Does "modern theming" really affect a ride that much? (Mythbusters haha)

[Steve]

Hey guys, I have noticed some contradictory things after working the train and seeing guests' reactions to the ride. The train can be compared to the antique cars as "dinosaurs" among Kings Island's rides. It has been there since 72' and is not updated in any way. Yet, I see kids' faces light up, they start jumping behind the fences, and are overwhelmed with excitement when it arrives in station. Notice how classic the KI&MVRR is. The ride is not called "The Rugrats Train tour" with all kinds of Nickelodeon theming. or the "Tomb Raider train ride." The kids seem much more excited to ride it than a "current" ride with all the theming but overall dry.

The antique cars weren't "Scooby Doo's buggy tours". My point is I really don't think classic rides lose their appeal because they aren't "Current" or modern. Adults usually enjoy these rides more because they grew up with them. But kids(being our concern) love the idea of being able to really drive gas powered cars. The cars were loud and the engines shook just like real cars! Every little boy's dream. Kids seemed to ignore the "Wild Thornberry's" theming on the Kings Mill log flume. Do you really think KCKC would be a turn off because it wasnt' "Patrick's bikini bottom water slide"? NO!

Kids see that towering massive flume and are excited.

My point is I hope Kings Island doesn't start ripping out even more classic rides like the Train or Viking Ship just because they aren't super new and reeking of modernness.

What are you guys' thoughts on this? I know what adults typically prefer, but should we really make everything so modern for kids?

[IheartKI]

My son loves the train! He's three. He loves the kiddie area too, because it has all his favorites...but the train is a classic. I love the train as well, because it is a relaxing ride through a part of Kings Island that has for the most part, remained somewhat the same from my childhood. Although I would love to see more Cowboy & Indian themeing throughout the ride...but something tells me that probably won't happen.

[Gordon Bombay]

KCKC was a turn off because it was a maintenance nightmare, and do you think kids really noticed the "Logging company" theming back when it was Kings Mills logging company? Guests of all ages enjoy the train, but pay attention and notice how many times kids refer to the Blue engine as "Thomas" and the Green engine as "Percy."

Modern day theming doesn't always work, but it obviously has a huge affect on attracting guests. Nickelodeon Universe and the past versions of KI's kids areas have been some of their most successful additions in the past and they've kept up winning awards by constantly updating the theming and content of these areas. Sometimes changes have to take place to keep up with current trends and to attract more guests.

[dakota2112]

I'm in my mid-30's and I fondly remember the general theming of the big KCKC flume. It was part of what made Rivertown what it is/was for me, along with Beast, White Water Canyon, the little flume, and even the train. The little flume of course is the same ride it always was, and the new theming doesn't detract from the ride itself - but I personally think the original theming was better and added to the overall ambience of that area of the park. This of course is largely just personal preference, and maybe a generational difference too compared to today's kids.

edit: ok, I guess the little flume is technically not in rivertown - but I always considered it part of rivertown nonetheless

[Steve]

Agreed. I just noticed as I worked on Flume that kids would ask their parents "who is the monkey" and "why is he on the box?" Of course the parents gave typical answers of "I guess he likes cheezy crunchies" or something. No kids shouted "Hey! That's Darwin the monkey from the Wild Thornberrys!"

The above poster has a similar opinion as myself but is also an adult. The kids area I agree should be kept up to date with kids shows and programs but I also want people to recognize certain rides are just so novel and attractive in and of themselves WITHOUT modern cheesy theming. I agreed with all the nickelodeon names except I thought naming The Beastie the Fairly Odd Coaster was very very lame. Kids could think of it as a mini-beast like I did growing up and was excited to finally ride the "real thing"! I believe some rides carry a sense of thrill and excitement in just the design and should not be trashed for not being "modern".

[Gordon Bombay]

But what about kids who grew up with The Beastie known as The Scooby Doo, since that was its original name. The lack of recognition with the WIld Thornberries may be due to how sparsely that show is now broadcast, not to mention new episodes are no longer made.

[iChase]

Agreed. I just noticed as I worked on Flume that kids would ask their parents "who is the monkey" and "why is he on the box?" Of course the parents gave typical answers of "I guess he likes cheezy crunchies" or something. No kids shouted "Hey! That's Darwin the monkey from the Wild Thornberrys!"

The above poster has a similar opinion as myself but is also an adult. The kids area I agree should be kept up to date with kids shows and programs but I also want people to recognize certain rides are just so novel and attractive in and of themselves WITHOUT modern cheesy theming. I agreed with all the nickelodeon names except I thought naming The Beastie the Fairly Odd Coaster was very very lame. Kids could think of it as a mini-beast like I did growing up and was excited to finally ride the "real thing"! I believe some rides carry a sense of thrill and excitement in just the design and should not be trashed for not being "modern".

Yeah, the Wild Thornberries was more from my era. I recognize all the characters and I understand their placement. If those kids grew up with the show they would too. That's why the newer-themed Nick rides are more successful. I know a few of them but nowhere near as well as I do my era of shows and the HB characters and rides (even though they predate me several decades).

I personally prefer the mine theming of Rivertown. I'm sad that it isn't that extensive any more. Especially with The Crypt there and the lack of attractions (the buildings that haven't been inhabited for awhile). That was always what made Rivertown my favorite area, the heavy theming and the feeling of leaving the modern world.

[WooferBearATL]

Yeah, the Wild Thornberries was more from my era. I recognize all the characters and I understand their placement. If those kids grew up with the show they would too. That's why the newer-themed Nick rides are more successful. I know a few of them but nowhere near as well as I do my era of shows and the HB characters and rides (even though they predate me several decades).

I personally prefer the mine theming of Rivertown. I'm sad that it isn't that extensive any more. Especially with The Crypt there and the lack of attractions (the buildings that haven't been inhabited for awhile). That was always what made Rivertown my favorite area, the heavy theming and the feeling of leaving the modern world.

Kinda tells ya something about the HB Characters, now does it not?

Someone is able to relate and understand HB Characters that predate them several decades but many kids do not relate Nicks shows that have been out of production a few years.

Funny thing is that Rivertown was (at one time) the busiest area of the park.

[iChase]

I know what you're saying. HB characters are enduring. These Nick shows come and go far too much. Edit 2: I'm actually sitting here watching the Jetsons. Oh HB is the best.

I remember Rivertown being busy back in the mid 90's (about as far as I can remember). It was such a great area of the park. It still is but it doesn't have anywhere near its former glory.

Edit: 500th post!

[WooferBearATL]

I know what you're saying. HB characters are enduring. These Nick shows come and go far too much.

I remember Rivertown being busy back in the mid 90's (about as far as I can remember). It was such a great area of the park. It still is but it doesn't have anywhere near its former glory.

Edit: 500th post!

With the advent of the new coaster; we may see some return to glory.

Would be nice to see the small log floom re-asimilated into Rivertown.

[iChase]

I agree with both. I really hope they play up the coaster and heavily theme it.

It would be wonderful if the log flume became a Rivertown themed ride. You know, like a LOG mill.

[WooferBearATL]

I agree with both. I really hope they play up the coaster and heavily theme it.

It would be wonderful if the log flume became a Rivertown themed ride. You know, like a LOG mill.

Oh ya mean like it used to be?

[iChase]

Hmm, exactly. What a novel idea.

[DeLorean Rider]

The cars were loud and the engines shook just like real cars! Every little boy's dream. Kids seemed to ignore the "Wild Thornberry's" theming on the Kings Mill log flume.

They also guzzeled gas like real cars. ~16 cars running 9:30am-10:30pm every day= lots of $$$

Do you really think KCKC would be a turn off because it wasnt' "Patrick's bikini bottom water slide"? NO!

Kids see that towering massive flume and are excited.

Still it is just impractical to have two log flumes right next to each other, especially when KCKC was on prime realtly. Besides you dont know what kind of maintainence was required to keep the ride running. In the end it wasnt worth it. Its all about oppportunity cost. Spend money on an old stinky water ride, or cut our losses and build a new ride that we can promote that will in the long run bring people into the park.

It's like choosing between keeping a car that gets 15 miles to the gallon that is already paid off or buying a newer car that gets 30 miles to the gallon. Yea you have to pay the price tag for the new car, but in the end (especially with these gas prices) you're spending half as much on gas. Believe me that definately adds up. The difference between the DeLorean and my Mustang is 7mpg and I notice a difference.

My point is I hope Kings Island doesn't start ripping out even more classic rides like the Train or Viking Ship just because they aren't super new and reeking of modernness.

The train is not going anywhere. However I have never seen kids have this reaction:

Yet, I see kids' faces light up, they start jumping behind the fences, and are overwhelmed with excitement when it arrives in station. ... The kids seem much more excited to ride it than a "current" ride with all the theming but overall dry.

... for the viking fury.

[Outdoor Man]

this was probably sprinkled in the other responses.

but- i think that kids under a certain age love trains. period. even though there is nothing particularly "attractful" about the trains these days, she absolutley loves the "choo choo."

i think Amazon Falls could receive a new lease on life if they moved it to the RiverTown area... There's not much to the theming of it in its current location... and its almost a mile away from anything else that is "water."

I do think that in some locations theming done right is part of the ride experience and disappointingly Paramount only did it once... maybe twice. Tomb Raider had outstanding theming.... it was almost worth it just standing in line. FOF is "ok."

Universal Studios theming is almost as good as the rides themselves: Spiderman, Dueling Dragons, the Mummy... About the extent of KI's ride theming is an endless supply of turnstiles (SOB as prime example).

[Steve]

Delorean, I have seen kids up talking to the conductors in awe, and even climbing up into the engine area to look around and getting pictures with the conductors. The Crypt doesn't seem to be doing well from what I've seen in satisfying most of it's riders without any theming or variety.

HB characters do stand the test of time, good point. Not that it's practical now, but it would be nice to see Congo Falls or another water ride in rivertown. From the Kenton Cove Canoes, to the Keelboat Canal, to Swan lake, rivertown is drying up. I don't see Cedar Fair doing this anytime soon but it would be nice to see a vintage "rivertown" log flume instead of the nickelodeon theme.

I am going to venture out and say that MAYBE Kings Island is a little heavy on the Kiddy Rides. 20 is an awful lot of rides to designate for kids. But, they HAVE won the golden ticket award 7 years in a row and I'm sure it brings lots of kids/families(Profit). Cedar Point seems to be the more adult oriented park.

[Discodude3737]

The Crypt hasn't been doing well? How many times in the pre-seasons of recent years did you see four queues full of people? While some people may not be fond of the lack of theming, the apparent ridership doesn't lie.

[Steve]

I'm talking this season, as the Crypt. Not the past as TR:TR. Everytime I ride by it on the train I don't see as many enthusiastic people leaving or queue lines as I would expect.. I'm not going to make the common mistake of saying "Let's rip it out" just because I personally didn't enjoy it. I think it could use some fixing and TLC though.

[DeLorean Rider]

Delorean, I have seen kids up talking to the conductors in awe, and even climbing up into the engine area to look around and getting pictures with the conductors. The Crypt doesn't seem to be doing well from what I've seen in satisfying most of it's riders without any theming or variety.

HB characters do stand the test of time, good point. Not that it's practical now, but it would be nice to see Congo Falls or another water ride in rivertown. From the Kenton Cove Canoes, to the Keelboat Canal, to Swan lake, rivertown is drying up. I don't see Cedar Fair doing this anytime soon but it would be nice to see a vintage "rivertown" log flume instead of the nickelodeon theme.

I am going to venture out and say that MAYBE Kings Island is a little heavy on the Kiddy Rides. 20 is an awful lot of rides to designate for kids. But, they HAVE won the golden ticket award 7 years in a row and I'm sure it brings lots of kids/families(Profit). Cedar Point seems to be the more adult oriented park.

From both the employees at the Crypt and my own experiences I have seen it to be doing very well. Discodude's right on that one. Reguardless of it's past, I think the Crypt is doing much better than most intended.

I do not disagree with you that children like the train. Everybody likes the train. The only trains that I dont like are kind that make you have to drive 25 miles out of your way to Cedar Point (right discodude, lol).

Nobody is going to argue with you that the train is a good ride, but the train and KCKC are not in the same category. Aside from the relaxing nature of the train and the fact that everyone can ride it and appreciate it, it is also used for transportation from Boomerang Bay. KCKC was a ride where you went up in a boat, rode around and didnt get wet. Steve, there are people like you that miss KCKC, believe me, I'm one of them, but that's not to sa I disagree with the parks decision. The people that miss KCKC are not a big enough group to pay the bills. Believe me, kids faces did not "light up" for KCKC the way that they do for the train. The ride was, and I'm sorry to say this, not that great. It was a boat ride, and the only reason there is so much discussion about it is because it's gone. If it was still there, we'd probably be talking about what bad shape it's in.

Not to mention KCKC never had a line. Yea I know, great, we can ride it as much as we want, but aside from it's capacity abilities, it also reflects popularity. KCKC was only kind of popular. Wild thornberry's, flashy, themed, etc. is far more popular than KCKC was; and so is the crypt.

By the way parents with kids go the the park for the kids and the kids want to go for the kiddy rides.

Kiddy rides = Parents spending money in the park

Parents of families are easily the highest money spending demographic the park reaches out to.

To Quote myself in a previous thread:

KCKC, come on really? Honestly, from the parks perspective, do we really need two 30+ year old log flumes right next to each other? Besides, when Tomb Raider opened, nobody had regrets about the removal of KCKC. Again, I love KCKC as much as the next guy and probably more, but it wasn't THAT great. The park is constantly trying to upgrade. Yea they want to hold onto some nostalgia but some things have to be cut, decisions have to be made. The park cant hold onto an old stinky water ride that you do NOT get wet on, for a select few that would rather have it than the current state of Tomb Raider. People only miss it because it's gone; what I mean is, if it was still here, people would not go around saying: Man I'm so glad the park still has this ride. People complain about rides like Top Gun, Adventure Express, etc. but as soon as the park replaces them, people will complain and say the park had no reason to do so.

The park is constantly upgrading. The park is not trying to appeal to us individual enthusiasts. One day out of the year on KIC day the park is catering to us, ever other day of the year, they're trying to appeal to the average familys that dont even notice when a ride is replaced. Do you know how much more money the park makes off of those familys than the do off of you? I know how to save money at KI; honestly, I'm probably the last kind of guest KI wants because I rarely buy merchandise, rarely buy more than one or two slices of pizza, always get free water, never play games, and never pay to get in. Why in the hell would the park want to please me.

The park wants familys of 4+ who buy 2 complete meals every time they go, everyone has to get a souviner, everyone plays games to get 10 cent plush toys, etc. etc. etc. The park makes more money off of one family of four in one visit than they do off of me in 10 visits. Honestly, why did they remove the antique cars? Because the average guest didn't even notice. And to boot, they dont even notice that half the effects dont work on IJ. All they see now is a flashy launching coaster that the kids that are too afraid to ride The Vortex are willing to ride. Why remove antique cars, because all they see is a big swinging thing, and a flashy Sling Shot ride. Why replace KCKC, because there is still a log flume next door, and when it works, the average guest enjoys tomb raider. Why replace fastracks, because now a family of 4 can race, have fun, and not burn up their backs.

Lots of money is spent to please this demographic of patron. You think the park is having Robbie Kineval jump for amusement park enthusiasts? As though the park is expecting 70,000 Acers on May 24th? No way! The park wants to give average money spending familys a reason to come to the park and spend $$$. And if that means giving people hope to see robbie kineval get extremely hurt, so be it!

My cousins/aunts/uncles come in from out of town about once a year and go to the park. For ~6-8 of them, with maybe a couple free tickets, and some to pay for, between admission, food, games, merch, etc., they spend $300-400 EASY, probably more. They come every year and barely even notice the changes. They NEVER complain about ride replacements. At most they say: "didnt the park have antique cars? Oh well, lets get in line for Italian Job." I havn't spent $400 at the park in the last 2 years, including employee meals! Steve, no offense but you work at the park, the park isn't making money off of you; why would they care about pleasing you.

No ride replacement is ever a downgrade in the parks eyes. If it was then they wouldn't do it. You cant promote KCKC after 30 years but you can promote Tomb Raider; you cant promote fast tracks but you can promote collangata(?) racers; you cant promote King Cobra but you can promote the hell out of Delerium; you cant promote antique cars but you can promote the Italian Job; and that is what brings people to the park. Also with the rising price of gas, it probably would not have been long before the park replaced the antique cars anyway.

The park does not remove/replace rides to spite patrons, they do it to please them. If you're not pleased, then honestly, you're probably not worth pleasing.

Progress is progress. Out with the old, in with the new; it's the american way.

Bottom line: To the average american guest, for the money they pay to enjoy the park, they want new flashy, swingy, launchy, top spinny, racing, rides, not old slow, rusty, stinky watery, gas guzzely, back burny, rides.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone, I'm just trying to make a point.

[IheartKI]

Does anyone think that swan lake will get it's water back after the construction is over?

[MrPostman]

The water appears to be confined to the concrete splash pool they have built. The Splash area sits in the lowest part of Swan Lake, filling it back up would flood the splash pool. That being said, I have no clue why they would make that splash pool so small, shoulda been three times the size they made it.

[KIlover123]

yes i want the lake to come back, if there is any room for it, and btw, what is the construction for?

[iChase]

Yes, looking at the construction it is all but confirmed that the lake is returning.

[KIlover123]

Yes, looking at the construction it is all but confirmed that the lake is returning.

thank you

[iChase]

Absolutely.

[MrPostman]

"They also guzzeled gas like real cars. ~16 cars running 9:30am-10:30pm every day= lots of $$$"

I cant see the costs of running the antique cars outweighing the cost of running other rides, just paying for gasoline instead of electric for direct drives, chain lifts or linear induction motors.

"It's like choosing between keeping a car that gets 15 miles to the gallon that is already paid off or buying a newer car that gets 30 miles to the gallon. Yea you have to pay the price tag for the new car, but in the end (especially with these gas prices) you're spending half as much on gas. Believe me that definately adds up."

It would take you about 7 years on average to save as much on gas as your "new" car costs, in other words in 7 years you will start saving money on gas given the fact that your "new" car is still in service in 7 years!

"My point is I hope Kings Island doesn't start ripping out even more classic rides like the Train or Viking Ship just because they aren't super new and reeking of modernness."

The train is not going anywhere. However I have never seen kids have this reaction

"Yet, I see kids' faces light up, they start jumping behind the fences, and are overwhelmed with excitement when it arrives in station. ... The kids seem much more excited to ride it than a "current" ride with all the theming but overall dry."

... for the viking fury.

A quick paint job and change the name to "Son of Delirium" and you are in business.

[MrPostman]

yes i want the lake to come back, if there is any room for it, and btw, what is the construction for?

what construction?

[UncleHenry]

I am going to venture out and say that MAYBE Kings Island is a little heavy on the Kiddy Rides. 20 is an awful lot of rides to designate for kids. But, they HAVE won the golden ticket award 7 years in a row and I'm sure it brings lots of kids/families(Profit). Cedar Point seems to be the more adult oriented park.

I'd fully agree. I can't see how a kid would enjoy a full day at CP. They don't have many rides for them, and I'd say 1/3 of them are the things like Go Diego Go at KI. Of course, CP might have fixed that with their Snoopy area (even though I heard it didn't do too much). KI is usually seen as the more kiddy version of CP, but the mystery construction might be fixing that problem.

EDIT: Of course, I know one member of this forum who says KI is the adult park, and CP is the family park. I still don't know how anyone can see that.

[Steve]

I agree unfortunately with ya on KCKC being a financial nightmare and we would probably just be complaining on how dirty the water is anyways...Unfortunate. Not to say I'll forget it or stop showing my flop pride haha! I guess I was lucky because everytime we hit up KCKC it was ALWAYS running. Maybe I have the luck of the Irish or something..

I guess a better answer to the kiddy ride issue would be to build more "adult rides" (which Cedar Fair definitely seems to be doing ) After all think about it logically, we don't need new kiddie rides. Kids are only kids for so long, so by the time they get tired of all those little rides KI has invested in they will have already moved onto bigger and better things.

Just curious, why are you so into Deloreans? I never gave them a second thought until I saw your username. I know why you are into the Crypt..

Do we at least agree on the rivertown theming needing slight improvement?

[The Interpreter]

Note that virtually every US park with an Arrow hydroflume, and that is what KCKC was, has removed it. When nearly every park that has one removes a ride, there is almost always a reason common to them all....in this case, chalk removals up to low ridership, high maintenance costs and rider fatigue (as in we've done that before and I am not all that interested in doing it again, thank you very much).