standbyme Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Well we can tell who is from Illinois; lets see threats, blackmail, and intimidation all in one sentence. You will notice that I did not hint/ask for a bribe though...so i'm not a "perfect" Illinoisan...yet. And I must ask, what's wrong with working for McDonald's? It was not at all a slam at any employee of McDonald's...it is just that (whether they want it or not) I pity anyone who has to work at any fast food restaurant...by that I mean behind the counter...I would not wish that job on too many people. I have known people who have had to do it...it is a pretty thankless job. And before goodyellowkorn182 starts analyzing me again...I will admit I do have an inferiority complex when it comes to fast-food employees...anyone who can do that job day-in, day-out and keep smiling is FAR superior to me. Have I dug myself into any new holes with this post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Kid Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Heres my ? for it. what rides would we have for it. I cant think of any rides that we need it for unless we get a new Drop ride like Tower of Terror. Then we can get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TombraiderTy Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I do see a difference...the park has it's REGULAR operating hours...the Gold Pass members are paying extra for the additional operating hour(s)...so a normal pass-holder or ticket holder is not affected...at least not as blatantly as letting people walk right in front of them. But the regular pass-holders have to stand at the end of International Street as Gold Pass-holders get to ride two of the park's coasters. Aren't the Gold Pass-holders practically just "line-jumping" them? To sum up my views, theme parks and amusement parks are still businesses, and they need to continually make a profit. However, a theme park or amusement park should create the idea it's an escape from reality and a place to forget your worries. Having a cheap and affordable line-jumping system available to all guests doesn't wreck this wholesome image. Limiting the numbers sold and only allowing each participant one-time through each attraction would keep the Quick Queue lines to a nearly-non-existent wait, leaving the guests waiting in the regular lines unaffected. Hopefully you can get past this one opinion of mine- it seems we agree on most everything else, however Heres my ? for it. what rides would we have for it. I cant think of any rides that we need it for unless we get a new Drop ride like Tower of Terror. Then we can get one. I've came up with eleven possible rides that could use a "Quick Queue" for various reasons (I may not have the average wait-times down, but I think they give a good idea): Scooby-Doo and the Haunted Castle's Replacement- Gold Pass Speed Lane already exists. Very popular with 15-20 minute waits on an average day. Delirium- GPSL already exists. Very popular with 20-50 minute waits on an average day. Drop Tower- Popular with 15-30 minute waits on an average day. Queue could be added near exit, ending nearby the regular queue's end. Flight of Fear- Very popular with 15-30 minute waits on an average day, 60+ minutes on weekends. A new queue may be a tad complicated, but it could take advantage of the left-side of the stair-case into the UFO. Firehawk- Very popular with 30-50 minute waits on an average day. Queue could be alongside the main queue, joining at the "split", or it could go directly to the station. Vortex- Popular with 5-15 minute waits on an average day. Obviously not a necessary attraction, but a queue could easily be added at the exit. Backlot Stunt Coaster- GPSL already exists. Popular with 10-20 minute waits on an average day. The Beast- GPSL already exists. Popular with 5-20 minute waits on an average day. Diamondback- Very popular with 15-45 minute waits on an average day. Single-rider line could be changed into the Quick Queue line. Wild Thornberry's River Adventure- GPSL already exists. Popular with 5-15 minute waits on an average day. Fairly Odd Coaster- Popular with 5-10 minute waits on an average day. Queue possibly added to exit with a designated Quick Queue seat. Just what I think would make good choices, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Firehawk- Very popular with 30-50 minute waits on an average day. Queue could be alongside the main queue, joining at the "split", or it could go directly to the station. There already is one. It was clearly intended to be a quick-queue system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Having a cheap and affordable line-jumping system available to all guests doesn't wreck this wholesome image. Now it's MY turn for a question that I just have to ask...why is a $10.00-$15.00 charge to line-jump for a day considered "cheap"...yet a 3% tax is considered expensive? I've came up with eleven possible rides that could use a "Quick Queue"... Now why am I not surprised by this?! Yeah...I know...i'm asking for it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Having a cheap and affordable line-jumping system available to all guests doesn't wreck this wholesome image. Now it's MY turn for a question that I just have to ask...why is a $10.00-$15.00 charge to line-jump for a day considered "cheap"...yet a 3% tax is considered expensive? I've came up with eleven possible rides that could use a "Quick Queue"... Now why am I not surprised by this?! Yeah...I know...i'm asking for it now! If you don't have the $10-$15 you don't have to pay it. If you don't have the 3% tax you are not getting in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 If you don't have the $10-$15 you don't have to pay it. If you don't have the 3% tax you are not getting in. I understand that...and I kind of agree that you are right...but I don't really think 3% will keep anyone out if they want to go. (I am not talking about corporate group sales.) My comment WAS meant as just what I found amusing/interesting...a 3% extra charge on a Season Pass for the WHOLE year which would amount to $3 + something is considered too much...but $10-$15 to line jump for ONE DAY is considered fair! I just thought it was funny...that's all...really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gad198 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 There would be very little chance of any virtual queueing system costing $10-$15 at Kings Island. That's way too low a price point IMO and would not come even remotely close to maximizing revenue. What it would do, however, is make it so affordable that everyone would use it, thereby making standby lines move much more slowly. VQing also makes it much more difficult to gauge how long lines are in actuality unless you have some type of computerized monitoring system giving you an estimate on what the regular lines looks like in addition to how many people are VQing. I'm now starting to see the reason why Six Flags usually grossly overestimates wait times because they don't want the backlash in GR if signs prove to be wrong going the other direction. I remember reading on another site that at some point we may see a system where all park patrons VQ. I can't envison that unless they find a way to figure out how to account for ride breakdowns, what happens if someone queues later than their scheduled time, etc. It also seems as though there would be a real lack of efficiency in a system like that. The system would be able to account for the breakdowns, but wouldn't be able to account for people not showing up at their scheduled time (making for more than necessary empty seats), ride ops not moving at optimum efficiency, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 The system I originally brought up is not virtual queueing. You don't have to wait. It's a wristband / lanyard system, such as what is used at Universal or Busch Parks, and does not utilize any sort of mechanical thing, like a Q-bot or ticket distribution machine. And really, no matter what the system is (Fastpass, Q-Bot, or a wristband system), there will never be a day when the secondary queue is full and the standby line is zero. By their very nature, they balance eachother out, such that, in an instance where there were more people in the secondary queue, folks would just opt for the standby. If the Fastpass line was 2 hours and the standby line was 5 minutes, which do you think newly-arriving people would stand in? And besides, it would never get to that extreme since people will always opt for the shorter line, given the time and choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TombraiderTy Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Several users don't seem to realize that a Quick Queue would not greatly affect the standard queue. By limiting the number of Quick Queue passes sold each day and only allowing each guests to use their Quick Queue pass once per an attraction would keep the second queue short. Also, the fact that various people would go to various Quick Queue attractions through-out the day (compared to a flood of all the same Quick Queue guests at once to a single attraction) would keep the wait-times down for all guests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gad198 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 If the Fastpass line was 2 hours and the standby line was 5 minutes, which do you think newly-arriving people would stand in? And besides, it would never get to that extreme since people will always opt for the shorter line, given the time and choice. That totally depends on how they allocate seats. If they're allowing 100% Fastpass usage first and then (and only then) taking from the standby line then you'd opt for the Fastpass line. Front of the line privileges are entirely different altogether. I think we can agree on the fact that the more people use VQ/Fastpass, etc. the slower the standby lines become (as long as you're dealing with a fixed capacity). EDIT: ^ I completely agree with the Quick Queue assessment. The key phrase in that sentence is "limiting the number" of passes. My original thought was that if you make that privilege too cheap then you're no longer in that realm because there would be a lot of people using the passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Kid Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Firehawk- Very popular with 30-50 minute waits on an average day. Queue could be alongside the main queue, joining at the "split", or it could go directly to the station. There already is one. It was clearly intended to be a quick-queue system. I have no idea how many times I have pointed out that for a SRL and people say that the handicaped people wouldnt like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveStroem Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I just remembered that KD had something called walk on wednesdays. With your gold/PP you got 1 voucher for each of their major rides. We weren't there on a wednesday, but I liked the idea. I mentioned this on the KDfansite and was told that it was a flop due to the fact that most wednesdays were walk on with or without the vouchers. I would love to see something like this for GP/PP folks every day of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Kings Island once did, too. They were quietly dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 No matter how much anyone tries to say that this system will not affect the stand by line, they're incorrect. It's a direct relationship. The longer the line is, the more people are going to use the quick system. More people use the quick system, the longer the line will get. Also with a system like this you cannot have only a couple seats set off to the side. What if a swell of people comes up? Once people pay money for a system like this, they are not going to accept any excuse for why they cannot get on instantly. No one will be okay with "well we can only put 4 people on at a time,"when there are now 25 people who each spent $20 so they could get on now. Believe me, I've been to Universal on the lightest and heaviest days. No one in that line will accept any excuse as to why they cannot get on NOW. Then because of that it just backs up the standby line even more, causing those in the standby line to get upset. (though the general consensus is usually pretty negative toward those in the express lane already) At least at Disney, fastpass only promises a minimal wait and is FREE. Bottom line, free! There is little excuse for bitterness at Disney as the system is available to everyone at no additional charge. Personally, I am opposed to any system that allows you to cut in front of other guests for money. Honestly, how much different is an express system from a sign that says: "Line Jumping is Not a Sporting Event Here at Kings Island, It is Illegal Procedure and is Cause for Dismissal from the Park. Unless you Pay the $25 Charge up at Guest Relations; Then it is Permitted." or just: "Line Jumping is allowed only for those who can afford it." How is a guest suppose to respond when they see someone walk up and get right on while they've been waiting for 45min; ask why that guest was allowed on ahead of them; and are told that the guest was permitted to ride ahead of them with no wait because they paid to do so? I think it makes the park look sleazy. Like they're willing to do anything to make a buck. Even make you wait longer because they sold your seat to a higher bidder. It is for this reason that Fastpass at Disney will always be free. It's considerably more difficult to argue and dislike a system when its available to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 ...It is for this reason that Fastpass at Disney will always be free. It's considerably more difficult to argue and dislike a system when its available to everyone. (emphasis added) a. Charging has been tested at Disneyland Paris, I seem to recall. b. Management changes, philosophies change, times change. c. Virtually nothing is forever. And that includes a free Fastpass system. d. I seriously believe that Fastpass at Disney will NOT always be free. In fact, I think it far more likely that at some point, perhaps next year, perhaps 10 years from now, but at some point, Fastpass will not be free. Indeed, for public relations purposes, the replacement-not free-system may be renamed. I see the free Fastpass system ending. The only question in my mind is when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 The Disney fast pass is limited isn't it? I don't think there is enough for everyone. If I pay for a Universal Express I know I will have one and can use it when I want to unlike the free ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Honestly, how much different is an express system from a sign that says: "Line Jumping is Not a Sporting Event Here at Kings Island, It is Illegal Procedure and is Cause for Dismissal from the Park. Unless you Pay the $25 Charge up at Guest Relations; Then it is Permitted." As Homer Simpson would say "It's funny....because it's true". Thanks for posting that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerRider Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I think that Kings Island has always been a one price park. Adding this would be like saying, "You just spent 35 bucks to ride all of our rides, now for 25 dollars more you can have even more fun!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 It's a direct relationship. The longer the line is, the more people are going to use the quick system. More people use the quick system, the longer the line will get. Also with a system like this you cannot have only a couple seats set off to the side. What if a swell of people comes up? Once people pay money for a system like this, they are not going to accept any excuse for why they cannot get on instantly. No one will be okay with "well we can only put 4 people on at a time,"when there are now 25 people who each spent $20 so they could get on now. Believe me, I've been to Universal on the lightest and heaviest days. No one in that line will accept any excuse as to why they cannot get on NOW. Then because of that it just backs up the standby line even more, causing those in the standby line to get upset. (though the general consensus is usually pretty negative toward those in the express lane already) The thing is, nearly every major theme park operator besides Disney and Cedar Fair utilizes a front-of-the-line access system that costs money, and none of their parks are dealing with excruciatingly long lines and patrons who feel cheated and local news authority who believe that the parks are underhanded and catering to the wealthy... None of that happens at the parks in question. I've been at Universal, SeaWorld, and Busch Gardens, on both sides of the express lines, and have never encountered (or been) a person to demand a seat. Only two middle rows were roped off on Alpengeist, so even in the express lane, I had to wait three or four cycles. There were probably a half dozen people behind me who had to wait longer still, but the point all along seemed to be that waiting 15 minutes is an improvement over an hour. How is that any different than Fastpass? Busch Gardens: $60 admission + $15 QuickQueue Disney: $85 admission + $0 Fastpass. So in a sense, Fastpass is only for the wealthy, too, since Disney somewhat includes it in park admission (thereby making the whole park "only for the wealthy"). Certainly some of that $80 ($113 for a one-day with parkhopper) goes towards maintaining those distribution machines, hiring the extra employees to oversee the Fastpass entrance, etc. It's something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I think that Kings Island has always been a one price park. Adding this would be like saying, "You just spent 35 bucks to ride all of our rides, now for 25 dollars more you can have even more fun!" But, but, but: * Thunder Alley * The Skycoaster: Xtreme Skyflyer * Slingshot * Helicopter rides over the park/area. * Euro-Bungee aka Launchpad * The Safari... Not one of these is/was included in the pay one price, or wasn't at least for a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 So in a sense, Fastpass is only for the wealthy, too, since Disney somewhat includes it in park admission (thereby making the whole park "only for the wealthy"). There will always be things that are out of reach for everyone...even Bill Gates...and I accept that. With 5 kids in my family, and only my father working my family could not afford to go to Disney all while I was growing up...but we always found fun things to do...and Kings Island was always the "topper" when we would go. I still just like it that once you are somewhere that everyone is "even". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'm a lot younger and less-experienced than you, but so far I've never been anywhere where everything is even. Or even remotely even. Trust me, we live in one of the fairest nations on Earth, but you'll never know how uneven things are until you're a minority, or even think like a minority. That's a bit philisophical for a Kings Island discussion, but ought to be noted. As Terpy said, It's $35 to get in, but if you want to really have fun, and have the full experience, it'll range anywhere from $20 - $50 extra regardless. Something to consider! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'm a lot younger and less-experienced than you... OH...so we're gonna start insulting each other eh?! I've never been anywhere where everything is even. Or even remotely even. Believe me, I know that...and the OLDER you get the more you notice it...but like I stated way back in my first post in this thread...it doesn't mean I have to agree with it or help it along...to do that is to admit defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 How is that any different than Fastpass? Busch Gardens: $60 admission + $15 QuickQueue Disney: $85 admission + $0 Fastpass. So in a sense, Fastpass is only for the wealthy, too, since Disney somewhat includes it in park admission (thereby making the whole park "only for the wealthy"). Certainly some of that $80 ($113 for a one-day with parkhopper) goes towards maintaining those distribution machines, hiring the extra employees to oversee the Fastpass entrance, etc. It's something to think about. Sorry; I just can not let this go unchallenged. Goodyellowkorn182 please understand this is not meant to single you out as I use you post to dispel comparisons but I always try to make sure members on here and those who read here that an Orlando vacation is more affordable than many think. Yes it does cost some money as every vacation does but many times I read unfair caparisons and worry that some may shy away from a great vacation after reading so many extreme comparisons. First lets make sure the readers understand that Disney World has four parks and offers those who wish to visit 2-4 parks in the same day a park hopper option which runs $55.83 (including tax) for those who use the Magic Your Way tickets that option is the same price if you buy a one day ticket or a ten day ticket. So if you bought the option with a 10 day ticket it would only cost you an average of $5.83 per day. I think it would be foolish for anyone to buy the Park Hopper option for a one or two day pass. Yet many try to use that example to show how expensive Disney is and Universal tries to use that analogy too, which I think hurts them but that is for another topic. A one day ticket to one of Disney World runs for $79 but with tax it costs $84.14Busch Gardens runs the same price but they are currently running a special that adults can buy a one day ticket for the Childs price of $64.95 then with $4.55 tax it comes to $69.50. So using the example above here is the figure I came up with Busch Gardens $69.50 admission (on special) + $14.95 (or up to $24.95 depending on the season) for Quick Queue = $84.95 depending on the day or season Disney $84.14 (year round) admission + $0 (year round) for Fast Pass Comparison depending on the year but we will use Busch parks sale price $84.95 For Busch Gardens for both admission and Quick Queue (Special Price) $84.14 for Disney and Fast Pass (year round) So Disney comes out a $0.81 cheaper than Busch Gardens does with their year round price versus Busch Garden special price. As I have said before and will say as many times as I need to; when you add it all up the Central Florida parks all cost about the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOPGUN1993 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Does anyone remember the "Ticket Punch Cards" for Walk on Wednesdays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TombraiderTy Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 No matter how much anyone tries to say that this system will not affect the stand by line, they're incorrect. In rare situations, a Quick Queue may result in a few extra minutes tacked onto the regular queue. However, if the system is done properly, there shouldn't be a fear of this happening. Back at Cedar Point in 2004, my Dad and I entered the regular line for Wicked Twister. The employee at the entrance said it would be about a 30 minute await. However, in the middle of the line (and only a few feet in front of us), they let the guests with hand-stamps (an older, no-wait system) into the main line. Instead of letting a few of them in, then the standby queue, then more hand-stamps, they let all the hand-stamps in at once. We ended-up waiting an hour, thanks to the sudden surplus of hand-stamped guests. This is an example of poorly operating a Quick Queue. Instead, the employee stationed at the meeting-point of the two queues should let 5-10 Quick Queue guests in (without breaking-up groups), then 20-30 regular queue guests in. With the already-limited number of guests in the Quick Queue, the line shouldn't top a few minutes. It is for this reason that Fastpass at Disney will always be free. It's considerably more difficult to argue and dislike a system when its available to everyone. As Terpy said, however, that may not be true- I remember a recent rumor that Disney guests staying at the "nicer" hotels on property may get priority access to the FastPass system soon. I think that Kings Island has always been a one price park. Adding this would be like saying, "You just spent 35 bucks to ride all of our rides, now for 25 dollars more you can have even more fun!" One price park? Not even close... After paying admission, you may still spend money on meals, souvenirs, pay-attractions, Boomerang Bay cabanas, midway games, wheelchair or stroller rentals, or anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Does anyone remember the "Ticket Punch Cards" for Walk on Wednesdays? Just counting down the moments 'til The Interpreter "answers" your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerRider Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 [quote name='goodyellowkorn182' post='350869' date='Dec 5 2009, 12:31 PM]I'm a lot younger and less-experienced than you, but so far I've never been anywhere where everything is even. Or even remotely even. Trust me, we live in one of the fairest nations on Earth, but you'll never know how uneven things are until you're a minority, or even think like a minority. That's a bit philisophical for a Kings Island discussion, but ought to be noted. As Terpy said, It's $35 to get in, but if you want to really have fun, and have the full experience, it'll range anywhere from $20 - $50 extra regardless. Something to consider! I think that Kings Island has always been a one price park. Adding this would be like saying, "You just spent 35 bucks to ride all of our rides, now for 25 dollars more you can have even more fun!" Are you talking about this post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 No...he's talking about my reply to your post: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=350861 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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