Why Disneyworld is So much better than Kings Island..(No hating, Just constructive criticism)

[benred23]

Ok. Im going to start off this Topic by Saying, I Love Kings Island. Its been my Home Park and a Summer destination for as long as I can remember. No matter how many Dumb decisions I see them Making, their still going to be my park. Im creating this Thread for this reason. I just recently returned from a week long trip to Walt DisneyWorld in Orlando with my Family. Had a Simply Wonderful time. I walked around the Various parks taking in the sights and I found myself saying many more times than I can count, "Why Can't Kings Island do this?" Generally Every Ride at Disney is an experience. From Test Track, To Soarin, To Space Mountain, To Expedition Everest and the list goes on and on. Generally every ride has its own story and Theme. Complete with Cast Members wearing Corrosponding Outfits to fit the Theme of the Ride. We got a glimpse at How good Kings Island could be with themeing when Paramount owned it. Top Gun Operators wore flight suits, Etc. And Dont even get me started on the Fast pass system at Disney as opposed to the Joke of a one we have here at Kings Island. I guess my point is this, How hard would it be for Kings Island to Envolve themeing into its rides? It would make the experience so much more enjoyable for the Public and Make each ride an Experience and not just a Weee, Okay lets get off.. Kind of thing. I know Im basically comparing apples to oranges here. Kings Island will never be the Vacation destination that a Disney Destination would be, But they could be so so much better!

[bkroz]

Their parks are destination parks that are open 365 days a year and have entered global lexicon as destinations. Pop culture has us believe that every "normal" family goes to Walt Disney World, no matter wealth, status, or location. The parks' origins as being connected to a famous cartoonist and his revolutionary work catapulted the parks into stardom. Many modern theme parks are based on the Disney parks. The hub-and-spokes layout (with a central icon and "lands" radiating outward) started with Disneyland, and is employed by Kings Island.

In modern terms, Disney Parks is a division of the massive Walt Disney Company, one of the largest companies on the planet. It's not usual for their parks to build new rides that cost hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. A recent article posted on this website notes that World of Color at Disney California Adventure cost $100,000,000 which is approximately seventeen times more than Cedar Point's new entertainment offering for 2012. World of Color, by the way, is just part of a $1.2 billion reconstruction effort to transform an eleven year old theme park into something better. Even for the Disney corporation, $1.2 billion is a lot of money, but Cedar Fair's additions normally top off at around $25,000,000 - much more appropriate for the seasonal, locally-oriented family thrill parks they own.

The "budget" versions of Tower of Terror built in California and Paris reportedly cost around $200,000,000 each - the equivalent of each Cedar Fair park getting a "Diamondback" or equally sized addition in the same year. Disney spends copious amounts of money on themeing and storytelling, which is something that Cedar Fair has historically not valued as highly. Even now, with the former president of Disneyland presiding over Cedar Fair as CEO, the budget of this one-off amusement park operator will never ever approach the hundred-million dollar installations that happen at Disney's international destination parks.

In 2011, 9 of the top 11 most visited theme parks worldwide were owned by Disney or operated under the Disney name. Narrowing it down the America, the six Disney parks here were the six most attended of all amusement parks by far. It's a completely different ball game. It's the minor leagues vs. the major leagues. No one blames the minor leagues for having smaller stadium, smaller budgets, etc. because that's the nature of their business.

You can find plenty of interesting statistics and graphics in this PDF.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Do you know how much money Disney dishes out for a ride? Very few people know the exact amount, but I have heard they are not cheap. Disney has people who go in every night and walk throughout the rides to make sure their paint job is up to par and the animatronics work.

Kings Island could not afford to do what Disney does. Look at the Starlight Spectacular as a fine example. Disney would of done so much more than KI did and maintained it every day.

That is just one example of many, many, many, more I could list.

[KIBOB]

Their parks are destination parks that are open 365 days a year and have entered global lexicon as destinations. Pop culture has us believe that every normal family goes to Walt Disney World. The park's origins as being connected to a famous cartoonist and his revolutionary work catapulted the parks into stardom.

In modern terms, Disney Parks is a division of the massive Walt Disney Company. It's not usual for their parks to build new rides that cost hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. A recent article posted on this website notes that World of Color at Disney California Adventure cost $100,000,000 which is approximately seventeen times more than Cedar Point's new entertainment offering for 2012. World of Color, by the way, is just part of a $1.2 billion reconstruction effort to transform an eleven year old theme park into something better. Even for the Disney corporation, $1.2 billion is a lot of money, but Cedar Fair's additions normally top off at around $25,000,000 - much more appropriate for the seasonal, locally-oriented family thrill parks they own.

The "budget" versions of Tower of Terror built in California and Paris reportedly cost around $200,000,000 each - the equivalent of each Cedar Fair park getting a "Diamondback" or equally sized addition in the same year. Disney spends copious amounts of money on themeing and storytelling, which is something that Cedar Fair has historically not valued as highly. Even now, with the former president of Disneyland presiding over Cedar Fair as CEO, the budget of this one-off amusement park operator will never ever approach the billion dollar transactions that happen at Disney's international destination parks.

In 2011, 9 of the top 11 most visited theme parks worldwide were owned by Disney or operated under the Disney name. It's a completely different ball game. It's the minor leagues vs. the major leagues. No one blames the minor leagues for having smaller stadium, smaller budgets, etc. because that's the nature of their business.

I totally agree. With it's current rank (and location for that matter) Kings Island or any of the other Cedar Fair parks will NEVER reach the level of intricacy and massive capital expenditures of Disney Parks. However, many parks in the Cedar Fair chain are capable of being great regional theme parks. Sure, they will never be on the level of immersion as Disney, but a shift in focus could do wonders, which is what I hope the new CEO will be able to pull off. In fact it appears as though he has already begun to done so.

After all, I do recall that during an interview with Kinzel after the aquisition of Paramount Parks, when the question of theme came into the conversation, Kinzel thought of it as simply "uneeded lipstick on a carnival", when in reality, it can achieve much, much more. I've often wondered if the disaster that was Dispatch Master Transport was one of the factors that influenced the former CEO's views.

[bkroz]

When many of Disney's rides open, they're also sponsored.

Epcot is probably the best example. "Spaceship Earth, presented by Siemens AG." "Soarin' sponsored by Nestle." "Mission: SPACE, presented by Hewlett-Packard." Especially early on, Disney finds corporations to sponsor to their rides. Those corporations help pay for the ride's care in exchange for the advertising space. For seven years after Disneyland's Indiana Jones Adventure opened in 1995, it was sponsored by AT&T. Cards passed out in the queue with translators of the ancient hieroglyphic language carved in the queue's walls had advertisements for AT&T on the back, and AT&T's logo was placed next to the ride's on park maps and signage. It's also mutually beneficial in that the sponsors want their name applied to a quality product, which means they help pay for expensive maintenance of effects, etc. (If AT&T had sponsored The Crypt, would it have changed? But the question is, would AT&T have sponsored The Crypt to begin with?)

Sponsorship deals end, or renegotiation can't be reached. But especially in attractions early years, its an essential part of funding the rides and keeping them in good condition. For years, people complained about the Gillete Mach 3 razor billboard near Top Gun's station and the appliques on the ride's trains. Take a visit to a Disney park and see how inundated with brands you are (though they're often better disguised):

• The Carnation Cafe on Main Street derives its name from the Nestle-owned Carnation brand of beverages, and has since 1958. The same is true of the Carnation Gardens next to the castle.
  
• Main Street also has the Coca-Cola Corner, but people excuse it as a thematically appropriate flashback to the cola parlors of the early 1900's. (Again, it's well disguised).
  
• Disney maps always say "Compliments of the Eastman-Kodak Company" and feature full-sized adds for Kodak on the back (many wonder how that will change as Kodak enters restructuring and shareholders inevitably will wonder why hundreds of thousands of maps must be printed daily, "compliments" of their debtor).
  
• "Kodak Picture Spots" are denoted by maps and signage all over the parks.
  
• At Disney California Adventure, the entire Golden Vine Winery was operated entirely by Mendocino wines. As with many initial investors in that park, the company pulled out and declared a loss in 2002.
  
• The Boudin Sourdough Bread Tour, the Mission Tortilla Factory, and the Ghiradelli Chocolate Tour at California Adventure are all owned by the companies listed in their names.
  
• A deal struck with McDonalds (which recently came to an end) placed branded McDonalds products all over in Disney Parks, including "Burger Invasion" at DCA and a number of shops in the Magic Kingdom. Logos abounded and products were clearly labeled.
  
• Advertisements for Disney Channel serieses and Disney films run rampant (even beyond the rides that are arguably just giant advertisements), but people think of that as "the nature of Disneyland," whereas if Paramount had an MTV advertisement, it was considered atrocious.
  

If you represented BMW's MINI brand, would you be excited to have it applied to the Backlot Stunt Coaster circa 2009? We know that the use of the MINI Cooper brand wasn't extended. We just assume it was that Kings Island was disinterested in continuing it... Maybe it was the other way around...

[jdawg1998]

A few rides could have better theme, like:

• Flight of Fear (a pre-show would be awesome)
  
• The Beast (instead of the music on the lift hill, maybe a story all told by sound, like someone screaming, a beast killing people, stuff like that, hah..)
  
• Flight Deck. They could do so much with that queue. Make it an experience like Disney. Add a storyline, make the queue actually interesting.
  

Boo Blasters might actually be the only perfectly themed ride.

[bkroz]

Boo Blasters might actually be the only perfectly themed ride.

And even then, we've all seen some effects in that ride break, with little to no effort to restoring them... "Boo Blasters, sponsored by Red Gold" might not let that happen... Red Gold wouldn't want its name associated with a ride where people stepped off saying, "Awe, last time it had ______. I guess it's broken."

[benred23]

Boo Blasters might actually be the only perfectly themed ride.

And even then, we've all seen some effects in that ride break, with little to no effort to restoring them... "Boo Blasters, sponsored by Red Gold" might not let that happen... Red Gold wouldn't want its name associated with a ride where people stepped off saying, "Awe, last time it had ______. I guess it's broken."

[RingMaster]

A few rides could have better theme, like:

• Flight of Fear (a pre-show would be awesome)
  
• The Beast (instead of the music on the lift hill, maybe a story all told by sound, like someone screaming, a beast killing people, stuff like that, hah..)
  
• Flight Deck. They could do so much with that queue. Make it an experience like Disney. Add a storyline, make the queue actually interesting.
  

Boo Blasters might actually be the only perfectly themed ride.

• Flight of Fear does have a pre-show with the film that plays on the TVs in the hangar. Granted, it's not like it was years ago when the surroundings were in sync with what was happening on screen (mostly the lights matching up with the chaos and even having the hangar go pitch black simulating a power failure), but it's a pre-show nonetheless.
  
• There are actually sound effects played amidst the music of a monster growling. Besides, the soundtrack on the lift hill is fine, Seibert and all.
  
• Flight Deck used to have a (somewhat) elaborate queue experience way back when it first opened, as guests walked through a sort of debriefing room on an airport hangar, and fog would occasionally billow into the station itself.
  

And I really wouldn't try to compare Kings Island to a Disney park, like most people here have pointed out. A better example would be a park like Dollywood, or possibly Busch Gardens Williamsburg (some European parks like Phantasialand, Alton Towers, and Europa Park would work, too).

[kingsrattler]

More than the parks mentioned to compare Kings Island to, I would compare it to a park like Six Flags OG or other SIX parks (with exception to MM, its comparison better matching up with that of Cedar Point) Regional parks owned by a larger company with parks scattered from coast to coast. And while I'm sure there are some that would differ from me in opinion, I would take a day at a Cedar Fair park over a SIX park 8 days out of 10.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

^ Paging Terpy.

[The Interpreter]

And I'd prefer a day at Great Adventure to a season at Maple Grove. By far, the best Six Flags parks, in my opinion, are Great Adventure, Six Flags Over Texas, Fiesta Texas and Six Flags Great America. For many, many years, my favorite Cedar Fair park was Dorney. These days, I'd say Canada's Wonderland. By far.

Oh, my favorite Six Flags in California is in Vallejo. It's a great discovery.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

It was only a matter of time before terpy would start Raven about his Great Adventures to New Jersey or counting the flags flying over Georgia.

[kingsrattler]

He was who came to mind when referencing those with differing opinions, haha.

[The Interpreter]

Please don't get me wrong, I love Maple Grove. It has some of the best rides in the world. But it is, in opinion, far from a cohesive, wonderful immersive experience for the entire family. Mr. Ouimet will doubtless give Messrs Reid-Anderson and Weber a run for family entertainment dollars.

It's just that I know what makes me happy. Great Adventure never fails to make me giddily happy, a kid again, surrounded by a spectacle of wonder and awe. Canada's Wonderland does, too. There was a time, under Taft, KECO and the early Paramount days when Kings Island did, too. Those days are coming again. I can feel it.

Mr. Reid-Anderson and Mr.Weber must think so, too. Watch MM. And that's all I can say about that. For now. Well, not just MM.

Watch them all. What they DO is far more important than what they say.

[BB1]

It is true on how CF does not do a greater job than Disney nor Paramount, the Boomerang Bay concept was one of the most greatest types of waterparks that i have seen...untill they tore it down. In which it leads me to say this Cedar Fair in my stand point is more for the thrill, not the theme, unlike Disney Parks, they make sure the thrill is there when the "imagineering" is set for the thrill and theme to coincide so well that the thrill is the theme! The only good themed ride that i saw in KI since the CF purchase was the "robo dino" attraction, which was kind of out of place to begin with. Dont get me wrong but i two love Kings Island, its my home park and always will be, it is only like you said constructive criticism. To finalize this statement i would like to say this, although we wish some things can be done, the money cannot be made in this time sorry to say, Disney has mega loads of cash in their wallets making them be a larger company.

[bkroz]

You are making good points.

[mccarthysnerd]

To me, Kings Island and Disneyworld are not the same type of theme park.........

Kings Island is a family park BUT it is not the same level of a family park as Disneyworld.

It is more of a thrill park than a family park, so they can't really be compared to me.

[bkroz]

And even "family park"s are not the same. If they were, The Magic Kingdom and Idlewild would be the same, and they're not even comparable (which isn't to say The Magic Kingdom is the clear-cut winner in all or even most categories!).

There's so much at play here. Amusement park vs. theme park. Family park vs. thrill park. Pricing strategies. Location. Operations. Intellectual properties. Ownership. Budgets. Pop culture. Advertising. Reach. Entertainment. Amenities. Accommodations. Ease of access. Target demographic. Pricing strategies.

The Magic Kingdom and Epcot are identical in admission and pricing strategies. Their advertising and target demographic may be worlds apart... Same for The Magic Kingdom and Disneyland. Same for Kings Island and Cedar Point. Same for Cedar Point and Epcot. Disney World's parks are "better" than Kings Islands in some people's opinions in some ways, but that isn't always the case. Like I said, it's a different ball game.

[RD Reynolds]

I think the thing is, KI COULD do better theming pretty easily. Everyone thinks theming has to be a major, costly undertaking. It doesn't. Start with SIMPLE things, like changing the music on International Street. The cost do so would be completely minimal, and the effect would be great.

[westcoaster]

Well this is so hard to compare why its better, of course great topic to start love freedom we have to explain our opinions in life.

However so hard to compare Kings Island to any disney empire parks.

[CoasterGeek101]

They both have pros and cons.

Kings Island is more of a thrill park, with some attractions designed for the family, and not as crowded and not as expensive. Only open Spring through Fall.

Disney World(which I have been to many times) is 100% family designed and the money they spend on rides like Tower of Terror could almost buy half of Kings Island.

[homestar92]

I think everyone has already stated the meat and potatoes of my argument. I've been to Disneyworld once. I loved the experience. I rode Space Mountain, my first ever roller coaster there. But If I'm choosing where I want to go, with only my own interests in mind, I would choose KI over Disney World any time. They offer 100% different experiences, and for me, Kings Island is a much more fun park.

[RD Reynolds]

I think the issue is that KI, back in the day, was more of a THEME park. IS had truly an 'international' flavor; Hanna Barbara Land had the great themed Enchanted Voyage. Rivertown had that feel as well.

So I think old-timers like myself remember those days, and wish it was more like that still. It's not, and may never be again. It doesn't make KI bad, as they've chosen to focus on thrill rides. If you like straight up thrill rides, KI smokes any single park Disney has. Disney has some great thrill rides, but in a single park in quantity like KI? Nope, not even close.

I just wish that KI would do some small things to bring SOME theming back to the park. Change some music, fix up the broken windows on IS, that kinda thing. As I've said, a little can go a long way.

[The Interpreter]

Although I agree about the theming, I do not see Kings Island as in any way primarily a theme park. The Tower of Terror experience, alone, is far more thrilling than Kings Island's rides. Nor is Kings Island a show park, a coaster thrill park, a lush landscaped experience, etc.

It is here I think Mr. Ouimet and company will develop a vision for what KI is and who its audience is.

[benred23]

...As far as the argument goes that Kings Island Dosent have the revenue To do themeing, I Agree with RD Reynolds. Simple Changes Like Changing the music on International street to match them Theme of "International" Street would do Wanders for the Overall park Experience. Have the Workers working Flight Deck wear Flight Suits. just little things like that.

[Gordon Bombay]

Have the Workers working Flight Deck wear Flight Suits. just little things like that.

They did at one time. That's miserable to make a kid wear while it's hot out.

[Shaggy]

Disney parks have the backing of a largely successful studio/media/merchandise operation providing the means for highly themed rides.

Kings Island had a (albeit smaller) version of that at one point - and we saw the most expensive and most heavily themed rides in their history.

There are many factors as to why KI is not, nor ever was, on par with the Disney experience. Ultimately it boils down to one thing... the financial pockets aren't deep enough.

Comparing the two is futile. It's like comparing the financial and marketing resources of Skyline to McDonalds.

Shaggy

[Gordon Bombay]

^Well said Shaggy. I don't think anyone could've summed that up better.

The "highly themed, totally immersive, dynamic AND thrilling" days are gone.

Mr. Ouimet seems keen on providing guests with an "experience" from his staff. I've always had wonderful interactions with the staff of Kings Island, but he seems intent on making that experience even better. I think that's where you'll see KI learning from Disney.

[Rashiazz]

Cedar Fair parks have the thrills, Disney has the stories.