Son of Beast

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

^ Or CF renovates the coaster, fixes it permanently and is known as the company that resurrected and saved SoB.

Yeah.

Jason Voorhees was resurrected in 'Friday the 13th pt. 6' and still went on killing unsuspecting teens at Camp Crystal Lake.

I'm not sure CF wants to be in the same catagory as Tommy Jarvis.

Wow nice comeback.

Really best comeback you have? And you call yourself a SoB hater.

Really though try not to be ignorant and compare a fake movie to a coaster

[CedarPointer]

^ coming from the associate who does NOT work in AZ or overhear convos about SOB everyday.

I have been sweeping in Action Zone for the last 2 weeks, and can not tell you how many times I had a conversation with guests who, feel SOB should be open and want to ride it. Many never knew it has been closed. Not even joking Out of all the questions and conversations I have had these last 2 weeks, more than 95% have been about Son of Beast ion one way.

And yes I have talked to people who hate it, but they haven been largely dominated by the numbers wanting to ride it.

LOL, actually, I have worked in AZ quite a few times, and where I usually do work, we get questions about it more than you would think. Nice try, though.

[Beast1979]

Sigh. Flame wars are becoming too common on here.

How can we manage to argue over a ride that's been collecting dust for over a year?

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

You may get questions, but one of our benefits is we can actually stop and talk to guests about stuff. Son of Beast has been a very hot topic among guests in AZ. There is no hiding it, without demolition crews.

[Guest Millennium]

I for one hope it stays open. My #1 wish would be for KI to tear it down and put an Intamin prefab there. But that won't happen, and I think it is a fun ride.

[CedarPointer]

You may get questions, but one of our benefits is we can actually stop and talk to guests about stuff. Son of Beast has been a very hot topic among guests in AZ. There is no hiding it, without demolition crews.

They're probably asking because the park is basically pretending that it doesn't exist. And we can talk to guests about stuff too... and we don't have to wear dayglo yellow!

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Yeah, that plaid looks much better. They are asking because, they are not members on KIC, and do not know what going on with the ride. Remember we are a very small percentage of KI guests.

[The Interpreter]

Oh, members of KIC know what is going on with the ride?

Who knew?

And when did they know it?

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

A lot more than the GP does.

Again I have caught MANY guests getting in SOB line, because they don't even realize it not running. Even more ask if it is open

[CedarPointer]

Yeah, that plaid looks much better. They are asking because, they are not members on KIC, and do not know what going on with the ride. Remember we are a very small percentage of KI guests.

My stand doesn't wear plaid.

BTW, the people who ask are the ones who care about the ride. The thousands who don't ask are the people who don't care.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

^ As I have said MANY do ask. So you just helped me out there.

[CedarPointer]

But those MANY still make up a small percentage of the park's guests each day.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

How can you prove those "thousands that don't care" would not ride it if reopened?

[Browntggrr]

Actually, it wasn't "a comeback" at all, especially give the .

But you can call it a lame attempt at humor, I have no problem with that.

Yet, you did open the can of worms....

I already went through the "if it works" scenario. Perhaps you missed it. Here it is again:

And lastly, CF puts in millions more into a ride that has a black eye, and will very likely always have a black eye no matter if the re-engineering actually works or not.

The percentage of another fix working is in the single digits. What is not in the single digits is the cost associated for fixing a ride that was not fun to begin with.

I can relate with the disappointment with those you talked as I was disappointed back in 2000 the numerous times I went to the park only to find SoB down, and that was 10 years ago. And over those 10 years, the State of Ohio Dept. of Agriculture inspected SoB more than any ride. It is a magnificent ride to look at. Too bad the actual ride is not even close.

After I finally rode it, the disappointment grew as I have never been on a ride that shook me up so bad that I actually needed a break. Sure, you can say that I can't handle a rough coaster, but as you can see from Mr. Scheid's comments, I am obviously not alone.

I have also never called myself an SoB hater, just a realist. So please, don't put words in my mouth.

The ride has been a failure from day 1. If it was successful at all, other parks would have jumped on the bandwagon as they all want to compete & 1-up each other. Don't you think it is strange no other park has been willing to even try to *resurrect* the "wooden looping coaster" idea?

[CedarPointer]

How can you prove those "thousands that don't care" would not ride it if reopened?

That doesn't matter, because they are still visiting the park and spending money. What matters is how much money it will bring into the park in terms of ticket, food, games, and merchandise sales from people who are visiting the park because of it. Diamondback itself doesn't make money, what makes money is the people who visited KI last year specifically because we had a new coaster. If they're still visiting the park, it didn't matter if SoB is open or not. What matters is how many people aren't visiting the park because it's not open, or would go out of their way to visit the park if it were open.

[The Interpreter]

...The percentage of another fix working is in the single digits. What is not in the single digits is the cost associated for fixing a ride that was not fun to begin with.

I can relate with the disappointment with those you talked as I was disappointed back in 2000 the numerous times I went to the park only to find SoB down, and that was 10 years ago. And over those 10 years, the State of Ohio Dept. of Agriculture inspected SoB more than any ride. It is a magnificent ride to look at. Too bad the actual ride is not even close.

After I finally rode it, the disappointment grew as I have never been on a ride that shook me up so bad that I actually needed a break. Sure, you can say that I can't handle a rough coaster, but as you can see from Mr. Scheid's comments, I am obviously not alone.

I have also never called myself an SoB hater, just a realist. So please, don't put words in my mouth.

The ride has been a failure from day 1. If it was successful at all, other parks would have jumped on the bandwagon as they all want to compete & 1-up each other. Don't you think it is strange no other park has been willing to even try to *resurrect* the "wooden looping coaster" idea?

One was going to. It was even going to top Son of Beast (just as it later topped the tallest, fastest roller coaster in the world at the time). But, given the track record that the tallest, fastest wooden coaster had, it was decided not to build the first modern wooden coaster with not just one but what would have been a taller, faster wooden coaster with, count them, two loops...

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Actually, it wasn't "a comeback" at all, especially give the .

But you can call it a lame attempt at humor, I have no problem with that.

Yet, you did open the can of worms....

I already went through the "if it works" scenario. Perhaps you missed it. Here it is again:

And lastly, CF puts in millions more into a ride that has a black eye, and will very likely always have a black eye no matter if the re-engineering actually works or not.

The percentage of another fix working is in the single digits. What is not in the single digits is the cost associated for fixing a ride that was not fun to begin with.

I can relate with the disappointment with those you talked as I was disappointed back in 2000 the numerous times I went to the park only to find SoB down, and that was 10 years ago. And over those 10 years, the State of Ohio Dept. of Agriculture inspected SoB more than any ride. It is a magnificent ride to look at. Too bad the actual ride is not even close.

After I finally rode it, the disappointment grew as I have never been on a ride that shook me up so bad that I actually needed a break. Sure, you can say that I can't handle a rough coaster, but as you can see from Mr. Scheid's comments, I am obviously not alone.

I have also never called myself an SoB hater, just a realist. So please, don't put words in my mouth.

The ride has been a failure from day 1. If it was successful at all, other parks would have jumped on the bandwagon as they all want to compete & 1-up each other. Don't you think it is strange no other park has been willing to even try to *resurrect* the "wooden looping coaster" idea?

Wow 1 postive with a negative thrown in. No chance of SoB not being a failure. That being realistic

So your opinion is now fact? You may not of had fun on it, but I did, along with others. So how can you say the ride was not fun to begin with?

According to terpy, there have been other wooden looping coasters.

[The Interpreter]

There certainly were (in the pre-World War II era). Many, many of them. Most were quickly removed for, ironically, causing extreme rider discomfort and injuries. Then again, the loops back then were not ovoid, but circular...

[Browntggrr]

Wow 1 postive with a negative thrown in. No chance of SoB not being a failure. That being realistic

So your opinion is now fact? You may not of had fun on it, but I did, along with others. So how can you say the ride was not fun to begin with?

According to terpy, there have been other wooden looping coasters.

May I suggest reading the whole post (this seems to be a problem area for you) as I see no statement of a "fact":

After I finally rode it, the disappointment grew as I have never been on a ride that shook me up so bad that I actually needed a break. Sure, you can say that I can't handle a rough coaster, but as you can see from Mr. Scheid's comments, I am obviously not alone

Yes, SoB is a failure. What other coaster has the same reputation (i.e. injuries, roughness, modifications, cost) as SoB and still operates today?

[catzdrummer09]

I still do not understand why you insist on being so pessimistic all the time towards a ride. Okay, you don't like it, we get it.

I also do not understand how it constitutes a failure.

Roughness, on a wooden coaster? Never. Just doesn't make sense. There are those who find it's roughness fun and there are those who do not and avoid it. Clearly, you do not, ergo, avoid it.

Modifications? Hello, it's called change. You can't tell me you leave something as it was when you realize, "Oops, that didn't go exactly as planned."

And, if you wan't a similar example. Let's take a look at China shall we? Steel Dragon 2000 was closed for 2 seasons due to an injury caused by a train losing a wheel. Not to mention, the thing already cost $50 Mil.

EDIT: Also, allow me to revert you back to CincyMan's post a couple pages ago.

If they do fix it up, it will remind me of Phantom (Phantom's Revenge) at Kennywood. I hope they can do the same with SOB. Turn a rough, hardcore, injury making monster into a fun, smooth wooden coaster that all can enjoy.

Example number 2.

And you mentioned it being a disappointment due to downtime back in 2000. It's inaugural season. It's brand new. It's going to have problems. Take for example...just about every Intamin on that peninsula jutting into Lake Erie...including STR.

Let's face it. Accidents happen and mistakes are made. Which is when you stand back, take a look and revamp. To say that such a ride is a failure, I believe, is false. It just needs the proper renovations made to make it into what it could be.

[Pagoda Gift Shop]

"Failure" is usually defined in terms of return on investment (ROI) and ride reputation. Son of Beast has failed to deliver on either of these since it opened. However, a ride can always rebuild it's reputation over time (remember Flight of Fear's switch to lap bars?). I hope that SOB can be modified to be better, but it's an uphill battle. Few rides have had such a negative track record to try to overcome, hence the reason they haven't simply re-opened it "as is".

Still, it is a financial failure. Kings Island paid a lot of money to build it and run it which they will not get back. If it ever reopens, maybe it will "break even" from that point onward. Unfortunately, I'm sure that's what the park thought when they put the G-trains on...

[catzdrummer09]

If you make that argument, then I could see it as a valid point. I still don't feel that it is really a failure though. When it get's to the point that they just say, "You know what, we cannot possibly do anything else to this thing to make it work" then I'll agree. Is it a HUGE issue they have on their hands? Definitely. However, CF knew this and proceeded with the purchase anyway. It has tons of potential, just a lot of uncertainty from the owners as well.

And just for the record, I am not a fanboy. I highly enjoy the ride but there are other coasters that take precedence.

[Browntggrr]

Roughness, on a wooden coaster? Never. Just doesn't make sense. There are those who find it's roughness fun and there are those who do not and avoid it. Clearly, you do not, ergo, avoid it.

There are numerous wood coasters that are rough, yet still fun. Voyage is a great example, yet, HW is getting new trains- but for what reason? And still, those same coasters have not had the issues SoB has had.

Modifications? Hello, it's called change. You can't tell me you leave something as it was when you realize, "Oops, that didn't go exactly as planned."

Perhaps "Oops this was a bad idea" needs to be realized. SoB has been modified numerous times with the hope that it could become the coaster it was supposed to be. To this date, none have worked.

And, if you wan't a similar example. Let's take a look at China shall we? Steel Dragon 2000 was closed for 2 seasons due to an injury caused by a train losing a wheel. Not to mention, the thing already cost $50 Mil.

SD's $50 million price tag had nothing to do with the wheel issue, but because the ride sits in a MAJOR earthquake area. BTW, SD is in Japan, not China.

EDIT: Also, allow me to revert you back to CincyMan's post a couple pages ago.

If they do fix it up, it will remind me of Phantom (Phantom's Revenge) at Kennywood. I hope they can do the same with SOB. Turn a rough, hardcore, injury making monster into a fun, smooth wooden coaster that all can enjoy.

SP fell victim to Arrow's normal roughness due to age. SP was also an immensely popular coaster in it's prime. Can the same be said of SoB?

And you mentioned it being a disappointment due to downtime back in 2000. It's inaugural season. It's brand new. It's going to have problems. Take for example...just about every Intamin on that peninsula jutting into Lake Erie...including STR.

Yes, Intamin has had a TERRIBLE track record with their new designs, but within a few years: MF, TTD, WT, and Maverick have undergone modifications and each is operating with great success. SoB is 10 years old with the same issues with two different owners. Is it just bad luck?

Let's face it. Accidents happen and mistakes are made. Which is when you stand back, take a look and revamp. To say that such a ride is a failure, I believe, is false. It just needs the proper renovations made to make it into what it could be.

Again I will ask: What other coaster has the same reputation (i.e. injuries, roughness, modifications, cost) as SoB and still operates today?

[Diamondback96]

...The percentage of another fix working is in the single digits. What is not in the single digits is the cost associated for fixing a ride that was not fun to begin with.

I can relate with the disappointment with those you talked as I was disappointed back in 2000 the numerous times I went to the park only to find SoB down, and that was 10 years ago. And over those 10 years, the State of Ohio Dept. of Agriculture inspected SoB more than any ride. It is a magnificent ride to look at. Too bad the actual ride is not even close.

After I finally rode it, the disappointment grew as I have never been on a ride that shook me up so bad that I actually needed a break. Sure, you can say that I can't handle a rough coaster, but as you can see from Mr. Scheid's comments, I am obviously not alone.

I have also never called myself an SoB hater, just a realist. So please, don't put words in my mouth.

The ride has been a failure from day 1. If it was successful at all, other parks would have jumped on the bandwagon as they all want to compete & 1-up each other. Don't you think it is strange no other park has been willing to even try to *resurrect* the "wooden looping coaster" idea?

One was going to. It was even going to top Son of Beast (just as it later topped the tallest, fastest roller coaster in the world at the time). But, given the track record that the tallest, fastest wooden coaster had, it was decided not to build the first modern wooden coaster with not just one but what would have been a taller, faster wooden coaster with, count them, two loops...

I can't find anything about it on the internet... That just bugs me.

What park was it?

[Browntggrr]

I can't find anything about it on the internet... That just bugs me.

What park was it?

SFGAd I believe....

KK toppled TTD in height & speed.

[The Interpreter]

Much in this world that is truth cannot be found on the Internet, or could not have been until recently. Much of what is on the Internet is crap. Knowing which is which can be hard, and sometimes impossible. In my generation, the same was often said of books, newspapers and 'the media':

* Merely because something is published (by whatever method) does not necessarily make it true (or more or less apt to be).

* Merely because something is not published (by whatever method) does not necessarily make it false (or more or less apt to be).

There are many who think unless something is on the Internet, it is not true. There are others who think if they can find something on the Internet, even in a Wikipedia last edited by an 11 year old in China, it is true. Both groups (and some unfortunates belong to both groups) are equally not correct.

The beauty of the Internet inclues accessibility of information and permanence. Sort of, on both counts.

[Dvo]

Yeah, that plaid looks much better. They are asking because, they are not members on KIC, and do not know what going on with the ride. Remember we are a very small percentage of KI guests.

Glad to be part of such an "Elite" group!

...

[Gturner94]

Well I wouldn't say removing a loop and fixing a lot of Son of Beasts track is Cedar Fair dissing the ride. It also got new trains.

Yes new and improved lighter trains with interesting Racer colors.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Modifications? Hello, it's called change. You can't tell me you leave something as it was when you realize, "Oops, that didn't go exactly as planned."

Perhaps "Oops this was a bad idea" needs to be realized. SoB has been modified numerous times with the hope that it could become the coaster it was supposed to be. To this date, none have worked.

Never knew 1 modification, could become numerous modifications. Son of Beast has had 1 major modification since opening. That was the retracking, removal of loop, and new trains. What other modifications am I missing other than that one modification in 2006-2007

[Shaggy]

Modifications? Hello, it's called change. You can't tell me you leave something as it was when you realize, "Oops, that didn't go exactly as planned."

Perhaps "Oops this was a bad idea" needs to be realized. SoB has been modified numerous times with the hope that it could become the coaster it was supposed to be. To this date, none have worked.

Never knew 1 modification, could become numerous modifications. Son of Beast has had 1 major modification since opening. That was the retracking, removal of loop, and new trains. What other modifications am I missing other than that one modification in 2006-2007

SOB was modified prior to it even opening. Originally, it had 3 trains. However when the coaster was built and began technical testing, the coaster's blocking system could not handle 3 trains without stacking mid-course. So it was modified to only run with two.

SOB was closed abruptly and received a modification following the media event and then again following the first day it was opened to the general public.

After the media event, the coaster was closed and the incline following the large drop had it's ledgers re-inforced and replaced. This delayed it's opening that night to season pass holders.

Following the first day it was open to the public, the coaster was closed abruptly and remained closed until the incline was banked, decreasing the severity of the turn at the top. This was the site of the infamous "jolt" that only the earliest SOB riders felt. Originally, the incline went straight up evenly and there was a severe turn at the top. Because of the sharp turn, trains would fall to the right once gravity took over. That caused riders to be "jolted" to the right side of the train.

When SOB first opened, it was not trimmed or braked at all. The fall from the (then) unused mid-course block break into the loop was the highlight of the ride. After the ride had been open for a week or so, rider's complaints prompted the use of the mid-course to slow the train. However, this served no purpose other than to slow the 2nd half of the ride... the tame part... the complaints were based on the roughness of the rosebowl PRIOR to the mid-course.

About a month after opening, SOB was again modified. It had it's lift slowed, received a kicker tire at the top of the large drop, and trim brakes at the top of the 3rd hill.

SOB's rosebowl was also completely re-tracked after season 1, and the banking at the bottom of the rosebowl was made more severe to aid in the shuffling and eliminate the horrid vibrations riders felt at the base of the helix.