Fast Pass System at KI?

[RD Reynolds]

Has there ever been thought to a fast pass system at KI? We use it constantly at WDW, just curious as to if it would ever be implemented at KI...

RD

[KIMonster14]

There was a fast pass speed lane for BLST, but that was removed in '08.

[muppetfan1999]

That seem's like a good idea. It'd help cut down on the line jumping.

[RD Reynolds]

Would be really bad if they just installed one, then thought, "Well, this isn't working." The whole point is that there are several, and thus, you have people fast passing different rides and spreading people throughout the park to different rides. If there were FP's for BLSC, Vortex, Beast, DB, FoF, and FH, then you'd have something.

RD

[CedarPointer]

I don't really think the lines are long enough to need something like that.

[jdawg1998]

^Exactly. Disney has crazy crowds, and it's shoulder to shoulder in lines. The longest a line would be on a normal day at KI is an hour and a half. Disney can get up to three hours.

[muppetfan1999]

^^ Well maybe they could use them only during extremely busy days, i.e. 4th of july.

[RD Reynolds]

^Exactly. Disney has crazy crowds, and it's shoulder to shoulder in lines. The longest a line would be on a normal day at KI is an hour and a half. Disney can get up to three hours.

Waiting an hour and a half is not acceptable to me. Isn't the goal of a park to make it enjoyable for guests? Is there a negative to doing this?

RD

[Guest TombraiderTy]

Kings Island formerly utilized Gold Pass Speed Lanes, and they had them for Drop Tower, Backlot Stunt Coaster, Beast, Scooby-Doo and the Haunted Castle, Wild Thornberry's River Adventure, Delirium, and maybe a couple others. You could pick up tickets earlier in the day and visit the listed attraction at the listed time to quickly get on.

[Kirk Sheppard]

^Exactly. Disney has crazy crowds, and it's shoulder to shoulder in lines. The longest a line would be on a normal day at KI is an hour and a half. Disney can get up to three hours.

Waiting an hour and a half is not acceptable to me. Isn't the goal of a park to make it enjoyable for guests? Is there a negative to doing this?

RD

In theory, FastPass is brilliant. Unfortunately at Disney the ride operators and/or management do not understand that for it to work properly, it must be used properly. Let me explain.

They have calculated the number of FastPasses that can be distributed at what time frame as to disrupt the standby line flow of traffic as little as possible. This works great if the deadline to use the FastPass is enforced. It never is. So what happens is that people get a FP, don't use it during the hour long window they are supposed to, and then return whenever they want. This nullifies the formula that FP uses and then creates terribly long waits for the standby line.

My fear is that Kings Island has not quite got the handle on using the Single Rider line yet, which is a far more simple concept. FastPass could become a huge disaster.

[LongliveKingsCobra]

Well CP's fast pass lane thingy ma bob is nice. We used it for TTD a few years back. I think KI schould use that on some days.

[RD Reynolds]

^Exactly. Disney has crazy crowds, and it's shoulder to shoulder in lines. The longest a line would be on a normal day at KI is an hour and a half. Disney can get up to three hours.

Waiting an hour and a half is not acceptable to me. Isn't the goal of a park to make it enjoyable for guests? Is there a negative to doing this?

RD

In theory, FastPass is brilliant. Unfortunately at Disney the ride operators and/or management do not understand that for it to work properly, it must be used properly. Let me explain.

They have calculated the number of FastPasses that can be distributed at what time frame as to disrupt the standby line flow of traffic as little as possible. This works great if the deadline to use the FastPass is enforced. It never is. So what happens is that people get a FP, don't use it during the hour long window they are supposed to, and then return whenever they want. This nullifies the formula that FP uses and then creates terribly long waits for the standby line.

My fear is that Kings Island has not quite got the handle on using the Single Rider line yet, which is a far more simple concept. FastPass could become a huge disaster.

Interesting. I've been to Disney 2x a year for the past three years, and have never seen the issues you are describing. That could be due to the fact that I always use FP for the big attractions, and never go stand by on them.

As for not enforcing the time frames, I am VERY glad they don't. Gives you much more flexibility as a guest.

RD

[CedarPointer]

Waiting an hour and a half is not acceptable to me. Isn't the goal of a park to make it enjoyable for guests? Is there a negative to doing this?

RD

Negatives:

-Extra staff needed.

-Cost of installing the machines and new ticket media that would be accepted by the machines

-Would make normal lines longer

-Complaints about "unfairness"

-Fake fastpasses, etc...

Negatives of not having a fastpass system:

-Long lines on busy days (which can be avoided by not coming on busy days)

Uhhh... sorry. Can't think of any more.

[RD Reynolds]

Waiting an hour and a half is not acceptable to me. Isn't the goal of a park to make it enjoyable for guests? Is there a negative to doing this?

RD

Negatives:

-Extra staff needed.

-Cost of installing the machines and new ticket media that would be accepted by the machines

-Would make normal lines longer

-Complaints about "unfairness"

-Fake fastpasses, etc...

Negatives of not having a fastpass system:

-Long lines on busy days (which can be avoided by not coming on busy days)

Uhhh... sorry. Can't think of any more.

Hmmmm...since we've established that KI already has these machines, that would be one 'negative' off the list for the park.

I have never heard of complaints of "unfairness" in all my trips to WDW, and in fact, only hear praises.

In all my dealings at WDW (and believe me, me and my wife know way too much about those parks), I've never even heard of fake fast passes.

It would require a few more staffers, and would possibly make the stand by lines longer.

As for the pro's to the system, I'd add that making guests happy by not having them stand in line would be a pretty big one. More time for them to go buy merchandise and food. Believe me, Disney doesn't have it just out of the goodness of their hearts.

RD

[The Interpreter]

Well CP's fast pass lane thingy ma bob is nice. We used it for TTD a few years back. I think KI schould use that on some days.

Cedar Point hasn't had Freelane for several years now...

And I'd daresay if there is ever a line skipping system at Cedar Fair, they will, like Six Flags, charge a pretty nickel for it. Lots and lots of nickels, actually.

[RD Reynolds]

Well CP's fast pass lane thingy ma bob is nice. We used it for TTD a few years back. I think KI schould use that on some days.

You know one thing that I was thinking about (and Dis has experimented with)...why not have one FP distribution system near the center of the park that allows you to choose which ride you want an FP for. If you did this, you'd greatly eliminate the number of extra staff - and machines - you need to have at the ready.

RD

[The Interpreter]

Kings Island did not use machines to distribute fast access tickets. They used people, and very crude tickets. It didn't last long...

Paramount's Kings Dominion did more extensive testing of such a system....and abandoned it.

Cedar Point did, too...but they had used florescent ink and rubber stamps!

[RD Reynolds]

Well CP's fast pass lane thingy ma bob is nice. We used it for TTD a few years back. I think KI schould use that on some days.

Cedar Point hasn't had Freelane for several years now...

And I'd daresay if there is ever a line skipping system at Cedar Fair, they will, like Six Flags, charge a pretty nickel for it. Lots and lots of nickels, actually.

I believe that Universal does that as well, or at least a variant of it. They allow you singular fast passes, but you can also buy a pass wherein you can fast pass all day. I THINK that's what they do. Will find out here in a few weeks when I head down there...

RD

[RD Reynolds]

Kings Island did not use machines to distribute fast access tickets. They used people, and very crude tickets. It didn't last long...

Paramount's Kings Dominion did more extensive testing of such a system....and abandoned it.

Cedar Point did, too...but they had used florescent ink and rubber stamps!

Terpy, do you know the reason why the park doesn't want to use it? Just cost (staff + machines)? Wasn't sure if there was something more to it that I was missing...

RD

[The Interpreter]

You get that free at Universal if you stay on property. Otherwise, yes, it is a pretty penny. And I do believe you get premium access by staying on property, a bit faster than those who have otherwise paid for the privilege...

As for Paramount Parks, Jane Cooper was adamantly opposed to line skipping systems and did not think them fair or equitable (but note that her current employer, Dollywood, does use them, but prices them VERY economically).

At Cedar Point, I believe the company quit doing that when Six Flags Worlds of Adventure was no longer substantial competition....

[Kirk Sheppard]

Hmmmm...since we've established that KI already has these machines, that would be one 'negative' off the list for the park.

I doubt these machines - if they're still on site - are configured to just be plopped down and ready to go.

I have never heard of complaints of "unfairness" in all my trips to WDW, and in fact, only hear praises.

In all my dealings at WDW (and believe me, me and my wife know way too much about those parks), I've never even heard of fake fast passes.

I've been to Disney over 25 times since 2004. I frequent Disney message boards daily. There is MUCH talk of unfairness and negativity towards Fast Pass... go to WDWMagic.com and search for FastPass and be ready to wade through the barrage of negative comments about the process. Also, there have been serious issues with counterfeit FPs and people were selling them on Ebay at one point.

It would require a few more staffers, and would possibly make the stand by lines longer.

As for the pro's to the system, I'd add that making guests happy by not having them stand in line would be a pretty big one. More time for them to go buy merchandise and food. Believe me, Disney doesn't have it just out of the goodness of their hearts.

RD

But see, the lines are not long enough for it to be an issue. July 4th weekend, the day of the Freedom Concert, and yesterday were probably the most crowded days at the park and while I don't have first hand knowledge, I don't think the lines were moving all that slow. At least not slow enough to justify this huge addition to the park, which as Terpy pointed out would likely not be free at Cedar Fair properties like it is at Disney. Universal offers a paid system and it made the lines ridiculously slow - even more so than Disney.

[The Interpreter]

At Great Adventure, the amounts charged for premium access are simply breathtaking...

And yet there are many takers. This is a very profitable venture for the park...

To be fair, Great Adventure on a summer Saturday with this access can be a pleasure...without it, one is better off visiting Atlantic City or Wildwood....the same can be said of many Saturdays at Six Flags Over Georgia.

[RD Reynolds]

I've been to Disney over 25 times since 2004. I frequent Disney message boards daily. There is MUCH talk of unfairness and negativity towards Fast Pass... go to WDWMagic.com and search for FastPass and be ready to wade through the barrage of negative comments about the process. Also, there have been serious issues with counterfeit FPs and people were selling them on Ebay at one point.

Interesting. I guess the folks I talk with about it simply understand how to use the FP system and thus love it. In fact, when my Dis friends go to KI they all, without exception, ask the same thing: why no FP system at KI?

Thanks for chiming in, very interesting discussion we're all having here.

RD

[tlvtr]

I wish there was a way to add single rider lines to all the big rides. Every time a train runs with an empty seat, a kitten cries. . .

In all seriousness, I realize that implementing single rider lines park-wide is completely impractical. Maybe some rides like backlot and Invertigo that consistently have long lines and have lower capacity would be a good place to start. Even without a separate line, having an attendant assigning you a seat and making sure that all seats are filled could be done?

Although, I'm probably overly spoiled by ERT and early spring visits, so I get frustrated by any line longer than 15 minutes. I should probably just get over it.

[DeLorean Rider]

In theory, FastPass is brilliant. Unfortunately at Disney the ride operators and/or management do not understand that for it to work properly, it must be used properly. Let me explain.

They have calculated the number of FastPasses that can be distributed at what time frame as to disrupt the standby line flow of traffic as little as possible. This works great if the deadline to use the FastPass is enforced. It never is. So what happens is that people get a FP, don't use it during the hour long window they are supposed to, and then return whenever they want. This nullifies the formula that FP uses and then creates terribly long waits for the standby line.

These are some mighty strong words. "Unfortunately at Disney the ride operators and/or management do not understand that for it to work properly." Now, I have been a ride operator on a fast pass attraction, and I have helped program and update the fastpass system both at the individual attraction level, at the park level, and property wide.

Are you saying we don't understand the fastpass system, the system that we use daily and have to explain to thousands? Are you saying that while programming, I didn't take into consideration the possibility of late comers? Are you saying that we have done no research to accurately hypothesize the number of people that will come late? Weird, I wonder what data the Industrial Engineering Dept. was actually collecting. Why dont you tell me exactly how the fastpass system works. PLEASE tell me.

This is my favorite: "this nullifies the formula that FP uses"

wow... if you could only see the programming that goes into the Fastpass system.

You know what, please, tell me what should be changed. Please enlighten me as to how the system could be better written. Oh and while you're at it, explaing to me how the family of 4 from Michigan is going to be happy spending thousands on a disney trip, then being told they cannot ride a ride because they were late becuase their 6 year old wanted to meet Mickey Mouse. Clearly you have all the answers.

I've been to Disney over 25 times since 2004. I frequent Disney message boards daily. There is MUCH talk of unfairness and negativity towards Fast Pass... go to WDWMagic.com and search for FastPass and be ready to wade through the barrage of negative comments about the process. Also, there have been serious issues with counterfeit FPs and people were selling them on Ebay at one point.

Clearly you are an expert because you read the internet message boards.

[MarketingExpress]

^^Believe it or not this is actually something that I really pushed for, especially on IJST when it first opened. I requested until I was blue in the face (and not from blueberry ice cream) for them to convert the speed lane to a single rider line so it would make the seperator's job easier and more efficient. I even took it upon myself to try it out for an hour or two every now and then only to find that there aren't as many single riders as you might think.

I do think a single rider line would work best on certain rides like Delirium, Invertigo, DT, Beast (on busy days), FOF, & Daimondback (which obviously already has one)

[XGatorHead 8904]

Great post, DeLorean Rider! I was wondering how long it would be before you chimed in on the subject!

I, for one, absolutely LOVE WDW's FastPass system. It's an excellent tool to help the guests fit everything in during their visit, especially those of us with kids who don't visit the parks more than once a year, and only spend one day in each park. On our last visit, I don't know that we would have even been able to do Toy Story Midway Mania without it. We had my stepmother who has trouble standing/walking for long periods of time, plus a then-three year old GatorGirl. The standby line was 1 1/2 to 2 hours, which would not have been handled well by either of them (I just regret not seeing Mr. Potato Head, but I'd rather have missed out on that than deal with a potentially grumpy little girl). Through the years it also allowed Mrs. Gator & I to do Soarin' quicker while the other kept GatorGirl occupied, both of us to do Tower of Terror while GatorGirl took a nap, both of us to do Space Mountain (I took GatorGirl on Astro Orbiters... my first time on the ride, and Mrs. Gator took her on the People Mover), and me to do Rockin' Roller Coaster. Not to mention the countless other times it helped bypass long lines on all the other rides that all of us could ride together. You just need to know how to use it.

One of my first times using it, I got a FastPass for Test Track. When it was my time to go, a storm with heavy lightning hit Epcot and the ride closed. We went off to do other things, and by the time we were done the time on the FastPass had expired. I thought that I missed my opportunity. I didn't find out until later on this website from a post of DeLorean Rider's that they could still be used after the end time on the ticket. Since then I've used that tidbit of knowledge to my advantage (but I have yet to ride Test Track! ). Just from this personal experience, I wonder does the average park guest know that they have more than the alloted time printed on the ticket? I think they probably don't. Having the end time on there probably acts as a deterant and helps in the long run.

A friend of mine is an engineer at WDW, his work involves theoretical ride capacity vs. actual ride capacity. He tried to explain to me exactly what he does, but it was little over my head. But from him and from personal experience, I know Disney does a lot of research into ride wait times. They pass out these plastic cards (or at least they did the last few times I was there a few years ago) every so often at the beginning of the line, and the person that they give it to hands it to the ride op in the station before getting on the ride. These are used to determine the wait time. I got one once on It's a Small World when the ride was a walk on. And once we went to Epcot with my engineer friend, and they handed him a card at the beginning of Maelstrom's line. We had a good laugh that out of all the people in our group, they gave it to him. If FastPass didn't exist, those people would still be in the standby line in front of you, which would make the standby line even longer. To say that Disney doesn't understand is just preposterous.

I've also used the QBot at Dollywood last year for Christmas in the Smokies. It was well worth the small fee that we had to pay, since it gave the wait times for various rides, allowed you to reserve a spot from anywhere in the park (unlike Disney where you have to go to the ride for a ticket), and allowed us to reserve spots at the shows when we first picked it up. We want to go again this year but it's up in the air... they're closing Mrs. Gator's plant so she will be out of a job 10/29... but if she does get a job rather quickly, you can bet we'll be there and using Q2Q again!

[Cody]

Simple answer:

KI doesn't need a Fast Pass system.

Why?

Adventure Express: 1600 Riders per hour

BSC: 750 Riders per hour

Beast: 1200-1300 Riders per hour

Diamond back: 1620 Riders per hour

Firehawk: 1200 Riders per hour

Flight Deck: 1200 Riders per hour

FOF: 2,000 Riders per hour

FAAC: 650 Riders per hour

Invertigo: 850 Riders per hour

Racer(s): 2640 Riders per hour

Vortex: 1600 RIders per hour

[DeLorean Rider]

Simple answer:

KI doesn't need a Fast Pass system.

Why?

Adventure Express: 1600 Riders per hour

BSC: 750 Riders per hour

Beast: 1200-1300 Riders per hour

Diamond back: 1620 Riders per hour

Firehawk: 1200 Riders per hour

Flight Deck: 1200 Riders per hour

FOF: 2,000 Riders per hour

FAAC: 650 Riders per hour

Invertigo: 850 Riders per hour

Racer(s): 2640 Riders per hour

Vortex: 1600 RIders per hour

Nice joke.

The answer is indeed simple. KI doesn't have near the attendance of any Disney Park.

[DaveStroem]

I love FP at WDW, and have used it extremely efficiently on both of last years trips. I found it funny, just how many people didn't even know that the system was available to ALL guests. They just assumed that it was something special for on property guests or was an extra charge. As to using them late, we did that almost every time we used them. The bus drivers often mentioned this as did many of the attendants at the FP machines.

As to KI, the longest line I have waited in this season was 45 minutes for Diamondback during a haunt Saturday night. I don't think that KI even at it's busiest comes close to a typical day at WDW.