The Forsaken

Some of you don't understand PR/marketing. I truly do not think Don is tweeting to directly throw off KIC members. Not at all. You must understand, he's tweeting to everybody...casual fans and park guest, other parks management (I'm sure they're excited as well), news/media outlets, enthusiasts and the like...It's not just for KIC. Good marketing covers all your bases. So, with that conclusion...I believe Don is being very CLEAR in his post. This is without a doubt a wing coaster. The point of hinting "wing it" in a tweet should be extremely obvious to enthusiasts and KIC members...but the general public may not "get it". Any tease/hint worth doing must be able to be solved by the general public. I believe that's who it's intended for. I highly doubt the park is even thinking of KIC at the moment when it comes to teases, marketing, etc. etc. Marketing 101 people...the casual shopper pays the bills, market accordingly. The only questions left answering should be the name of the ride, the colors, the specs, the layout, the records it will break, etc. But this is a wing coaster, Don has made that clear. -T. Forsaken

But KI/Don has made mention that this ride is "dark" in tone and nature...so, it would make absolute sense for KI to use the scary reputation associated with The Bat and harness that to build a ride that people may actually be scared to ride. This is the exact concept haunted attractions use when creating there shows. Sounds perfect to me. KI has a small reputation with dangerous rides...why not just use that and create a terrifying (but extremely safe and reliable) ride and name it after a past ride from said reputation. Brilliant theme park planning and marketing. -T. Forsaken

For trademark purposes would "bat" be the same as "The Bat"? I'd say yes and Lagoon would have a winnable suit against Cedar Fair. If this is the case...then DC Comics would have a case against Lagoon park. So on and so on...

I also don't think "BAT" can be trademarked or copyrighted as it's name is to common. Like, I cannot trademark the word pizza or balloon. Same applies to bat. So, maybe a trademark may not even be needed for the name itself. However, one may be needed for the use of the name on any promotional, merchandising, etc. Say, the use of the typeface and colors...that's how to get around that. Just a note for the overly confused! -T. Forsaken

No. There would have to be a Canadian trademark applied and owned by CF. There's no "global" trademark. -T. Forsaken

You wouldn't need 200' of land to go 200' in the air. Just a thought. -T. Forsaken

Well, I'd have to disagree I guess. Knott's also has every opurtunity to use popular IP's just as Universal can...if that's what the fans want then why not do that? I do believe Knott's (although they are starting to work on this) cannot compete with Universal's creativity when it comes to original characters/monsters, stories, costumes/makeup, brand usage and marketing. I will forever be on the HHN bandwagon, and this is coming from a former Cedar Fair employee. -TF PS: Universal's Classic Monster are technically still original IP's, right?

Agreed. Universal's HHN beat them to the punch. The problem here, with CF's HH team, is that they admit to looking at current books, movies, games, etc. etc. for inspiration. To me, this just means they're ALWAYS late to the party. Why get ideas from something already done? They should be leading the pack with original, new ideas that inspire other haunt events. My guess, CF see's HH as a cash grab yet none of the single events will ever compete with the money that a single HHN brings in. They'll learn some day. -TF

I'm kinda glad to see Massacre Manor gone. It's literally been there since what, 2001? 2002? It's an outdated haunt designed by Leonard Pickel at http://hauntrepreneurs.com/ Years ago he had a company called Elm Street Productions/Entertainment and sold haunt "packages" to events. The packages included: Mansion style theme haunt, chainlink maze (prison themed) and a gothic style/crypt-like haunt. It's my firm belief that KI purchased a package from said company after Lynton V. Harris of Sudden Impact Entertainment Group left after the initial year. Needless to say these haunts are so far outdated that it's embarassing. Crowds are growing more "haunt savy" via the internet (and yes, general KI visitors) with the populartiy of Universal's Halloween Horror Nights. KI has SUCH potential at producing a mind-blowing event. The problem here is Cedar Fair. CF cookie-cuts across the board. The only unique Halloween Haunt brand is at Knott's; the rest are knock-offs, failed attempts or shared ideas and products. Shame. Universal has it figured out. I predict that the "new mazes" will most likely just be re-branding of old ones. It's sad. CF needs to allow each park to do HH as THEY see fit. Each park needs it's own haunt team (new people, EXPERIENCED haunted house industry people, full time) and it's own budget. Until that happens you can always count on the lackluster creativety coming from KI's Halloween Haunt. ...doesn't mean it's not fun though. It's bitter-sweet. -The Forsaken.

BB1, You hit the nail on the head. I won't talk from my experience, but I've designed several haunts in my past. KI has the foundation, I just think the desire isn't there; which could be a management thing as I feel a lot of the creative aspect is outsourced to Knotts. Shame.

KI's track record of haunts, period, is stale. Not since it's first year (the Lynton V. Harris shows) have really themed out and creative haunts been at the parks. The main problem they have is time, budget and people. Not enough time, budget or skilled labor (experienced HAUNT creators/designers, not people studied in theater) to pull off a top-notch show. Which is a shame because KI's setting, location and natural ambience could lend itself to a truly horrific and legandary haunt. KI has the potential of being the HHN of the north...but like Matt said...I won't hold my breathe. -T. Forsaken

The indoor haunts that aren't accessible to the public should already be started with their construction, if they weren't left up from previous seasons. The outdoor haunts that take up a lot of public area will not start until late August, maybe even September. Most of those shows are just walls (easily assembled) and prop/scenic stuff that can be forklifted in and just dropped into place.

If true, that this is an invert, this would make the third coaster in this area where riders are below the track. To me, this doesn't sound like it's been thought through enough. Personally, I'm hoping for a floorless or a B&M giga. I'd hate to see another suspended type coaster in this area. -T. Forsaken

Tanna, just a note. Fog/smoke used in film production is not the same as what comes out of a fog machine. A lot of times what's used is a odorless, tasteless, non-toxic chemical whose fumes make the fog. However, ANY fog in heavy amounts will severely dry out contact lenses, almost instantly. Most on set fog comes from "bee smokers"...which is known to "mess" with some people. Oil based fog however is corrosive. Terp, if expense/hassle of something as simple as fog is an issue...I'd hate to see what happens to other issues. Just thinking out loud... Happy Haunting...

If you're using oil based (old school) fog machines and fog juice...then yes, it 'can' be corrosive. However, there are NEW brands of fog from companies like Froggy's Fog who produces THICK, long lasting fog that is non-toxic, non-corrosive and most importantly, NON-ALERGENIC! lol. If an entertainment venue is having problems like this then they are living/operating in the past and need to upgrade. Just saying... Happy Haunting...

Maintenance...you're refrencing the up keep of fog machines. Correct? This is extremely easy and any proper person can maintain one easily. In fact, one cleaning method that A LOT of haunts use is simple mix of white distilled vinegar and water ran through the machine...completely cleans the unit AND "de-gums" it for future use. Happy Haunting...

Heat sensors. Obviously, heavy fog will easily trip smoke detection in any establishment. Common practice in the haunted attraction industry is to use heat detection in place of smoke detection. Obviously nothing in the haunts (or any themed facility) should get hot as fire unless it's used as an effect. Just some thought... PS: Thank you.

You know, a great fix for the age thing would to charge extra for HH. Just like KI did in the beginning days of Fearfest, clear out the park and start a new each night for haunt. I mean, I haven't seen as many "kids" at HHN like I've seen at Haunt. Just sayin'...I know this may NEVER happen and I know it's been discussed before. But just a thought... Happy Haunting...

I am with RingMaster on this one...given KI's history in new attractions I do NOT have my hopes up for this one. However, I'm open minded and I cross my fingers that I will be very surprised. I also agree with some thoughts on pop-out scares; they are scary. Period. BUT, the redunancy of reptiveness could kill this type of scare. Here's what will happen...a couple of actors will do this and get some AWESOME scares. The other actors WILL take note and start to mimic the technique...all of a sudden the entire attraction is just pop-out scares and the fright factor is lost. Trust me, I know exactly what I'm talking about. What I hope to see is some actors as wax figures, museum attendants, "customer" plants, a couple "pop-outs" and some general "stand and stare" creepiness. Would be awesome to see some tight scripted dialogue and character acting, given the whole "gypsy" vibe that I'm getting. This could also be an attraction to really take advantage of some cool lighting/sound/fog/scent effects given it's location. So...I'll keep my fingers crossed, but not to tight. Happy Haunting...