Cedar Fair Boss Says Expansion Is On Hold

[The Interpreter]

http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stori....xml&coll=2

[WooferBearATL]

Our goal is to have the Hotel Breakers and Camper Village at Cedar Point cashless by 2010. You'll be able to walk into the hotels and get a key that will be your credit card and you'll be able to use it in some areas of the park and in the hotel.

Yes, has worked for the Gaylord Entertainment/Convention complexes for years.

We're trying to make it more convenient for them to come to the park and spend money.

Does anyone proof his comments before he makes them? How about saying, "We're trying to make it more convenient for guest to enjoy every aspect of our parks and properties."

If we had the money on the balance sheet, we have hotel opportunities at Kings Dominion and Carowinds and in Canada. We have plenty of land around all of those parks to make it into a resort community like Cedar Point.

Notice any parks missing from that statement? Seems like one is kinda an Island of it's own?

Yes, it really was. Plus, they're in the southern region. Charlotte is a high-growth area. Richmond is doing very well. We felt Santa Clara in California was an underutilized property. The one we were really surprised by was Canada's Wonderland. It's going to be a great property.

If they did not know the value of Canada's Wonderland, I seriously doubt their knowledge level in entering that transaction. Not certain if that is spin, but I certainly hope it is.

We take surveys every day in all of our parks. At the end of the year, we compare all of the parks. We ask leading questions that help us in our decision making. They'll let you know if they're paying too much or if they've had a bad day.

No, you ask leading questions to get the answers that you want to receive. You ask objective questions to get the answers to help you make decisions.

[DropZone99]

It would be cool if KI was a 'resort community' like Cedar Point, i cant really think of where they could put it. The only places to build is along walk to the park. Hopefully CF will find a way.

[TraderJake]

That's a really interesting comment about waterpark profitability. As someone who ran the Waterworks and Boomerrang Bay Merchandise Locations in 2003 and 2004 (and was out there in 2002 and 2001), I think his comment about margins with waterparks is bull. As Satoru Iwata would say, Boomerrang Bay Resale printed(s) money.

It probably has a lot to do with Kings Island core demographic and how these people tend not to realize there is a waterpark, but then when they find out they want to go, and then they have to rent a locker, buy a swim suit, get some towels, eat, etc.

[The Interpreter]

Much of what Mr. Kinzel says any more causes at least me to scratch my head.

If Paramount Parks was so strong in wood coasters, what are they building in Santa Clara?

[Erosarrow05]

I have just two words...

Denny Crane

[WooferBearATL]

Much of what Mr. Kinzel says any more causes at least me to scratch my head.

If Paramount Parks was so strong in wood coasters, what are they building in Santa Clara?

Yeah, it's just very confusing.

The more comments I read from Mr. Kinzel, the more I'm amazed that he is in charge of a major amusement park chain. Has he always been this way? Could he just have poor advisers? Or is it possible that it's just time for him to step down? (WooferBear's Attempt to Be Delicate in Saying The Man Seems To Be Losing Touch With Reality.)

[The Interpreter]

In his day, he was considered a true genius. Of course, his all purpose solution to declining admissions is to build a major new coaster...and it worked, brilliantly, until recently. He also was known for being debt averse, conservative, and for building rides and buying parks from current income....

[IBEW_Sparky]

Yeah, there were a LOT of things I wanted to wave the B.S. flag on in that interview.... R.I.P. Geauga Lake. Another one was the statement related to buying any parks in the near future. I am willing to bet he would do WHATEVER it takes to get ahold of Six Flags when their financial woes become dire next year or in 2010.

[The Interpreter]

I'd take that bet on the other side. Actually, Cedar Fair is only in marginally better shape than Six Flags. For now.

[PKI_flyer]

Does that mean there will be more emphasis on family attractions instead of roller coasters?

No, we're always going to try and appeal to the thrill market.

So they want to appeal to the market that spends the least amount of money at a theme park? Research has shown that family attractions bring in more attendance and money. IE family rides bring the entire family and their money. I really think Cedar Fair is going to be the next six flags, rollercoaster may get press, but theme and atmosphere gets families and their wallets. (Disney seems to do pretty well with this formula)

[vortexfan]

The more comments I read from Mr. Kinzel, the more I'm amazed that he is in charge of a major amusement park chain. Has he always been this way? Could he just have poor advisers? Or is it possible that it's just time for him to step down? (WooferBear's Attempt to Be Delicate in Saying The Man Seems To Be Losing Touch With Reality.)

How many more years to go until he's done at Cedar Fair? Hopefully his successor will be younger and have a fresher take on things.

[The Interpreter]

Mr. Kinzel has three more years left on his contract. His putative successor, Mr. Falfas, is a Kinzel protege. I'd not expect anything any different from Mr. Falfas.

http://www.cedarfair.com/_upload/8-k%20emp...20contracts.pdf

[italianchef]

It's a good story. And with all of CF's debt and the slowing United States economy, it is obvious that CF cannot expand.

[BavarianBeatle]

When he steps down, I would nominate Interpreter to replace him..........

[WooferBearATL]

It's a good story. And with all of CF's debt and the slowing United States economy, it is obvious that CF cannot expand.

It's a good story?

As in Cinderella is a good story?

As in Huckleberry Fin is a good story?

Chef, how was this a good story?

[Outdoor Man]

and coming up next year for the marketing department to sell is the feeling of nostalgia the parks had when paramount owned them.

I still find it humorous, and without historical evidence, that this was the marketing message of 2008. I made my 5th visit to the park over the weekend and nothing strikes me as Golden Year'ish- they even removed the landscaped Eiffel Tower clock.

As far as te resort comments- I have always wondered what the original "master plan" circa 1970 for that exit was. wasn't Roy Disney consulting on the project from Disneyland?

[Kawana]

I have just two words...

Denny Crane

HA!! That fits perfectly. Too funny.

[Kawana]

"Technology is out there to build coasters over 400 feet. Does it make sense to go bigger?

Financially, no. The price of steel today is unbelievable. We're constantly keeping track of steel prices to see what we can put in because we're ordering these coasters three years ahead of time. We're ordering coasters now for 2010. You can go as high as you want, but from a financial point, it's hard to justify."

Very interesting. So by his own words, was the new "Swan Lake Coaster" a Paramount project or a Cedar Fair project?

[teenageninja]

It almost has to be a Paramount project. It takes several years to plan a ride especially of the scale that it seems to be taking on. I would imagine planning for this ride started back in mid '06 early '07.

[WooferBearATL]

and coming up next year for the marketing department to sell is the feeling of nostalgia the parks had when paramount owned them.

I still find it humorous, and without historical evidence, that this was the marketing message of 2008. I made my 5th visit to the park over the weekend and nothing strikes me as Golden Year'ish- they even removed the landscaped Eiffel Tower clock.

As far as te resort comments- I have always wondered what the original "master plan" circa 1970 for that exit was. wasn't Roy Disney consulting on the project from Disneyland?

Please tell me they did not remove the clock? Something that has been there since the beginning? Something that should be there until the end? Man, is it the second coming of Paramount? .... Is this the end?

[The Interpreter]

Last I saw and heard, the landscaping for the clock has not yet returned. That is not unusual...as May 15 is the day that frost becomes a 50/50 proposition in the Cinci area...with that flower bed being surrounded by air on all sides, it is less protected than ground plants are...

[Captain Picard]

I wonder if they would be looking at Kennywood if they had a way to pay for it. Kennywood looks like a good deal compared to what they paid for GL and Paramount Parks.

The only park that will be for sale when they are ready for expansion will be Wild Escape if it gets built.

[WooferBearATL]

Last I saw and heard, the landscaping for the clock has not yet returned. That is not unusual...as May 15 is the day that frost becomes a 50/50 proposition in the Cinci area...with that flower bed being surrounded by air on all sides, it is less protected than ground plants are...

Yes, it used to be that the park did not put in any annual's until Mother's Day weekend.

I wonder if they would be looking at Kennywood if they had a way to pay for it. Kennywood looks like a good deal compared to what they paid for GL and Paramount Parks.

The only park that will be for sale when they are ready for expansion will be Wild Escape if it gets built.

Well, we know that CF and SF are in no position to acquire other parks. Now they both are in positions to unload several parks, but certainly in no position to buy.

[IBEW_Sparky]

OK, I agree with you Interp about CF being in at best marginally better shape at this time than SF, but I stll say DK would do ANYTHING it takes... including cutting corners at exisiting parks... to further Monopolize the industry. Remember when TTD was built, and he was quoted as saying "That will show SF:WOA!" The man does not like competition from any angle and if there is any way possible to reduce/eliminate it he will IMHO. As a small scale example of this, simply walk along the queue line for FD and look at how the Top Gun themeing was ripped out of the ground and the holes where the sign posts used to be, along with the conduits for the lighting of said signage are still shabbily remaining. What would it have cost to fill the holes with dirt and make it look presentable, maybe a grand total??

[WooferBearATL]

OK, I agree with you Interp about CF being in at best marginally better shape at this time than SF, but I stll say DK would do ANYTHING it takes... including cutting corners at exisiting parks... to further Monopolize the industry. Remember when TTD was built, and he was quoted as saying "That will show SF:WOA!" The man does not like competition from any angle and if there is any way possible to reduce/eliminate it he will IMHO. As a small scale example of this, simply walk along the queue line for FD and look at how the Top Gun themeing was ripped out of the ground and the holes where the sign posts used to be, along with the conduits for the lighting of said signage are still shabbily remaining. What would it have cost to fill the holes with dirt and make it look presentable, maybe a grand total??

And as CF and SF is leveraged to their eyeballs; where would the money come from?

[Outdoor Man]

agreed with the flowers, but didn't they usually leave the actualy clock in place?

If that isn't the case I could see why it hasn't returned yet i guess.... it hasn't been real warm here yet.

Our company participated in the West Chester Business Expo last year.... I remember setting it up on 5/8/07... being about 91 degrees.... i think we hit a high of 55 yesterday.

gotta love ohio weather. Woofer, you can keep the tornado's in your neck of the woods.

[WooferBearATL]

agreed with the flowers, but didn't they usually leave the actualy clock in place?

If that isn't the case I could see why it hasn't returned yet i guess.... it hasn't been real warm here yet.

Our company participated in the West Chester Business Expo last year.... I remember setting it up on 5/8/07... being about 91 degrees.... i think we hit a high of 55 yesterday.

gotta love ohio weather. Woofer, you can keep the tornado's in your neck of the woods.

Yes, the physical structure of the clock is/was a permanent fixture. The arms, of course, are removable.

We've had more tornado's this year then in all the years I've lived down here (combined).

Today, it's only going to be in the lower 70's. This time of year, it should be in the mid 80's every day.

[Outdoor Man]

if i'm not mistaken, and someone could correct me on this, the actual clock mechanism has been removed.

[CoastersRZ]

Actually, I believe that the clock was in its typical off season form. Although, since that path to Rivertown by Paradise Island Treats is closed, I haven`t walked down the path to Coney Mall from behind the Eiffel Tower, during the daytime. I was on that path this past Friday night, but didn`t really pay attention to it.