Geauga Lake Double Loop

[Tomkatt7]

^^And the Moose has spoken. "Sorry folks, parks closed"

(I am so sorry for that, but I just cold not resist)

I'm just glad someone else is old enough to "get it"

Most people just think it's a weird refrence to Wal-Mart......

BTW, you should see my WallyWorld golf cart I built!!!

[Tomkatt7]

By all accounts, it will not be staying where it is....

Where will it be going?

[Monroe]

It could go either way Interp, but I was thinking more in the lines (as in John Candy's) of Wally Worlds Moose. i/e Tomkatt7's avatar.

edit: Tomkatt7 beat me to it.

[The Interpreter]

By all accounts, it will not be staying where it is....

Where will it be going?

That has not yet been revealed. Details are expected as soon as tomorrow...

It could go either way Interp, but I was thinking more in the lines (as in John Candy's) of Wally Worlds Moose. i/e Tomkatt7's avatar.

edit: Tomkatt7 beat me to it.

That's why I had added the Terpy, who knows better, part!

[Tomkatt7]

Yep, for the "pups" that still don't get it, rent National Lampoons Vacation.

My favorite movie of all time. If I took the whole clan cross-country, thats exactlly how it would be!!!!

I'm not too sure I'd get out of the pool with Christy to go chase down the wife though.....

[geaugafan2013]

Im not saying that they closed the park to make us mad or to steal rides I mean seriously thank heavens that some of the rides are being saved, yes i bashed Cedar Fair but who wouldnt if they tore out your favorite stuff, But ya yell at me for saying that there was way to much trash in the park when people here are already saying oh have ya guys noticed how much trash is in the parking lot i mean seriously you start a forum about it and then you yell at someone for saying that there was to much trash in the park GET OVER IT I bashed KI for something that other people are agreeing on also! Im not saying you dont have to hate them either! But heres how i put it, they never really advertised to get people in the park so if you want people you got to advertise people and they didnt do that, which means no one knows about it even being there anymore cause no one is reminding them so the downfall is basically all their fault!

[BavarianBeatle]

Yep, for the "pups" that still don't get it, rent National Lampoons Vacation.

My favorite movie of all time. If I took the whole clan cross-country, thats exactlly how it would be!!!!

I'm not too sure I'd get out of the pool with Christy to go chase down the wife though.....

My kids are already clamoring for me to "take the whole clan cross country." So, one of these years, I may just pack up the old family truckster and make the trek to Magic Mountain (where the movie was filmed). And I will make sure it isn't closed so I won't need my "Magnum P.I." That's a few years away though.....

[Tomkatt7]

Yep, for the "pups" that still don't get it, rent National Lampoons Vacation.

My favorite movie of all time. If I took the whole clan cross-country, thats exactlly how it would be!!!!

I'm not too sure I'd get out of the pool with Christy to go chase down the wife though.....

My kids are already clamoring for me to "take the whole clan cross country." So, one of these years, I may just pack up the old family truckster and make the trek to Magic Mountain (where the movie was filmed). And I will make sure it isn't closed so I won't need my "Magnum P.I." That's a few years away though.....

It's late, I gotta work tomorrow , and you guys are gonna end up making me fire up the ol DVD player tonight!!!!

[Tomkatt7]

Im not saying that they closed the park to make us mad or to steal rides I mean seriously thank heavens that some of the rides are being saved, yes i bashed Cedar Fair but who wouldnt if they tore out your favorite stuff, But ya yell at me for saying that there was way to much trash in the park when people here are already saying oh have ya guys noticed how much trash is in the parking lot i mean seriously you start a forum about it and then you yell at someone for saying that there was to much trash in the park GET OVER IT I bashed KI for something that other people are agreeing on also! Im not saying you dont have to hate them either! But heres how i put it, they never really advertised to get people in the park so if you want people you got to advertise people and they didnt do that, which means no one knows about it even being there anymore cause no one is reminding them so the downfall is basically all their fault!

We'll just have to agree to disagree, OK??

I wasn't yelling at you, just pointing out that your posts have been negative.

this is an open forum. As long as we don't talk politics, then we can all express our views.

That includes you AND me.

Have a good evening. Maybe we can talk about this subject a little more sometime.

[Outdoor Man]

The only thing that CF did that didn't make a lick of sense is closing before they made the announcement. They could have had some very large paydays with very significant goodwill attendance.

If anyone wants to blame anyone it would be Premier Parks for the massive expansion to GL to get it to a point where it was too large to its base. However, to see the population centers it was near I get why they gambled it.

Despite what anyone on a GL board says- CF didn't buy the park with investor money out of personal agenda to close the place. It's sad to see what is happening, but dollar and cents speaks. And yes, it is about money. It should be... example: i love my car... but with a long commute, 17 miles per gallon, and $4 gas... next week my beloved V-8 is getting traded in for the smallest engine I've had in my life, a 1.3liter 4 cylinder Civic Hybrid.... which is not what I ever expected to drive. BUT, saving money and making a wise financial decision for me and my family is more important than my pride. ie- CF tried the experiment to make GL work, and scale it back to a financially manageable size failed. And with the current state of the economy- they only saw more years of losses coming. Sometimes you have to make the tough decisions; and trust this- Mr. Kinzel isn't happy about this stain to his management record. To take GL back to a manageable size would have alienated the people who had come to expect the larger thrills only making attendance that much worse.

If you were to take a completely objective look at this through a case study you'd see that there really were no appealing options. Unfortunately, in the long run the prospects for WWK don't look very good either.

But again, what I cannot figure out is why they didn't do a few farewell weekends. In the end my thought is that was the biggest mistake.

[geaugafan2013]

THEY HAD A WHOLE 170 ACRES TO SELL WHY CLOSE THE WHOLE PLACE!

[Outdoor Man]

selling land wouldn't have made it profitable

[KIBeast]

SF killed GL when they decided to install 4 coasters in two years. Who, in their right minds would even consider doing that? SF thought that they could compete with Cedar Point and it was proven that they could not. Here is what I think...had CF not purchased Paramount Parks, GL would have been open this season and maybe one more. SF over-developed and GL paid the price. From all accounts that I have read, GL pre-SF, was a very quaint park, maybe similar to Kennywood. SF tried to build it up into another CP. They had a nice coaster count, but negelected every other aspect of the park. What also helped to do in GL was when Sea World pulled out.

Many have complained that 700,000 was enough attendance, but it apparently was not enough for GL to turn a profit. My biggest question to GL fans (and I am one and don't have the answer) is what could CF have done to erase all of those bad feelings created when SF ruined GL's reputation? It would take a lot more than marketing.

[Browntggrr]

THEY HAD A WHOLE 170 ACRES TO SELL WHY CLOSE THE WHOLE PLACE!

Hold on.

You previously complained that CF took out coaster after coaster, now you are upset that the whole park was closed?

You are confusing me. Which way do you want it? Remove rides or close the park?

And this is not the first time that the "CF hates history" comment has been made. Let's ask some historical questions:

Did anyone complain about history when SF installed all those coasters? Because it was clear that GL seemed to be doing decent prior to those coasters being there.

Did anyone complain about history when SF bought Sea World? Beacuase it seemed that both parks were doing decent before the merger.

Did anyone complain when the name "Geauga Lake" was removed from the park completely by SF? A name that was with the park for decades.

GL was already failing when CF bought the park. If CF had not purchased the park, do you actually believe that SF would have left the park open today considering all the parks they have already closed?

http://www.ohio.com/news/ap?articleID=524294&c=y

Q: Last fall, the decision was made to remove the rides from Geauga Lake near Cleveland and operate it as only a water park this year. How tough was that decision?

A: For me, it was very difficult to do, because it was my idea, my reputation to spend $144 million to buy it. But the numbers just weren't there. It was really the right answer to close it because it was losing money. Now our plan is to have the largest water park in the state of Ohio.

This does not sound like a person that is happy with the overall results of what happened to GL.

[RailRider]

SF killed GL when they decided to install 4 coasters in two years. Who, in their right minds would even consider doing that? SF thought that they could compete with Cedar Point and it was proven that they could not. Here is what I think...had CF not purchased Paramount Parks, GL would have been open this season and maybe one more. SF over-developed and GL paid the price. From all accounts that I have read, GL pre-SF, was a very quaint park, maybe similar to Kennywood. SF tried to build it up into another CP. They had a nice coaster count, but negelected every other aspect of the park. What also helped to do in GL was when Sea World pulled out.

Many have complained that 700,000 was enough attendance, but it apparently was not enough for GL to turn a profit. My biggest question to GL fans (and I am one and don't have the answer) is what could CF have done to erase all of those bad feelings created when SF ruined GL's reputation? It would take a lot more than marketing.

I dont think I could have said it any better. SF killed GL, CF tried to save the park. SF advertised that place in to the ground, yet guests still did not visit in the numbers needed, nor did they return. Wonder why Six is in the situation they are in? Because they have done this more than once. CF tried to scale back the opperating expesnes and improve the atmosphere and guest experience at GL, but just too little too late.

[geaugafan2013]

OKay yes im very confusing but heres the thing you CANT scale down a park after someone has just recentley went in and added all these coaster and then sell it to someone that wants to scale it down. That was Six Flags mistake it wasnt adding more coasters it was selling it to Cedar Fair. And as im on it the history was still there even thought they added all these coasters cause the last time i checked they didnt tear out Big Dipper to put in Dominator, or even Superman:Ultiamte Escape so the history was still there but now its completley GONE ! Because of Cedar Fair so there ya go !

[KIBeast]

If SF was so successful, why even sell? Looks to me more like SF over-developed, realized what they did way too late, then dumped their troubles on someone else. Would you still be angry had SF just closed GL instead of trying to sell it? The mistake was NOT selling to CF. Many mistakes were made prior to that.

So, if you don't scale down GL, then, in your infinite wisdom, what is the answer to bringing in more people through the gates? (a hint: the answer isn't marketing) Remember, CF did not start removing coasters in the first year of the aquisition. CF had to try to rebuild the reputation that SF had ruined.

[Browntggrr]

OKay yes im very confusing but heres the thing you CANT scale down a park after someone has just recentley went in and added all these coaster and then sell it to someone that wants to scale it down.

First, when CF purchased the park from SF, the park was already failing.

Second, the coaster removal was not as "recent" as you believe. CF waited 3 years before removing a coaster. In those 3 years, it was determined that the attendence could not support the amount of coasters that SF installed.

That was Six Flags mistake it wasnt adding more coasters it was selling it to Cedar Fair.

So does that mean if SF added even more coasters it would not have sold to CF? You have me lost on that one.

And as im on it the history was still there even thought they added all these coasters cause the last time i checked they didnt tear out Big Dipper to put in Dominator, or even Superman:Ultiamte Escape so the history was still there but now its completley GONE ! Because of Cedar Fair so there ya go !

In the first 110 years of Geauga Lake's existance, only 9 coasters existed at the park (2 were removed prior to 1975). But when SF took over, they installed 5 coasters. And you believe that GL's history was maintained with those additions? What kind of rose colored glasses are you looking through?

You are upset with the closing of GL. You are not the only one. But place blame where it belongs. Not with CF, but with SF. CF tried to bring GL back to where it used to be at, but it still lost money.

[jzarley]

I also think it's fair to put the blame for demise on the correct regime at Six Flags...the drastic overbuilding and over leveraging was caused by the previous management (the aforementioned Premier Parks). And, while I'm sure it can be argued that Shapiro & company have made their own mistakes, the demise of SF (when it finally happens) will be clearly at the hands of the previous management.

While I'm far from a CF fan boy, they did what they had to do with GL. In retrospect, it was probably a dumb buy on their part, but at the time the price was right, and they needed to prevent another operator from moving into the CP neighborhood.

Yes, it sucks and it's a shame that it had to happen, but GL was too far gone to save by the time CF took control. (Let's face it...if it were such a success why would SF have sold the whole thing for less than they paid for Sea World alone? Or, even more telling--why did Busch get out when they did?)

[geaugafan2013]

You cant scale down a park that has 10 roller coasters and expect that they will do just as good, say if i bought Cedar Point and i went and said oh this park needs to return to its roots and i start leaving things to rot (raging wolf bobs) leaving a the old water park sbno, tear out not add anything for 4 years, only adding a freaking cornhole game. You just cant expect it to do any good!

[The Interpreter]

Cedar Point is not a money losing park in need of reducing its footprint...

[KIBeast]

You cant scale down a park that has 10 roller coasters and expect that they will do just as good, say if i bought Cedar Point and i went and said oh this park needs to return to its roots and i start leaving things to rot (raging wolf bobs) leaving a the old water park sbno, tear out not add anything for 4 years, only adding a freaking cornhole game. You just cant expect it to do any good!

Ummm, raging wolf bobs was re-tracked. It only was SBNO for the last season after the accident. I'm lost on that point.

[Venom1994]

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx2oJOp9 Double Loop gone.

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1Wju3S Look on bottom,the tracks laying their.

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1Wju3S Look in middle,the tracks standing all alone.

Thanks to Rideop90's at Geauga Lake Today & Forever.com

[geaugafan2013]

UGH i know Cedar Point really isnt a money losing park but have you realized latley there TTD cam on their site though is always off when no one is in the park and it is always on when people are in the park! No crap it was re-tracked but for the last season they left it sbno they didnt even try to fix it. If they took out 3 things in one season would you be mad cause i think i would i mean seriously you tear out steel venom, x-flight, and the monorail and not add anything you would be mad to. And then a few weeks after the season started raging wolf bobs closes there you go there is only down to 7 coasters out of 10 most people would be mad!

[Cormaster]

This ride was just a clone of "corkscrew" at Cedar Point wasn't it? Meh who cars, Vortex is still the best custom looping coaster...well with the exception of Great American Scream Machine.

[Browntggrr]

^Corkscrew at GL was just a corkscrew, not a clone of CP's Corkscrew.

You cant scale down a park that has 10 roller coasters and expect that they will do just as good,

For a GL fan that claims to respect the history of the park, you really don't know how to add 2+2.

GL HAD 9 coasters prior to SF's purchase of the park.

It was 2 years after SF added all the coasters, that the park started to fail. If the park was not failing under SF, why would they have sold it to CF?

SF added the coasters with the intention of competeing with CP, and failed miserably.

And is was not until 3 years after CF purchased the park from SF that coasters were taken out. And at that point, it was only 2 coasters. Where are you getting the 10 coaster figure from?

Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?

[Rustbucket]

When a coaster does not completely run its course, there is a significant problem.

Terpy, who just had to

Actually, Wicked Twister never completely runs its course............

I just had to also.

[IBEW_Sparky]

I have been thinking about this and reading the responses... and here are my thoughts. First of all, I had a lot of "firsts" at GL with my Family so for me to say Im a little pi$$ed about how the powers that be (soon not to be) B.Sed everyone up until even the last day that "We have no plans to close the ride side of Geauga Lake" would be the understatement of the Millenium. Now having said that... I most definitly agree that SF went a bit ape in the matters of coaster expansion likely in a poorly executed attempt to be a CF killer as has been said. As far as a personal idea of how GL could have been saved goes, well here is my thought and opinion that may or may not have worked. Liquidate the former Sea World side of the park, and relocate a few of the flats (Scrambler, Spider, Pirate Ship) and possibly the motion sim theater to the ride side. Refurbish the existing water park as needed as opposed to spending a load of cash creating WWK. Finally, evaluate the safety and feasibility of keeping RWB post-incident and remove if deemed necessary, and if the decision is made to remove it, use the space for a few more flats to keep its quaint small park image somewhat intact. Like I said, this may have worked, or it may have tanked like WWK is going to... just some personal thoughts from someone who lost a little of himself on 9/16/07.

[The Interpreter]

UGH i know Cedar Point really isnt a money losing park but have you realized latley there TTD cam on their site though is always off when no one is in the park and it is always on when people are in the park! No crap it was re-tracked but for the last season they left it sbno they didnt even try to fix it. If they took out 3 things in one season would you be mad cause i think i would i mean seriously you tear out steel venom, x-flight, and the monorail and not add anything you would be mad to. And then a few weeks after the season started raging wolf bobs closes there you go there is only down to 7 coasters out of 10 most people would be mad!

Last I checked, TTD is still there. And it has not been retracked...ever.

[Outdoor Man]

i think the target of the blame is SF- but if you look at it objectively, it seemed like a relatively small risk to take. With the population centers surrounding the park (Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown, Canton and Pittsburgh and Columbus not too far off)- GL was much better situated to those areas than CP. Had this occured in the 80's GL may have stuck a fatal blow to CP. It was a risk, SF thought they had a shot- they took it, and it didn't go so well. The Worlds of Adventure idea was a great gamble but sometimes they don't work out. Not obtaining the rights to the Sea World side was a fatal shot to CF's chances- but again, adjusting the focus of the park and trying to fill out the land again was a good gamble by CF.... again though it didn't work.

SF's fault- mostly- but i think it was a risk worth taking. I mean if being in the center of a 2-3 million person population that won't support it more than (what was it, 700,000 a year)- there's not much hope.