erniebald57

Hey everyone. Not sure if this is posted yet. Any of you Beast fans out there may want to check out themeparkinsider.com for the next couple of days. They are having a NCAA tournament like bracket to determine the best ride in the country based on reader voting. The Beast made it through the first round by a narrow margin. There will be tough competition for The Beast in the next round, as it will be going against some highly popular Disney/IOA rides. This tournament contains mostly Disney and Universal rides, as many readers on the site generally rate themed rides higher or haven't ridden rides outside of Florida or California. In short, the deck is stacked against The Beast. Two other local favorites, Millennium Force and Dragster, are also still in the bracket. To pull for your favorite ride, and to vote for other rides around the country as well, go to themeparkinsider.com to show your support for the local charges. Responsible voting (voting for rides you've actually ridden) encouraged.

I have issue with the closing of Geauga Lake for these reasons 1. The issue with profitibility is due to management, not the market. Kennywood operates in the same market and is expanding the park. Half a million guests (which were the low end estimates) is plenty of customer base to remain open. They chose to pit Geauga Lake against Cedar Point when they removed the marine animals. There was no difference between the two parks. They then chose to develop the other side of the lake away from the rides instead of scaling down the rides side and building over there. They then chose to add no new rides and make small improvements (albeit good ones, but nothing to grab attention). They never really advertised or put any serious investment into marketing, and if they did, it had zero effect. 2. They didn't announce the closing until the end of the season. It would seem to me that if they were planning to close, it wouldn't be an immediate decision. They have to have had this in the works for some time, as evidenced by the fact that old Geauga rides are being announced and moved as we speak as new rides in other parks. The park has been a tradition for Cleveland area residents for 120 years, and Cedar Fair at least owed it to the city and the fans to give them one last chance to visit. In addition, they lost out on a probably lucrative "last ride" or even "last year" type of promotion to get visitors in. 3. They have ignored their roots. For a company as rich in history as Cedar Fair, it sure was an unceremonious closing. I would have thought that they would have a little more appreciation for one of the few parks (and it's old attractions) that survived the Great Depression, WWII, the advent of television, the suburban flight, and the bottoming out of the industry. To see it go for the reasons it did disheartens me, and to think that a true piece of Americana (that could have been profitable) will be cleared to make way for condos or another soulless shopping center sickens me. The question of where were the people when it was open is already answered. They were there at the park all year (all half million or so), and there were enough of them to keep the place open. Geauga Lake, as it has been before, was a victim of mismanagement, overdevelopment and overspending. Six Flags did it during their ownership, and so did Cedar Fair, for when they bought Paramount Parks and took a couple of billion in debt, Geauga's fate was sealed in their eyes. I don't buy the end of the season decision, it was probably made at the end of the '06 season, and they can say that Geauga Lake still exists because of the waterpark, but it doesn't. What exists now is a shiny new waterpark that used to be part of a great old amusement park. I now see absolutely no need to visit Geauga Lake, and neither does anyone else within 30 miles. I love Cedar Point and Kings Island, but the company management seems to have become a bunch of businessmen instead of entertainers. I guess it comes with the territory of having to keep that stock price up. I'll be at these parks next year because they are great places, but to say I am happy with Cedar Fair about the closing of Geauga Lake just would not be the truth. I'm also 120 miles away. I can only imagine what the longtime local residents and fans think about it.

Whoever said Great America was losing money? If the park is profitable, it makes zero sense to sell. There is a long term lease with the city, and only the locals could really change something like that. I think it's funny that the other party just mentions how they would buy the park to get it out of the way. I'm not sure that taxpayers who are uncertain about a stadium in the first place, would like the team buying and then tearing down the park. For one, they may actually like the park, and two, it would probably be the local money going to such a project. The land isn't Cedar Fair's to sell from what I understand, so they would benefit very little from closing Great America. In fact, coming out and saying that they are opposed to the stadium says something. Sounds like a parking issue.

They are upcharging for Halloween next year, but delivering a more intense event....I'll believe that when I see it. What exactly are they going to do that's any different than past events? Probably very little. This is just another financial move to recoup the extra costs that go into a Halloween event and to maximize profit so they can pull themselves out of the hole. The assembly of props, sets, and the extra staffing as characters all come with a price tag for the park. The cost of these events is higher, although I don't remember there ever remotely being a shortage of guests at Fearfest. As far as the last rides at Geauga Lake go... Offering a bonus for employees to stay throughout the year is the incentive, and to those in management, many in management could bid for relocation or have a nice fat bonus of their own at the end. I'll bet all the money in the world that Geauga Lake's attendance would have skyrocketed for 2008 if they had at least kept the park side open another year and made a last year announcement. The park would have profited handsomely and the people would have come. The park has been around for 120 years. It has been there since the beginning of the Amusement park business. It was a survivor of the depression, both World Wars, and the bottoming out of the industry when hundreds of parks went out of business. It should have been cared for better, and the fact that it's closing because the previous two owners have driven it into the ground with poor business choices is sad. A previous post hit it on the nose with branding. The parks should maintain their own reputation and bring their own unique offering to the table. Six Flags is a prime example. Everyone used to talk about how bad Magic Mountain was, or how crappy Great America or Great Adventure was. Pretty soon there was talk about how every Six Flags park was bad. The truth is that some pretty good parks still managed to exist under the old Six Flags guard (Fiesta Texas, St. Louis, Over Texas) and were never talked about because there was so much bad press. Not that Cedar Fair would run their parks as poorly as Magic Mountain was ran, but it's good to keep them separate, especially if they are going to be regional draws rather than national ones.

Although I heavily disagree with the way Cedar Fair handled Geauga Lake, I won't let that get in the way of this discussion because like it or not, time and business goes on. I'll say this and then I'll move on If I had it my way, GL would remain open and be reworked in a way to keep the rides side open. Their reputation has taken a hit in my eyes, primarily because I have a particular fondness for old classic parks, and I believe that the local amusement park is something that needs to stick around. The place wasn't finished, and they gave up on it for a few reasons I won't go on about... That and the fact that they gave no closing notice or final oppurtunity for the town that called the park their own for 120 years to visit really bothers me about the whole thing. I don't even want to think about what will probably be built there. OK on to the topic at hand... I don't really think that brand awareness of a parent company such as Cedar Fair is necessary. I agree with the previous posts stating that the GP for the most part has no idea who Cedar Fair is. Who they do know exists is Cedar Point, Kings Island, Kings Dominion, Knotts...and all the other parks in the chain. There is no real benefit to making the name Cedar Fair known, but there is huge benefit in making the park names and their specific "brands" known. The more effective marketing decision here would have been to have jackets with each individual park name on it, with passholders getting the park jacket corresponding to their home park. The reason is because these jackets would have A) Given the passholder more connection and perhaps feeling of ownership with the park and It would have been free advertising. Cedar Fair doesn't need to advertise Cedar Fair, they need to advertise the individual parks, especially the smaller ones who don't have the reputation of Kings Island and Cedar Point. Those two parks market themselves, but Michigans Adventure, Valleyfair, and Worlds of Fun are lesser known places to the immediate town they are in, and if they want to build attendance in these parks outside the 50 or so mile radius, than doing the park jacket instead of the company jacket would have been the better option. If (and I say if because I have a hard time believing the million dollar leadership in corporate let the decision come down to this) it was a purely financial decision to go with Cedar Fair jackets because it was a little cheaper to have them made, than it seems to me that they haven't saved any money, but rather wasted what money they spent on a weaker marketing campaign. There is a line to be drawn when it comes to cost cutting. If you are going to cut costs, than do so without sacrificing quality and effectiveness, and don't nickel and dime a large marketing/advertising campaign, because many times the message becomes lost. I can't say that I agree with the concept of branding with parks that should remain somewhat unique. All of that being said, it is a pretty cool gesture for the company to offer passholders something for their continued business. They could have given nothing at all.

Great America has put out a "teaser" for a new ride...with a picture of a top spin. Looks like Texas Twister may be going to California. Head Spin was rumored to go to Carowinds. Actually it's a bit lame to be moving a crusty boomerang IMHO. Scrap it and SAVE THE BIG DIPPER.

I for one hope that we get the Big Dipper from GL...If we don't, than I hope another park will.

Thats almost true. I was there in mid July amongst the rain, and they had almost every coaster closed at one time or another. It was pretty much a drizzle, so some coasters they kept open. Millennium Force ran through the rain, Mean Streak also did (on an annoying one train operation...something the ride op told me happens in the rain). All of the launch coasters (including Maverick) were intermittently down, and most of the steel ones were as well. The swingers and spin and pukes were up, but it really does put a bummer on CP when it rains because well...they have so many rides that close when it rains. Safety is obviously the first priority here, so I can't argue too much with them. They did wait until it was a good hard steady rain to shut rides down. Perhaps the reason that Firehawk gets closed quickly is because of the extensive circuitry on the train that operates the seats. I know that flyers have such setups on the back of the train, but I don't know if it's totally protected from the rain. Even so, I have noticed a few differences in park policy between the Cedar Fair parks. I guess we just should figure out what to expect untill they get everything integrated.

Speaking as a huge fan and observer of the amusement park industry and a Kings Island customer since the age of 1 for the past 25 years.... I for one am still happy that Kings Island is now owned by Cedar Fair. The quality of all the CF parks...big and small, have always been top notch during my attendance. I'll give the eco crew kudos, the park is spotless. It was clean before Cedar Fair, but I have noticed even more difference this year. Most of the employees I have encountered this year have been nothing but friendly and professional. However.... Having been in supervisory positions within my own industry, its not too difficult to tell which employees are unhappy or don't care about their job. Why? because it comes out in the work they do. I've had an experience or two with the type this year at the park, and those are the employees that give any business a bad name. As said before, the customer doesn't really take into concern the feelings of an associate, and they really don't have to either. The hard working mothers and fathers, as well as many other people, shell out hundreds for tickets, expensive food and drink, a five dollar bucket of rings to throw for the privilege of carrying a 6 foot stuffed animal around in the 90 degree heat, and gifts to remember their day by...if they had a good time. This is their day off and they have worked hard to spend this money (which many teenagers really don't know the value of....some of which probably work at KI). They graced Kings Island with their presence and their wallet, and it's your job to give them the best day possible. You do that by putting your cell phone down, being nice and entertaining and providing the best service. Is your job tough?? absolutely... It's thankless, the hours are long, and the work isn't the greatest sometimes, but it's your job nonetheless. Some of you get paid minimum wage, but would you rather get paid that elsewhere? If you would, than quit....please quit, because it's the employees who act like they don't want to be there and treat people as such who ruin the experience for the hard working customer. Job perks are nice, but this isn't the executive board. Don't expect things to be handed out because the previous management (who incidently was running the park into the ground financially and otherwise) gave them to you. If the new management has new rules, than follow them. You may not like them, and some of them may even be unnecessary, but be professional. At the same time, park brass should take care of their people. Some of you were probably in the trenches at one time. Managers, please remember that it's the little people in ride ops, food stalls, and gift shops among others, that make Kings Island work. Just as you provide the leadership, the park would cease to run without the hard working associates. I have no idea what the new and old rules are for employees, but if the water rule is true, than let the people drink water. It really isn't that big of a deal for me as a customer to see an associate have a drink in the hot sun. As a matter of fact, as a customer I would rather have that than them being unpleasant or sick in the heat. They work hard for that minimum wage, and a happy associate is a productive one. I do want to thank all of those hard working associates and managers for making every one of my experiences at KI great. In 25 years I can't say I, or any of my friends or family for that matter... really ever had a bad day at the park. Some were better than others, but I'm still coming for a reason. I have every bit of faith that Kings Island will keep getting better for years to come under the current ownership. Keep up the good work

I think that one of the big reasons for attendance being down is that Cedar Fair has indeed stopped giving away the gate. I went to one of the KI passholders days (the ones where the park gave each passholder eight free tickets to distribute) a couple of years ago. I thought to myself as I was wading through the sea of people there with the 16 unpaying friends and family I got in, Why did they give away so many tickets? Yeah they got a boost in attendance (had to be 30,000 there at least), but they gave away most of that money by charging customers nothing to get in and running up their operating costs with all the rides and staffing. In theory, more customers means more money spent in the park, but I wonder just how worth it for the park that day was. A great marketing tool? sure...if nobody had ever heard of Kings Island before. I just always wondered why they were so content to do things like that. Cedar Fair is a completely different business model. Having said that, let's not forget that the company has their work cut out for them. They went in debt almost up to their eyeballs to get the Paramount parks, they got stuck cleaning up messes like SOB, and they now have to "deparamountize" the park, which means a lot more work, and they have to do all of that while making a profit. Working at an amusement park can be a tough job, and some employees are obviously disgruntled, but it sounds like they aren't helping matters when I hear things like employees treating guests as a nuisance. I've been annoyed a little by a few employees at KI this year too. The thing is, when I go to Cedar Point, employees just aren't like that. Ride operators are friendly and entertaining, hotel staff has always been friendly, and the food service workers do their jobs without complaining. I've observed one crappy associate in the ten years I've gone up north. They are operating under the same policies there as hosts now do at Kings Island, so what's different? I'm certainly not saying that all employees at KI are bad. Nothing could be further from the truth, but I've heard more comments this season on lack of customer service at KI than I have in years. There is a little fixing to do.

Regardless of whether or not he was new to the park, any reporter (or any poster to any site IMHO) that's employed by the press or some media at least has the responsibility to state factual information in their story. For all of us who knew SOB was down, there were still those out there who obviously didn't know that. The fact that he didn't know the whole story doesn't excuse him from just writing whatever he wanted instead of doing a small shred of research and simply stating the fact that SOB had been closed for quite some time due to that accident, as I'm sure park personnel probably told him. I'm not discounting the fact that he was unhappy, but instead of responsibly reviewing and reporting, he filled in the blanks with things like "that spinny thing", and the whole SOB rant. KI's reponse wasn't the greatest to say the least, but I'm taking this guys story with a grain of salt, because I think he told his version of the story with a little spin Another thing, what's with all the hatred of Cedar Fair all of the sudden. Will you never be happy with who runs this park? About the guest relations at Cedar Point, they are in the administration building, which happens to be right in the middle of the park. They have a small office near the front gate, which I had to go to sign in as a KI maxx pass holder. The reason it's there is because there are FOUR entrances to the park...one in the front, one in the back, one by the marina (west), and one by wicked twister (east). What's the big deal about GR being there? which incidentally is right by the main corporate offices of the company. Kings Island has one entrance, so GR belongs there, but it's a bit silly to think that CP is hiding their GR department so nobody will find it. I've never had a real problem with any of the Cedar Fair parks. I've been annoyed by a ride closure here and there and been annoyed several times at some of the guests, but I've never had a horrible time at a Cedar Fair park, and I've never felt compelled to complain about them to GR. I don't usually bother with suggestions or comments, because I know that there are probably thousands of them, and it's a bit unrealistic to expect a response most of the time. It's nice when they do, but I would rather them take care of the customers who have problems than acknowledge my existence with a standard copy response. GR is there to remedy problems first, then if they have the time (or manpower...which they probably don't), they can answer my comment/suggestion.

Their season pass integration has been overly complicated to say the least. My wife and I purchased '07 maxx passes last year from KI and got the temp cards. We were renewing from Gold '06. I can't say that we've ever had a problem with parking or anything like that, but another little strange quirk. If you go to Cedar Point with your Kings Island maxx pass, it doesn't swipe at the entrance booth. You have to go next door, sign in, have your hand stamped, and then go through the turnstiles. It's not really that big of a deal, but it's a little example of how things have been overcomplicated. I think that the former Paramount parks still have their little system, and the Cedar Fair parks have their little system, and they haven't properly integrated them yet. The ticket takers haven't been properly educated about the whole thing. The parking thing should be like this for every park. You get free parking at your home park, and you have an option to upgrade to free parking at all parks. They did the Ohio thing because they knew that the majority of maxx pass holders were from Ohio and they would use the pass at all three Ohio parks, but just make it simple and do all parks. Educate the people that the park they are buying the pass from will be considered their home park, and there won't be any confusion about the parking. If they buy the pass at Geauga Lake, they get free parking there. You could even institute an option for the guest as to which park they want to consider their home park so they get the choice of where they want the free parking. Keep things like the Joe Cool club, but perhaps institute them at all Cedar Fair parks. They have a little work to do in the admissions department.

This just goes to show how much a little PR can do to a park. Customers tend to overstate how unhappy they are and understate how happy they are on trip reports, or any kind of consumer review for that matter. In this day of the internet, theme park goers have free reign to paint a particular theme park or their management any way they want to, regardless of whether the writer is right or wrong. There are plenty of variables in this story that were passed over or maybe even ignored for effect. The park statement mentioned something about a power spike. Did it affect all the rides down? The way he tells the story, it sounds like all of these rides are closed at once. As a season passholder, I've never seen that many down at once for a whole day, which makes me think that there was a rash of breakdowns. Were the rides back up before the end of the evening? I imagine that at least some of them were. Simply walking by and seeing it closed is something that many a parkgoers do, but that's why you ask the ride op at the front of the Q. Did he just breeze by and see the closed sign? Tomb Raider is almost always closed now (retheming perhaps?) Drop Zone has been under a microscope since the accident at Kentucky Kingdom. White Water Canyon closing is just plain weird, so I wonder about a "power spike". How did he act when he asked for his freebies? Being in retail, I always want the customer to be satisfied, but if they are nasty about it and do things like threaten, than they aren't going to get very far. I'm not saying that this happened, but what I am saying is that a internet blogger/writer can write whatever they want and paint the picture they want to paint. Did this particular writer spin things the way he wanted to? possibly. The quote about Son of Beast is inaccurate, given the accident happened last year. It was added for effect. If he didn't add it for effect, he didn't do his homework (see that spinny one) and practiced what is called irresponsible journalism. Given that he seems to be employed by the site (or at least a major contributor) it's a little testimony of just how much a story can be spun for the unknowing public by a member of the media...now the other side of the coin. The guy was unhappy. He shelled out a lot of money for him and his family to have a good time and he came on a day when the park was having some ride issues. They could have taken care of the matter by giving him some free tickets, or jumping him to the front of some lines when the rides were back up and buying them dinner. I realize that you can't reimburse everyone if they had a bad time. If you did, there would be a rash of leeches that would want compensated for a bad half an hour, but you turn people away at your own risk. Free tickets would have gotten them back into the park for another day to spend more money and give KI a chance to make customers for life, and it's not like the park hasn't given thousands of tickets away to passholders for their friends on certain days. Some kind of secret front of the line pass would have helped them walk away that day satisfied and vindicated the park. It's not like he just came up and said "I had a bad day, I want my money back". He had a reason...that being a bunch of rides were closed...something that falls under park responsibility. They could have somehow diffused the situation and fixed the problem, but evidently they chose not to, and now they have to deal with bad publicity. Perhaps some tweaking of guest relations is in order, because they don't need this kind of story. The park portrayed in this story isn't the great place I know and love, and it's ultimately their own fault that it isn't.

I hate assigned seats. I realize that lines have to move and all, but I'm a loyal, well paying customer. If I want to wait a few extra trains for the front seat, than I should be able to. Anyway, I was in on Sunday 7/30 and SOB was running in the morning/afternoon, but when I happened by the ride in the early evening it was closed. I tried to ask the guy manning the entrance to the queue what was up, but he was too busy talking to a couple of girly girls to answer me.

You are kidding yourself if you think that even the biggest stuffed animal they give away costs the park much more than my previous estimate. The "profit margin" if you will...is hundreds of percent. There are some other prizes that cost the park a lot more to put on the rack, but they are the ones that are near impossible to win. The prizes are won eventually, but not before dozens of guests have paid for the prize many times over by trying to win it. Games are huge money makers for amusement parks for this exact reason. Are the games fun? sure they are. If they weren't, than nobody would play them. The beauty of park games is that when the guest wins, they are happy, and the park profits handsomely. If the guest loses....they usually at least try again, and the park still profits handsomely.

spending 20 bucks or more just to win a 50 cent (or less) stuffed animal....and we wonder where all of our money goes in America.

Branson, MO is indeed a huge tourist spot. Billions have and continue to be been invested in hotels, condos, shopping, and attractions over the last several years. I was there last year and while most of the down home country/gospel style shows and such aren't my cup of tea, there is no doubt that people flock here. My personal favorites were Silver Dollar City (local theme park...one of the best I've been to), and the Table Rock Lake area. The bottom line is that this area is ever expanding, and it is a viable area for any kind of theme/amusement park project. The closest Disney park is about 1500 or so miles from Branson, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney's name on a sign somewhere soon, although I do have my doubts.

The reasoning behind the temp passes last year (at least when I got mine), was that Kings Island didn't yet have the non Paramount logos with which to print the 2007 passes. At least that's what I was told. Given that the new park logos weren't around until the wintertime, I can understand. Even so, anyone who's waiting on opening day to process has to know that there will be a line, along with monkeywrenches that are present during every opening day. One could have also used their temp pass to get in if they were that excited, and then cashed in during the day sometime.

would the seat belts really make that much of a difference in load time? There are some inept people out there, but surely they can figure out a seatbelt. It takes no time to check them as you are checking the actual restraints. Cedar Fair is overly cautious with rider safety, so the height requirement changes and seat belts don't come as a suprise to me.

Taking bets on how long this will last on youtube.... Do appreciate the post though. Thanks for sharing.

whatever trains they decide to go with, they need to be padded...heavily. PKI Brass....GCI millennium flyers please....for the sake of my knees and the sake of your ride's popularity. Retracking the ride for them is worth it.

That wouldn't be the greatest if the Myrtle Beach rumor was true. Those trains were mildly uncomfortable at best on the Hurricane. I shudder to think what they would be like on SOB. I suppose the problem is compatiblilty. If the track gauge is indeed bigger than normal, than trains like the Millennium Flyers (the ones they should have), won't work unless modified. I think it would be worth the money to get those babies on the track...they are so comfortable. Ridership would multiply if it happened.

I doubt that many of the major chains threw their hat in the ring. Six Flags isn't in the position to buy, Busch is thinking about selling, Disney won't touch anything seasonal, Universal won't either. I think that the other major bidder was probably the PARC Corporation, the group of former amusement execs that just bought seven Six Flags parks. There probably were a couple more, but it only makes sense. They seem to be the only other company making big moves in the industry.

It's true that with company backing, Paramount could have dropped some serious money into their parks, but the reason they didn't is because they thought that park income wouldn't justify it. Kings Island is open about 5 months out of the year, had no real stake in any hotels, and turns a somewhat modest profit. Despite the fact that PKI's and other parks financial position could have been vastly improved with Viacom's deep pockets and the right leaders, the suits weren't willing to even remotely gamble, and what could have been never happened. The truth is that there will never be theming at KI on the Universal/Disney scale because Cedar Fair does more than fine with the formula they have...which is this 1) Keep the thrills coming, 2)Keep the kids happy, 3)Build hotels, 4)Run a tight ship in operations/maintenance, 5)Merchandising....Merchandising....Merchandising. That formula generates lots of profit for them every year, and it will happen here as well.

The only way theming a ride ever works is if it's done properly. The only way to do it properly is to spend money. Going on the cheap with theming is a waste of money because it doesn't create a totally immersive realistic environment and the riders see right through it. That's why Disaster Transport was a failure. It wasn't because people didn't like theming, it was because the theming was done poorly and on the cheap. A few projectors and some neon painted boxes just doesn't cut it. I'm sure that some park execs think that the ride would have been just fine if it would have stayed Avalanche Run. Italian Job could have been a great themed ride if 1) the track was longer, 2) they enclosed the parking garage section and made it realistic, 3) all the train effects worked, and 4) if they had more set pieces and props. The fact is that PKI didn't spend the money to do that....probably because they don't have that kind of money. Seasonal operations balk at spending tens of millions on themed rides because quite honestly they don't generate the kind of attendance or revenue annually to pay that kind of money. Cedar Fair can dress up landscapes and buildings with the best of them, but they stay out of theming, and it should be that way if they don't want to spend the money