Disney Changing Disabled Guest Policy

[Oldiesmann]

A while back several sources reported about abuse of Disney's disabled-rider program, where wealthy patrons were paying big bucks to become guests of a disabled person, thereby allowing them to dishonestly skip the lines simply because of their wealth.

Disney has now decided to change their policy relating to this, to try and curb abuse:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/disney-527365-program-brown.html

ANAHEIM – The Disneyland Resort is overhauling a program that allows visitors with disabilities to bypass regular ride lines, the culmination of a months-long effort to curb “abuse” in the system, a park official said.

Beginning Oct. 9, visitors to the resort’s two theme parks who present a Disney-issued disability card will no longer be granted immediate, back-door access to rides, a park spokeswoman said.

Instead, they’ll be issued a return time for the attraction based on its wait time – similar to the FastPass system offered to all visitors.

This of course is not going over well for obvious reasons.

Critics reacted swiftly, including local autism advocates who decried the overhaul as unaccommodating to children with autism. They launched online petitions calling on Disney to reverse course.

Mission Viejo parent Rebecca Goddard, who takes her 4- and 6-year-old sons with autism to Disney about once a week, said her sons cannot wait in lines longer than a few minutes. Both sons begin pushing and shoving other people, and speaking in increasingly loud and angry voices, Goddard said.

“My boys don’t have the cognition to understand why it’s going to be a long wait,” Goddard said. “There are so few things for my boys that bring them utter joy and happiness – to mess with it just makes me sad.”

I definitely understand why they did this, but I don't know if it's the best solution. It should help stop the abuse though, since they won't really get any more out of it than they would if they got FastPass.

[Diamondback FOF]

So guests with disabilities were previously granted immediate access?? I have no issues with the change.

[upstop]

The abusers were actually paying a handicapped person who advertised their services. I think Disney was ****ed because they weren't getting their piece of the pie.( money changing hands) hence the change.

[kiguy339]

This is also the same system King Island uses today.

Equal access.

[The Interpreter]

Equal access may not be reasonable accommodation. After all, years ago those in wheel chairs had the same access to stairs as everyone else. That didn't mean the facility owner could avoid building ramps as "those people" can use the stairs like everybody else.

No matter what Disney does here, it's on very shaky ground, either PR wise or disability accommodation wise.

[RailRider]

I think this is the right decision by Disney. They are not making folks with disabilities wait in line, but instead providing them a window to return to the ride and walk on. They eliminated immediate access, yet are still providing them fair access that is still better than what a non disabled person receives. A standard park guest even when using the Fastpass system must follow the rules and guidelines of that system and is provided a specific window for return that will constantly change. This sounds like they will have a type of Fastpass system that is dedicated for them, almost a personal reservation system. I see no issue and the true ire should be focused on individuals paying disabled guests to tag along for the day.

[MarketingExpress]

KI went through this exact same situation at the beginning of this season and they survived.

[bkroz]

The question is not if this system is fair - it very much seems to be. The question is if it's equitable. For a large percentage of guests with disabilities, receiving a return time just like a Fastpass is very much okay. Guests with autism react differently to things like that, as the OP quoted. The argument there is that individuals with ASD who lean towards the more severe end of the spectrum have a difficult time equating waiting with a reward. Their days must be very intricately structured, and those individuals benefit from knowing exactly what will happen and when. (There's, of course, an entire debate everyone is scared to have about if maybe parents and specialists - like myself - need to teach children with ASD how to wait rather than just lobbying that they can't.)

In practice, I think this system will grow into a nice, smooth groove. Dad or mom can visit any one of the seven kiosks scattered around the two parks and receive a return time - the individual with a disability does not have to accompany them to the kiosk. So while dad is running off to get a return time from his nearest kiosk, mom and child can ride another attraction or stop for a snack. My understanding, too, is that rides that doesn't have long lines (I'd imagine 15 minutes or less) will still be granted instant access to the Fastpass line (or through the exit, depending on mobility issues), so they still step right on to a lot of the park's attractions.

[The Interpreter]

Right. Fair OR equitable has NOTHING to do with ADA. The relevant question is whether a reasonable accommodation is being made. And the nature of the disability is a relevant factor in that determination.

[Oldiesmann]

According to Orlando TV station WKMG:

Sources told Local 6 Disney worked closely with disabled groups like Autism Speaks to try to make the change easy for everyone.

See http://www.clickorlando.com/news/walt-disney-world-changes-disability-policies/-/1637132/22070288/-/1s1bsv/-/index.html for the complete article. Also see http://www.clickorlando.com/news/new-disney-disability-rule-goes-into-effect/-/1637132/22347520/-/3e8myk/-/index.html for more info on the program.

[bkroz]

Right. Fair OR equitable has NOTHING to do with ADA. The relevant question is whether a reasonable accommodation is being made. And the nature of the disability is a relevant factor in that determination.

As we're taught, time and time again, parents lobby for their children to get the absolute best, premium services and want every single service that's out there for their child (as they should!) but that's not what the law says or what schools / businesses are responsible for providing. If a Ford Fusion will get you there, they have no responsibility to give you a Cadillac. Not legally.

EDIT: My earlier comment about equity was based on the notion that historically, Disney has done far more than what's just required by law, and they have provided a "Cadillac" service. My impression would but that they're continuing to be equitable as opposed to doing the legal bare minimum, and that this continues to be an equitable service from a moral point of view. That doesn't stop comments from appearing on all of Walt Disney World's Facebook posts from parents who just have to say again and again what a shame it is that they'll never be able to come back. We'll see!

[TTD-120-420]

My understanding, too, is that rides that doesn't have long lines (I'd imagine 15 minutes or less) will still be granted instant access to the Fastpass line (or through the exit, depending on mobility issues), so they still step right on to a lot of the park's attractions.

This is what it is at Busch Gardens.

My question is, how often are Disney rides under 15 minutes? My guess is not often, but I've never been there.

[shark6495]

The question is not if this system is fair - it very much seems to be. The question is if it's equitable. For a large percentage of guests with disabilities, receiving a return time just like a Fastpass is very much okay. Guests with autism react differently to things like that, as the OP quoted. The argument there is that individuals with ASD who lean towards the more severe end of the spectrum have a difficult time equating waiting with a reward. Their days must be very intricately structured, and those individuals benefit from knowing exactly what will happen and when. (There's, of course, an entire debate everyone is scared to have about if maybe parents and specialists - like myself - need to teach children with ASD how to wait rather than just lobbying that they can't.)

In practice, I think this system will grow into a nice, smooth groove. Dad or mom can visit any one of the seven kiosks scattered around the two parks and receive a return time - the individual with a disability does not have to accompany them to the kiosk. So while dad is running off to get a return time from his nearest kiosk, mom and child can ride another attraction or stop for a snack. My understanding, too, is that rides that doesn't have long lines (I'd imagine 15 minutes or less) will still be granted instant access to the Fastpass line (or through the exit, depending on mobility issues), so they still step right on to a lot of the park's attractions.

I am sorry, what is your specialty? I am an SLP, and I agree with your question of if we can teach children with ASD to wait or not. Also, your description of children with ASD not relating waiting with a reward is spot on. The severe ASD children I work with do not (and so far have not been able to) understand the concept of waiting. They do however understand working towards something. If I work on 3 projects then I get a reward, etc. Interesting question...

[bkroz]

The question is not if this system is fair - it very much seems to be. The question is if it's equitable. For a large percentage of guests with disabilities, receiving a return time just like a Fastpass is very much okay. Guests with autism react differently to things like that, as the OP quoted. The argument there is that individuals with ASD who lean towards the more severe end of the spectrum have a difficult time equating waiting with a reward. Their days must be very intricately structured, and those individuals benefit from knowing exactly what will happen and when. (There's, of course, an entire debate everyone is scared to have about if maybe parents and specialists - like myself - need to teach children with ASD how to wait rather than just lobbying that they can't.)

In practice, I think this system will grow into a nice, smooth groove. Dad or mom can visit any one of the seven kiosks scattered around the two parks and receive a return time - the individual with a disability does not have to accompany them to the kiosk. So while dad is running off to get a return time from his nearest kiosk, mom and child can ride another attraction or stop for a snack. My understanding, too, is that rides that doesn't have long lines (I'd imagine 15 minutes or less) will still be granted instant access to the Fastpass line (or through the exit, depending on mobility issues), so they still step right on to a lot of the park's attractions.

I am sorry, what is your specialty? I am an SLP, and I agree with your question of if we can teach children with ASD to wait or not. Also, your description of children with ASD not relating waiting with a reward is spot on. The severe ASD children I work with do not (and so far have not been able to) understand the concept of waiting. They do however understand working towards something. If I work on 3 projects then I get a reward, etc. Interesting question...

I'm licensed K - 12 Intervention Specialist, focus on mild-moderate disabilities. It's a dicey topic no matter which angle you approach it from, but our occupations give us a unique perspective, and maybe a unique challenge.

[upstop]

Let's just go back to ticketed attractions....everyone gets one and has to wait....problem solved.

[shark6495]

The question is not if this system is fair - it very much seems to be. The question is if it's equitable. For a large percentage of guests with disabilities, receiving a return time just like a Fastpass is very much okay. Guests with autism react differently to things like that, as the OP quoted. The argument there is that individuals with ASD who lean towards the more severe end of the spectrum have a difficult time equating waiting with a reward. Their days must be very intricately structured, and those individuals benefit from knowing exactly what will happen and when. (There's, of course, an entire debate everyone is scared to have about if maybe parents and specialists - like myself - need to teach children with ASD how to wait rather than just lobbying that they can't.)

In practice, I think this system will grow into a nice, smooth groove. Dad or mom can visit any one of the seven kiosks scattered around the two parks and receive a return time - the individual with a disability does not have to accompany them to the kiosk. So while dad is running off to get a return time from his nearest kiosk, mom and child can ride another attraction or stop for a snack. My understanding, too, is that rides that doesn't have long lines (I'd imagine 15 minutes or less) will still be granted instant access to the Fastpass line (or through the exit, depending on mobility issues), so they still step right on to a lot of the park's attractions.

I am sorry, what is your specialty? I am an SLP, and I agree with your question of if we can teach children with ASD to wait or not. Also, your description of children with ASD not relating waiting with a reward is spot on. The severe ASD children I work with do not (and so far have not been able to) understand the concept of waiting. They do however understand working towards something. If I work on 3 projects then I get a reward, etc. Interesting question...

I'm licensed K - 12 Intervention Specialist, focus on mild-moderate disabilities. It's a dicey topic no matter which angle you approach it from, but our occupations give us a unique perspective, and maybe a unique challenge.

Just to be clear the I am sorry what is your specialty comment was suppose to read I am sorry I forgot or dont know what you do, what is your specialty.

It is a unique challenge but I work with about 8 severe non-verbal students with ASD and they are my favorites. Our school tried to not invite the Autism unit to the class field trip to Kings Island. Lets say that there were a few people very very very upset about that...

[The Interpreter]

KI went through this exact same situation at the beginning of this season and they survived.

So far. There is usually a time lag between a perceived or actual grievance and the resulting petition for redress.

Terp, porpoisely being a bit obtuse.

[bkroz]

Disney is being sued for the changes to its disability access system.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/disney-608785-guests-policy.html

To summarize this thread:

Last year, both American resorts switched their accessibility programs following much-publicized abuse of the previous system. In the old Guest Assisstance Card (GAC) policy, almost any guest could obtain a GAC by visiting Guest Relations and mentioning something as simple as discomfort standing for long periods of time. The cards were issued for months at a time and good for parties of up to six guests. Anyone with a GAC could enter directly through an accessible entrance and board the ride, usually immediately, with no wait. The system was infamous for abuse, especially when it was uncovered that wealthy families were hiring "disabled" tour guides (some legitimate and some otherwise) for hundreds of dollars an hour to pose as their family and whisk them to the front of the line for immediate boarding unlimited times on every attraction in the park.

The new Disability Access Service (DAS) is more restrictive in terms of who can have one, how long it's valid, and who can accompany the individual with a disability through the special queue. What's more, the DAS service works like Cedar Fair's disability pass: the individual or a member of his or her party must visit any of a half-dozen kiosks throughout each park to obtain a return time for the attraction. In other words, it's more of a virtual queue. If the line for Indiana Jones Adventure is 60 minutes, the cast member at the kiosk will write in a return time of 60 minutes from now (usually less a percentage due to the minimal time it takes to get to a kiosk). Groups can use the Fastpass system, too.

Now, 16 families with children with autism are suing Disney, saying that the new system violates the Americans with Disabilities Act.

“It does (violate the law), because the new system doesn’t provide an individualized assessment,” said Eugene Feldman, one of two lawyers representing the plaintiffs, who are not named in the lawsuit to protect the children’s privacy.

Disney officials say they do assist visitors, depending on their specific needs.

“Our Disability Access Service is designed for guests who, due to certain disabilities, cannot tolerate extended wait times at attractions,” Disney said in a statement. “In circumstances where the service might not meet guests’ needs, we work individually with guests to ensure we are able to accommodate them.”

It's mostly the families of individuals with autism who speak out against the new system, saying they'll never be able to take their children to Disneyland again.

(As a special education teacher, I have my own opinion. Junior and his family can go enjoy some attractions that don't have waits while mom slips away to a nearby kiosk for a return time. We're doing no favors to individuals with autism if we say "They need immediate and constant gratification or else we can't do things. My child cannot be taught to defer pleasure. If he sees Space Mountain, he must go on it immediately. If he can't, then we'll just have to never go to Disneyland [/ leave the house] ever again." That's a tremendous disservice to the child. Is it easy? No. Will breakdowns occur? Certainly. But life is going to require deferred gratification. Disney isn't asking the child to walk up to the attraction, the back away from it. Simply to obtain a return time from a small kiosk.)

[RailRider]

^

Well put. I think Disney made the best changes possible to the system. Also knowing a few families with Autistic children, sometimes they cannot handle large amounts of people. Should Disney shut the park down for these individuals to make specific accommodations? I think Disney has made very reasonable accommodations for individuals with disabilities, but I guess the legal system will decide that.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

My understanding, too, is that rides that doesn't have long lines (I'd imagine 15 minutes or less) will still be granted instant access to the Fastpass line (or through the exit, depending on mobility issues), so they still step right on to a lot of the park's attractions.

This is what it is at Busch Gardens.

My question is, how often are Disney rides under 15 minutes? My guess is not often, but I've never been there.

You will be surprised how short lines are during the slower days at the parks.

Also remember a slow day at a Disney Park is a busy day at Kings Island.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4 Active using Tapatalk

[shark6495]

It's mostly the families of individuals with autism who speak out against the new system, saying they'll never be able to take their children to Disneyland again.

(As a special education teacher, I have my own opinion. Junior and his family can go enjoy some attractions that don't have waits while mom slips away to a nearby kiosk for a return time. We're doing no favors to individuals with autism if we say "They need immediate and constant gratification or else we can't do things. My child cannot be taught to defer pleasure. If he sees Space Mountain, he must go on it immediately. If he can't, then we'll just have to never go to Disneyland [/ leave the house] ever again." That's a tremendous disservice to the child. Is it easy? No. Will breakdowns occur? Certainly. But life is going to require deferred gratification. Disney isn't asking the child to walk up to the attraction, the back away from it. Simply to obtain a return time from a small kiosk.)

I to am a special education teacher (SLP) working mostly with students in the MD realm and severe autism. A schedule is what works best for these children. Just like you have a visual schedule in your classroom and a what am I working for chart, it sets clear boundaries for the child.

I have a tendency to agree with these parents. It should be set up on a per person basis. For a person suffering heat/sun/physical issues this system is great. For children/adults who have difficulty understanding wait or waiting time, etc. then this is a nightmare for all involved. Not saying give immediate gratification to the children/adults with autism, but why couldnt a special pass be created with times written in by the park.

For example:

Kiddo and his family arrive at park at noon. Kiddo has already created or creates with the park a list of the rides (in which order) he/she wants to go to. The list is taken to a cast member and the cast member sits down and looks over the virtual que for each ride. (yes it would be skewed because it could change, but something is better than nothing). The cast member notes that the child has 5 rides in a certain order.

Ride 1 has a 20 minute wait, Ride 2 has an hour, Ride 3 is 45 minutes, Ride 4 is 10 minutes, Ride 5 is 2 hours.

Cast member, child/adult, create the following "Disney Schedule"

Ride 1: 12:30

Ride 2: 1:30

Ride 3: 2:15

Ride 4: 2:45

Food/Show break of child/adults choice

Ride 5: 5pm

Now you have a visual schedule for the kiddo. The kid can look forward to which rides etc. You can then go to guest services to create a new schedule or at earlier meeting you created a longer schedule.

Just my two cents...

[Oldiesmann]

I really feel sorry for the people who are in the position of making these decisions. While the "allow scheduling of rides/attractions" option will fix the issue that the new system causes for guests with certain disabilities, it's a very risky option. At that point you're either having to take a guest's word for it (which puts us back at the possibility for abuse, albeit a less appealing for those who were causing the problems), or leaving it up to unqualified employees to decide what option is best for each guest's situation (which will undoubtedly cause many additional problems, especially in today's overly-sensitive society where accidentally offending someone could lead to an expensive lawsuit).

It will be interesting to see how Disney and the courts choose to handle this.

[bkroz]

How this could be "violating the Americans with Disabilities Act," I couldn't even fathom a guess. It's not as though I know the law by heart, but c'mon now. Businesses are required not just to make reasonable accommodation, but to "provide an individualized assessment?" In education, certainly. But for a business - whether mom 'n' pop shop or international top ten company, because it can't be one or the other - to be required to make individual assessment of its customers who have freely chosen to spend their money there?

So a parent can march into any local store and demand that their child's SPECIFIC disabilities be assessed, met, and catered to by that business or risk a lawsuit?

My guess is that, unfortunately, Disney will settle with these families rather than risk bringing this to still more national attention or to change their policy, which is now working just fine for most guests. And let's face it - offered a few million from Disney, these families will go silent very happily and endure the supposed atrocities of this policy.

[Oldiesmann]

These people are also forgetting the trouble that would certainly be caused if these businesses took it upon themselves to assess someone's disabilities - especially if the person doing the assessment was not qualified to make such decisions.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

[RailRider]

Update, the plaintiffs must file separately. No longer under the same case.

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/disney-autistic-kids-lawsuit-expands-234437924.html

[jcgoble3]

Disney has won the first lawsuit via summary judgment:

 

http://deadline.com/2016/04/disney-wins-autistic-kids-lawsuit-discrimination-americans-with-disabilities-act-1201746416/

 

“The Clerk is directed to enter judgment providing that Plaintiff shall recover nothing on his claims and that Defendant shall recover costs from Plaintiff,” U.S. District Judge Anne Conway ordered on Thursday, granting Disney’s motion for summary judgment and closing plaintiffs A.L. and D.L.’s case.

 

“Plaintiff was given an opportunity to experience Magic Kingdom in a similar manner as guests that do not need accommodations,” said the Orlando-based Conway today (read it here). “Nondisabled guests visit Magic Kingdom for rides and attractions that most of them have to wait more than an hour to experience,” the Sunshine State-based judge added. “Comparing this to Plaintiff’s experience, DAS (Disability Access Service) and readmission passes allow him access to those same rides in a fraction of the time.” Giving Disney points, Conway concluded, “thus, DAS and readmission passes afford Plaintiff a similar, or better, experience as those not needing them.”

[shark6495]

The question is not if this system is fair - it very much seems to be. The question is if it's equitable. For a large percentage of guests with disabilities, receiving a return time just like a Fastpass is very much okay. Guests with autism react differently to things like that, as the OP quoted. The argument there is that individuals with ASD who lean towards the more severe end of the spectrum have a difficult time equating waiting with a reward. Their days must be very intricately structured, and those individuals benefit from knowing exactly what will happen and when. (There's, of course, an entire debate everyone is scared to have about if maybe parents and specialists - like myself - need to teach children with ASD how to wait rather than just lobbying that they can't.

The hard part about teaching kids with autism to wait is that some don't have the ability to recognize time. So 1 min feels the same 1 hour. That's why timers and such work for them. So teaching kids to wait can be done if given some sort of physical piece showing the countdown.

[Gabe]

 

Disney has won the first lawsuit via summary judgment:

 

http://deadline.com/2016/04/disney-wins-autistic-kids-lawsuit-discrimination-americans-with-disabilities-act-1201746416/

 

 

 

“The Clerk is directed to enter judgment providing that Plaintiff shall recover nothing on his claims and that Defendant shall recover costs from Plaintiff,” U.S. District Judge Anne Conway ordered on Thursday, granting Disney’s motion for summary judgment and closing plaintiffs A.L. and D.L.’s case.

 

“Plaintiff was given an opportunity to experience Magic Kingdom in a similar manner as guests that do not need accommodations,” said the Orlando-based Conway today (read it here). “Nondisabled guests visit Magic Kingdom for rides and attractions that most of them have to wait more than an hour to experience,” the Sunshine State-based judge added. “Comparing this to Plaintiff’s experience, DAS (Disability Access Service) and readmission passes allow him access to those same rides in a fraction of the time.” Giving Disney points, Conway concluded, “thus, DAS and readmission passes afford Plaintiff a similar, or better, experience as those not needing them.”

 

Disney hasn't "won" anything yet.  It won't until the 11th Circuit COA (and, if and until  a rehearing is denied and/or SCOTUS denies cert, if cert is sought) either affirms or denies the ruling on appeal.  If the ruling is reversed, the case would be remanded back for trial.