Next ride removal

[FamousLastWords]

Vortex might not be themed, but I don't think anytime soon they'll get rid of it. Look at Corkscrew at Cedar Point, built in what '76? King's Island is too cheap? Look at SOB (lots of bling bling there), or even your precious Tomb Raider, thats big bucks. Even Delirium and the waterpark. How do you know Vortex needs track replacements? And if any ride is overrated it's that piece of crap Tomb Raider.

First, I already explained why Vortex could someday be on the chopping block. Secondly, cheap is my word used to explain what was said to me by someone higher up whose name you're not getting: "PKI has sunk enough money into this ride." (TRTR) PKI builds well themed rides, but they don't like paying more money to maintain them. They only pay for what's necessary to keep the rides safe and running. How do I know Vortex needs track replacements? It's made out of metal, a material not known for it's perfection. Track does need replacing as it ages. Maybe not right now, but eventually. Jeez! They replace track on Racer and Beast, but you don't think Vortex will need the same treatment? TRTR was overrated, mainly because PKI did not make the ride long enough for what it does. Ask any guest, and they will tell you (assuming they don't hate going upsidedown) that they liked the ride, but it would have been worth the wait if the ride lasted a lot longer. And now, all of the issues have been adressed, (I didn't "avoid" any) I will now retire and wait for your reply that will, no doubt, have the direct purpose of arguing with me further over such minor details (that I never said were going to happen), and to simply say I'm wrong and I'm an idiot.

[HabloRM]

Are you sure Vortex needs replacements? What if maintance says it's ok. Plus Beast and Racer are wood and need to be replaced once and a while becasue it will rot. Steel doesn't rot there buddy.

[FamousLastWords]

So what you're saying is, at long last, humanity has created the first perfect device, one that will last forever if let be, and can not possibly show signs of age. Wow, I think PKI should start charging people just to look at this astounding object, let alone ride it. If only they had this kind of technology when they built The Bat.

Sorry in advance for this very harsh and sarcastic post, I am very tired right now, but the point had to be made.

[HabloRM]

So what you're saying is, at long last, humanity has created the first perfect device, one that will last forever if let be, and can not possibly show signs of age. Wow, I think PKI should start charging people just to look at this astounding object, let alone ride it. If only they had this kind of technology when they built The Bat.

Sorry in advance for this very harsh and sarcastic post, I am very tired right now, but the point had to be made.

I'm not saying Vortex is perfect. You just came across and said Vortex needed track replacements. Hell if it was true you might as well tear down the whole ride and rebulid.

[FamousLastWords]

That is what some people are worried about. If PKI takes Vortex down, it's going to stay down. For them, it would be better to replace it with the most modern ride they can find.

[HabloRM]

If they do tear down Vortex soon then you will have many people ****ed off, maybe more than Scooters.

[FamousLastWords]

Yes, and now my (and other people's) new fear steps in. Someone who owns the park but has never even been inside of the place and heard what people think of this coaster, makes the decision, like Eagles, that Vortex is old and it needs to go.

[SOB_TOM]

Im sure that the corporate people have been in the park.

And I figured it out Famouslastwords, the reason I pick on you the most is because of your member number: 666.

[TheKlockster]

Oh, thats wierd. I never noticed that before! I wonder who's member 69!

The rails on Vortex are hollow tubular steel. As they heat up and cool down over and over again, and the trains roll on down them, they cause distortions. So eventually, Vortex's track will become unridable. But this is still a long way off. Like someone said earlier, look at Corkscrew at CP, or better yet, Corkscrew at Silverwood Theme Park, which was relocated from KBF. The KBF corkscrew was the first inversion steel coaster in the world. It is still thrilling the folks from Cour D Alene Idaho and surrounding areas to this day! Its track is virtually identical to Vortex's track.

Of course, without maintenence, the ride would wear out much faster. But there is maintenence, so the ride will last. Its only about 16 or 17 years old - so it has a good 10 years AT LEAST left in it. Even when the time comes, 15 or 20 years down the road (assuming Paramount hasn't decided to pull Vortex for a highly themed ferris wheel or something stupid like that), the track can be retracked. They just yank out the sections that are bad, and install new sections. Thats the cool thing about steel coasters - they are modular - almost like a knex set or something!

But certain pieces wear faster than others, and I am certain that when these pieces go bad, Paramount will yank them and put in new track in those spots. They are going to milk Vortex as long as they can. Its good for the Enthusiasts, its good for the Customers, and its good for Business.

So what ride is next to go? We will just have to wait and see. But whatever ride it ends up being, lets get as much fun and memories out of it as we can before it goes. Don't loose sleep over Vortex's removal - I am sure it will provide you, and more than likely your children with years of thrills!

[BoddaH1994]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember them removing the cap piece at the top of the hill and replacing it a few days later. I don't know if it was with another piece or the same one. This was probably 5 or more years ago.

[FamousLastWords]

Does anyone else besides me think that, excluding some things in HB, there's really nothing left for PKI to tear down. We still do have some older rides (Zephyr, Monster, Scrambler), but nothing that would give the park enough room to build another ride in it's place, unless it was just as small, and this isn't likely.

[coasterrz]

I know back in 1996 or 1997 Vortex was down the day I visited and had a huge cran next to the lift. They have removed the piece of track at the very top of the lift. This was before the days when I was a season pass holder, or really into coasters so I paid little attention to it.

I do know that they have replaced track on Adventure Express. Remember the mist that used to spray right after you left the station? Well, it was removed for good reason. Apparantly, the mist caused a great deal of rust in that section of track, and they had to replace it and removed the mist to prevent the track from deteriorating. I believe that is what Shaggy claimed as the reason for the removal of the mist a couple years ago.

As with most cars, they have an average shelf life. You can keep replacing parts, but eventually, the parts get harder to find or more expensive, or so many things are failing, that it becomes cheaper just to buy a new car. The same goes for steel coasters.

[MarketingExpress]

You can NOT say AE is popular based on capacity.

So if your not going to base a ride's popularity on capacity, then what are you going to base it on?

[SOB_TOM]

Apparently the reason a ride is popular is because it is constantly talked about on this forum...

[FamousLastWords]

Capacity is the only visible way of looking at popularity, but it does not prove it. There is no way of knowing how popular something is unless you polled the whole world. To show you what I mean: Suppose that Monster is much more popular than AE (as in more people on the planet like it than AE). You're not going to prove this with capacity. Monster gets 6-7 cycles an hour at most, with a capacity of 336 at the very most (this is the biggest rarity you'll find in this park). AE, on the other hand, gets somewhere around 30 cycles an hour, probably more, with a possible capacity of around 900. Someone from AE help me out with the numbers, I know they're somewhere around here, but I don't know exactly what they are. Now, more people may want to ride Monster, but it's a slow cycling ride, and can't fit as many people on in a day that AE can. Plus, people naturally hate lines, which Monster always has, so they gravitate towards the rides with no lines, namely AE. AE doesn't have lines because it cycles so fast. (And just maybe, it's not as popular as it's capacity reflects) These last few sentenences are entirely true, as I have been discussing myself, as an example of "the people," here. Monster was my favorite ride in the park until I finally got the nerve to ride Vortex. However, back then, the line for Monster was insanely long, and even though it was my favorite ride, I would not wait in such a long line for it.

Conclusion: There is no other way to rate popularity of a ride other than it's capacity. But we should all know that this is not a perfect means of rating popularity. I have ridden AE many more times than Monster, but that was only because of the lines. I have always loved Monster more than AE.

Edit: One more reason capacity doesn't tell all the facts: Suppose someone just looked at the daily numbers for TRTR this season, and nothing else. According to the numbers, TRTR popularity dropped by 1/4 in one year. Capacity doesn't tell them that seats were closed off on the ride and therefore the ride could not fit as many people on as last year. There is always a reason for the number of riders, but when you have a ride that has the ability to give a much larger capacity than other rides, it's almost always going to give it.

[DeliriumDreamer]

Jeff has a point. There are a bunch of rides in the park that have very slow cycle times, and there would be no comparing one ride's popularity to another if we only went by hourly or even daily capacity. The answer's simple; the line's just too long. With pay-per-rides like DOT, Slingshot, and Skyflyer, however, you can measure by profit and not capacity. Because, let's face it, the most amount of cycles I could get in on SS(with the new cut-off points) this year in one hour is 13, which totals to 26 riders in one hour. If we went by capacity, SS wouldn't be anything compared to something with a larger and faster capacity, like Tower.

[stewwill]

I'm sorry, as much as I love KI...getting rid of the Eagles was not just a mistake but a stupid mistake. There are quite a few lower capacity rides in the park. I don't have to name them. There are very glaring holes on the Coney Mall where the ride could have been placed. Some rides have a sentimental attatchment for guests. KI was among the last parks to allow snapping. The Eagles was like the second oldest ride in the park. It wasn't a maintenance issue, Eagles is being moved to another park. Sheesh, it would have been cheaper to move it to Coney Mall than load it on a truck and move it to another park. Whoever made this decision was a total idiot. Why move a ride that was loved by a lot of people, to a park where the ride has no history especially when there was room in KI to move it? The ride will still be on the books, costing money to maintain. Sometimes, it seems the KI we grew up with is being purged to make it into a movie park. there is nothing wrong with well themed movie rides, but change for the better is a good thing, change for changes sake is a waste of time. Time is suppose to march on not over things or people.

StewWill

[coasterrz]

While it is sad to see the Eagles go, it was a decision Paramount Parks made, and we have to live with it, happy or not. Thhe Eagles was perhaps one of the lowest capacity adult rides in the park with the exception of maybe the Monster. There were only 10 tubs, and only about 20 people maximum could fit on the ride. Whiie I would have liked to see the Eagles fly over to the Flight Commander spot, Paramount Parks must have a grander plan for PKI, of which IJST is just the beginning. True, we may not see a new addition to Coney mall in 2006, but 2007 might mark the return of a new attraction to Coney Mall. To quote a PKI executive in an article about six years ago "Times change. The park will be different in the future, we just don`t know what shape it will take." Those aren`t his exact words, and I don`t remember his name, but that is essentially what he said.

[PKI Homey]

"Time is suppose to march on not over things or people."

Actually, often when time marches on, it marches over things. It's called progress.

Getting rid of the Eagels was far from a mistake. I rode it and was bored to tears. I'm sure IJ:ST will kick its' butt.

[pyrocoasterkid]

I have to say that I was also pretty bored with the Eagles the last time I rode them... For some people, the Eagles held a sentimental value; it was the must ride. So obviously its all a matter of opinion. If I were an out-of-towner, I'd be more likely to go to PKI because I see a roller coaster themed to Italian Job, than I would because I see the Eagles. Thats probably want PKI's execs based their decision on. I have to admit though, they could've been moved elsewhere in the park...

I know this is so unlikely to happen, but me and my brother always thought itd be cool if there was more added on to Top Gun, possibly another lift. I do love the ride, short, sweet, to the point, and probably the best Arrow suspended..IMO. But it might be better with more length...idk

I really dont see any of PKI's rides leaving anytime soon... Vortex seems to be a big one up for grabs, but id ont think they would've re-painted a few years back if they planned on getting rid of it.

[Pirate of PKI]

I think Adventure Express at the park is popular because it's a ride that kids can go on with their parents because it is smooth. When I was little it was one of the only coasters I would ride.

[HomerJay]

I think it's pretty funny to see everyone comparing a roller coaster's removal to a flat ride like Eagles or the Antique Cars. I have to drive six hours to get to PKI (I live in Detroit). When people here talk about PKI, the topic that always comes up is the one of the coasters that they have. People know Vortex, Beast, and Top Gun. Parents take family vacations for family rides like AE or Hannah Barbara Land. As much as regulars like the Antique Cars or the Scooters, that's not what brings out of towners to the park. So it's not the same thing at all. PKI would easily remove some flats because the visitors to the park (who drive up revenue around the park in the hotels and campgrounds) are coming for the thrill rides or family attractions. Most people don't recognize the flats are even missing. Heck, I've gone to PKI for nearly all of my 25 years and never once rode the Eagles and it's been a good 20 years since I rode the Antiques.

[Pirate of PKI]

I agree with you for the most part but not everyone rides roller coasters, which is why Flying Eagles and Antique Cars does drive people back. Needless to say though, roller coasters is any amusement park's biggest advantage. But flat ride removals can cause big commotions, just look at the Eagles now.

[fryler87]

Such removals cause comotions amongst enthusiasts like us. Enthusiasts like us will always keep coming back no matter what. Like said above, it's the big, flashy stuff that brings people in from out of town. That is what makes a park famous around the world; such wonders as Vortex, Beast, Son of Beast, Delirium, Tomb Raider and the like. Just look at Cedar Point. When Dragster was built, Chaos was relocated to Schwabinchen's site, which was totally removed. What is going to cause a bigger impact on business; a new record-breaking coaster, or removing an extremely old flat?

It all comes down to what makes the park more money.

[PKI Homey]

"Vortex seems to be a big one up for grabs, but i don't think they would've re-painted a few years back if they planned on getting rid of it."

If I remember correctly, someone on here or PKIC said that King Kobra was painted about 2-3 years before its' removal. So, there's just no telling.

[MarketingExpress]

AE, on the other hand, gets somewhere around 30 cycles an hour, probably more, with a possible capacity of around 900. Someone from AE help me out with the numbers, I know they're somewhere around here, but I don't know exactly what they are.

Your numbers on AE are almost 100% accurate. They put about 34 cycles out an hour. No one else is going to know more about that ride on here than me...trust me.

[stewwill]

Homey~Progress does NOT march over people or things, Progress is supposed to be for the better. Losing Eagles was not. There was roon in the park for it and the guests that rode it liked it. Just because I don't care for a ride I don't applaud it's demise because a there are people that do. Think of the good of the guests, not your own narrow likes and dislikes. There was no reason to move it to another park, same number of tubs, same maintenance costs, all being equal, there was no reason to move it. Short sighted move. Your lack of appreciation of other guests' feelings is short sighted as well.

StewWill

[SOB_TOM]

The problem is that we as enthusiasts dont like to see any rides removed. I am willing to bet that the majority of the GP just kinda shrugged and said "What a shame." Just remember that just because we loved the ride, the GP might not show the same amount of love.

[PKI Homey]

Stewwill, exactly how long have you been in this world? If you don't think progress ever marches over people or things, then you have been living in a cave. I can agree with you that progress should not do these things, but often times that is the way that it does happen. What about housing projects where poor people live and they have no other place to go, that wind up being demolished for a new parking lot? It happens, but I'm not saying it's right. I don't disrespect any other people's feelings. I have stated in several other threads that over the years, PKI has removed many other rides that were personal favorites of mine like the Rotor, Bavarian Beetle, Der Spinnin' Keggers, and many more. But, I don't waste my time petitioning for something that is a lost cause. They are not going to change their minds. Get over it. Move on or go to PC and ride them there.

[AZ Kinda Guy]

Capacity is the only concrete way of looking at popularity, but it does not prove it....

SNIP

Yep. It's official. Your an idiot.