The Interpreter Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 See also: Six Flags Sought To Pay For Park Only If It Made Money http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100205/BUSINESS/2050349/Six+Flags+sought+to+pay+for+park+only+if+it+made+money The article also says the fair board intends to find another operator for the waterpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 See also: Six Flags Sought To Pay For Park Only If It Made Money http://www.courier-j...f+it+made+money The article also says the fair board intends to find another operator for the waterpark. Good luck with that. They shot themselves in the foot with their arrogance. These local bureaucrats trying to squeeze every nickel out of their businesses is only hurting them in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 See also: Six Flags Sought To Pay For Park Only If It Made Money http://www.courier-j...f+it+made+money The article also says the fair board intends to find another operator for the waterpark. Good luck with that. They shot themselves in the foot with their arrogance. These local bureaucrats trying to squeeze every nickel out of their businesses is only hurting them in the long run. I agree... both Abramson and Workman are tremendously arrogant, Workman has a history of being very difficult with tenants of the Fairgrounds. The monies obtained from SFKK's lease, as well as parking were not used to better Louisville. That money went straight to Frankfort and using Workmans own words "Funded the Fair Board." Hmmmm... the Fairground was recently under investigation due to the health and safety board finding deteriorating facilities as well as extreme violations in the concession areas. Trust me, it was horrifically gross. (Don't ever buy anything deep-fried from the permanent food booths at the Fair.) So I guess we can rule out the money being used to keep the fairgrounds rat and roach free. On the flip side, Shapiro is no saint either. He's the head of SF and seems to have an arrogance of his own. But he's calling the shots on this one. The public statements being made by Workman and Abramson are just face talk... trying to downplay the furor facing them. As far as finding another operator for the waterpark... yeah right. Not if it's levelled. I bet Shapiro is already ordering the bulldozers. Shaggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KI Kevin Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Two days after the announcement and I'm still a bit numb. I'm tremendously disappointed, though I'm not sure how to feel. I now will not have a fun park to go to in Louisville with my cousins. It's great Holiday World is operating, and I'd be very happy if this closing could benefit HW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 This article quotes a representative of the fair board who contends the rides belong to the fair board, or at least some of them do: ...Harold Workman, Ky. Fair Board President, said, "Six Flags removed the Chang rollercoaster ride. They requested they able to remove it through me they requested that under the pretense that they were going to expand the water park and after showing me diagrams and pictures of what they were going to expand and what they were going to add and so on. So, we're a little disappointed in the fact they removed a ride but never really moved on expanding the water park." He said that at that point, the way the lease is worded makes it sounds like Chang could have belonged to the Fair Board because it is affixed to the ground. Workman says Six Flags wanted to pay no rent for nine years remaining on the lease. The offer also included a share of profits, if there was any. http://www.whas11.co...e-83772172.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav86 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 No matter how you look at it, removing rides, especially rollercoasters is not a cheap project. You just don't hire a group of guys from the Home Depot parking lot to come out and take a ride apart. It's going to require people that know what they are doing and that costs money. Something you don't have alot of if your in bankruptcy. Six Flags makes the statement that they are going to move the rides to other parks, well unless they were planing on pulling out of Kentucky last year, I don't see where they would be able to get the capital to dismantle, move and build any ride worth moving. They would have had to built that into a budget for 2010 (which would have been planned in the fall of 2009) with whatever park they are planing to move the ride to. This wasn't a last minute thought process, Snyder & Shapiro have been planing this out for awhile. The Fair Board just made it easier for them to cry foul and leave. Hopefully one of the other operators will get the park and run it right. (only if they can get a lease with the fair board that makes sense) Uh huh. As for ride removal, that depends on the terms of the lease. As for the $2.2 million payment, the bankruptcy court may have other ideas. Reorganization in bankruptcy allows the tenant-bankrupt the opportunity to reject the lease, as Six Flags has here. Normally, then the terms of the lease as to penalties for early termination no longer apply. To the extent the rides are the bankrupt's property, the Commonwealth of Kentucky and the Fair Board have no rights to take them. If they do, they can be accused of theft...and held in contempt of the bankruptcy court to boot. I'd proceed very carefully if I were the lessor here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 ...a judge may have to decide one other conflict - who owns the rides? "Today there's a difference of opinion with the Fair Board feeling secure that those rides are attached to the ground are owned by the Fair Board and Six Flags has expressed their opinion that they own the rides," said Heiner. An emergency resolution was filed Monday to show the Metro Council is behind keeping the park open. It will be read and voted on Thursday night's meeting of the full council. http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=11953770 The article also states Six Flags has moved for a rejection of the lease in bankruptcy court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerRider Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Quality beats quantity every time. AMEN. As much as I love Cedar Point, I only truly enjoy 7 of their 17 coasters. More is not always better.. it's kind of like people who think that because Dragster is CP's tallest, it has to be CP's best. I'll take a ride on Magnum XL-200, Blue Streak, Raptor, or Maverick over TTD any day. IMO, more coasters don't always equal a better park, and taller coasters don't always mean a better coaster. O my Gosh, please tell that to this kid in my class. "Cedar Point is the best park in the world because it has so many coasters, and one is the tallest in the world." I know TTD is not the tallest in the world I tell them. They do not believe me. Thats the problem today. "Lets go to walmart because they have everythng!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 And the tallest roller coaster in the world is currently in New Jersey. Not only is it, in the opinion of most, not the best roller coaster in the world, it's not even the best roller coaster in that park according to most of the patrons who visit that park. Some would say it is not even as good as the second tallest roller coaster in the world, but that's a whole nother subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Well, being a jolly green giant you typically don't get that many rides in the night row.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 And the sad thing is this...it's going to be very difficult--strike that--probably impossible--to get rides on Thunder Run now...or so it appears. Perhaps the saga of Kentucky Kingdom isn't completely over yet. It is important to cherish what we have while we have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerRider Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 And the tallest roller coaster in the world is currently in New Jersey. Not only is it, in the opinion of most, not the best roller coaster in the world, it's not even the best roller coaster in that park according to most of the patrons who visit that park. Some would say it is not even as good as the second tallest roller coaster in the world, but that's a whole nother subject. One perfect example of a ride like this is The Racer. It is very well one of my favorite coasters of all time. It may out shine The Beast. (A ride that I also love.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rcfreak339 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Park News - (2/10/10) A local area reader tells us that they’ve heard Compagnie des Alpes has starting talks with the Kentucky State Fairgrounds board about the possibility of taking over the Kentucky Kingdom property. CdA currently operates a number of attractions and theme parks in Europe including the Walibi parks, Bellewaerde, Hellendoorn and Parc Asterix. From screamscape...Could this company be the savior for this park? It very well could be...It's taken over 2 European Parks that were once Six Flags owned and they all are ran very nicely. Kentucky Kingdom isn't dead just yet folks! Heres a link to the company, it's a French based Entertainment company and Kentucky Kingdom would be a perfect fit for them.... http://www.compagniedesalpes.com/en/parcs.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coney Islander Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 That would be wonderful! I bet if they marketed Kentucky Kingdom as 'the only leisure park in the midwest', they'd increase Kentucky Kingdom's popularity a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Given how "easy" the Fair Board has been to deal with (ask Six Flags or virtually any of the vendors there), I somehow don't hold out a great deal of hope for this one. IF I were a park company, I would insist on owning any property I developed at the Kentucky Kingdom site. Given the site's access, location and assets, I would think there are far better choices for development by a new entrant into the US market. I can also think of similar distressed properties on the market...such as Freestyle Music Park, which has some of the same issues, but not all of them. Kentucky Kingdom also has some issues that Freestyle appears not to, such as the height restrictions due to the airport. The US theme park business is a mature one, and I doubt any company will give the Fair Board the financial bonanza it is probably hoping for. Perhaps this lease rejection by Six Flags was a wake-up call, but I doubt it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigacoaster2k Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I was talking to an old friend I hadn't seen in a while, and we got to discussing amusement parks. I told her SFKK closed, and she was upset because she and her fiance had wanted to go. I told her about the lease, and her reply was "That was their excuse? Don't most amusement parks OWN the land they're on? That sounds like it wasn't a good idea to begin with. It sounds like the park was temporary, like it was doomed from the start." I hate to say it, but I see her point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 California's Great America is also on leased property. Six Flags Discovery Kingdom was until shortly before the bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerRider Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I wonder how Kings Island would be treated with taxes if their land was leased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 You mean the proposed admissions tax? I doubt it would have affected anything. Other taxes? Lessors pay higher taxes on real estate in most states. This would of course be passed on to Kings Island, who would then have to build it into their costs. Fortunately, Kings Island owns its property, though, like all other Cedar Fair property, it is pledged to the creditors who are financing Cedar Fair's huge debt, most of which was incurred in buying Paramount Parks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 It's pretty common in the hotel business for the building to sit on leased land. A lot of hotels implemented "sale-lease back" deals in the 90s & 00s where they would sell the land their hotels sat on, then lease it back from the new owner. (It was a quick & easy way to monetize thousands of acres of real estate.) The concept was perfected by Steven Bollenbach (former Disney CFO) while he was at Marriott, and copied by a lot of other hotel chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Many office buildings owned by major corporations did the same thing. Ashland, Inc., comes immediately to mind. There are definite tax advantages to doing this. Also, many times, the lessor is actually an affiliate of the lessee, but not legally (just in reality). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 It's pretty common in the hotel business for the building to sit on leased land. ... The concept was perfected by Steven Bollenbach (former Disney CFO) while he was at Marriott, and copied by a lot of other hotel chains. And perhaps that's why [Marriott's] Great America is on leased land! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 ...in California... NOT the one that was/is in Illinois... Terpy, tryin' to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 i went to sfkk annually from about 1997 to 2003 (whenever greased lightning came) at which point it just became a useless trip since the rides remained the same, and you were lucky to catch all of them operating. i wish this park went back to the days before six flags. Mr. Hart added "Hellevator", "t2", "chang" and "twisted twins" in a four year period (95-98) which i believe is what originally made it so attractive for six flags to pursue. the park was thriving and clearly on the way up, then came SF. i cannot help but wonder what would have become of the park had it never been sold in the first place. so sad to see it go. Thunder Run was / is one of my favorite woodies. gonna miss that park. i'm all about bringing back the flying dutchman to KI! haha Trust me, you didn't miss much when it comes to T2. Rattlebox is putting it mildly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 If you are interested in Kentucky Kingdom, you will want to read this: http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100210/NEWS01/2100389/Fair+board+may+seek+new+amusement+park+operator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster_junky Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I think the fair board so try to get disney to build a park here. hmm... i doubt that would happen, disney buying property the size of a postage stamp, with no room to expand, no way to build one of the fairytale princesses' castle due to the height limit. that's very far fetched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 If you are interested in Kentucky Kingdom, you will want to read this: http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100210/NEWS01/2100389/Fair+board+may+seek+new+amusement+park+operator Please please please please with every fiber of my being PLEASE let one of these go through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini_Cooper Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 If you are interested in Kentucky Kingdom, you will want to read this: http://www.courier-j...t+park+operator Please please please please with every fiber of my being PLEASE let one of these go through! I hope that this really goes through. A lot of the people rely on this park for a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rcfreak339 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Atleast 4 Park owners are intrested in buying Kentucky Kingdom. http://www.whas11.com/home/At-least-4-amusement-parks-interested-in-taking-place-of-Six-Flags-84046527.html Louisville, Ky. (WHAS11) - What's next for the fairgrounds now that Six Flags says it's closing up shop on Kentucky Kingdom?WHAS11 News has confirmed that at least four amusement park companies have contacted the state fair board with interest about possibly taking over. Fair board officials tell WHAS11 News that it is taking Six Flags at its word; that a new lease won't be negotiated, and that they are leaving town. Last week Six Flags said it would close Kentucky Kingdom and Monday, said the decision was final, filing a motion in bankruptcy court to not accept the fair board's current lease. Kentucky Kingdom and Six Flags do not own the land where the amusement park sits. They leave it from the state fairgrounds. This is looking very good, In my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Uh, you just posted the exact information contained in the Courier-Journal article I posted earlier today: http://www.KICentral...ndpost&p=361364 About which, see my post here: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20717&view=findpost&p=361278 I will believe there is a deal with a new operator when it happens, not before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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