boyland Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Well to my great disappointment this weekend I was told by the park staff this is not a rumor the campground is closing in 8 weeks forever. They have no plans to build a new one from what the staff was telling me. I cannot understand the park mgmt, I have tried 3 times this year to get in the campground to only be told it is full. The nationwide trend is camping is growing a a dramatic rate and most campgrounds are extremely profitable. What in the world is going on here. Myself and many other will not be buying season passes next year since we will have no place to park our motorhome. If you feel like me that is a bad decision by the park please write or call the park mgmt. Blaine Boyland Lebanon, IN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialk141 Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 well, reports lately have been that the Great Wolf Lodge company is lookign to build a major resort/indoor waterpark on the site of the cuurent campground. speculation, or actually i guess its just suggestion has been to move the campground out towards boomerang bay somewhere so those of us regulars at the campground can still enjoy it. i guess we will jus have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIBeast Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infogirl Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 ye of little faith the camp ground will be moved and have better cabins and other perks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZosoBeast Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Who cares? I was a member of PKIU for a couple of months until I found out how rude %50 of the people over there are! Then I found out about this site and I knew I had a new home. It really disappoints me to find such a comment made by someone on this forum who had been here long enough to know better...very sad. On topic, I am sad to see this place go and I will be camping there over Labor Day weekend one last time. I am excited, however, to see what the future hold for the piece of land. It is cool looking down into it while riding Top Gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infogirl Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 the new camp ground area is going to be very cool . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Who cares? You would be extremely surprised if only you knew how popular the campground is. So a comment like that is totally inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdude316 Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Who cares? You would be extremely surprised if only you knew how popular the campground is. So a comment like that is totally inappropriate. I agree totally here. I'm of the kind of mind that if you don't have anything constructive to say you shouldn't say anything at all. Now back on topic, I'm kind of sad to see the campgrounds go. I never actually stayed there, but I really wanted to try within the next couple years. Now with this hotel moving in, I know I'll never be able to afford a room there (at least not in the near future). However, maybe this new hotel will cause PKI to reopen Winterfest, since the hotel has the potential to draw people year round. We'll just have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyland Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 Infogirl do you know this or hope this? I like thousands of others enjoy the campground multiple times a year. Actually my family goes about 4 weekends a year and has for the last 6 years. We are extremely sad and little angry over the decision. I hope if enough folks talk to the mgmt they will see the error in the decision and at least plan a new campground for next year. The camping experience is part of the PKI experience and really is not boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 I have a feeling that Viacom will probably reap as much (if not more) of a profit by leasing the land to the Great Lakes Company as they would operating the campground themeselves. It also wouldn't surprise me that if as the "landlord" they were getting a percentage of revenue. (Plus, they can save the headaches of having to manage the actual operations...) It really comes down to the best value return for the land. There's one thing that confuses me, though...if PKI is planning on building a new improved campground, why not just build the Great Wolf Lodge on the land where the new campground would go, and improve the existing camp ground? It seems like it would be much more efficient to dramatically improve the existing infrastructure, then it would be to start from a clean slate (similar to the whole Water Works to CDBB scenario...) Joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyland Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 Here is my thoughts on the cost/income item. 1. Granted the land might make more money per square foot with the lodge but will the new lodge bring in new guests or just transfer guest from existing hotels? I would bet that the lodge would mostly transfer guests from existing hotels to the new lodge thus not bring new guests to the park. I would guess that the attendance would increase the first year and then return to normal. 2. Will the lodge increase season passes? I doubt it the cost of a lodge stay plus season passes for a family of four would run over $600. Most people will visit for a day or two. 3. Will losing the campground keep people from coming to the park? Yes camping people will not come if they are forced to stay somewhere else then drive to the park. The benefits of camping include coming to the park and returning to the campsite to relax. If that is the case most people will go somewhere else like CP or KK. 4. Will there be a difference in season pass holders? Well just in a short survey this last weekend I spoke with different folks in the campground I seemed like 60%-70% of them held season passes. I am not sure of an exact number but the campground staff said the number was large and most indicated they would not buy a season pass if there was not a campground. So the overall financial impact will not just include the actual campground it will be felt in attendance, season pass holders, and overall guests. I think they have way under estimated the financial impact a 300 site campground can have. Especially since they have put so little in the campground during the last few years. it has been pretty much total profit for them. Please post your opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianchef Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Ideallistically speaking, it would be best to have both a campground and a hotel. Each of these two choices appeal to different target markets. The latter requires more disposable income than the former. We will have to wait and see what happens. Have a great day! Italian Chef :chef: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knoxville Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 The campground makes way to much money just to be thrown away, it will most likely be moved to another location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonLord Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 The new resort will bring in more money than the campground does, not to mention more people. It's more than just a resort, but also a conference center and it will be open 365 days a year, unlike the camp ground. I do keep hoping (and sometimes hearing) that the campground will be moved farther back into the woods (maybe) or next to BB. None the less, you know if the park does rebuild the campground, it will be bigger and better with more things for the kids to do and better hookups for the RVs and more camp sites. Maybe it too will stay open 365 days a year? Maybe it will be moved down by the river and we can add in some rafting and maybe fishing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlopez Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 The campground makes way to much money just to be thrown away, it will most likely be moved to another location. I sure hope so. I will be very disappointed if it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialk141 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 300 undeveloped acres is a lot.... lets not forget that. PKI has plenty of room for a new campground on the other side of hte park. i guess we shall just have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIBeast Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Oooooooooh! Sorry for having an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdude316 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Oooooooooh! Sorry for having an opinion. It's not that you have an opinion, that's fine. However, you phrased it in a rude and condescending manner. That is what people are upset about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIBeast Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 If it is true that the campground will be replaced with a lodge, then everyone should be happy for PKI. They will finally have a place, on premises, to stay that isn't a campground. Wow, that's really horrible. How dare they improve your stay at King's Island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyland Posted August 3, 2004 Author Share Posted August 3, 2004 Dane- I hope you have had enough of PKIBEAST. He has added nothing but rude and useless comments. I wish you could remove him from this post as it is useless for him to post here. Regarding his comments: If you actually visit the park you will find: http://www.kingsislandresort.com/ across the street which also provides free transportation. The reason this topic was started was to provide the public with information regarding a major change/shift in PKI's direction. I had hoped that many folks would care enough to contact the park and express their opinions not post ridiculous comments here. I had also hoped that someone a little closer to the issue might be able to provide some useful insight on the decision as well as provide any information that a new camping facility was planned either PKI or private. I know there are many families that will be directly affected by this decision and the more that know the more that will express their opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Dane- I hope you have had enough of PKIBEAST. He has added nothing but rude and useless comments. I wish you could remove him from this post as it is useless for him to post here. He has been spoken to about it. And please, if you have a problem with a user, please use the "Report" button and we will do what we seem fit. Stylish new CDBB inspired "Report" button: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIBeast Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 What I am saying is that sometimes, things are removed or moved in the name of progress. I know of many people that have complained for years that there is no place to stay on premises, not across the street or up the block. I would book a room every year if there was a hotel on site. I don't want to be bothered with having to catch a ride across the street...I want to be able to walk back and forth to my room without needing to wait on a scheduled ride. PKI is going to do what the General Public is asking for...obviously the GP wants a hotel on premises or they wouldn't be building one. It also means more money for PKI. You can make a lot more money off hotel rooms than you can renting camping sites. Anyone can enjoy a hotel, not everyone can utilize the campgrounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 You are thinking it will PKI's and it's not, it's just the land it will sit on is PKI's. The cost to stay will be so high most of us will never stay there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyland Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 PKIBeast if you stayed at the campground you would know that walking back and forth is not an option for must folks. We do walk most of the time but I can tell you we are the exception most people would not, it is quite a walk. I have suggested for years that make a special entrance to the park from the campground by Top gun but the increased security made this nearly impossible. Just an observation, I doubt someone paying $200 a night is going to want to walk 15 minutes back and forth in 90 degree weather. Especially since the camping type of folks already does not do that. So they would be taking basically the same transportation system just like across the street. So I believe having the hotel their is not because they want it to be onsite but because there is something about the campground land is in Mason and the remainder of the park is not and they have some large tax incentive plan. I would seem to make since to put the new hotel on some of the undeveloped 300 acres and leave the campground in place. This is not progress just political posturing. I can tell you that I have received some communication that the park is reevaluating the financial impact of losing the campground. I guess they were only looking at the campground income and failed to realize the season pass impact as well as the single day ticket impact. With those numbers the impact is in the millions not just the slight income loss of the campground. So I guess they are going to do something but who knows? I do not think something should stand in the way of progress but there is certainly other options available that would allow both areas to exist it does not have to be one or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdude316 Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Just to let you all know I checked to see what one night with two adults would cost at the Great Bear Lodge in Sandusky. This night was from August 7th-8th (Saturday -Sunday), and the lowest price I could find was $259.00 per night. Thats' quite a chunk of change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIBeast Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Maybe most of you won't stay there, but I'm sure they will have no problem filling it up. Also, they may already have plans to get people from the lodge to the park. I like the way Cedar Point is set up. They have a few entrances thay you can use and offer the shuttle service as well. Even if PKI does not own the lodge, they'll make money off of renting the property to them. I still say more of the GP will utilize a hotel over a campground. If I'm not mistaken, there's more to this lodge than just rooms. So, it's not like you're paying $259.00 for just a room. So, how long of a walk are we talking here...5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes? I don't see how season pass sales have anything to do with it. People don't buy season passes based on their ability to stay at their campground. They buy them because they live close enough to frequent the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyland Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 Well you are quite wrong many people like myself that live 3 hours away want to stay at the campground. If we cannot we will not be buying season passes. I would say that is true for the majority of the season pass holders that utilize the campground. Someone took a survey at the campground a few weeks ago they turned it in to the park mgmt. It contained signatures of folks staying at the campground and asked if they owned season passes and would they continue to buy them if the campground was closed. I do not know the exact number but the campground staff said it was thousands would not buy passes if the campground was closed. It woke the mgmt up a bit. Sounds like you love CP which is great they also have a campground. They know the importance of having a campground, which they had before the lodge. They did not eliminate the campground to build the lodge they worked together to keep all guests involved. PKI seems to have an attitude much like yours which is more than likely why this may be the last year for many guest like myself. Which is very sad because I am willing to bet I visit more often, spend more money, and care more about the general well being of the park than these new phantom guest that you refer too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Maybe most of you won't stay there, but I'm sure they will have no problem filling it up. Also, they may already have plans to get people from the lodge to the park. I like the way Cedar Point is set up. They have a few entrances thay you can use and offer the shuttle service as well. Even if PKI does not own the lodge, they'll make money off of renting the property to them. I still say more of the GP will utilize a hotel over a campground. If I'm not mistaken, there's more to this lodge than just rooms. So, it's not like you're paying $259.00 for just a room. So, how long of a walk are we talking here...5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes? I don't see how season pass sales have anything to do with it. People don't buy season passes based on their ability to stay at their campground. They buy them because they live close enough to frequent the park. It's not only patrons from PKI. It's also the major conferences that it could attract. I mean, it would look great for a company it have a conference in Mason, and be able to bring the wife and kids along too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 I still say that the park will do what makes the most financial sense...if the camp ground generates more revenue for Viacom than leasing the land for Great Wolf does, then I have no doubt that the (or a) campground will stay in the picture. Obviously, there's a market for both campgrounds and hotels...otherwise so many destination resorts wouldn't include both in their accomodation mix. Personally, I never have any desire to camp anywhere...I'm a hotel/resort guy all the way. (The last time I went camping was my freshman year of college...and that was more about drinking beer around a camp fire than it was about the love of camping.) However, some people are "campers" and that's an important part of their vacation experiences. To each his own... And, luckily, the mixture of personal preferences is what creates the opportunities for places like PKI to capture a variety of revenue sources. Big picture, I think Great Wolf is a good idea. The conference facility will drive traffic to the local area year-round, as will the indoor waterpark. This gives off-season events (like Winterfest) a greater chance of success. Not to mention how great it would be to drive down from Columbus some January weekend to spend riding water slides! I think the comments made about how "no one" will stay there because it's too expensive are somewhat short sighted. Obviously, there's a market for the expensive hotel/waterpark facility. (There's two open in Sandusky, with another under construction, and a fourth in the planning stages.) Cincinnati is a much bigger market, and with its draw from surrounding metro areas that have no similar product (Dayton, Columbus, Indy, Louisville), I think the Lodge should do well. I worked in the hotel industry for over ten years...the company I worked for owned over 1,200 hotels ranging from a full-service brand that averaged $200 a night, to a budget brand that cost $40 (or less) a night. The whole portfolio held its own in occupancy & generated revenue. Granted, the various hotel brands attracted very different guests for very different reasons, but that's what makes capitalism great :-) Keep in mind, I'm NOT advocating dumping the campground...but, I think the merits of Great Wolf should not be overlooked as well. (Hopefully, there's some middle ground solution that will allow both to exist...) BTW...does anyone know if PKD or PC suffered any dramatic drops in revenue, attendance, or season pass sales after getting rid of their campgrounds? Joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIBeast Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Personally, I don't think that getting rid of the campground is a good enough reason to not buy a season pass. I live three hours away and am considering a season pass for next year. In these cases, with people living only three hours away, it is a day trip and the only money you still need is for gas and food. But, like what was said earlier, to each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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