I would definitely not say Arrow was a bad company. The rides removed, with the exception of The Bat, were old. It was their time. The Bat was a prototype, you can't expect to get everything right on a prototype.

And what about Drachen Fire? It was only 10 years old when it stopped operating.

I was just talking about Kings Island, not Arrow rides in general. But yes, I would say Drachen Fire's demise was probably more closely related to bad design.

Wasn't Drachen Fire to be built by B & M and they backed out, so Arrow got a coaster plan they didn't know what to do with. The corkscrew on the first drop looked really interesting, I wish I had a chance to ride it. So what, it didnt pass it's g-force test!

Yeah, it was supposed to be built by B&M but they were busy with Paramount's bidding.

Was what arrow took B&M desgin to make DF?

Was what arrow took B&M desgin to make DF?

From what I have read it seems if that was the case. If you look at the layout of DF it has that B & M flavor, things you would never see on a Arrow coaster.

I understand that but if arrow took B&M desgin I don't understand how it could have been so rough.

Ya you kinda fly thru those corkscrews! I would still do it, aleast once.

So, what style of B&M coaster was DF set to be?

Dang....that looks like fun! I love the corkscrews. Even the color is attractive.

Ya you kinda fly thru those corkscrews! I would still do it, aleast once.

Is this DF? If so where was it located? What park?

Ya you kinda fly thru those corkscrews! I would still do it, aleast once.

Is this DF? If so where was it located? What park?

Drachen Fire http://www.rcdb.com/id112.htm

Ya you kinda fly thru those corkscrews! I would still do it, aleast once.

Is this DF? If so where was it located? What park?

Busch Gardens Europe

The B&M/Arrow Drachen Fire conspiracy is a great story, but I can't imagine it being any more that that. It's a great piece of enthusiast lore that seems plausible (especially given the incredibly unique design compared to other Arrow coasters, along with the rumors that a similar situation occurred between Schwarzkopf and Arrow for Big Bad Wolf), and I really want to believe it, but so many people who seem to be in the know have discounted this theory. I'd like it to be true just as much as the next guy, but there are a few holes in the story that seem to hint at a cunning fabrication. (B&M couldn't figure out how to put a loop around the lift hill, they had designed the ride but had other work to finish so gave the design to Arrow, Busch was okay with a breach of contract, etc.)

If it had been originally designed by B&M, where are the wraparound corkscrews and cutbacks on their coasters now? Also, a media pack sent to me by Arrow a number of years ago has blueprints for Drachen Fire on the front cover, with no mention of B&M whatsoever. I imagine Busch made very specific requests for their new ride, resulting in the very unique Arrow design that just didn't work out very well.

Was what arrow took B&M desgin to make DF?

If you look at the layout of DF it has that B & M flavor, things you would never see on a Arrow coaster.

Mmmmmmmmm,B & M!!

Arrow built a lot of rides and many are still in use today. Someone pointed out earlier in the thread that they helped pioneer tubular steel coasters. It was a lot more then that at one point in time they did a HUGE amount of work for Disney (I believe Disney owned part of the company at one point) and they designed the ride systems on many of Disneyland's early rides. Sure they built the Matterhorn but they also built the ride systems for Dumbo, Alice in Wonderland, Pirates of the Caribbean, Small World, and the Haunted Mansion. Even the parking lot trams were built by Arrow.

A lot of people just seem to remember the bad rides and the expensive mistakes towards the end. But don't forget the company was around for over 50 years and did produce many good rides.

Actually, several different companies at one time or another were called Arrow. They had combinations with companies from Huss to S&S, and were known variously as Arrow Dynamics, Arrow Development, Arrow Huss and even Rio Grande Holding, Inc., among others. There were some differences in construction, design and philosophy from Arrow company to Arrow company, too; as personnel and methods changed over time.

Arrow is like packard, studebaker, dusenburg, etc. Any company that had an integral part in the history of their product but was eventually beat out by companies with new, more advanced designs.

cough...Microsoft????...cough

Arrow is like packard, studebaker, dusenburg, etc. Any company that had an integral part in the history of their product but was eventually beat out by companies with new, more advanced designs.

cough...Microsoft????...cough

DeLorean???? ...cough

Did someone page John Zachary? Or the gentleman that owns a substantial chunk of Six Flags...some guy named Bill something? I think the latter gentleman may be wanted at the front gates....