Another trim on I305?

[gigacoaster2k]

I'm not sure if this should be in this section or the Rumors section.

I was told that CF is considering putting a trim brake on I305's first drop due to "everyone" "blacking out" on it. I BARELY grayed out on the first drop both times I rode it. I have grayed out FAR worse on Millennium Force's first drop than I did on I305's. So far I have heard of people only graying out and momentarily blacking out on I305's first drop, but after MF's first drop, I've gotten tunnel vision, extreme graying, seen gray/white sparkles, and a few people have even told me they have purpled out or even completely passed out. I have also lost my vision for far longer on MF than I did on I305.. I only saw gray spots for about 3 seconds on I305 while I have lost my vision for nearly 10 seconds on MF. With all due respect to CF, why do they feel that I305's drop is intense enough that it needs a trim brake, while the 100% trimless MF has been knocking people unconscious for a decade?

[CincyMan98]

I'm not sure if this should be in this section or the Rumors section.

I was told that CF is considering putting a trim brake on I305's first drop due to "everyone" "blacking out" on it. I BARELY grayed out on the first drop both times I rode it. I have grayed out FAR worse on Millennium Force's first drop than I did on I305's. So far I have heard of people only graying out and momentarily blacking out on I305's first drop, but after MF's first drop, I've gotten tunnel vision, extreme graying, seen gray/white sparkles, and a few people have even told me they have purpled out or even completely passed out. I have also lost my vision for far longer on MF than I did on I305.. I only saw gray spots for about 3 seconds on I305 while I have lost my vision for nearly 10 seconds on MF. With all due respect to CF, why do they feel that I305's drop is intense enough that it needs a trim brake, while the 100% trimless MF has been knocking people unconscious for a decade?

Blacking out doesn't kill anybody anyways.......so why would they care about it? That's the intensity and thrill of it! Now watch, I305 will end up being like The Beast. More and more trims added on, until the point the ride gets slower and less thrilling.

[gigacoaster2k]

On I305, I only saw gray spots from the turn at the bottom of the first drop to halfway up the first airtime hill. That's a span of about 3 seconds.

On MF, I have grayed out from the bottom of the first drop to the point where I couldn't see, and when my vision did clear, I was coming out of the first tunnel. Anyone who's been on MF knows that's quite a distance.

[frisbeefan]

I really hope they don't make that addition to the ride and would think that they would have to adjust every ride that has made people "grey" or "black" out.

I've had this sensation many times on Invertigo during the loop.

Edited April 8, 2010 by frisbeefan

[Tom76257]

Unfortunately, I think the folks at Cedar Fair take the intensity of the entire ride into consideration when deciding on this. Anyone who's ridden both coasters will tell you that I305 is DEFINITELY the more intense coaster. Millie has smooth transitions all throughout and seemingly glides effortlessly throughout its course. I305 has THE quickest transitions of any coaster I've ever ridden and has far more twists and turns than does Millennium Force.

On a side note, I can see Cedar Fair adding a trim on the first drop simply because it's been clocked at 1 mph faster than Millennium Force. Heaven forbid that the other Cedar Fair gigacoaster go faster than the #2 steel coaster in the world. Hate to say it, but the higher-ups might declare a trim to be added just for that reason.

[gigacoaster2k]

I've grayed out on Maverick's first drop. The helix on Goliath at SFOG also made me see a couple of gray spots.

These are all noteworthy rides.. why weaken their punch with excessive trim brakes?

[bkroz]

On a side note, I can see Cedar Fair adding a trim on the first drop simply because it's been clocked at 1 mph faster than Millennium Force. Heaven forbid that the other Cedar Fair gigacoaster go faster than the #2 steel coaster in the world. Hate to say it, but the higher-ups might declare a trim to be added just for that reason.

I have to disagree. Sure, I am completely and totally of the persuasion that Cedar Fair might've said to Intamin, "You know this doesn't have to be as good as Millennium, you know?" (a plan that, if true, seems to have backfired). But I don't think Cedar Fair spend money (perhaps more importantly, time) by adding a trim break to the first hill. If they would close the ride and bring in Intamin and have a new break installed there, I doubt "letting Millennium Force win" would even be in the top ten reasons why.

Graying out doesn't kill people, but folks have different thresholds. I mildly enjoy the sensation on Backlot, for example. But at 92 mph? I'm not sure. The comfort of the guest is far more important than keeping the ride "intense." I haven't been on Intimidator 305, but from what I hear, I hope they don't add a trim. My point was that, if they do, it's most certainly not just because of Millennium. Cedar Fair loves their records, yes, but not at the expense of time & money.

[flightoffear1996]

I say leave it. Whats the fun in the ride if its forceless. Might as well sit in my living room chair.

[shark6495]

I'm not sure if this should be in this section or the Rumors section.

I was told that CF is considering putting a trim brake on I305's first drop due to "everyone" "blacking out" on it. I BARELY grayed out on the first drop both times I rode it. I have grayed out FAR worse on Millennium Force's first drop than I did on I305's. So far I have heard of people only graying out and momentarily blacking out on I305's first drop, but after MF's first drop, I've gotten tunnel vision, extreme graying, seen gray/white sparkles, and a few people have even told me they have purpled out or even completely passed out. I have also lost my vision for far longer on MF than I did on I305.. I only saw gray spots for about 3 seconds on I305 while I have lost my vision for nearly 10 seconds on MF. With all due respect to CF, why do they feel that I305's drop is intense enough that it needs a trim brake, while the 100% trimless MF has been knocking people unconscious for a decade?

Blacking out doesn't kill anybody anyways.......so why would they care about it? That's the intensity and thrill of it! Now watch, I305 will end up being like The Beast. More and more trims added on, until the point the ride gets slower and less thrilling.

havnt we been through this before? the ride has not received more trims. unless you count from the day it was built till the day it was open....

[DaveStroem]

I predicted on opening day that they would neuter I305 with in a month. The fact that a majority of people experience some form of blackout/grayout on this ride coupled with the intense transitions is a sure recipe for injury. I read a report that someone blacked out to the point where they were still out when he passed by the on-ride photo location. He ended up with at the least a bloody nose.

[The Beast Rider]

Cedar Fair add a trim brake? They would never do such a thing! Who do you think you are talking about, Ceda....

Oh, wait.

It would not surprise me in the least for it to end up just like The Beast and Mean Streak, and so many other Cedar Fair coasters.

[bkroz]

I wonder what percentage of riders experience a form of blackout on Backlot Stunt Coaster's helices? I know I do, and my friends always rave about how that's the weirdest part of the ride... Shall we add trims? Backlot Trim Coaster?

[thunderbeast1968]

What is up with the greyout/blackout? Never experienced it before. Could it be from having a certain body type? I am a pretty stout person, 6'4" 235 lbs. Not that means anything but, could it be a factor, like having upperbody strength? Just a thought.

Several posts on here mentioned the grey/blackout happened on MF, I305, even Maverick, but no mention to Dragster or Kingda Ka. These coasters have high speeds plus a 400ft + drop. My comments were not meant to sound mean or anything referring to upper body strength, it was just a thought. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[bkroz]

A greyout is brought on by positive G-forces, and the brain rapidly losing oxygen. Sometimes people have it when they go from laying to standing up really quickly. It's just a moment where all you can see is gray, and you may feel dizzy. I, personally, feel a lot of pressure behind my eyes when it happens, almost like when a limb is asleep and it feels "tingly." Then your vision returns in a matter of seconds. Blackouts are when you actually "pass out," whereas greyouts are something that only happens to your vision. Other senses continue to operate normally.

They characteristically happen on roller coasters during loops (for me, every single double loop I've ever been on, I gray out on the second loop, every single time) and helices. That's why Intimidator is really getting to people - that first helix is tackled while traveling at 92 miles per hour (probably the fastest helix on any roller coaster). Even on the Italian Job, the constant helixing in the beginning gravitationally pulls blood towards the core and away from the head, producing the same sensation even at lower speeds.

Except for the fact that they are the "precursor" to blacking out, grayouts aren't dangerous.

I haven't heard of anyone experiencing a greyout on Top Thrill or Kingda Ka... As the Backlot Stunt Coaster shows, it's not about speed or drops, but about gravitational force. And more specifically, positive-G's (the kind that make you feel heavier, and press you into your seat). Negative-G's, which make you feel lighter, are very much present on Top Thrill Dragster, and actually force more blood into your head (though not enough to induce a "redout"... So many terms!)

Just gives you an idea of why the more forceful B&Ms are the ones developed before computer mapping was able to help determine what kinds of G's would specifically be felt and where - today, many rides are developed to be far 'tamer' than they would've been (and many times, were) before such specific technology existed.

[TH13TEEN]

I have never went on Backlot Stunt Coaster with out greying out in the helix. That little coaster can pack a puch.

[thunderbeast1968]

A greyout is brought on by positive G-forces, and the brain rapidly losing oxygen. Sometimes people have it when they go from laying to standing up really quickly. It's just a moment where all you can see is gray. I, personally, feel a lot of pressure behind my eyes when it happens, almost like when a limb is asleep and it feels "tingly." Then your vision returns in a matter of seconds. Blackouts are when you actually "pass out," whereas greyouts are something that only happens to your vision. Other senses continue to operate normally.

They characteristically happen on roller coasters during loops (for me, every single double loop I've ever been on, I gray out on the second loop, every single time) and helices. That's why Intimidator is really getting to people - that first helix is tackled while traveling at 92 miles per hour (probably the fastest helix on any roller coaster). Even on the Italian Job, the constant helixing in the beginning gravitationally pulls blood towards the core and away from the head, producing the same sensation even at lower speeds.

Except for the fact that they are the "precursor" to blacking out, grayouts aren't dangerous.

I know a greyout can be from a lack of oxygen (temporarily) like you said , like if you get up too quickly, and your blood pressure has to equal out in a few seconds, but I was saying I have never had this happen on a coaster.

[TH13TEEN]

^ Then what do you want us to say? Your build should have little to no effect. It uselly depends on if you have been drinking enough fluids, or stayed cool. It can also come down to if you have had enough sleep or ate before you came to the park.

[shark6495]

actually your build could have an effect. If you are more muscular you are more likely to be able to keep the blood from rushing into your core. Plus its all about "the body." Fighter pilots experience the same and more (much more) g-forces that riders experience. They do not (and cant, for safety) gray or black out. Its all about conditioning and getting yourself trained to keep your blood in the right places. If you tense the muscles (the right ones) you are more likely to keep the blood in the brain and to keep yourself from graying blacking out.

Personal story, I only ever grayed out on one ride and that was king Kobra with the last turn (helix?) on the ride. Back lot doesnt bother me but boy that little Kobra packed a punch....

And thirteen play nice

[thunderbeast1968]

I researched it. The greyout in a medical dictionary basically says a grey out says a "grey out is loss of perrifrial vision" due to high g-forces, like a jet pilot, or roller coaster rider may experience. It also mentioned low blood pressure and even a hangover.

My only point is, I have not greyed out or anything before on a coaster and have never experienced it before, thats all.

BTW- I hope they do not mess with the make-up of this coaster(Trims) before I get to take a spin for myself.

[TH13TEEN]

Shark, thats why I said quote "little to no effect."

[Tom76257]

I can definitely attest with not eating enough food and graying out because of it. I hadn't eaten anything for about 8-10 hours one day and rode Millennium Force. I will NEVER do that again. I grayed out for about 7 or 8 seconds and BARELY saw anything around the edges of the gray that I did see.

goodyellowkorn182 - After thinking about it, you're right. Cedar Fair isn't in the best financial situation and adding a trim brake JUST to make another coaster look better would most likely not be a good decision. The simple solution would be to advertise I305 like they already are on some shirts I've seen at "over 90 MPH."

[sheikra_rocks]

They should warn people, about it like they do with Dragster roll backs. If they don't want the rick of a black / gray out they shouldn't go.

Like they used to say at Busch Gardens Tampa "CRY BABIES DON'T RIDE"

I have lost vision on Kumba, Montu, Dueling Dragons Fire, and Hulk. But usually after i have ridden over and over again. From my experience, everything goes black. I know what is going on around me. I can even talk. I just can't see anything.

That said, I am ready for I305. Even if it means I black out. Your body would get used to it eventually. BRING IT ON!

[gigacoaster2k]

They should warn people, about it like they do with Dragster roll backs. If they don't want the rick of a black / gray out they shouldn't go.

Like they used to say at Busch Gardens Tampa "CRY BABIES DON'T RIDE"

I have lost vision on Kumba, Montu, Dueling Dragons Fire, and Hulk. But usually after i have ridden over and over again. From my experience, everything goes black. I know what is going on around me. I can even talk. I just can't see anything.

That said, I am ready for I305. Even if it means I black out. Your body would get used to it eventually. BRING IT ON!

I absolutely LOVE this post, and I totally agree with you.

I like steep drops, zero-g rolls, loops, cobra rolls, launches, airtime hills, curved drops, and vertical lift hills. See my top 5 wooden and steel coasters on my profile for a great example of what I love most. I have a thirst for extreme rides, and you will see me on the world's craziest rides with my hands up and a huge smile on my face. Trimming every ride to the point where it's leisurely is not fun for thrillseekers like me and many, many others.. we love rides that leave us out of breath, and who cares if we see a few gray spots, it's not like we're disobeying the signs that strictly prohibit people with certain medical conditions from riding. If we wanted to ride kiddie coasters, we would.

Leave our THRILL rides alone.

[shark6495]

They should warn people, about it like they do with Dragster roll backs. If they don't want the rick of a black / gray out they shouldn't go.

Like they used to say at Busch Gardens Tampa "CRY BABIES DON'T RIDE"

I have lost vision on Kumba, Montu, Dueling Dragons Fire, and Hulk. But usually after i have ridden over and over again. From my experience, everything goes black. I know what is going on around me. I can even talk. I just can't see anything.

That said, I am ready for I305. Even if it means I black out. Your body would get used to it eventually. BRING IT ON!

I absolutely LOVE this post, and I totally agree with you.

I like steep drops, zero-g rolls, loops, cobra rolls, launches, airtime hills, curved drops, and vertical lift hills. See my top 5 wooden and steel coasters on my profile for a great example of what I love most. I have a thirst for extreme rides, and you will see me on the world's craziest rides with my hands up and a huge smile on my face. Trimming every ride to the point where it's leisurely is not fun for thrillseekers like me and many, many others.. we love rides that leave us out of breath, and who cares if we see a few gray spots, it's not like we're disobeying the signs that strictly prohibit people with certain medical conditions from riding. If we wanted to ride kiddie coasters, we would.

Leave our THRILL rides alone.

but you must remember that the people in charge do not just trim the coasters for the fun of it or to destroy the ride. With a ride like I305, with it being new, they have to make it so that the most amount of people will want to ride it. By trimming it just slightly (to say lower the amount of gray outs) they may lose only 100 riders a day (say the thrill seekers) but they may get an additional 300 people who want to re-ride the ride, where those 300 people wouldnt want to re-ride it again, so its a pluss 200 people (or plus 100 if the thrill seekers would re ride it). Now should a ride be tamed down to nothing, no. But should a ride be made to incorporate the most amount of people? Yes.

[diamondback_king]

What is up with the greyout/blackout? Never experienced it before. Could it be from having a certain body type? I am a pretty stout person, 6'4" 235 lbs. Not that means anything but, could it be a factor, like having upperbody strength? Just a thought.

Several posts on here mentioned the grey/blackout happened on MF, I305, even Maverick, but no mention to Dragster or Kingda Ka. These coasters have high speeds plus a 400ft + drop. My comments were not meant to sound mean or anything referring to upper body strength, it was just a thought. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[/quote

I am 6'4" / 240lbs / strong, athletic build. I greyout on BLSC, every time.

[Dvo]

I agree. While pulling high g's can seem pretty cool, doing it repeatedly is certainly not healthy. I'm interested to see if they actually do add a trim.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

I've ridden I305 three times so far & havn't had any problems greying/blacking out during the turn following the drop so I doubt that they're gonna add any trims to it.

If someone did pass out on the ride & returned to the station unconscious then we would've heard about it in the media by now & the ride would've been shut down immediately & indefinitely while an investigation was being carried out by the state & so far this hasn't happened so it's a safe bet that the ride is fine but is on the intense to extreme side for sure.

[shark6495]

remember though not all accidents make it to the news.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

remember though not all accidents make it to the news.

True but people have been going to the park all week so far & the ride has been open every day.

[bkroz]

True, but who knows what events have happened on the ride?