Another trim on I305?

[gigacoaster2k]

What I'm saying is that if every part of every coaster that makes any person gray out is trimmed, that would certainly dull the thrill for more people than I can account for. Some trims and MCBRs grab so ferociously that it causes the riders to jerk forward.. there is positively NO reason to have a brake on THAT hard.

To be honest, and I know this sounds odd (some of you may or may not agree), but I kind of like the feeling I get when I gray out. Knowing a ride can do that kind of adds to the thrill for me.

[Ki Man]

Don't know if anyone has said it yet, but I doubt they would put a trim on...they would probably just slow down the rediculously fast lift. A new trim requires a daily attention, so there's more work being put into it.

[Browntggrr]

On a side note, I can see Cedar Fair adding a trim on the first drop simply because it's been clocked at 1 mph faster than Millennium Force. Heaven forbid that the other Cedar Fair gigacoaster go faster than the #2 steel coaster in the world. Hate to say it, but the higher-ups might declare a trim to be added just for that reason.

I have to disagree. Sure, I am completely and totally of the persuasion that Cedar Fair might've said to Intamin, "You know this doesn't have to be as good as Millennium, you know?" (a plan that, if true, seems to have backfired). But I don't think Cedar Fair spend money (perhaps more importantly, time) by adding a trim break to the first hill. If they would close the ride and bring in Intamin and have a new break installed there, I doubt "letting Millennium Force win" would even be in the top ten reasons why.

CF is not going to pull a Paramount (i.e. SoB shorter than Beast) and add a trim break because it is faster than MF. Where do people come up with this conspiracy theory stuff?

The powers that be at CF can do the math and realize that MF is going into it's 11th season, it can't be a record breaker or be the fastest forever, even in their own park family.

Not to mention, CF built a certain 420' coaster shortly after the debut of MF that goes considerably faster. What motivation would they have to slow down I305 vs. MF? It makes no sense.

Now they will add a trim if the "greying out" becomes an issue with park guests.

Check out this video, courtesy of Rob at TPR:

If Rob, who has probably been on more coasters then the average bear, is "greying out", than I would have to assume that it will be a more intense effect on the average park guest.

Enthusiasts love it. The others? Well I can see it scaring the he!! out of them. Coasters are built for the majority, not the minority. And face it, enthusiasts are the minority.

I also do not believe that CF would incur any cost to add the trim.

CF has a contract with Intamin for certain specs. If the "greying out" threshold is too intense, it would be up to Intamin to foot the bill, much like Intamin had to foot the bill for the design & track change to Maverick.

Blacking out doesn't kill anybody anyways.......so why would they care about it? That's the intensity and thrill of it! Now watch, I305 will end up being like The Beast. More and more trims added on, until the point the ride gets slower and less thrilling.

havnt we been through this before? the ride has not received more trims. unless you count from the day it was built till the day it was open....

*You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.*

It was explained with: words, video, pop-up pictures, and crayon that Beast has not had trims added.

http://www.KICentral...pic=20970&st=45

[shark6495]

What I'm saying is that if every part of every coaster that makes any person gray out is trimmed, that would certainly dull the thrill for more people than I can account for. Some trims and MCBRs grab so ferociously that it causes the riders to jerk forward.. there is positively NO reason to have a brake on THAT hard.

To be honest, and I know this sounds odd (some of you may or may not agree), but I kind of like the feeling I get when I gray out. Knowing a ride can do that kind of adds to the thrill for me.

gigs I understand what you are saying. But (there is always a but, aint there?) a ride is for the general public not the thrill seekers. Echoing what Browntggr just said, if the ride has an issue with graying (greying?) out for most people then we will see a trim added somewhere on the hill to slow the ride down. Yes some trims and some MCBRs are very strong. But the reason they brake that hard may have to do with how fast the train is going, how heavy the train is, etc. For every force there is an opposite and equal opposite force. If the train is going 60 but the designers/owners believe that the train should be going 40 well it will brake harder than if the train was going from 45 to 40

[sheikra_rocks]

Don't know if anyone has said it yet, but I doubt they would put a trim on...they would probably just slow down the rediculously fast lift. A new trim requires a daily attention, so there's more work being put into it.

That is what I was going to suggest. It is already going up the lift hill fast. Thus it has less speed to make up for, thus it will go faster. If the lift is slowed down, it will take longer for it to make up the speed.

[Guest rcfreak339]

Blacking and "Greying" out on ANY rides is unhealthy to everybody. True, You also can black out on almost any other ride but the matter of I305's situation is different. People are blacking out almost every time they ride, which is not good. Adding a trim and slowing down the lift would almost stop blacking out and for anyone that has rode I305 will tell you that it was not just clocking 94mph like it's supposed to. It clocked nearly 100mph. I say add the trim, it's almost inevitable in my opinion.

[Tom76257]

Personally, I'd like to see the ride operate just as it is now. I don't even see the need for the trim up one of the airtime hills honestly. I have to agree with Ki Man that if the ride is slowed down then it would be via the insanely fast lift hill instead of adding a trim to the first drop.

[sheikra_rocks]

giga, this might be a stupid question....LOL

Will you be at KI opening day? My friend Jan and I are going. We hope to see you there.

[Dvo]

^Wouldn't that be a better fit for this thread? http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20482&st=160

And Tom, I could also see that happening before they add a trim. Trims on first drops are really tacky, and to me, it just screams "we didn't design this right..." I finally got around to watching a POV of I305 and WOW that lift is incredibly fast. That drop has to be insane. I'm guessing Cedar Fair is playing it by ear... if they get enough actual complaints about blacking out, I would expect them to do something. Otherwise I say if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[TopThrill]

Funny hearing people are blacking out on I305, while I've only blacked out on Mantis. Never had a problem with MF.

[Ki Man]

Didn't they slow the lift on El Toro down? I KNOW I heard about that before...

[The Interpreter]

Yes. They did....

[shark6495]

that lift hill is wicked quick...... maybe if they didnt Sling Shot up and over... but then again who knows (I know the engineers know).... now DVo many rides have some sort of a trim on the drop. Its not a design flaw it just happens. Ask any engineer and they will tell you that the contractors didnt build it right or the designers didnt have enough real physics. The designers will say the engineers didnt play it right and the contractors didnt build it right. And the contractors will tell you the engineers didnt make the plans right......

[KIfan1980]

In today's high tech world, I'd be surprised if the engineers/designers/contractors debate you reference is occurring. I'd guess that the ride manufacturer has a pretty good idea of the speed and forces that riders are experiencing every foot along the track - what is much harder to model is the impact of these forces on the biggest unknown in coaster design - humans of many different shapes and sizes who react very differently to said speed and forces.

[The Interpreter]

See also Maverick...

[shark6495]

well its slight attempt at humor.... fail... and secondly just because its a high tech world doesnt mean much. In discussing a building design at a job site (i was doing interviews for a tv show) and the contractor showed me plans that someone drew up that didnt include a load bearing wall or any feasible way to hold certain aspects of the design. The contractors had to tweak the design in the field to make it work.

[The Interpreter]

Again, see also Maverick...whose opening was delayed by the removal of an element INTAMIN had designed in, but which was taken out before anyone in the public or media had ridden it...

[DaveStroem]

I just read another report about a girl that completely blacked out and slumped over on the first turn. Her dad was riding with her and had to shake her awake after the air hill. I love intense rides as much as the next coaster nut, but I don't think this ride is safe.

[gigacoaster2k]

I just read another report about a girl that completely blacked out and slumped over on the first turn. Her dad was riding with her and had to shake her awake after the air hill. I love intense rides as much as the next coaster nut, but I don't think this ride is safe.

Link, please?

I find it funny how everyone talked about graying out hardcore on MF, but now that Robb Alvey grayed out on I305, suddenly the stories about MF never happened. I am having a hard time believing a lot of this.. the media will sensationalize anything, any way they can.

[DaveStroem]

My daughter and I took the second seat less than 10 minutes after we got into line. As mentioned in other posts, it's one of the most intense rides on the planet.We went up the 305 foot lift hill at a crazy 18 miles per hour. My daughter and I both put our hands up and screamed at the insane 300 foot drop. As we went into the first high G turn my daughter's arms fell. I looked over and saw her head slumped over. She had passed out. I shook her awake and she she seemed to come out of it after the second hill. She resumed her happy screams.

http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/57204.aspx

Angie, I totally believe you that you grayed out on MF, I have too. While I feel that graying out is not a good thing on any ride on I305 is seems to be happening to more people then on MF. On KDFansite they ran a poll where 65% of respondents say the grayed out and 13% say they blacked out. That is 78% that had a G-force effected lose of function.

My real concern is not the gray out but the blackouts combined with the aggressive transitions. Many have said to just ride them defensively to avoid head banging, that is impossible to do if your unconscious.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

My daughter and I took the second seat less than 10 minutes after we got into line. As mentioned in other posts, it's one of the most intense rides on the planet.We went up the 305 foot lift hill at a crazy 18 miles per hour. My daughter and I both put our hands up and screamed at the insane 300 foot drop. As we went into the first high G turn my daughter's arms fell. I looked over and saw her head slumped over. She had passed out. I shook her awake and she she seemed to come out of it after the second hill. She resumed her happy screams.

http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/57204.aspx

Angie, I totally believe you that you grayed out on MF, I have too. While I feel that graying out is not a good thing on any ride on I305 is seems to be happening to more people then on MF. On KDFansite they ran a poll where 65% of respondents say the grayed out and 13% say they blacked out. That is 78% that had a G-force effected lose of function.

My real concern is not the gray out but the blackouts combined with the aggressive transitions. Many have said to just ride them defensively to avoid head banging, that is impossible to do if your unconscious.

Funny how CP hasn't trimmed MF yet as a result of anyone greying/blacking out & yet all of a sudden everyone is speculating that they will do so on I305.

[Browntggrr]

Funny how CP hasn't trimmed MF yet as a result of anyone greying/blacking out & yet all of a sudden everyone is speculating that they will do so on I305.

There are different degrees of greying out. I305 sounds like it has it's own catagory.

I have, on a few of numerous occaisions, slightly greyed out on MF.

My wife has come to the conclusion that if I talk less in line, there will be more o2 in my blood, and I have a less chance of greying out.

I am anxious to try I305 this summer to see how it effects me.

[frisbeefan]

I am anxious to try I305 this summer to see how it effects me.

I am too, I just hope that, if Cedar Fair does alter the ride, they don't by the middle of summer.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

http://screamscape.com/html/kings_dominion.htm

Watch the video they posted, Also is that Darlene at the 7:10 mark

[Ki Man]

I only greyed out on MF the first time, and Maverick the first time.

I usually grey out on Invertigo.

I ALWAYS grey out on Titan at SFOT.

Everyone's different. Not everyone rides under the right circumstances (drink water)!

[Beast1979]

The only time I've ever greyed out is on Magnum XL-200 at Cedar Point, when they turned the trims off for us for Coastermania!. It was intense going through the pretzel turn, and I guess that's why the trim's there, because if I gray out on it then that must say something.

Having not ridden Intimidator 305 yet, I can't judge how it compares intensity wise, but if it's what I've heard adding a trim might be a good idea, because it's just asking for a lawsuit in the case of someone getting hurt on the ride. If I'm Cedar Fair, I wait for Daily Operation to start, to see how everyone reacts, and if the majority is having gray outs on it then I say trim it. It's not worth the risk, in this industry it's better to be safe then sorry.

* Shields himself from the impending attacks*

[CincyMan98]

I never gray out on anything. Invertigo wasn't bad for me. Hopefully MF or I305 will be okay for me.

[Diamondback96]

Why would they add a trim when they could slow down the lift?

[DaveStroem]

My daughter and I took the second seat less than 10 minutes after we got into line. As mentioned in other posts, it's one of the most intense rides on the planet.We went up the 305 foot lift hill at a crazy 18 miles per hour. My daughter and I both put our hands up and screamed at the insane 300 foot drop. As we went into the first high G turn my daughter's arms fell. I looked over and saw her head slumped over. She had passed out. I shook her awake and she she seemed to come out of it after the second hill. She resumed her happy screams.

http://coasterbuzz.c...read/57204.aspx

Angie, I totally believe you that you grayed out on MF, I have too. While I feel that graying out is not a good thing on any ride on I305 is seems to be happening to more people then on MF. On KDFansite they ran a poll where 65% of respondents say the grayed out and 13% say they blacked out. That is 78% that had a G-force effected lose of function.

My real concern is not the gray out but the blackouts combined with the aggressive transitions. Many have said to just ride them defensively to avoid head banging, that is impossible to do if your unconscious.

Funny how CP hasn't trimmed MF yet as a result of anyone greying/blacking out & yet all of a sudden everyone is speculating that they will do so on I305.

If you read my post, you would understand. MF does not have the transitions that I305 has. You do not have to ride MF defensively at all. That is why I feel they need to do something to lessen the effect on the first turn. If slowing the lift or the last 1/4 of the lift would do it then that would be great if not I can almost guarantee that it will be trimmed.

[Dvo]

that lift hill is wicked quick...... maybe if they didnt Sling Shot up and over... but then again who knows (I know the engineers know).... now DVo many rides have some sort of a trim on the drop. Its not a design flaw it just happens. Ask any engineer and they will tell you that the contractors didnt build it right or the designers didnt have enough real physics. The designers will say the engineers didnt play it right and the contractors didnt build it right. And the contractors will tell you the engineers didnt make the plans right......

I can definitely see where you're coming from.. I'm actually a design engineer (mechanical), and our production line is on site. So we get the "fun" opportunity of talking to the assembly workers and hearing all the complaints about how bad our designs are haha. That debate will never end, no matter how precise design software becomes.

That being said, the best judge of a functional design is historical data. And given that larger coaster manufacturers have plenty of that... it seems like they should have a pretty good idea what the ride is going to do.