bkroz

So, who here knows how many shares there are out there in FUN? Shall we multiply that by the $7.00 difference between the 52 week high and the $11.25 that all shareholders almost sold for? That should give us an idea of just how much the company was undervalued at that time...

I've heard the same said of both Disneyland and The Magic Kingdom... Is it true? How would one go about having a "lifetime pass?" Better yet are the stories that "all of them turned it down because they said they enjoyed the view." Ha!

Of course, this is a turbulent industry nowadays. Remember the approved permits for that stand-up roller coaster at Six Flags Great America? How about when a Cedar Point stomach-dropping classic was all but ready to re-emerge at Knott's? And not too long after that, that same West Coast park seemed to momentarily doubt that their already-announced attraction was coming at all, only to have the proverbial winds carry it to a significantly different section of the park. Cedar Point's swinging ship was setting sail permanently (a good year after their rapids ride opened too late, in more ways than one), but changed course to head towards the front of the park, where many thought a CGI woodie was headed (to replace the one that had been announced - but never emerged - at a former Paramount Park that shares a name with the originally-intended destination of said stand-up roller coaster that is now a good way into construction at a park that our own Interpreter holds near and dear). And then there's the matter of a certain roller coaster in Florida, from which you can hunt cheetahs, or something... Wasn't that all-but-confirmed to have a name matching the style of the parks other roller coasters, with paperwork, concept art, and even an official's slip-up using the name that it ended up not having? And not more than a hundred or so miles to the north, Snow White is out, the Dwarves are in, and the circus is in town for good, despite initial, official plans stating the opposite... The take home message? "No comment" might be the best answer anyone can give right now. Things change a lot around these parts...

Why not? It's sure to be beautiful as a towering landmark (or as Mr. Disney would say, a "weenie") at the far end of the Coney Mall area. It's also continued Cedar Fair's pattern of adding a new ride to an area of the park, and renovating that area in turn. First Rivertown, then Planet Snoopy, and now Coney Mall. Thematically (though I don't imagine this was necessarily their intention), the idea of a turbo-charged yo-yo swing fits very, very well with the idea of the Coney Mall area. A new take on a classic ride. And it's placed such that it'll provide a great view of the entire park in one glance, and a lot of wilderness with another. I think it's great, and will liven up that area of the park. Now if only they could really renovate Coney Mall... If it lived up to its potential and had twinkling carnival lights, red-white-and-blue nostalgic coloring, a bright, freshly painted Racer (that actually raced), flags everywhere, and some cheap, fun food options, it might truly be a beautiful place to spend an evening. And how romantic would the Tower Gardens be, a couple huddled together by the waterfall, fish swimming through the ponds, with the shrieks of joy and the clank of the roller coasters and the old-timey music of Coney Mall fading in the distance..... GYK, a romantic.

Perhaps true. But there is much more than the cost of the renovation at work here. Is the "Son of Beast" name worth reviving? Would people want to ride it? Would a "new" Son of Beast be marketable, and to the extent that it would boost park attendance? And then there's the lingering reminder that it not as simple as saying "Oh, nevermind. Let's get rid of it and use that $15 million to buy a new roller coaster." What do you expect to happen to the wood, the steel, the nuts, the screws, the bolts, the concrete, that comprises the ride that stands back there? In an ideal world, it would disappear. This is not an ideal world. If it's decided that Son of Beast will not open, then its cost is not negated. That tremendous, towering wooden structure will need to be dismantled - and dismantled carefully, at that. That task in and of itself is monstrous. But pretend it was undertaken through careful, planned demolition and hand-removal at all of the areas that are especially close to Flight Deck and Adventure Express. Great! But now you have the world's largest pile of chemically-treated, non-burnable wood, nails, metal scraps, and concrete. Where does it go? How does it get there? Who loads it into whatever takes it there? Something that we have to keep in mind when looking at the Son of Beast situation is the cost of removal. I haven't the slightest idea what that might be. But let's just suspend reality and say it would cost $8 million for removal. Maybe on the other side of the coin, it costs $15 to give it the "Iron Horse" treatment. Is that an easy decision? $8 million for a guaranteed empty field, or $15 million for a chance at a really breathtaking, marketable(?) ride... So yeah, a $15 million budget could build us a nice new ride. But Son of Beast won't magically disappear into the sunset. So maybe that $15 million budget will get you a $7 million ride, or a renovated Son of Beast. One thing's for sure: EVENTUALLY, something WILL have to be done to it. There's no two ways about that. It absolutely WILL cost MILLIONS of dollars, regardless of their choice to change it, or remove it. It's really that simple. So the question is, which will lead to the best financial outcome for the park in the long run? It's not as easy as we might think, I'm sure...

The ride looks absolutely incredible. Those turns take my breath away. When this was first announced, my initial thought was that Cedar Fair would be watching the outcome very, very closely. Now, I'm more hopeful for that than ever. To see Son of Beast have a double-up into an overbanked turn, filled with absolutely insane hills and twists and ejector air... Wow.

Pardon me, but Six Flags long ago cannibalized the third train for spare parts when the coaster was still X-Flight before Kinzel & Associates bought Geauga Lake. By immediately, I had meant when it was constructed at Six Flags. Obviously that's not the case, but I absolutely know it was Six Flags and not Cedar Fair.

From my observations alone, I feel like Wicked Twister loads a lot faster, and is checked much more quickly for whatever reason. Also, Wicked Twister definitely isn't longer than the cycle length of Invertigo. If anything, I'd wager that Wicked Twister's length is far less since it doesn't have to navigate two whole lift hills (one at the beginning, and one at the end, plus a little of one in between). But again, that's all observationally and really I don't even know why I'm defending it, because I absolutely see your point. Just thought it was something worth considering!

But let's also consider the hourly capacity of a Vekoma inverted boomerang. Would you install one at a park with traffic like Cedar Point has? Would you place it right at the entrance? Would you give it a bright and attractive color scheme? These are the questions that one would have to ask. Because a bright, tall, loud roller coaster looming over the entrance to the park (and far more accessible from that entrance than our own) that probably averages on what, 700 riders an hour if that? Our 12 year old one still has a 30 - 60 minute wait most days.. And that's not necessarily proof that it's a well-attended attraction... Still quite a loss for Great America. ... But if it closes, can we call dibs on their Firefall, rockwork, music, water features, flames, and all?

I'd wager 2012. That would be a pretty quick turnover and announcement for a new ride, even one of smaller size. Plus, this is the same company that is never quite sure which parks are getting which rides, decide on parks, then change their minds, then change the area within the park that they have ready for it, then change the color scheme, then decide to keep old rides...

Redundancy = safety. And not always to the ride manufacturers. Sometimes, the illusion of safety causes people to do things they would not normally do... See those who speed on the highway in treacherous winter conditions, assured that their multi-ton steel shell with wheels will protect them, or those who mercilessly attack others on the internet since they have the power of anonymity and a deficit of empathy. Adding those seat belts has helped more than one person here conquer their fear of Drop Zone!

EDIT: http://www.dorneypark.com/public/park/rides/roller_coasters/stinger.cfm Dorney Park has officially announced "Stinger," the relocated Vekoma Inverted Boomerang from California's Great America. The ride is identical to our own "Invertigo." The ride is being built on the former site of "Laser" next to their Intamin Twisted Impulse Coaster, "Possessed." _________________________________________________________________________________________ ORIGINAL POST: News broke the other night that California's Great America is removing their "Invertigo" roller coaster (an exact copy of our own) to free up the space for "something new" in the coming years. Methinks it more than coincidence that the ride also stranded a train full of people on the lift hill for hours on end just last summer, and has likely developed a less than stellar reputation. Then this morning, Great America's official website had the following to say: http://www.cagreatam...fm?item_id=1069 Perhaps it's for the best. Great America's coaster count is dwindling, and there's no denying that this would be a cheap, but fun install for parks like Dorney. And, if we're being frank, Cedar Point doesn't have a boomerang coaster, it's plenty "gimmicky" with the face-to-face seating that they could slap a "record" on it, it's small enough that it wouldn't require too much land, and they are falling behind on the coaster count now, which oh so many people at CFHQ seem to think is unacceptable... Also, I had to chuckle at the "this is not unusual" part... For Great America, it certainly is not... Such a shame, really. Remember when X-Flight was being removed to infuse capitol into another Cedar Fair park that was more in need of thrill rides than its original home? I do..

I believe it is true that The Disney Company (and perhaps moreso, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, a division of said company) has reached a bit too far. Disney('s) California Adventure is truly not an awful park. Those who have been can likely agree with me that, on its own, it's a very nice park with a fair sampling of attractions. The issue is that it costs the same as its sister park to spend a day there. As has been said, the mistake has been all but admitted, and is currently being overhauled (The lesson? Build it right the first time. Disney is spending as much to rebuild California Adventure as it cost to originally build Tokyo DisneySea, seen by many as the pinnacle of themed amusement parks). Eisner's Disney Decade also "required" the construction of a second gate at the still faltering resort in Marne-la-Vallée, France. If you think California Adventure is lackluster, take a look at that park, which by all accounts could've been build as an extension to the castled park instead of a sibling to it. Hong Kong Disneyland was built soon after - the smallest of any Magic Kingdom blueprint park. When it opened, it did not have a Haunted Mansion, "it's a small world," Big Thunder Mountain, or Autopia. As with California Adventure (though apparently on a much less public scale), the park is currently undergoing a rapid transformation, adding three new lands that feature a haunted house and a "western" style roller coaster, among other things. Then there's the problems at the stateside parks, one of which is the topic of this discussion. Others have called foul on the overemphasis of Pixar movies. I'm not a Disney Purist who believes that things should stay exactly the way they have always been, but look at Florida's Tomorrowland. Monsters Inc. has taken over The Timekeeper, Stitch is loose in Alien Encounter, and Buzz Lightyear has made his way into Take Flight. It's great for the new generation of visitors, but what happened to the idea of a futuristic, clean, silver and neon city of tomorrow? Buzz Lightyear? Stitch? Monster's Inc? And then there's California's Tomorrowland... No theme park operator is perfect, and Disney has its flaws. I do believe they need to reign themselves in not only industry-wise (opening Shanghai Disneyland without fixing the other six?), but also in operations. Perhaps I'm foolish, but I don't think Mr. Disney would take too kindly to the idea of the walkaround character experiences ending. Then again, he probably wouldn't have taken too kindly to California Adventure, either...

Absolutely. Those smoooooooth as butter transitions, incredible-looking overbanks... And that double-up into an overbank on the second hill looks superb! As someone who is far more a park enthusiast than a coaster one - and who has little to no knowledge towards the inner and outer workings of roller coasters - it seems to me that this may in fact be the only feasible option for Son of Beast. The cost may be prohibitive (or even impossible), but I can't imagine anything else equilibrating between cost and performance nearly as well... Time will tell... or not. (There, now Terp doesn't have to add the "or not." )

What an impressive video, and a great looking ride. Truly. I find myself impressed in a way that I don't think I have been in quite some time... It looks like an incredible ride.

Perhaps this is naive of me, but I'm just not sure how well at Potter Park would've done. To deny the outlandish, runaway success of the series would be ridiculous. I can't even think off the top of my head of another film / book intellectual property with as much apparent staying power. But an entire amusement park (no matter how large or small) dedicated to the franchise? Potter is doubtlessly an enormous draw for Universal's Islands of Adventure... But it's not the only draw. Large, encompassing parks like Islands, Magic Kingdom, Hollywood Studios, etc. are places that people can come year after year after year, re-experiencing things differently as time goes on. No matter how many times you've traveled to Disneyland, the idea never grows old because there's so much to see and do. A park based entirely on one intellectual property, no matter how strong the property is, simply doesn't seem to be that it would elicit an annual trip from most people... I think that weaving the Wizarding World into an existing, famous, high-caliber park was absolutely ideal. And who knows how Disney would've done with it? I'm sure it would've turned out beautifully. But there's absolutely no denying that Universal did a superb job in most every regard (and no, I have not yet been). From most everything anyone has said, it's a beautiful, thorough, enchanting, lively recreation. Could Disney have done as well? Probably. Could they have done better? Doubtful.

And the full new plans have been unveiled... THE NEW NEW FANTASYLAND THE DISMISSED ORIGINAL DESIGN (for comparison): As you can likely see, there are a few major changes. First, the idea of the separate Aurora, and Cinderella meet-and-greet locations has been scrapped. Instead of each princess having her own castle or home or location, both Aurora and Cinderella (plus various other princesses) will be combined into "The Princess Fairytale Hall," which will be located in what is now Snow White's Scary Adventures classic dark ride (which will, incidentally, be closing). The area which formerly was meant to contain Cinderella's home (the purple-tinted house in the direct center of the latter map) is now going to be home to "The Seven Dwarves Mine Train," which will be a completely new coaster (and not a redesign of the current Goofy's Barnstormer) that is partially indoors. The official press release states that the ride will “take guests on a rollicking, musical ride into the mine “where a million diamonds shine.” The coaster will feature a first-of-its kind ride system with a train of ride vehicles that swing back and forth, responding to every twist and turn of the track. The journey will be accompanied by music from the classic Disney film and animated figures of Snow White and the Dwarfs.” Speculation says that this first of its kind ride system may be Premier's recently revealed Drifting Coaster, which sounds to me like it has a swinging capability not unlike that "fishtailing" mechanism which our own Italian Job: Stunt Track was supposed to have... The announced "Pixie Hollow" area (upper right in the second, original concept art) has been nixed, and replaced (or... something) with "Storybook Circus". I have read on many fan sites that Disney fans are not at all thrilled about this... It looks to be a loose remodeling of the current "Mickey's Toontown Fair" area, retaining the large circus tents which housed meet-and-greets. Of course, that's not to say that Disney fans were all too thrilled about Pixie Hollow, either. I couldn't care one way or another, though I imagined Pixie Hollow as being a very beautiful, serene place to be at night, with fiber optics, leaping fountains, and soft music very much like Disneyland's Triton Garden (but, like many, I was a little peeved at the idea of yet another Disney ride being centered around a fly-by-night, direct-to-video movie... Remember when Disneyland's Big Thunder Ranch got a makeover to include the cows from Home on the Range? 'Oops,' says imagineering.) The Storybook Circus sub-land is still anchored by the affectionately named "Dueling Dumbos," which will feature an interactive queue full of games, props, and music. In keeping with the circus theme, Goofy's Barnstormer will be re-themed to "The Great Goofini," a stunt plane driver for the circus. This should theoretically allow Disney to keep much of the ride intact, including the aviation themeing throughout, and the airplane-shaped trains. (Please also notice how Disney's expectations and desires are made very, very clear by who is depicted in the concept art, and their expressions, outfits, and family). Though it is a little disappointing that the giant tents of Mickey's Toontown Fair are staying in what might otherwise be a very tranquil, forested area, I think that the Storybook Circus does have potential. Look at Busch Gardens Williamsburg's Italian carnival area. Sure, it's "schmaltzy" with midway games and bright colors, but it all feels very well put together, very natural, and very carefully designed. I'm sure we can expect the same of New Fantasyland. It seems that a French village is planned for the outskirts of the forest, just outside The Beast's Castle (which will still contain the Be Our Guest Restaurant) which will feature shopping and dining in a very small-town atmosphere. Also included is a reimagining of the old Enchanted Tales with Belle. According to the press release, guests will enter Maurice's house and step through a magical mirror that leads into the library of The Beast's Castle, where Belle and some of the film's characters will act out the story as they used to on the old outdoor stage near Tomorrowland. Otherwise, "Under the Sea - Journey of the Little Mermaid" (an exact copy of Disney California Adventure's "Ariel's Undersea Adventure") is still expected. IN Storybook Circus Seven Dwarves Mine Train Princess Fairytale Hall Enchanted Tales With Belle Whatever will take place in Storybook Circus' tents... OUT Snow White's Scary Adventures (closing) Pixie Hollow (scrapped) Cinderella's Birthday Meet-and-Greet (scrapped) Aurora's Meet-and-Greet (scrapped) UNCHANGED Under The Sea - Journey of the Little Mermaid Dumbo The Flying Elephant(s) Barnstormer (now being rethemed to The Great Goofini) Be Our Guest Restaurant All photos and info from Disney and More. As the original poster quoted, the original New Fantasyland is meant to draw the children (or at least the young girls) away from a certain School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Disney got a lot of flak online for catering too much towards the girls, with the original plans essentially calling for four new princess meet-and-greets, a fairy playground, a restaurant, and a dark ride. Speculation is that the retooling of Fantasyland was meant to create a more well-rounded experience, drawing not only young girls, but families with children of any gender who aren't quite old enough for Potter, or who aren't interested in him. Instead of princesses, fairies, and mermaids, it's now dwarves, circuses, and mermaids. So, will it work?

And then there's Firehawk (or more appropriately, X-Flight) which reportedly arrived with three trains, one of which was immediately disassembled to use for spare parts... So it uses two, with a dual loading station... And they still can't get the darn thing to work properly!

In some regards, you must feel bad for the higher ups at Cedar Fair Entertainment Company. Their debt is due in large part to the purchase of five profitable, but admittedly overpriced amusement parks. Because the previous owners of said parks had neither treated their parks as nor intended their parks to be strictly "thrill parks," and because the new owners were not okay with that, four of the five underwent nearly immediate, rapid, large-scale expansions, adding new roller coasters, subtracting intellectual properties of the past, multiplying food prices, eliminating that which was not essential, and dividing food quality. The Paramount Parks were making money. They were well-attended. And they seemed to have a very strong, stable, secure infrastructure. Cedar Fair paid a premium price for them (likely keeping that stability in mind), but quickly sought profit over performance, and ousted those who knew the parks best. What they didn't expect was that the economy would go the way it has at such a pivotal time in their ownership of those parks. With an aggressive "beef up" campaign in the former Paramount Parks, and without the key leaders who had presided over the parks during the previous eras (and perhaps worse, with many of them working for the competition), they have taken on massive amounts of debt, underhandedly attempted to short-change the stockholders out of desperation, and given the CEO raise after raise after raise. I do not even begin to claim that Cedar Fair has "ruined" the parks. Far from it. Do I have questions about some decisions? Sure. Do I think priorities are off? Sure. Would I try to run the parks differently if I had the choice? Of course. But the problems are at the top, because they made a decision they thought would pay off in the long run. Because of the economy, it isn't paying off, so they're doing anything they can to make money (see, food prices) and it's alienating the clientele even more.

As for those rumored new trains for Gwazi, johnnyupsidedown sent an interesting photo intoScreamscape yesterday. While I don't doubt that its Millennium Flyers on the way, is it industry-standard to announce a specific re-opening date (and one so soon?) if new trains really were happening? Wouldn't significant testing have to be done? Could the trains really on the track and ready for human riders in ten days? I don't know what the precedent is...

I think I may resent a remark or two in there! Hahha. But I'm glad you had fun! Such great parks... So much to offer...

And then there's this little number. Would it make a world of difference if the drilling territories were reversed? Probably not. But it's notable, nonetheless...

Perhaps the added "l" is intentional... It forms a very important English word within the German root I'm absolutely excited for this ride, but am getting mixed signals about it's theme.. The references to the Black Forest seem to indicate a haunted woods, Thirteen-esque ride. But some of the possible ride names and the autobahn reference seem to indicate that perhaps they're thinking of a racing theme? Autobahns? Turbo? Uber bahn? I can't imagine that Busch Gardens would have a ride like that... So I'm not too worried. Hopefully those names are in reference to the rides speed only. We shall see! Posted from my iPhone 4.

No kidding! Who'd have thunk it? GYK, who thinks it's absolutely fantasmic when these crazy amusement park people bury those pesky rules of nature in an outdoor crypt where they belong!

Not to mention that that particular ride is desperately in need of renovation, second perhaps only to the nearby Incredible Hulk roller coaster. The exterior is faded, and many of the external effects that once made the ride so charming haven't worked in years. (Another unfortunate example of how the "world's most technologically-advanced theme park" is forfeiting its title. It was very advanced when it opened, but has been skating on the same technology for the last decade. If it weren't for Harry Potter, the park would admittedly be only slightly above average; that's thanks to things like Dudley Do-Right, Jurassic Park, Incredible Hulk, and Poseidon's Fury being neglected more and more as the repair list becomes longer and longer). Basically, it's awful that this happened, but maybe it will lead to good things in the future. No question that the park needs to begin the much-rumored park-wide rehab that was supposed to accompany the arrival of Mr. Potter. Maybe, like with the Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit, this will be a good excuse to get some of that work started in Toon Lagoon.