KIfan73 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Possibly even more mysterious is Terps' recent usage of diverse fonts! (is he trying to tell us something?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Sometimes people change....in more ways than one...and there's been a hint or two of that, too... Terp who says perhaps it is too early to retire for the evening, or... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan73 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 ...or maybe it's just for the helvetica of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 In addition to the silence from Sandusky, there has also been silence from Q lately. My guess - the two parties are busy negotiating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 In addition to the silence from Sandusky, there has also been silence from Q lately. My guess - the two parties are busy negotiating. LOL, Not holding my breathe on that. I have a question, if Q is so unhappy why do they not just sell off their shares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Because they think the company is greatly undervalued...if it had proper management. They already own more than 18 percent of the shares. Mr. Raynor could easily purchase all the rest if he so desired...and may still yet do exactly that. The problem is that Cedar Fair LP is just that...an LP. Acquiring control of such a company is nowhere near as easy as doing so with other forms of ownership. Unit holders should be very glad Q is around. Otherwise, they'd probably been sold out to Apollo for $11.50 a unit last April... A question for you...do you think Mr. Kinzel is worth the nearly $20 million in compensation he took last year? Not to mention the money his son 'earned' as the general manager at Carowinds? Money earned by doing such things as recommending the Apollo sale, yet admitting he was an operations guy, not a finance guy? Put another way, what was the distribution per unit last year? Do you realize that Mr. Kinzel's take alone was 36 cents for each one of those approximately 55 million units? Put another way, he made more last year than was distributed to unit holders. Far more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I'm just hoping that Q stays out of the Cedar Fair board. I said before that if Q gets in, how do we know that they won't screw up? Six Flags had 2 guys on the board who owned big named company's. A few of them are the Red Sox, Redskins, and Johnny Rockets. An investment company trying to run a themepark company isn't a good thing. Cedar Fair saved the Paramount Parks when they bought them. Can you just thing about what would of happened of Six Flags got ahold of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 I'm just hoping that Q stays out of the Cedar Fair board. I said before that if Q gets in, how do we know that they won't screw up? Six Flags had 2 guys on the board who owned big named company's. A few of them are the Red Sox, Redskins, and Johnny Rockets. An investment company trying to run a themepark company isn't a good thing. Cedar Fair saved the Paramount Parks when they bought them. Can you just thing about what would of happened of Six Flags got ahold of them? You are a little late. Q already has named two people to the board...and Cedar Fair LP (or more properly, Cedar Fair Management, Inc.) let them do it. Six Flags today has little to nothing to do with Six Flags of the past. And, oh, by the way. Who runs it? The Chief Operating Officer of Six Flags is the former CEO and Chairman of Paramount Parks. He also was a Kings Island General Manager. Before he was COO of Six Flags, he was the Interim Chairman and CEO of Six Flags. But that's another Story. Cedar Fair SAVED Paramount Parks? Please....That's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 And it could be argued that some of the decisions that Cedar Fair has made have been detrimental to Kings Island. Outrageous food prices with terrible quality anyone? Under Paramount, Kings Island used to have an executive chef position. I believe that the position was one of the many that Cedar Fair eliminated upon its takeover of the Paramount Parks. Yes, as a whole, Cedar Fair has made great strides in improving the look of Kings Island and updating its infrastructure (the renovation of Coney Mall this year is a prime example). However, the Paramount Parks were a pretty well run organization before Cedar Fair came along. They just weren`t installing the mega million dollar coaster additions, because they realized that they could see the same ROI on smaller, less expensive attractions. Some would argue that the KI and the former Paramount Parks were actually better before they were taken over by Cedar Fair, but that is a topic for another date and time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Because they think the company is greatly undervalued...if it had proper management. They already own more than 18 percent of the shares. Mr. Raynor could easily purchase all the rest if he so desired...and may still yet do exactly that. The problem is that Cedar Fair LP is just that...an LP. Acquiring control of such a company is nowhere near as easy as doing so with other forms of ownership. Unit holders should be very glad Q is around. Otherwise, they'd probably been sold out to Apollo for $11.50 a unit last April... A question for you...do you think Mr. Kinzel is worth the nearly $20 million in compensation he took last year? Not to mention the money his son 'earned' as the general manager at Carowinds? Money earned by doing such things as recommending the Apollo sale, yet admitting he was an operations guy, not a finance guy? Put another way, what was the distribution per unit last year? Do you realize that Mr. Kinzel's take alone was 36 cents for each one of those approximately 55 million units? Put another way, he made more last year than was distributed to unit holders. Far more... No, he should get the same distribution as every other share holder. I also never said that CF was clear of any wrong doing either. I do think that Q is trying to do the correct thing for the until holds, but not sure they are going about it the best way. Do I know of a better way, no. I also think they have other motives themselves we have not heard about. Causing/creating more expenses and harm for a company you are trying to make an investment from seems counter productive to me. I ask questions on here hoping to get some insight from others more intelligent than I so I can form a more informed opinion about the matter. I do appreciate the insight and discussion. Here is another one, let's say for instance the accusations that Q has publicly made are false. Does CF have any legal action they could take against Q? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Sure...libel, slander, false light and more.... But so far every time Q has filed a legal action against Cedar Fair, the company seems to have settled it by taking the action that Q is seeking...from the vote on these two resolutions to adding board members....just to name two prominent public legal actions... By the way, these two resolutions were non-binding, yet Cedar Fair (and Q) spent small fortunes in advertising and in sending letters to unitholders. Makes you wonder, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 By the way, these two resolutions were non-binding, yet Cedar Fair (and Q) spent small fortunes in advertising and in sending letters to unitholders. Makes you wonder, no? That is what makes me think Q has arterial motives, but that is just my thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 By the way, these two resolutions were non-binding, yet Cedar Fair (and Q) spent small fortunes in advertising and in sending letters to unitholders. Makes you wonder, no? That is what makes me think Q has arterial motives, but that is just my thinking. I think you meant ulterior...but then again sometimes it seems they are out for blood with Mr. Kinzel, so perhaps you meant perzactly what you said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 By the way, these two resolutions were non-binding, yet Cedar Fair (and Q) spent small fortunes in advertising and in sending letters to unitholders. Makes you wonder, no? That is what makes me think Q has arterial motives, but that is just my thinking. I think you meant ulterior...but then again sometimes it seems they are out for blood with Mr. Kinzel, so perhaps you meant perzactly what you said! Yeah, I should have made it bold or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Maybe I'm missing something, but I think Q's motivation is pretty obvious - they are an INVESTMENT group. They have a responsibility to those that invested money with them (that they now have used to buy units of FUN) to try and make a good return on that investment. So far it is working ok - FUN is up quite a bit from the average price that they paid. What they are doing now is what THEY think is best to continue to grow the value of Cedar Fair. What is unknown (and is being argued) is whether they are looking for a short term bump or a long term gain. In addition, what they think is directly at odds with many (all?) of the Cedar Fair board. The reality, in my opinion, is that they hold so many units that they have to be at least somewhat interested in the long term - if they tried to exit their full position in FUN I believe the price would crash (remember how much it climbed as they accumulated shares despite the potential sale/merger at $11.50). In addition, they don't want to be owners of worthless units if Cedar Fair ends up in bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 And often investment companies buy when they view management as underperforming, stale and set in their ways. I think that is what Q saw here...they bought as the sale to Apollo was proposed...they saw an $11.50 per unit sale price as way undervaluing the potential for the company, and time has proven them right. What they plan next, and how they plan to make that happen is for us to figure out...if we can. I find their conversations with Mr. Jack Falfas to be most interesting of all the clues we have available to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Worthy of a full read: What's Next For Cedar Fair? http://www.sanduskyregister.com/news/2011/jan/22/cfahead012011tjxml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 A very interesting read. Lots of good quotes in the article. I second Terpy`s suggestion of a full read. This one quote, as Interpreter has pointed out before, is in this article: Cedar Fair's board said it's not bound by the unitholder vote, and board members haven't revealed just how quickly they'll move to name a new chairman. Likewise, they are not bound to any outcome of the vote over the increase in cash distributions. I`m beginning to wonder if we will hear any mention about the final vote count until the conference call by Cedar Fair in the middle of February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 If they weren't concerned, though, they'd not have fought so stridently and so valiantly against the proposals as they did. And when even the Sandusky Register only thinly veils its skepticism that the voting is not thoroughly counted, you know something is up. You can also read between the lines and feel the fear a new Chairman and/or CEO could pull the HQ from Sandusky and/or quit making Cedar Point the crown jewel with the lion's share of investment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Yes. That was a very evident overtone in that article. I could see the corporate headquarters leaving Sandusky, if for no other reason, than to have the corporate headquarters located near a major airport. Currently, the closest airport with domestic flights to Sandusky is located in Cleveland. Not exactly an ideal place for a company where they have parks scattered around the country. Although, I suppose there maybe a smaller airport that allows for chartered jets to take off (which maybe how the executives from Cedar Fair travel). Yes, Cedar Fair did recently build a new corporate head quarters building in Cedar Point a few years back, but that doesn`t mean too much. If a new CEO took over, they could very easily move the corporate offices. (Remember that originally, the corporate offices for Kings Entertainment Company (KECO), was located in Cincinnati. Upon the sale of KECO to Paramount, they decided to move the corporate headquarters to Charlotte, NC, in land that was leased, and not on Carowinds property. The headquarters remained there until Cedar Fair bought the Paramount Parks, and they closed that corporate headquarters office and consolidated all the corporate functions into the Sandusky location. Interesting times lay ahead for Cedar Fair, that is for sure. I still see continued investment in Cedar Point even under a new CEO and Chairman. Why? Because it makes good business sense to continue to invest and attract visitors to Cedar Point. They have the largest concentration of hotel rooms that they own associated with Cedar Point, so in turn, they also can have the largest capture of out of park revenue from the Sandusky property. Ie, installing a new roller coaster at Cedar Point will not only see an increase in attendance (which hopefully should lead to more admissions and in park spending), but also an increase in hotel bookings. So they can get more bang for their buck in a sense. That being said, it has been stated from time to time, which four parks they consider to be among their best performing parks. And, ironically enough, those four parks are the ones receiving the WindSeeker rides for this season! Cedar Point, Knott`s Berry Farm, Canada`s Wonderland, and Kings Island. It will be interesting to see who the selection for the next CEO is, and if it will impact the capital expenditures planned for the 2012 season. Only time will tell, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 It will be even more interesting to see who the next Chairman is...and as the article says, Q wants that person involved in picking the CEO.... Terp, who wouldn't necessarily count certain people from Paramount Parks' past out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Even if said people are working at a world class, privately held amusement park company? One that already has some local interests in the Cincinnati area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 ...especially that one...but non-compete clauses would forbid that for quite some time.... That woman, especially, could do wonders with Cedar Fair, I just know it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Kinzel alleges Raynor's ultimate goal is to merge Cedar Fair with the Six Flags amusement park chain. Six Flags filed for bankruptcy in June 2009 but left restructuring in May 2010. Q Investments has sidestepped questions about any proposal to merge Cedar Fair and Six Flags. Any Comments on what will happen if this happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 It's too early to tell, but suffice it to say many already miss Messrs Shapiro and Snyder. Messrs Reid-Anderson and Weber are cutting costs left and right, and some of the cuts have hit things many park goers hold dear (like Temple of the Tiger at Great Adventure, chain-wide parking for parking passes, some shows, park schedules, etc.) On this, see: http://www.KICentral...ndpost&p=409078 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Not to mention, haven`t all of the Glow in the Park parades at the State side parks been cut for this year as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Yep...and intellectual property like Wiggles World, Thomas the Train.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 What with a proxy fight in progress, Q rightly filed with the SEC comments made by it and/or Mr. Raynor: We would like the new chairman to have a significant role in the process. It serves all unitholders the best to have a truly independent chairman when selecting a new CEO.Ultimately, the new chairman ought to be allowed to participate in the hunt for a new CEO. We believe Dick Kinzel has done a good job of running the parks but his downfall has been his poor financial decisions. Our focus right now is just trying to get the best corporate governance policies implemented at this company. If we fail to accomplish that, then we can talk about the next steps. http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/811532/000089742311000013/cfquotes012411.htm Though quotes were given to the press by/on behalf of management, no such filing has been seen from FUN...as before. Separately, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 KINZEL NO LONGER CHAIRMAN: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/811532/000119312511012981/d8k.htm On January 24, 2011, Dick Kinzel voluntarily relinquished his position as the Chairman of the Board of Directors of Cedar Fair Management, Inc., the general partner (the “General Partner”) of Cedar Fair, L.P. (“Cedar Fair”), effective immediately, but will continue as a Director, President and Chief Executive Officer of the General Partner. The Board of Directors appointed C. Thomas Harvie to serve as the new non-executive chairman of the Board of Directors. Mr. Harvie will continue to serve as an independent director, as he has since 2008, and will not be employed by the General Partner. On January 24, 2011, in connection with Mr. Kinzel’s voluntary relinquishment of his position as the Chairman of the Board of Directors, Cedar Fair and Mr. Kinzel amended Mr. Kinzel’s employment agreement to reflect his consent to relinquish his position as Chairman of the Board. Mr. Kinzel will receive the same compensation he would have received had he not resigned as Chairman of the Board of Directors. Cedar Fair issued a press release announcing Mr. Kinzel’s voluntary relinquishment of his position as Chairman of the Board of Directors and the appointment of C. Thomas Harvie as the new non-executive independent Chairman of the Board of Directors. A copy of the press release is attached hereto as Exhibit 99.1.... It is also noted there that proposal 2 (the redistribution proposal) failed, having gotten 49.33 percent of the votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 The press release referred to appears here: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23331&view=findpost&p=414500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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