jzarley

I'll take it a step further ... Contrary to all the threads related to other companies buying PKI (i.e., CF, SF, etc., etc.), after the split I actually see Paramount Parks in the position to BUY some additional parks. CoastersRZ's and Ryan's points about the parks playing a bigger role in the "value" side of the company, is exactly right. And, Paramount Parks appears to be sitting in pretty good shape right now...from all accounts they finished better in the 2004 season than either of their regional competitors... Joel

This "forward looking" statment (or one that carries similar language) is required for all public companies by the Sarbanes-Oxley act. When you listen to conference calls, this statment is actually read at the beginning of each call... Being a new public company (they had their IPO in December), I imagine that Great Wolf is doing everything by the book, and then some! Joel

There was an active thread over on Coasterbuzz last week titled "Abandoned Park in Japan". I didn't read any of the messages, but I bet this is what it referred to...

Although, in fairness, Disney took them to the cleaners over the whole Disney/MGM Studios deal, so I'm sure MGM is making sure they always get their fair share now. I believe "Outer Limits" was also an MGM media property... Joel

While the meeting area is smaller (40,000 sq ft vs. 50,000 sq ft) than was initially rumored, the waterpark is going to be pretty darn big by Ohio indoor standards: Kalahari (Sandusky)-- 80,000 sq ft Great Wolf (PKI)-- 75,000 sq ft Fort Rapids (Holiday Inn East--Columbus)-- 58,000 sq ft Castaway Bay (Sandusky)-- 38,000 sq ft Great Wolf (Sandusky)-- 33,000 sq ft As I've said multiple times in the past...I think this is a GREAT project! Joel

I really have to wonder how a group of people can keep having the EXACT SAME conversation, over and over and over and over... But, somehow we've found a way to do it

Funny...the journalism school I graduated from sort of frowned on situations like that But seriously...as someone who writes travel features, I'm sure you could finagle a comp'ed room as "research" in writing a review. (Might be a good way to spend a January weekend...) Joel

Any idea of the cause for delay? Is it a ride/systems concept issue, or an MGM licensing issue? (Or, a little of both...)

Yeah, Ryan...great description. You definitely painted a great verbal picture! And, FWIW...according to the web site, the first drop on the Euro Fighter is 97 degrees...actually steeper than straight down! Unfortunately, I agree with everyone that thinks getting two heavily themed coasters in a row isn't very likely...but, this sounds like a great installation for a few years down the road! Joel

I had always assumed that the AF coaster was a B&M dive machine too... However, after looking at the web sight for the Euro Fighter, I think it looks pretty cool! http://www.gerstlauer-rides.de/english/Ger...P1_EuroF_E.html I'd be somewhat concerned about the capacity, but the site lists riders-per-hour at around 1,100 (which probably means more like 750/rph in real-life operation...) I'm sure the price tag on the coaster itself is CONSIDERABLY lower than a B&M Dive Machine, so that leaves more $ to be spent on top-notch themeing. Joel

My understanding is that it will be a situation similar to the Tokyo Disneyland/Oriental Land Company deal, where an investment company will actually own the park (or majority of it), and Paramount Parks will design & manage it. (I imagine Viacom will have some limited ownership as well...) Joel

From what I've heard, Bonfante Gardens is a beautiful park, but not much for rides and attractions. (I've always figured it was kind of like the "old" Cypress Gardens.) The guy (whose last name in Bonfante) built it with his own money because it had always been his dream to build his own park. (I think he owns a chain of grocery stores if I recall correctly...) Despite opening to rave reviews for its themeing and landscaping, the park didn't bring in the crowds necessary. It came very close to closing, until Paramount came in to take over the management contract. (Due to their economies of scale from owning the other parks, Paramount Parks could really reduce park operating costs. Not to mention their marketing power with PGA just around the corner.) To be honest, Paramount Parks really saved that park... Of course, I'm sure their motives weren't 100% alturistic. The last thing they wanted was another park operator moving in (i.e., SF or CF), expanding the park, and competing directly with PGA. So, I guess it worked out best for everyone Joel

I said PGA...not Carowinds. PGA's Top Gun was installed in '93 just like PKI's. Both PKD and Carowinds got identical installations of DoT that same year, and PGA and PKI both got a coaster called Top Gun...I think there's a certain line of logic that says that IF Kings Island hadn't been too far in to the Arrow project, that PKI's Top Gun might have very well been a B&M as well. (B&M's...buy 'em in bulk! ) The Arrow suspended had already been announced for KI prior to the Paramount acquisition. If I remember correctly its original name was "Thunder Run" or something similar... Joel

I still maintain that if KECO hadn't been too far into the project with Arrow to back-out when Paramount bought the parks, our Top Gun would have probably looked a lot like PGA's. (But, I guess we'll never really know that for sure...) Congrats on the 400th post

Personally, I just think Top Gun needs a little "love"... Restore the themeing under the station, restore the sound track, a little paint, etc. While the ride duration is a lot shorter, TG is still a superior ride experience to Iron Dragon (or "Iron Draggin'" as it's sometimes called...) at CP. As far as ride experience itself, I've always heard that TG is second only to Big Bad Wolf at BGW. (TG is certainly the best Arrow suspended I've ridden...excluding The Bat, of course...) Joel

I never said Cedar Point bought Geauga Lake...I said SF had bought GL to take on Cedar Point. I think you misread my comment, and as such missed my whole point... SIX FLAGS purchased Geauga Lake and rebranded it "Six Flags Ohio". (Well, technically, they already owned it when they were Premier Parks, but that's a whole other story...) A few years later, they purchased Sea World Ohio (from AB), combined it with SFO, and renamed the whole thing "Six Flags Worlds of Adventure". They marketed and promoted SFWOA to compete directly with Cedar Point ("we drove by Cedar Point to get here", as was said in one commercial). The SFWOA effort eventually failed, causing SF to sell the park to Cedar Fair who renamed it "Geauga Lake" (AGAIN). My point (and subtle attempt at humor) was...SF has already tried to take on CP directly in their own market and failed miserably. They're not likely to do it again... (Even if they didn't have $2.1 billion in long-term debt which pretty much precludes them from buying anything.)

I guess I have a hard time understanding the point of a thread like this... Is this purely a blue sky hypothetical "what if" type of conversation...well, ok, those can be kind of fun. (You know, kind of like fantasy football...) However, if this is a serious conversation about Six Flags buying Paramount Parks (or even just PKI), it's pretty much just an exercise in futility. We might as well have threads titled "what if Home Depot bought PKI" or "what if the Olive Garden bought PKI", since those options are about equally as likely To be honest, after the split of Viacom occurs and Paramount Parks settles into the "value" division, I could actually see Paramount Parks picking up some existing SF parks, as opposed to the other way around... Joel

Yeah--it certainly worked great for Six Flags taking on Cedar Point by buying Geauga Lake, huh? Considering SF's financial condition, Americana might be a better choice

Maybe the wind coming in off the lake makes the difference Also, a ride's theoretical capacity never seems to quite translate into actual RPH once the thing is installed and opened. (What was the original RPH for FoF supposed to be? Some unbelievable number like 1600 RPH if I remember correctly...) I think a shorter ride cycle on Max Air would be a big mistake. I think the ride cycle for Delirium is about perfect for it.

I agree with everyone who says that Face Off is a good coaster...just with terrible capacity. It will never be a headliner...and to be honest, I don't think they ever intended it to be. (That's why it was introduced as a package with DZ...) But, I'm sure it helps with crowd management at the "headliners." When you get right down to it, it's really still just a Boomerang... A suspended and fun one, yes--but still just a Boomerang. Joel

Yeah, I'd heard that rumor about the Indy stunt show at Disney-MGM as well... Did you see the feature on jimhillmedia.com that showed how originally there was supposed to be pretty much a "mini-Indiana Jones Land" at MGM? Pretty cool... Keep in mind that when Lucas decided to grant theme park rights to Disney for IJ and Star Wars Paramount Parks didn't even exist then. Not that it would really have mattered...CoastersRZ is right--Disney has the resources to make sure they're done right. (Not only that, but you reach a much larger audience through Disney than any other park chain...) Regardless of the source of AE's theme, I'm still a big fan of the ride. I still think it's the second best mine train ever built (the first being Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at DL and MK!). I ride it everytime I'm at the park, which is something I can't say for all the coasters (Vortex & TG). It's funny that I always think of the years during Carl Linder's ownership as the "dark years" (and in terms of maintenance, cleanliness, etc., it was...), but two of the best attractions ever came during that time...AE and PT! Joel

Paramount produced and distributed the Indy movies...they don't own the rights to them (or have they ever). George Lucas maintains ownership of ALL rights to the Indy series as well as Star Wars. Lucas licensed the rights to use both for theme park attractions to Disney for a few reasons. First and foremost, he was a big fan of the Disney parks--having been a lifelong fan of Disneyland. Secondly, he had a pretty good friendship with Michael Eisner going back to when Eisner was in charge of Paramount when Indy was filmed. Intellectual property rights are a complicated business. Unfortunately, just because a studio films and distributes a movie doesn't mean they "own" it. And, negotiating "theme park rights" as part of a package is a fairly new practice (within the last ten years or so...) Joel

My favorite is International Street...I have so many good memories of sitting at a table by the fountain near dusk and eating a slice (or two!) of La Rosa's. It's one of my favorite times of day at the park!

I got the link to this article off of Screamscape. It sounds like planning for the park in Japan is going forward... http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=3&id=334955 Joel

To be honest, the parks have been passed around with each corporate reorganization. While right now they're part of the Nickelodeon mangement group, they've also been part of Blockbuster (as part of the "Retail & Recreation" group), and Paramount Pictures. So, if nothing else--park management is certainly used to management change Right now I think they ultimately report up to Tom Freston, but that will change to Les Moonves in the new company. (Although, they've probably reported to him at some point in the past too...) The good news is that Paramount Parks will have greater importance in the "Value" company than it currently has in Viacom as a whole, since they'll make up a greater portion of the overall revenue in that part of the split company. Ultimately that should be good for the parks... Joel