of the additions we've had without any action (reconstruction or demolition) taken toward Son of Beast: Firehawk, Diamondback, Planet Snoopy, Boo Blasters, WindSeeker, and Dinosaurs Alive. And in that same span of time, what has become of the world's largest top spin? While I can't say that I know the emotions of other park goers, I can personally say that I would happily forego WindSeeker and / or Dinosaurs Alive (maybe even Firehawk) to at least make some headway on the outstanding problems. Perhaps it's not that simple. But couldn't we have had 10 less animatronic dinosaurs and put that small fraction of this year's income towards The Crypt? Just think of all that could be done to that ride with a fifth of Dinosaurs Alive's budget... Really. And one truly can't help but wonder what the condition of Dinosaurs Alive, WindSeeker, Planet Snoopy, and Boo Blasters will be in 5, 10, 15 years... Will their much-needed budget be instead be channeled into a "distraction attraction" as it were?

I think I'd be happy to pay the $5.00 if I knew that that money would remain local and stay at our own park - that is, if it will be used to pay off the Dinosaur addition, help fix up The Crypt, etc. If it's going to pay some exorbitant salary for a board member, I would rather not. And yes, as was said, I doubt this will remain up-charge for long. At least, not $5.00. That's $20 extra for a family of four, which may not be a good afternoon segway after that $40 lunch. I think people would happily browse it if it were free, but to shell out another $20 is asking a lot, especially if it's not even free for passholders... Unique choice. We'll see how that turns out. Overall, I'm excited, but honestly can't see myself visiting more than once if it's up-charge.

In an ironic twist, Universal was actually one of the first to have a free queueing system open to all park guests. Their "Universal Express" was nearly identical to Disney's current Fastpass system, with the return-times and the print-off tickets. Once the system was successfully mimicked by Disney, Universal discontinuined it, keeping only what had been the upcharge version, Universal Express Plus - which allowed you to use the Express queue without all of that pesky return-time waiting. So today, Universal has "Universal Express Pass Plus," even though there is no un-plussed version remaining. And I, too, posted a topic wondering aloud what sort of system could be implemented at Kings Island. I guess it just irritates me when I travel. For example, when my friends and I take a massive trip to Virginia, we enjoy getting Busch Garden's QuickQueue. And look, I know all about the morality discussion - is it right to pay to cut in line? But when you're on vacation - enthusiast or not - it's extraordinarily relaxing to go to sleep knowing that you're waking up and going to an amusement park where you won't have to wait in lines. So it's sort of annoying that Kings Dominion doesn't offer a similar system. The line for Volcano or Intimidator or Grizzly or Dominator or Flight of Fear can get quite long... What would be the harm in offering a $30 wristband that allows you to enter through the exit one time for each major ride? It's as simple as marking the exit as the Quick Queue entrance, and then roping off one row of a coaster so that guests don't line up for that particular row. It doesn't require fancy machines that print-off tickets (Disney) or barcode scanning (Universal) or even the Q-Bot technology (Six Flags or Dollywood). It really can be as simple as a little card you keep in your wallet where ride attendants with permanent markers cross off their ride once you've ridden it, and a wristband to make sure you didn't just use your friends card. And honestly, that would be a good thing to sell on peak days during the summer. Because let's face it. Monday - Friday, the longest line at Kings Island is not more than 15 minutes (except for Firehawk).

The Facebook page said it will be released "around April 1st." We'll see!

Screamscape is reporting that this Empire Industries actually owns Dynamic Structures, who has done much of the steel work for Disney's Test Track, Soarin', and the re-build of Space Mountain at Disneyland. They also, apparently, had something to do with Universal's Harry Potter ride through Kuka. He is projecting (for now) that this may be the revival of the Peoplemover at Disneyland (the sister of Florida's Magic Kingdom's still-operating Tomorrowland Transit Authority / WED-Way Peoplemover). $9 million sounds much more in line with something like that as opposed to a Son of Beast redo.

Since they're not offering ERT on rides I like, I probably will go a lot less than last year for sure. At least I will get to sleep in on Saturday mornings, and not try to scurry to get there before 9 for my 15 rides in a row! Because that 3 hour line for Diamondback during the week is intolerable... Oh, wait... When someone is as supremely unhappy as RaptorGuy, they are beyond reasoning with. He will continue to post negative things until he doesn't anymore. Just that simply!

Tomorrow at 2:00 PM

I'd rather have a successful, fun steel roller coaster than nothing (or a painful, rough, wooden coaster). Records aside, Son of Beast and Kings Island would improve in every way by having Son of Beast re-done in steel. I truly feel that.

Notice that this could literally be for most any roller coaster in the United States. Recall also that Texas Giant's re-tracking cost $10 million. This $9 million would logically seem to be for a shorter roller coaster... Something else to consider: Perhaps a no-name company that doesn't have tons of experience in the industry would be the most likely to tackle Son of Beast. After all, many companies that have already made a name for themselves in the amusement park industry would probably think twice before risking all they've worked for with Son of Beast. But a company that has never really entered the amusement park world has far less to lose. If they succeed with Son of Beast, they rocket to stardom in the industry. If not, they can simply return to what they do best, largely unaffected by their roller coaster result... So maybe any potential change to Son of Beast will be from a company like "Empire Industries" and not Intamin or Rocky Mountain (who will almost certainly be getting lots more work - with Six Flags at least). And then there's the fact that this was posted by The "Red Herring" Interpreter. Would he post it if he knew that this was in fact for Son of Beast (which he almost certainly would, somehow... ?) Things to consider!

No. For the most part, it would appear that this community expects that it will be a dinosaur walk through. What we are questioning is if the media has verified it with the park, or if their "reference" is a fan site not unlike this one. Most of us are in agreement about what this is. Granted, we don't know the scale - we don't know how many figures, or how much area is being added to the park, or if it might also involve landscaping and water features, or what company is behind it, or if it will overtake Action Theater (though many here have speculated on the answer to those). And in fact, the only thing that the media has reported is exactly what we've speculated on here... Searching "Kings Island New 2011 dinosaurs" on Google would likely bring you to this very thread. If a reporter misinterpreted our general community consensus for an official announcement, it's easy to see how that would be published very matter-of-fact-ly. So the question here is: do these newspapers know because it truly was made official by a park representative? or are they simply reiterating what we have said and misconstruing it as fact?

Good question! Wow, and you'd think that wood would fuel a fire...

I would love it if ours ended up like the Calgary one I posted photos of earlier (which is likely from the same company that might be doing our) which did have waterfalls, fake rock work, rivers, etc. Perhaps the place where the path appears to narrow on the "planning" map might be a bridge or something. Although you'd think that sort of construction would've started earlier on... I think that the worst thing that could happen to ours is that it's just some dinosaur animatronics scattered around in the woods, or if all the trees get cut down so it's just dinosaurs in a field. That's not very accurate to their natural habitat, is it? But yeah, I'm holding out for Dino Island in the Action Theater. Why not? Spongebob is so old, and I-Werks could install Dino Island in a day. Just scatter a few props around and re-configure the queue to come from the dino side of The Racer instead of The Vortex side and voila! A brand new area with two attractions! It seems like a worthwhile use of the ride that would otherwise play the same old movie (or nothing at all) for the 2011 season.

I never do. GYK, who does not have a Facebook, and will keep it that way, thank you very much.

Sigh. Unless I'm misinterpreting this post as being in reply to something that it's not, this is a perfect example. Uninformed, pre-judgement is going to be the end of us. Some of you say that this potential "walk-through" is overhyped, but you'd be more than happy to welcome it if it had little gasoline-powered cars driving through it at 3 miles per hour? What logic is that? And again: sigh. P.S. Thank you so much to the "n00bs" who are taking the time to use correct grammar, spelling, usage, etc. and writing posts that are informative, helpful, useful, and well-conceived. I know that it's a "best of both worlds" scenario, but I think we can do it if we pull together! We don't have to have the same opinion, but let's push to express our thoughts usefully and have civilized, thought-out discussions, not... well... this.

It's just irritating that people are going to go on and on and post negative comments on Facebook and news articles about how dumb this is. As I said, this is in addition to WindSeeker, not the other way around. WindSeeker is a sizable investment. I'm sure whatever the dinosaur attraction is will be a large investment too, but would you expect it to pass WindSeeker in terms of scale since it is the compliment and not the reverse? The way some people act, it's as though they'd rather have nothing than have something they don't personally like. What a skewed and unfortunate mindset. If you don't like it, don't go. But I know you will go. And you'll like it. They always do.

They had a banner on the website, and a fun video with Don (the marketing director) which bleeped out the stats, a picture of a goose, and some pictures of mud. Did the public go crazy? No. Did uninformed masses who now regret their actions rush out and buy Platinum Passes? Nope. The only thing that happened is that people here started deciding that this was a new roller coaster (that would miraculously be constructed from scratch, tested, and opened in 45 days), a Son of Beast re-do (which, again, would take place with about 20 days worth of construction time) or a 400-foot roller coaster. I wasn't aiming that comment directly at you, but more at all of the people here (both new and old) who are / will be upset with the park for "making this something it's not." Go to the teaser page right this second and show me even one single place where the idea of a Son of Beast re-do or a 400 foot coaster was hinted at. It isn't there. Our imaginations ran wild. We raised our expectations. We let the viral marketing get to us, and (lead by new and old members,) began to envision things that, frankly, are impossible at best. Now we are getting a brand-new, worlds-largest, dinosaur walk-through that will be absolutely awesome for families, kids, grandparents, and teenagers like me who can appreciate details. You can be sad that we're not getting a 400 foot coaster. But you can't blame the park for ever believing we might. P.S. It was only one goose.