CoastersRZ Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Those projections of growing revenue and EBITDA of 10% in the next four years (by 2015) seems like a very hopeful projection. I still maintain that they will need to re-evaluate the in park food pricing (not to mention quality) if they hope to attract increased spending from the larger season pass and group sales contigent. (Reasonable discounts for pass holders would be nice to, like a straight 10% discount that Coney gives its pass holders). How many people either leave the park to eat, or simply wait until after their stay at the park to eat? How much missed revenue is that? All because they are hoping to achieve a higher margin on a unit basis? And the other thing is that pricing is NOT consistent across parks. Granted CP and KI both serve different soft drink brands, one park was charging $3 for a 20 oz soft drink, while the other was charging $3.75 this year. That is a pretty big price deviation. How many more soft drinks would be sold at KI if the price was $3 compared to the current $3.75? Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens in the coming years, thats for certain. It will also be interesting to see if they do build hotels at any of the former Paramount Parks. I would think that this would be a way for them to gain more revenue, and if they incorporate indoor water parks into the new facilities, attract more revenue in the typically cash flow negative winter months. Obviously the Cincinnati market would not be ideal for such an indoor water park resort with the neighboring GWL so close to the park. But a hotel could help out the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RingMaster Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 WindSeeker is going to be a "real sleeper" with tremendous marketing impact. "A real great attraction at a reasonable price that is going to generate a lot of attendance for us." Yes, a 300-foot-tall Zephyr that costs $5 million is a real great, reasonably-priced attraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 Compare and contrast: Shoot the Rapids Mean Streak Son of Beast Maverick Millennium Force Magnum Silver Bullet Renegade Everything is relative... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 Those projections of growing revenue and EBITDA of 10% in the next four years (by 2015) seems like a very hopeful projection. ... But, it is quite simple, you see. Mr. Kinzel has a plan: ...The company will grow attendance and revenue by investing in new rides and attractions and through marketing. It will also keep an eye on costs, reducing debt and watching its use of cash....*It's that simple. Makes you wonder what they've been doing up until now, now doesn't it? * http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9ILJ90G1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomTheater Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Hasn't that been the plan since George Roose decided against the housing development idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat22 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I still maintain that they will need to re-evaluate the in park food pricing (not to mention quality) if they hope to attract increased spending from the larger season pass and group sales contigent. I completely agree. If they would offer even one reasonably priced option they could sell a lot more food. Maybe a five dollar combo with a hot dog, small bag of chips and a small drink. They could market it heavily with the "magic" five dollar price, which seems to have worked nicely for Subway. They would have much less than two dollars in every meal including labor, probably closer to a dollar, and could make up for a smaller margin with a high quantity and increase per caps at the same time. I don't even like hot dogs, but a lot of people just want something they feel like they can afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hausty1983 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Wildcat22, I agree with you! I couldn't believe paying $8 for cheese coneys at Coney Mall at Skyline that is not affordable! I think I will be eating outside of the park and not paying more horrible cheese coneys that have hardly any chili on them too. I don't think they get it at all you can't have prices so high for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrick Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Thanks Terpy for "dumbing" it down so it's easy to read. Very interesting stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I still maintain that they will need to re-evaluate the in park food pricing (not to mention quality) if they hope to attract increased spending from the larger season pass and group sales contigent. I completely agree. If they would offer even one reasonably priced option they could sell a lot more food. Maybe a five dollar combo with a hot dog, small bag of chips and a small drink. They could market it heavily with the "magic" five dollar price, which seems to have worked nicely for Subway. They would have much less than two dollars in every meal including labor, probably closer to a dollar, and could make up for a smaller margin with a high quantity and increase per caps at the same time. I don't even like hot dogs, but a lot of people just want something they feel like they can afford. They've been selling $2 hot dogs at the Half Pint Brawlers shows. That's a step in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 Are they anything more than a warm wiener on a cold bun? Terpy, who figures that's about what they'd serve for two bucks at Cedar Fair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Are they anything more than a warm wiener on a cold bun? Terpy, who figures that's about what they'd serve for two bucks at Cedar Fair... Baby steps, Terpy... baby steps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 I know my Cedar Fair strategy, sad to say... Perhaps....it's a step... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 The Plain Dealer: http://www.cleveland...s_dividend.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterKrazy Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 The Company plans to achieve these goals by steadily growing its attendance and revenues through continued investment in trend-setting new rides and attractions along with new targeted marketing programs. The Company will also continue to maintain strict controls over operating costs while maintaining its "best-in-class" visitor experience. Finally, further opportunistic reduction of debt through the prudent use of free cash flows will position Cedar Fair with the balance sheet flexibility it needs to take advantage of future growth opportunities. This sounds oddly familiar... stating you intend to reach your goals by having those goals. Sounds like a plan to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 Although, to be fair, the law requires they already have their excuses pre-made in case they don't get there, here they are in that same press release: ... Important factors could adversely affect the Company's future financial performance and cause actual results to differ materially from the Company's expectations, including general economic conditions, competition for consumer leisure time and spending, adverse weather conditions, unanticipated construction delays and the risk factors discussed from time to time by the Company in reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the "SEC").... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat22 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I agree that $2 hot dogs is a step in the right direction. I haven't been to Haunt this year so that is good to hear. Hopefully it will be a success and something they can expand on for next year's food pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Those projections of growing revenue and EBITDA of 10% in the next four years (by 2015) seems like a very hopeful projection. ... But, it is quite simple, you see. Mr. Kinzel has a plan: ...The company will grow attendance and revenue by investing in new rides and attractions and through marketing. It will also keep an eye on costs, reducing debt and watching its use of cash....*It's that simple. Makes you wonder what they've been doing up until now, now doesn't it? * http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9ILJ90G1.htm Maybe I'm not sufficiently understanding, but growing revenue by 10% over 5 years and EBIDTA by the same amount does not seem the kind of unit price increasing growth I'd have thought the major/institutional investors in this company would want. 2.3% a year growth with major risk plus a small distribution - I'm not seeing the value equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 And thus the question about the succession plan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 It's just a quarter, but for some who own a piece of Cedar Fair LP, the 25-cent dividend announced Tuesday is more than a few dollars short of renewing their confidence in the amusement park company.... http://toledoblade.com/article/20101006/BUSINESS03/10050338/-1/BUSINESS04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I don't think it was time for distribution again. The .25 doesn't do much for the average holder but if you have 1.3 million shares it makes a nice bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Gibson Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I don't think it was time for distribution again. The .25 doesn't do much for the average holder but if you have 1.3 million shares it makes a nice bonus. That's what I was thinking. Is this the backup on someone's failed golden parachute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I`m not certain of all the legal implications, but I know that because Cedar Fair is a limited partnership, there are some tax implications of owning units. As a result, it is my understanding that this distribution, for now, is intended to help offset the tax burden on unit holders. If you read the Toledo Blade article, there are comments that inidicate unit holders are upset about current management, and feel that they are out of touch with the unit holders best interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acbjones1983 Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 CoasterRZ you are correct about the tax implications being the driving factor. Since each unit holder's tax liability is going to be different, there is a range of what each unit holder will be responsible for his or her shares. I recall hearing (during the conference call) that they came up with the 25 cent dividend because it was on the high end of the range of what unit holders would expect to owe in taxes per share. So, in theory, some of those unit holders are probably making a few cents per share, depending on their tax liability, since distributions to unit holders must be equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster_junky Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 no announcement for Son of Beast? i'm having difficulty setting still waiting for something on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share Posted October 7, 2010 The only mention of rides was that WindSeeker was going to be a sleeper attraction that would in fact drive attendance at the parks where it is installed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 The only mention of rides was that WindSeeker was going to be a sleeper attraction that would in fact drive attendance at the parks where it is installed... And please, God, let that be the case... This is their chance! This might be the "medium sized attraction" that finally proves to Cedar Fair that medium sized attractions can be big draws! If this is marketed correctly, not overhyped, presents an enjoyable, family ride experience, and boosts attendance, we may see more Skyhawks, more Intamin Twisted Impulse coasters, more flying carpets, more family flats... But if the new WindSeekers aren't marketed correctly, they won't create a draw, and I fear we may be limited to exclusively huge roller coasters & kiddie rides for quite a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share Posted October 7, 2010 I just hope it is more fun than a Chance Aviator. If it rides like those do (see Flying Ace in Planet Snoopy at Kings Dominion), this is going to be a huge disappointment... I really think it will be fun and superb, but if it's as big a bore as Chance Aviators are, this is could end up being a colossal flop. Or worse, if there is tremendous downtime...four of them they bought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomTheater Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Dollywood has one of those, and it is quite boring. They are nothing like a flying Scooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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