Backlot Stunt Coaster Trains Being Stripped of Their Theming

[The Interpreter]

The amount of money that Nick was demanding for a renewal would take your breath away. If it had been cheaper to retain the Nick licensing than to convert to Planet Snoopy, that is exactly what would have happened. The Board of Directors of Cedar Fair and Mr. Kinzel each have a fiduciary duty to do that which is in the best interests of the company, and one would assume they would do so.

[thunderbeast1968]

The amount of money that Nick was demanding for a renewal would take your breath away. If it had been cheaper to retain the Nick licensing than to convert to Planet Snoopy, that is exactly what would have happened. The Board of Directors of Cedar Fair and Mr. Kinzel each have a fiduciary duty to do that which is in the best interests of the company, and one would assume they would do so.

Wow, was not aware

[CoastersRZ]

Well think about it, Nickelodeon is pretty much the in brand for children television shows. And since the parks were no longer under the same umbrella there were not synergies to be had by licensing the Nickelodeon content to the parks. So Nickelodeon could request a pretty hefty fee. And as Interpreter said, it likely was cheaper for the parks to rebrand their kids areas to Planet Snoopy. And as I`ve said before, when it comes down to it, most kids will not really notice much of a difference.

[Tomkatt7]

The amount of money that Nick was demanding for a renewal would take your breath away. If it had been cheaper to retain the Nick licensing than to convert to Planet Snoopy, that is exactly what would have happened. The Board of Directors of Cedar Fair and Mr. Kinzel each have a fiduciary duty to do that which is in the best interests of the company, and one would assume they would do so.

Wow, was not aware

No disrespect intended, but if anyone else threw this statement out there, we would get jumped right away.

"Cite, your source"! "Don't state opinion as fact".

Now, maybe you do know the number, I have no idea. To just throw out a bland idea like that has no credibility.

What is a breath taking number? 10 million a year for 10 years? 100 million?

I am one of the people that was/is very disappointed to see Nick U leave. The argument about why it is being replaced is always blamed on money. I have done it myself. I would just hope that if money is really the reason, that someone would say, "Yeah, we switched to Snoopy because Nick wanted 20 million dollars a year to renew, and we got Snoopy for 1 million, saving enough money to completely retheme the area, and still save money".

[bkroz]

One thing that I'm surprised you haven't learned after such a long time here, Tomkatt, is that The Interpreter often has to "choose his words very, very carefully." There was a time when I thought what you said - he rarely offered sources and everything seemed like an opinion. Getting to know him, though, you'll find that he has sources, and plenty of them. I imagine most people, even those within Cedar Fair's employment, do not know exact numbers. And quite frankly, there's probably a good reason.

Besides, it's really common sense - if it was cheaper to renew the Nick contract, they would have renewed the Nick contract... It was apparently cheaper to essentially re-do five kids areas from scratch than to renew the Nick contract... 2 + 2 = the Nick contract was very expensive.

Separately, perhaps Viacom did not want the parks to continue to use Nickelodeon, and thus charged an outrageous amount? Could they do that?

[shark6495]

anyone could do anything.....

with that being said what you want and what a business will do, well most likely that will never happen. It would be nice for a company to be transparent in everything it does, but it does not work like that. Sometimes you dont tell everyone every reason for the reasons you do things.

[Tomkatt7]

One thing that I'm surprised you haven't learned after such a long time here, Tomkatt, is that The Interpreter often has to "choose his words very, very carefully." There was a time when I thought what you said - he rarely offered sources and everything seemed like an opinion. Getting to know him, though, you'll find that he has sources, and plenty of them. I imagine most people, even those within Cedar Fair's employment, do not know exact numbers. And quite frankly, there's probably a good reason.

Besides, it's really common sense - if it was cheaper to renew the Nick contract, they would have renewed the Nick contract... It was apparently cheaper to essentially re-do five kids areas from scratch than to renew the Nick contract... 2 + 2 = the Nick contract was very expensive.

Separately, perhaps Viacom did not want the parks to continue to use Nickelodeon, and thus charged an outrageous amount? Could they do that?

I know that the Terp has his sources, I was just head scratching for a minute.

I have mentioned in the past that the change was all about money, but then I was told not necessarily.

My personal opinion, LOL, Is that with Viacom opening their parks in the big mall, and in Louisiana, I think, that they wanted to have a proprietary park. A small scale Disney of sorts. The best way to do that? Jack up the existing parks using the license to where they would be crazy to re new it. My point is, with all the information that is ultimately leaked, why hasn't the license amount came out yet. Maybe I am speaking for just myself here but, I would be a lot more apt to embrace the changes at the park if management came out said what the price to renew Nick was going to be. Now, before you say it's not my business, and they don't have to reveal that info, I will reply by saying that pro athletes salaries are released even though they may not be necessary for me to know, it helps me understand why when two different players have equal numbers, one gets cut, the other does not. I hope I am making my point clearly, I have a tendency to ramble, and no, I was not just poking The Interpreter with a stick!

[shark6495]

One thing that I'm surprised you haven't learned after such a long time here, Tomkatt, is that The Interpreter often has to "choose his words very, very carefully." There was a time when I thought what you said - he rarely offered sources and everything seemed like an opinion. Getting to know him, though, you'll find that he has sources, and plenty of them. I imagine most people, even those within Cedar Fair's employment, do not know exact numbers. And quite frankly, there's probably a good reason.

Besides, it's really common sense - if it was cheaper to renew the Nick contract, they would have renewed the Nick contract... It was apparently cheaper to essentially re-do five kids areas from scratch than to renew the Nick contract... 2 + 2 = the Nick contract was very expensive.

Separately, perhaps Viacom did not want the parks to continue to use Nickelodeon, and thus charged an outrageous amount? Could they do that?

I know that the Terp has his sources, I was just head scratching for a minute.

I have mentioned in the past that the change was all about money, but then I was told not necessarily.

My personal opinion, LOL, Is that with Viacom opening their parks in the big mall, and in Louisiana, I think, that they wanted to have a proprietary park. A small scale Disney of sorts. The best way to do that? Jack up the existing parks using the license to where they would be crazy to re new it. My point is, with all the information that is ultimately leaked, why hasn't the license amount came out yet. Maybe I am speaking for just myself here but, I would be a lot more apt to embrace the changes at the park if management came out said what the price to renew Nick was going to be. Now, before you say it's not my business, and they don't have to reveal that info, I will reply by saying that pro athletes salaries are released even though they may not be necessary for me to know, it helps me understand why when two different players have equal numbers, one gets cut, the other does not. I hope I am making my point clearly, I have a tendency to ramble, and no, I was not just poking The Interpreter with a stick!

I think that the numbers come out, for athletes, to help athletes. Its not because of the business. I think its more that the agent will use those numbers to help their player. Taking our own local pro-team (bengals) and their owner (MB). Brown does not release his spread sheets to anyone. If it was up to that business (same with baseball, etc) the salaries may never be known. But they are released to help make bigger future deals. (if this is disjointed I apologize, little sleep and pain killers)

Plus releasing numbers wouldnt help me "accept" the change....... lol

[The Interpreter]

Also, VIACOM doesn't operate any parks...it, so far at least, is licensing its intellectual property to those who pay what it wants in a particular market and build/operate to its standards. The Minnesota situation is particularly interesting...in that Mall of America's amusement facility was formerly Camp Snoopy operated by Cedar Fair under a management contract. Within a short distance of Valleyfair. There were numerous tactical reasons why VIACOM licensed that Mall facility...not least of which was to send certain messages to then current licensees.

[KIBOB]

And wait for 040810.

No one knows what happens next.

These could even soon be the "good old days."

Stranger things have happened.

Or the dark before the dawn.

Which?

That's the Q.

Where is Universal when you need them?

[bkroz]

Where is Universal when you need them?

Ugh. Tell me about it.

[Thrill_Biscuit]

As long as the licensing on the Eiffel Tower doesn't run out, I'll be fine. ...OH DARN!!

[StalkerChick]

I'm saying that, if the parks were all put up for sale individually, we'd be picked up fast. We're easily in the top 3 best themed of the Cedar Fair parks (alongside Kings Dominion and Knott's) and have an amazing (and well-rounded) assortment of rides.

And what you said is something I've been afraid of for a while: That, even should Cedar Fair slowly and painfully "die" in bankruptcy, they'll hold onto Kings Island with a stranglehold for fear that someone can use it against Cedar Point, or even just that they think its one of their few "winning" parks. They could, and it is. The fact that they'd rather strip the park (or, to zoom into a microcosm, this ride) of nearly every single thing it had when it opened than to pay for a few simple licenses here and there... And that they'd rather reduce it to the image posted in the first post above says a lot... It really does.

And if the issue is that they don't have enough money to afford to buy licenses here and there... Then they probably shouldn't own amusement parks.

*FACEPALMS*Ok now that thats over with... 1. you're really saying KD's theming is one of the best?! and ours?! Have you been there lately?! Out of the parks I've seen Carowinds is by far the most themed. They still have the jet outside of their old "Top Gun". 2. they're in this debt in large part from purchasing these parks, knowing/hoping in the long run (not the short) that it'll turn around and be worth it.

but lets just face it.....we are in a recession...so is CF....so its not like if any other park buys them its all gonna get better with a snap of the finger's.....

I tend to think that, should Universal buy Kings Island (a longshot, don't get me wrong, but its a hypothetical) things would get very good, very fast. Not saying that Universal would buy Kings Island, just that things would probably get better "in the snap of a finger" if they did. Do you think that The Crypt in its current state would operate for even an hour under Universal's leadership? Do you think Backlot Stunt Coaster would have trains as were posted in the first post of this thread? Do you think "Flight Deck" would be the name of a ride at Universal's Kings Island?

Also, here's an idea: Backlot Stunt Coaster... with Dale Earnhardt themed? Why not! Maybe, just maybe, licensing from NASCAR includes the right to use headlights... We can only hope!

and again, CF is the reason KI is not the "Disney of the North" Like those in Florida wanted it to be. We are a bit of prime real estate believe it or not. And really? Do we really need 3 coasters with a NASCAR Theme? If they were to do that thats all we'd hear is the bs-ing about omg its themed like everything else. Pick your battles

Seriously, 7 pages of over-reaction?

Do I like the change? No

Will my 6 year old be upset as he loves the "Mini Cooper Coaster" (as be calls it)? We'll see

But CF is not tring to ruin the park, is not pulling another GL, etc...

Everyone is entitled to there opinion on what this looks like and how that might impact their enjoyment of the ride, but let's try and maintain some perspective. Spending is going to be minimized because CF is in financial trouble. And don't think that anyone who takes over CF won't be looking at further cost cuts also.

Agreed!!!!!!!!! My biggest thing is, change happens no matter what. Even if Paramount still had the park, something would have changed and a bunch of people wouldn't be happy.

A-FREAKING-MEN altho its 11 pages now UGH. Things change, rides get old, nothing in a park will be the same year after year after year. I'm sure you don't remember what it was like before x-base got put in. Ppl were complaining about that too. "*whine*whine* you took out The Racer hill and the tunnel!*whine*" Is anyone complaining about how The Racer is now? Well... they're not complaining about the layout they're complaining about it not going backwards... there will be some change every year. Theres no use crying on about for 11 freaking pages!

Have you seen the trains? Of course it's careless... Look at them! They're rather have repulsive looking trains than to have really cool looking ones. And it's not a matter of paying for the license. Just add on new headlights! And for Heaven's sake, does BMW own the ride to license plates being on cars? If they do, I certainly owe them a hefty sum of money. The fact that they removed the aspects that don't even allude to BMW (doors, headlights, license plates, windshield) certainly makes me feel like they're trying keep it from looking like a car at all.

The front of the Intimidator train now looks more like a car than our perfectly-crafted 3/4 scale MINI Coopers. That says something, doesn't it?

If the point is that they don't want to pay for the BMW license, alright - at least design a vaguely-car-looking train in-house. But if they can't afford it, then why do they still own these theme parks? If they honestly don't have enough money to pay for the license, it's time to let the parks go. What won't they be able to afford next? First some silly, unnecessary rights like this... Then air conditioning... Then employees to sweep the street... I don't know why folks are saying this money they're saving here is going to another roller coaster. Have you forgotten that Cedar Fair will either be sold, or go bankrupt? The chances of us getting a new roller coaster from Cedar Fair are slim to none to say the least. At least, that's how I feel about it.

OK I'm trying really hard not to pick apart your innane "logic" here... but jeezus its getting tough. again 1. I've seen the new trains first hand, They're actaully roomier, and don't look as horrible as you're making it out to be. Could they do with a little bit of detail yes, but the ones at KD had a speedometer in them which looked kinda cool, and i prefer them without the plexiglass in it. you can actually see through the "windshield"

2. You're assuming that things like that CAN be made in house... much like you're ASSUMING that all these changes are going to be made. they said A change would be made to the ride, could be just about anything...

3. Let's see... how long were the paramount parks up for sale before CF bought them? It wasn't an instantaneous thing... If they're aren't any buyers, how can they sell them?! They obviously bought them for a reason and we'll see why eventually. This is not an instant gratification industry so get used to it

I agree with much of what you said, but must fall back on a few things:

The idea of Kings Dominion working further on the trains as the summer progresses is nearly out of the question. The trains are on the track. Do you think they will carefully hop from one side of the station to the other applying decals? It would seem to me, admittedly as a layman in this department, that any cosmetic changes would occur off the track, in the maintenance shop. I could be dead wrong.

Another thing is, you are correct that the MINI is distinct - the circular mirrors, the circular headlights, and the characteristic "stripes" on the hood certainly had to be removed. But license plates? Keep in mind, these are licensed plates that were just recently updated to include the new Kings Island logo. I say again that, if MINI owns the rights to license plates, I have some serious fees to pay. I don't imagine any court would accept that Kings Island is, as BMW claimed with Freestyle, unfairly benefitting from a false endorsement, because a car-themed roller coaster has license plates.

I understand that the doors were likely a maintenance issue at least once, and when they train goes under for a change, you say "Well, let's just get rid of the doors while we're doing this." But license plates are certainly not the property of BMW, and headlights can easily be replaced with something shaped differently. They literally just painted over the entire carriage, and as was said, it looks like a $.05 toy from a drug store. Plus, making the trains all-red, all-white, and all-blue? Why?! At this point, the ride is so distanced from its Italian Job identity that it would take a lot of talk to convince a first time visitor that the ride ever had anything to do with the film. Thus, I fear this may be yet another example of Cedar Fair changing something just because they can.

If you ask me, we can make excuses til the cows come home, and say they were just being "overly cautious," but I've started to learn that the heads of Cedar Fair do not think in terms of "Well if we save money here, we can build better rides later." They think in terms of "Let's not spend any money, period. No water, no fire, no music, no effects, no fog, no BMWs. No one will notice."

Dear Mr. Kinzel,

We noticed.

*sigh* Were you at KD this weekend? To see the cars? oh NO? interesting... With that you'd know that they had ONE TRAIN and one train only on this ride. ONE. So who's to say that they aren't working on the blue and white one still? and they'll work on the red one later? Is it likely? not really, but probable. This park was so not ready to open this weekend and it showed, only running one train on almost every ride. The only ride i saw with multiple cars on other than 305 was Rebel Yell. They had 3 of the 4 trains on the track, one of them on the other side not running.

Why this thread is not in the Rumors section I'll never know, but the whining and complaining about something you have absolutely NO knowledge on needs to stop. I'm sure there are employees who have been at the park all week and see the ride running and not seeing a difference that would LOVE to post that on here, but won't b/c it's really not too much of a concern to you and I. Let's move on with our lives instead of worrying about nothing that we know about some rinky dink little ride...

When they say they're going to cut The Beast in half or something or take out one side of The Racer.. then you can have 12 pages of meaningless annoying speculations... ugh I'm done

[Beast1979]

The new KI website says that Backlot "Will not accomidate guests of exceptional size," and that the "Lapbar must be fastened at all times." Does this mean no new seatbelts?

[bkroz]

The new KI website says that Backlot "Will not accomidate guests of exceptional size," and that the "Lapbar must be fastened at all times." Does this mean no new seatbelts?

The 2010 Rider Safety Guide says "The lap bar and seatbelt must be tightly fastened at all times."

[muppetfan1999]

It seems to me that Cedar Fairs assumes that only kids want theming.

While Planet Snoopy rides end up having the most theming in all of Kings Island for the most part, thrill rides like The Crypt and BLSC are thrill rides and you saw what happened.

Also, if I understand if Cedar Fairs were told to remove Paramount references from the park, but did that really require taking the theming off of all the themed rides? Why do they need to remove headlights in order to not get sued, why do they need to remove the volcano from Tomb Raider in order to not have Paramount references in the park.

Why?

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

I worked in Rivertown on Saturday and thought the BLSC trains were not that bad looking

[chaddie]

I worked in Rivertown on Saturday and thought the BLSC trains were not that bad looking

The cars could use a little bit of theming. They were sort of blah. BLSC is one of my favorite rides either way.

[Guest Millennium]

And what it comes down to, in my situation - I live 2 hours from Cedar Point, 4 from Kings Island, 2 from Kennywood. The "charm" and "immersion" that rides like Tomb Raider and Italian Job had is what kept me coming back to Kings Island. It suddenly occurs to me (and this is all my opinion, so take it for what's its worth) that Backlot Stunt Coaster has lost its charm (no water, no splashdown, no fog, no music, no ties to one of my favorite films), The Crypt is nothing (no fog, no water, no music, no storyline, no pre-show, no Angelina Jolie), Son of Beast is closed, Nickelodeon is replaced with Snoopy...

So at some point I have to say to myself, "Why do I prefer Kings Island? Because I can ride the now crapped-up rides and enjoy myself because I recall what they used to be? Because I ride the God-awful Crypt, but I can still see the goddess on the wall and that thrills me? Because during Backlot I can say, 'This is where the water used to be! I loved that!'" With Backlot running terribly, The Crypt being pretty much unridable, no Son of Beast, no Nickelodeon, no Scooby Doo...

It's like, what's the point? All that's left are unthemed, poorly-named rides with no spirit and no sense of adventure and no sense of immersion... Hell, I'll just save on hotel money and gas money and just go to Cedar Point.

But then again, yay, it's cleaner and we have Diamondback, so woohoo Cedar Fair!

I'm just over it. Honestly, maybe I'm just saying this because I'm angry, but my upcoming birthday trip to Kings Island may be my last for a while. Really, it's been one little tiny change at a time and a few details lost here and there, but in the "big picture," Kings Island now has no theme, awful music, no Tomb Raider, no Son of Beast, Snoopy, overpriced food, trims on everything, no Scooby Doo, and now a broken-down, tired-looking Backlot Stunt Coaster. I'm not driving four hours for that.

Sweetie, if a new color on a car does this to you, then I'm very concerned.

[Jason B]

I like that the trains are now all one color. I do admit they could use a bit of theming.

[LongliveKingsCobra]

I kinda like the cars. They aren't as bad as they could have been. Jus' sayin.

[KIBOB]

This may be a bit far fetched, but since Toyota (? i'm pretty sure ?) is the official car dealer/manufacturer of Kings Island, would you think it could be possible for the park to get an excellent deal from Toyota on licensing for their car brands? It would be neat if the cars were turned into miniature Toyota Corollas!

KIBOB, just brainstorming......

[LongliveKingsCobra]

And what happens when that deal is up? Nothing is forever..

[Coney Islander]

^^

Or even better, a Prius theme.

[coaster_junky]

...or the yaris, i mean, it is the closest in resemblance to the mini cooper

[RingMaster]

Didn't Kings Island lose their licensing with Toyota when Cedar Fair took over? That would make a little bit of sense seeing how as the cars promoting Diamondback weren't Toyotas but, instead, Fords.

Also, wouldn't having Toyota-themed cars for the ride mean we wouldn't be able to stop once the ride is over?

[coaster_junky]

^that could be the theme of the ride.

a journey taking place after your accelerator sticks, causing you to go on a wild ride with near collisions, all while you try to place your very own "yaris" in neutral and apply the breaks.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

I dont know Toyota's have problems accelerating

[RingMaster]

I dont know Toyota's have problems accelerating

It's only on some of their newer models, but this has actually been going on for YEARS now with malfunctioning Toyotas; it's only resurfaced with the recent acceleration mishaps, be it from sticky pedals or whatnot. It's been a part of the news in a big way, but considering a combination of the economy, health care reform, and whatever's left of the Swine Flu, I would imagine something like this may have gone unnoticed by some folks.

[coastermike]

On my second ride of BLSC on opening day none of the FX worked during the mid-ride stop. We just sat there in silence for a few seconds until the cars took off to complete the run. I know it was just a glitch, but what started out as a great must-do ride a few years ago has turned into something I now ride if the line isn't too long.

Mike B.