Geauga Lake /Cedar Fair Perspective

[The Interpreter]

Long.

Just released. (the date at the top is of the visit, not the article). May 22 to be exact.

Philosophical.

Deep.

Opinionated.

Worth reading.

Includes comments about, among other things, Kings Island:

http://www.rollercoasterphilosophy.com/2011/geauga-lake/

Worth the time.

Don't miss the comments.

[KIfan1980]

An interesting read - although really two articles in one:

- one on GL

- one on the coaster enthusiast community

As said - interesting.

[shark6495]

wow! A great article with great reader comments.... I think it is interesting to read about the demise of the park. It does make you look at CF just a bit different.

However, I loved the Online Coaster Enthusiasts Model.... is this what happens here at KIC? We have a tendency to not be too harsh unless its a ride that the company has already crushed....

Plus I love this quote

As a result, the discourse states that theme parks are no longer grateful for having fans; rather, fans should be grateful for having theme parks. Unlike the general public, who only owe theme parks their money, fans owe money and their continued, uncritical loyalty

I never realized CF owned most if not all of the Ohio and Michigan Parks.... So much for competition to make the parks better. Now we rely on the mother company to make decisions to make all the parks better with a moment of Sameness (WindSeeker?)

and why not here are some photos I took as I drove around the park about 2 years ago (nothing like in the article)

www.flickr.com/photos/49728734@N02/

[thunderbeast1968]

So Cedar Fair wants Geauga Lake to be a "premier" water park, what kind of expansions have they made? Slides, wave pools, attractions? Anyone know?

I think it's been forgotten, I do not remember any updates on here or Screamscape, or anywhere else for that matter.

I hope that I am wrong, but......

Heck, they spent a ton of money on revamping Kings Island water park. Holiday World has put in two major water attractions(I know, not Cedar Fair) But all has been pretty darn quiet in Cedar Fair's so called "premier" water park.

[The Interpreter]

$1.24 billion.

The answer, my friend, is in there.

[Dieseltech20]

Wow, that was a great article, will have to bookmark that site.

I really like the second half.

[stashua123]

Geauga Lake was just in a bad location Ohio, six flags/Cedar Fair could successfully run the park if it wasnt for being near kennywood and Cedar Point

[westcoaster]

Can you say when sea world left? the draw left, i feel it could have made it even with being in the middle of Cedar Point and Kennywood.

Loss of animals I feel did it in too!

[westcoaster]

thanks for the article it was great.

[bkroz]

Thoughts from a local:

SeaWorld Ohio and Geauga Lake operated for decades across the lake from one another as family parks that drew locals for generations. Combining them formed a fantastic theoretical partnership that made a lot of sense to people who had gone to one or the other over the years: I grew up at SeaWorld looking across the lake at the roller coasters and wondering why two parks would build so close to one another.

As we know now, combining them created far too large a park for a local audience, and trying to bolster the park above a local experience stressed the infrastructure. Two parking lots, some 600 acres, and a location billed as "Cleveland" while in reality being anything but... As a "mega-park," Six Flags Worlds of Adventure was doomed. Six Flags had (perhaps necessarily) focused on expanding the offerings to re-debut the park without considering increased visitorship, food sales, restroom use, etc. Transportation between the two sides of the lake shifted every year as they found the most useful way to combine the parks, and confusion ensued.

Cedar Fair was at least right in hoping to dial the park back to a small, local, family park. The first thing that required, in all fairness, was reducing the land size. All that land with two massive parking lots, separate ticket booths, separate entrances, two "main" gift shops, etc. was way too much for a family park. What people didn't like was the removal of the animals, because (be it under SeaWorld or Six Flags) they had grown up with dolphins, whales, sharks, etc. as part of their family amusements. Cedar Fair's move toward "WildWater Kingdom" was not recieved well up here with many people writing it off as relocating the rides from Six Flags' Hurricane Harbor to the ruins of SeaWorld just to fill up the space and get people to forget it.

Phase II of the waterpark was announced for 2007 and never happened. Imagine the frustration when our radio ads the last few years have trumpeted the "new family fun beach." Of course, it's not really a beach - it's a corner of the park with a giant checkers board and a three-point shot game (which costs extra). That's literally it. No sand, either. It's on concrete. This replacing the "Happy Harbor" climbing nets common in all SeaWorld parks. I can't imagine why they elected to tear that out, much less the tiny family flat rides like yo-yo swings, 4-D theater, and pharaoh's fury that were in it, now walled off mere inches from the current border of the park...

Especially as I grow up, it's so odd to think that two parks (much less a mega-park) were so close to home. A SeaWorld and a family thrill park right here in northeast Ohio... It's a shame that my kids will do without, and it's a shame that so much history has been shuffled and reduced to a waterpark that's offered no love.

[westcoaster]

True on the waterpark, are there any plans for the park?

[The Interpreter]

Nothing has been publicly stated in the short, medium or long term.

New FUN management may well affect Wildwater Kingdom's future. How remains to be seen.

If you are asking about the dry park, it's officially kaput. As for Big Dipper, time is rapidly running out.

[bkroz]

Blame it on me being part of the "new" wave of young industry enthusiasts who aren't as concerned with sacred ground as their elders, but I never understood the fuss about the Big Dipper. It was, of course, a fun ride and has an important historical significance in the area. If the option were available, I'd gladly see it restored and an upscale outdoor shopping area built around it along the lake.

That being said, I don't see the larger world-view significance of literally "saving" it. Any park would benefit from having "the" Big Dipper, but should each and every inch of lumber be meticulously deconstructed, labeled, and transported cross-country to rebuild what was a very standard family coaster that could easily be built from scratch?

Let's say, for example, that Six Flags Great America in Illinois fell in love with it. Then why not just use the exact dimensions and build a "clone?" What is there to be gained from using the actual remnants of Ohio's ride instead of just recreating it? And I'm actually asking that question so someone can answer it. Is nostalgia the prime reason? Would it be cheaper in the long run to re-use the already-cut wood from Ohio? The process to "save" it would seem so intricately intense, I just can't imagine that there aren't better ways to spend time and money. Let Six Flags rebuild it from new material then spend the leftover time, effort, and money supporting a local food pantry for a week or two or more...

I want to use the example: if Geauga Lake's Dominator had been abandoned, rusted, and left with physical and mechanical wear after years of Ohio winters, would it truly be "worth it" to take the time to restore it, take it apart, label it, and move it to Virginia instead of just building something new? but even that example doesn't stress the thousands of planks that compose the Big Dipper as opposed to the hundreds of Dominator, nor does it express the smaller, more cheaply recreated scale of the Big Dipper and the more damage doubtlessly done to the wood compared to steel.

Again, it might be irreverent of me to even ask, but I don't see the significance of using the actual physical pieces necessarily.

[The Interpreter]

A. The actual physical pieces need not be used...see the coaster from Libertyland in Memphis that was in essence re-created in Wisconsin.

B. A design may be re-created that would never be built today. John Miller's parabolic hills simply aren't found on today's wooden coasters. Forces exceed those typically found on USA wooden coasters, especially negative G's.

C. The Big Dipper trains, as is, would never be used on a just opened USA new wooden coaster. Nor would the braking system (except, perhaps, at Knoebel's).

[bkroz]

That all makes sense to me. Thanks.

[The Interpreter]

Now what *I* don't understand is why coaster like El Toro, The New Texas Giant and Bizarro of Massachusetts, just to name three, can have forces similar to or greater than John Miller's masterpieces, but new woods seemingly cannot (at least from TGG or GCI...see Hell Cat or whatever it is this week in NJ and Avalanche,

which also has a new name, Hellcat, in Wisconsin).

[TombRaiderFTW]

Excellent article. Geauga Lake was before my 'time'--I joined online enthusiast sites in April 2008. I never knew it existed until it didn't. It seems like it would have been the sort of place I liked in its smaller, apparently more charming years.

I do agree with the Online Enthusiast Morality, though, and find it very accurate. I'm guilty of participating in it, too. But I can't make up my mind on how I feel about the notion that enthusiasts should band together to make a change in their favorite parks.

On one hand, as they are a loyal fanbase, it feels like helpful criticism (i.e., something besides beating the dead horse of reopening x attraction or changing y area back to what it used to be) can be taken seriously, as they know the way their parks work better than the guests who make, at most, a visit or two a summer. (By comparison: we hear that Diamondback's been down, and the general consensus seems to be that we understand it's just a hiccup. We expect that there's likely some part on its way from the B&M headquarters, and we're excited to get the ride back as soon as possible. Several recent visitors to the park's Facebook page, whether the type to visit once a summer or frequent pass purchasers who don't have an understanding of mechanical issues, have expressed a feeling of betrayal and of having been ripped off. I realize that the world is not solely represented by the opinions expressed on Facebook, but it demonstrates an understanding that doesn't exist in any other customer opinion representations I've seen.) And if we've actually got the enthusiasm that our name suggests, then why shouldn't we be good PR for a park?

On the other hand, I don't think it's a secret that several of the largest enthusiast sites are home to several of the largest enthusiast complainers. These are the people who represent the enthusiast persona, at least in the age of the Online Enthusiast Morality. If we could actually band together to get parks' attentions, would it even be anything worthwhile? Would we continue unrealistically begging for our favorite ideal coaster models to make our way to the parks or the nostalgic rides from our younger years to make a reappearance? What exactly is a good thing for enthusiasts to suggest without the park asking first, anyway?

I guess I'm just thinking out loud.

[Dieseltech20]

One thing I have learned is to ignore posts made by people on the Kings Island FB page. Most of them make you wish you could reach through the monitor. Too many feel entitled or spread bad info.

[KIfan1980]

That's why KI isn't "liked" on my FB account. Same info available elsewhere (twitter, blog, newsletter, even here) without the distractions.

[shark6495]

I think there is a fine line between "complaining" and "critiquing" especially a big corporation such as FUN or SIXX, etc. Truth be told, companies look to make the park appeal to the largest amount of people with the most money to spend. If they listened to the enthusiasts or even just the people who love their home parks decisions would be made at the local level. Very rarely are decisions made at the local level for these parks. If it costs a lot of money, then its a guarantee that the decision is made in a board room, not a park conference room (unless said meeting happened in the park).

There is nothing wrong with being proactive with a company. If KI needs more family sit down theater shows, then the responsibility falls directly on the customer base to tell the company what they want. In this scenario the customers can be the enthusiasts or normal patrons. When it comes to saving old rides from being discarded like trash, the enthusiast crowd should become more vocal.

But ultimately it comes down to apathy. If the general public is okay letting XY and Z happen then it does. When a burger is served cold and no one complains then the company wont make the steps to fix it. Complaining or critiquing a company online is just part of the apathy. Doing it online may or may not get noticed. Odds are it will just get lost in the drowning voices of people complaining and critiques go unheard.

[CedarPointer]

One thing I have learned is to ignore posts made by people on the Kings Island FB page. Most of them make you wish you could reach through the monitor. Too many feel entitled or spread bad info.

What are you talking about? That would never happen!

How Much Is It , To Get In ?

GudNightt F/Book Gonna Hopp Intoo Thiss Bedd As Soon As Thee Roundd Get Outt Thee Showerr Goinq To Kings IslandTomaa Andd Gotta Wakee Upp Att 7:oo a.m. To Leavee Ndd Hitt Thee Roadd :]

Is it true that they are taking down the crypt?

Oh, nevermind.

[Dieseltech20]

Lodging a complaint isn't always easy. It took 3 weeks of the run a round to get our opening day snafu worked out. Was very frustrating. However, once the right person was FINALLY made aware, corrective action was swift and far beyond what we ever expected.

Also, some DO take action on FB complaints.

[shark6495]

Lodging a complaint isn't always easy. It took 3 weeks of the run a round to get our opening day snafu worked out. Was very frustrating. However, once the right person was FINALLY made aware, corrective action was swift and far beyond what we ever expected.

Also, some DO take action on FB complaints.

I understand that sometimes lodging a complaint is not easy, but like you found out, once you get through the chains of command it worked out well for you...

and some companies may follow up on FB complaints, Im sure action is quicker in other forms...

[Dieseltech20]

Yeah, the problem had already been fixed by the time we saw the email.

[PREMiERdrum]

An excellent piece of work from a good guy.

The Geauga situation was unfortunate, but like many I consider its fate to have been sealed the second Six Flags committed to the ill-advised mega expansion.

When the NE Ohio economy picks back up, I'd love to see a mixed use lifestyle concept on the property; Specialty retail, office space, condo/apartments, special events facility, and a reconstructed Big Dipper, Ferris Wheel, and Carousel as centerpieces. If only the area weren't glut with retail and housing as it is...