Documentary concerning Seaworld ("Blackfish")

[faeriewench]

Orcas do get bored. No Doubt. But you cant just take these whales and release them. But how cool would it be to visit a Sea World park that has a huge open water pen. You can view Orcas there. That would be cool. Zoos have done similar changes. Look at the reptile building at the Cincy Zoo. It was the former Ape house. We learn and change as a society.

One of the problems with that is keeping the orcas from getting into things they should not (besides bacteria of course that can make them sick), especially so if we are talking a more natural environment. A Japanese facility has tried something similar at the Taiji Whale Museum. Nami, who lived there for a long time, used to eat the rocks, and orcas in the wild DO take in rocks. There are necropsy reports to prove just that on what they eat and things like rocks and random junk we throw in the water just remain in their bodies. They are animals, and curious ones at that and nothing stops them from trying to eat anything in sight. Which is why the shows tend to be important.

The health and safety risks kind of outweigh the benefits of such a thing. Cetaceans hide illness very, very well, so once they show any signs of being sick (often in the form of loss of appetite) it is too late to save them.

[shark6495]

I really hope to believe that one day we would be able to find a way to make a viewing habitat for sea animals as big as whales and sharks to be more realistic than what we currently have.

[Tanna]

I really hope to believe that one day we would be able to find a way to make a viewing habitat for sea animals as big as whales and sharks to be more realistic than what we currently have.

And that is my activist goal. Not so much realistic, because I don't want a whale watching tour in the tank with them, but better suited to the animals. Faeriewitch wishes for more room for the dolphins. This should be possible with investments from average joes.

It's going to take some time to save money, bacause I wish to put money into the park. There's a lot of things I'd like to do there, and they are added perk attractions. Who would not want to nosh in a restaurant surrounded by sharks?

If KI can invest in Banshee due to revenue raised by Oiumet's ideas, higher attendance and patrons buying perks at Seaworld can open the gate to fancier animal amenities. There seems to be tons of perks in that park.

There's only one of me, I'd be going with that man I married, but imagine a steady streaming army of us, investing our vacation dough in dolphin tanks. This can be done.

Plus, one can donate to the conservation program any old time.

I understand it's oxymoronic to enter contests if this is my goal, but really, I don't want plane tickets to eat my wallet. I want to use my money on different things once I get there.

Some former trainers expressed disappointment that money went to Manta, and not towards better things for the animals. The rides get people in the park. The tickets sales add up to better things in the long run.

(I just now realized that many people might confuse their spiritual/emotional awe of their contact with these orcas with the animals themselves- does that make sense? Looking at comments of articles, and I do so to gauge the populace, I'm seeing that many people are referring to orcas as spiritual, higher evolved beings, or worse, their 'spirit guide'.

In my dreams, when the dream turns into a nightmare, a white alligator shows up and says, 'it's just a dream, wake up'. This does not mean that albino alligators have a certain spiritual attachment to me, it's that I'm using an odd symbol to snap out of it.)

Faeriewitch, these orcas are sounding more and more like giant aquatic Scotties. It's funny how some of their behaviors mirror my dog. Not only is it aggravating that they hide pain, (my dog had a broken tooth for a month, and we had to find out about it through a vet) but the toy issue and the 'Don't Wanna' attitude on certain days are killing me with the similarities.

It doesn't help that he rests his head on the edge of my chair when he wants a snack.

[The Interpreter]

Who would not want to eat in a restaurant surrounded by sharks?

Me.

I've been to New York, New Jersey and even to tracks.

No, thanks.

Especially not while eating a nice piece of fish.

[Tanna]

Okay,

"Who would not want to press their faces against glass while a beluga whale is pressing their face against the glass on the other side?"

"Who would not want to see an orca play with a giant Frisbee?"

It's a long whowouldnot list.

It's apparent to me that two of us in this topic have completely forgotten about Seaworld.

"Who would not like to see a better advertising campaign?"

Especially in the Midwestern states during winter.

I recall ads when I was younger, but there was a Seaworld in Ohio. I had asked my dad about going once, and he shrugged it off. In retrospect, I realize that a factory wireman with three kids probably couldn't afford the venture. We only got to DisneyWorld because he worked on Tom Sawyer Island.

He loved the Kings Island dolphins, though. His favorite trick was the dolphin shaking its' head at smaller fish, and nodding vigorously when the trainer asked if it wanted the bucket of fish.

[shark6495]

Yea I am surprised there is not more of a good will campaign going on nationally right now by Sea World. The documentary is well done and can be considered darning to a degree.

If I was in charge of Sea World marketing (and I was not a marketing person, I am only familiar with TV/Radio and work in special ed, so I may not know all of the little things that make marketing work) I would be filling the air with good will ads. Showing what good things Sea World has done (animal rehab). I would follow this up with a large announcement about wanting to create an endowment to offer yearly scholarships to high school students who want to become a marine biologist (wanting to create an endowment where private sector and individuals can donate). This endowment could also be used instead for rescuing animals from questionable marine parks world wide. I would then have my CEO or another higher-up talking to the morning shows at the San Diego or Orlando parks. Talking about how its not safe for these animals just to be released to the wild (since they dont have the skills and the wild pods would attack them). Admitting that in the 60s/70s the way they culled animals was wrong but now Sea World purchases orcas from these other parks. Maybe have Matt Lauer pet one of the Orcas.

I would follow this all up with a massive campaign where we try to capture the attention of the young children and get them to come to visit a Sea World. Maybe produce a 60 minute special that can be watched online or on Netflix.

This of course would have all followed the initial response would have been the CEO reading a prepared statement (similar to the one posted on their website) with the Orca pool behind him.

Not to mention, having the twitter accounts active again for the park would be a good start.

EDIT

I just went to the Sea World Website. now they have a site up http://www.seaworld.com/truth

Links about a few questions I had on the social structures.

http://seaworld.com/en/truth/killer-whales/family/

TBH its nice to see this website up but my upper suggestions still would make sense.

[Tanna]

If you go to the Seaworld website, watch out for the webcams- You'll get sucked into a watery time hole where turtles float by you, a living screen saver.

The Shamu cam is down right now, but I think that's the tank they are working maintenance on, I'm not sure.

I'd like to see some commercials where we see some rehab, too. Commercials at all would be nice. I don't know if they just don't run them in Ohio, due to cost vs. actual return, or what. Maybe I'm just not watching TV when they come on. I rarely watch TV anymore at all. I see commercials of Jack Hannah's Wild Countdown on Youtube all the time.

I think they are doing all they can do, without making them seem desperate. It would be worse to kowtow to the noisemakers, because then the controlC/ControlV crowd feels like they are winning.

I suspect the truth will have to win out in this case. More people are seeing the duplicity in the film, and Seaworld, from what I know, has always advanced themselves in taking care of their animals.

Of course, I'm going to like an article that agrees with me.

http://www.examiner.com/article/why-i-supported-seaworld-orlando-even-before-the-blackfish-backlash

[faeriewench]

If you go to the Seaworld website, watch out for the webcams- You'll get sucked into a watery time hole where turtles float by you, a living screen saver.

The Shamu cam is down right now, but I think that's the tank they are working maintenance on, I'm not sure.

I'd like to see some commercials where we see some rehab, too. Commercials at all would be nice. I don't know if they just don't run them in Ohio, due to cost vs. actual return, or what. Maybe I'm just not watching TV when they come on. I rarely watch TV anymore at all. I see commercials of Jack Hannah's Wild Countdown on Youtube all the time.

I think they are doing all they can do, without making them seem desperate. It would be worse to kowtow to the noisemakers, because then the controlC/ControlV crowd feels like they are winning.

I suspect the truth will have to win out in this case. More people are seeing the duplicity in the film, and Seaworld, from what I know, has always advanced themselves in taking care of their animals.

Of course, I'm going to like an article that agrees with me.

http://www.examiner.com/article/why-i-supported-seaworld-orlando-even-before-the-blackfish-backlash

The Shamucam was done away with in 2012 (or 2011 don't remember just that it was long before Blackfish). The anti captivity folks would pretty much just sit on there all hours of the day and posting the crappy blue pixelated shots of how the animals are abused, it was extremely annoying and it did get old. All park cams are actually set up at the San Diego park (including the former shamu cam) and the Shamucam actually seen better days, as the camera itself had aged and the quality was horrendous compared to the turtle cam which is much newer. (I used to watch Shamu cam for fun all the way back in 2000 and 2001 to give an idea). I still have some of the screenshots I took of it on my old hard drive it was fun to do when I didn't feel like doing my homework....and now I have homework again, lol.

[Tanna]

Bum deal. At least now I know why the cameras aren't working. There's always YouTube.

I'm doing the same thing, watching penguins on work breaks, except one penguin is playing censor and is sitting right in front of the camera, so it's not penguincam, it's penguinbuttcam.

The activists should just be honest and come out and say: "If it makes anyone happy, we hate it."

And to be honest, I've never met a happy activist.

[jcgoble3]

I'm doing the same thing, watching penguins on work breaks, except one penguin is playing censor and is sitting right in front of the camera, so it's not penguincam, it's penguinbuttcam.

I laughed way too hard at this!

[TTD-120-420]

Sigh...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tanyachen/facts-you-should-know-about-orca-captivity

[Tanna]

I'm doing the same thing, watching penguins on work breaks, except one penguin is playing censor and is sitting right in front of the camera, so it's not penguincam, it's penguinbuttcam.

I laughed way too hard at this!

Now there's two of them talking to each other like Dave and Frank from 2001. I think they are trying to shut me down.

.

[faeriewench]

Sigh...

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tanyachen/facts-you-should-know-about-orca-captivity

Water pressure from swimming rapidly across long distances is what keeps the fins on wild orcas straight. Dorsal fin collapse is found on almost all quarantined whales who are confined to a relatively small pool and spend a lot of time above water. Other possible causes of the fin collapse is a change in diet as well as above normal exposure to air.

Guess the wild orcas with flopped dorsal fins are figments of our imaginations. Yes there are flopped dorsal fins out there, more and more been spotted over the last several years its actually not completely uncommon.

I often feel really feel bad for the wild orcas with the injured dorsal fins, there are a handful who do not even have a dorsal because it was sliced off by boat propellers or other man made objects.

This a family friendly site so I'll post that picture ^ since it is a healed one. There are some really graphic ones when the injury was more fresh.

[faeriewench]

Dawn's family released a statement. I feel bad for the family, it's been rough. Dawn would probably be rolling around in her grave with everything going on.

http://dawnsfoundation.org/share-your-stories/images/dawn-brancheaus-family-statement-about-blackfish

[The Interpreter]

That deserves a very careful reading.

God bless them.

[rcwizard13]

The first two sentences of that last paragraph actually make me quite sad.

[Tanna]

it's a very good letter, very strong. I appreciate the Foundation saying something, though I wish they didn't have to do so.

It seems as if her tragedy was used to get people to see the film.

I wonder how well the former trainers in the film knew her.

People forget that when the movie "Namu" was filmed, killer whales were considered something of a dangerous nuisance, like coyotes. That's why the movie placed an emphasis on not shooting them. Some orcas had bulletholes in their fins. Fishermen didn't like them. That was only fifty years ago.

Seaworld did change that. Since the definition of 'ironic' has been so muddled by popular culture, I don't know if I could honestly use the word in relation to the fact that the love the activists have for these animals mostly stems from seeing them at a park. Would activists be so concerned if the orcas were still known as the 'wolves of the sea'?

TTD, I wouldn't worry too much about Buzzfeed- there's a running joke on the internet about replicating the articles without the many pictures that BF includes, photos mostly taken from the net. Just read the words sometime without the pictures, and see what I mean. It's rocket surgery.

The 'Cracked' site, however does actually have people that use keyboards and brains.

http://www.cracked.com/funny-6000-whale-watching/

[shark6495]

The first two sentences of that last paragraph actually make me quite sad.

Since Dawn’s death nearly four years ago, the media has focused mainly on the whales. A human life was lost that day and it feels as though some believe her death was just a footnote. Dawn's death is central to our story. In 2010, we created the Dawn Brancheau Foundation in her honor to continue the legacy of the work important to Dawn during her life.

[Tanna]

OSHA is now investigating Lara Padgett, the OSHA employee that investigated Seaworld.

Article available on Micechat.com. Sorry for no link, there were limited options.

[faeriewench]

I don't think any of them trainers knew Dawn well. Dawn first started with the orcas around the time they were fired (or "quit"). Ventre claimed he was fired for kissing Taima's tongue when in actuality he was let go for not just kissing her tongue but shoving his head into her mouth. Taima was a real temperamental girl at times, big no-no and safety issue. Hargrove left because he didn't want to work with other animals after he got booted from Shamu Stadium for breaking safety rules constantly. That was one thing I loved about Dawn, she loved ALL animals and was content working with any of them. Before she was at SeaWorld she was a Six Flags employee working with dolphins even. Orcas are not the only animals in the world.

it's a very good letter, very strong. I appreciate the Foundation saying something, though I wish they didn't have to do so.

It seems as if her tragedy was used to get people to see the film.

I get the feeling Dawn's family was pestered to the point of saying something, which is wrong on so many levels as far as I am concerned.

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

I would never go there.

[Tanna]

I would never go there.

Would you ever own a dog or a house cat?

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

I would never go there.

Would you ever own a dog or a house cat?

Where are you going with this?

[Tanna]

Would you tailer your resonse to my reponse if I told you? I'd rather you not. I'd rather have honesty.

The whales at Seaworld are hybrid. We can't undo the history of Seaworld, a history that occurred in a different cultural mindset. Most of these whales have never been in the ocean.

We don't know if they would survive. As of now, these animals are cared for and fed by the dollars collected in ticket sales to the park. So far, the only hunting I've seen is that some of the whales bait a bird with a fish, then eat it. Their survival depends on revenue from park goers.

I suspect the makeup of these whales' means of survival are different. It only takes a minute to find video on YouTube of a whale teaching her calf show tricks. This is a new whale, neither Transient nor Resident- like it or not, it's a Seaworld whale.

Keiko was freed, and spent the rest of his short days, until he died of pneumonia, seeking human company.

Imagine thirty freed whales at a boat dock, with all of that oil and active propellers, seeking company. I suspect that many would suffer the same fate as Luna.

In the movie Blackfish, former trainers took issue with the care of Tillikum at the Canadian marine park, Sea Land.

Sea Land didn't have a lot of money to care for their whales.

By boycotting Seaworld, we risk the potential of the whales receiving less care.

I own a Scottish Terrier. He's never been in the wild his entire life. I once had to leave him at a kennel for six months while I built a pit bull regulation fence (the fence took a lot of money and effort to comply with standards), the kennel employees wondered why he was hesitant to go outside without them. My dog has never been outside the house without us, due to the amount of fighting dogs in our area. Without the fence, and without our armed protection, he would be dead. He's a domesticated breed.

Would you refuse to hire me because you don't like the idea of my dog not running wild with wolves? If I set my dog out on the Scottish Highlands, would he survive? Only if he set his sights on the houselights in the distance, looking for owners. He wouldn't survive with the Scottish strain of terriers. The Scottish Terrier in Scotland can be vicious, even to it's own kind.

As you've probably read the whole thread, you've seen my thoughts on the ALF, that freeing these whales is one small possibly obtainable goal towards freeing all animals. We are talking PETA, who likely will not stop at whales.

Right now, I feel the need to apologize to all the literally butthurt Miami University dorm students. I'm the one that campaigned for recycled paper to be used throughout the college, and that means the toilet paper, too. Yeh, I knew it was rough, but to be honest, I lived in an apartment at time, and bought my own Charmin, and rationalized it as, "It'll help you realize how important it is to get out on your own and buy nice TP."

Because I, too, am somewhat of an activist. I understand my own kind.

When it comes to causes, it's like Lay's potato chips, we never stop at just one.

[faeriewench]

I tend to ignore people who say they don't want to go to SeaWorld, it is their choice. However it drives me nuts while they say they won't go to SeaWorld they got no problems going to Busch Gardens. Well...like it or not you indirectly just gave SeaWorld your money by doing the Busch Gardens parks is what I would often say. Hypocrites.

If people are as against SeaWorld as they claim to be then stay away from Busch Gardens.

[faeriewench]

I remember when this happened really well, and it reiterates my feelings about the dolphin pools there. Bottlenose dolphins can and will bite without warning, but there are certain individuals in the Dolphin Cove pool that are quite known to be mouthy, mostly due to the fact they been teased so much by the patrons. The dolphin in this incident, if I'm not mistaken, is one of them mouthy ones, more than likely he was lunging for the tray in the girls hand rather than the girl herself. If I remember the old "Dolphin Community Pool" feedings right, they were free-for-all in comparison, very crowded, not as well supervised so you had patrons taunting and teasing the animals . I very much prefer structured supervised feedings with trainers present, really for the safety of the animals.

My other issue with the dolphins there apart from the tanks is the image of these guys SeaWorld promotes. At SeaWorld, people get the idea that bottlenose dolphins are these friendly magical creatures that fart rainbows and possess healing powers to cure sick children and it is OK to approach them in the wild. Very little is mentioned about what they are actually like. The Japanese Aquariums (well the good ones like Port and Kamogawa Sea World) have no problems with being blunt with their patrons telling them exactly what the dolphins are capable of. Having seen bottlenose dolphins both in the wild and captivity, in short, they are bullies, probably more so than their orca cousins. Highly intelligent, yes, I've seen these stinkers work at trying to sneak fish behind the trainers' backs before: http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt109/kifaeriewench/Image1.jpg

I've seen many videos on YouTube of some random people going up to wild animals (dolphins and seals/sealions) and poking them to the point they are nearly bitten (or potentially killed). One video that stands out in my mind is this guy continuously approaching a seal sunning himself on a beach (not just any seal...a BULL) and slapping him while giggling like a little school girl. Takes off running the moment the seal gets up slightly and goes right back to slapping him as soon as the seal laid back down. He should been lucky that was not a Elephant seal bull, he (the seal I mean) would have torn him up.It is videos like that that make me want to backhand people. I know SeaWorld is not intentionally teaching people to approach the animals in their natural habitat, but the show Blue Horizons has no educational value (shoot....almost half the show don't even show the dolphins...it is of the acrobats) I would not have any issues if they went back to the direction of old shows like "Dolphin Discovery" and such. That's why I am glad SeaWorld done away with Believe, One Ocean is a much better show, but not as good as Shamu Story. But taking away the shows is the worst thing anyone can do.

[jcgoble3]

The Onion chimes in:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nation-back-on-board-with-seaworld-following-aweso,35027/

[Tanna]

Jcgoble,

That was me even during the movie.

In one news article, and yes, I read the comments, which are dying down, not so many people just pasting the word "Blackfish" either, one woman proclaims she is protesting because her fifth grade class was asked to leave, because they fed their lunch to the whales.

What a strange vendetta, and she's now an adult and still doesn't understand what she did wrong.

The comments!!!11 are dying down, which means the topic is no longer as hot as the filmmakers would like. Did they think it was going to maintain the steam of a TV show that runs weekly? The sheep have gone onto hating Justin Beeber, whales are old news now. It didn't get an Oscar nomination, it's not worth chatting about over Starbucks.

Worse, the more people point out the fallacies, the more gullible the !!!111 crowd looks. No one wants to look a fool over latte.

The film makers want a debate with Seaworld, which is only a ploy to gain some of the lost momentum. Seaworld has not only answered all of their allegations, but it would cheapen Seaworld to give these people the time. Besides, I can only imagine the 'debate' would quickly fall apart with the spoiled child screaming from the emotional film debate team.

Where the comments against are waning, Seaworld keeps posting on the conservation and rescue blog, and people are still reading and liking. People who liked the park will still go, and the people that say they will never go to the park again probably went on their parents' dime when they did go, and they are too stingy to pay for themselves. They were never going to go, anyway.

Faeriewench,

The magical thinking kills me. If these animals are as truly evolved as some of these activists think they are, if they are these telepathic Atlantean gods as hippies portray, then they are fully aware that every demonstration of their skills has helped an animal they will never meet. You'd think the world's activists would be thrilled that some turtle with a fishing hook stuck in his throat was helped and freed. They should use their famous copy and paste commenting ability to tell people to be more careful in the ocean, to prevent accidents that compel orcas to aid their fellow animal.

They don't do the feedings like this anymore? I was wondering why the girl was wearing a shirt depicting a cartoon that no longer runs, it's an old picture? I wondered how the park controlled the amount of fish the dolphins got in this situation, and how they controlled the people.

You answered my question with your post.

I must be a freak, I don't want to touch them and dance with them, I just want to see them. Dolphins smile like the Joker, I wouldn't mind seeing a show where they steal fish.

[DontWantToWait42mar0]

"But taking away the shows is the worst thing anyone can do."

-faeriewench-

Worse than genocide?

I'm sorry, but I think your infatuation with seeing marine animals on display has clouded your judgement.

[Tanna]

I've searched the whole thread for where this quote was said by me, and cannot find it.

In fact, it doesn't sound like my voice.

And also, you've isolated the quote, taking it out the context in which the original poster meant, and inserted a topic unrelated to the original premise from which the quote was taken- as if we were not debating keeping the whales at Seaworld vs. setting them free in the ocean, but that we were comparing the cessation of Seaworld shows vs. genocide.

Can you give me exact post I said this? If you cannot, can you at least apologize for implying I see no wrong with genocide? That is a big fish, no pun intended, to throw at someone.

I can't imagine, with my penchant for avoiding generalizations, I would say or type "The worst thing anyone can do" when referring to marine shows when something like putting words in other people's mouth or type is a far worse thing to do.

In several posts, I've noted that the shows aren't my bag, and I don't like trainers in the water, so why would I suddenly be so vehement about the shows continuance?

Do you want to rethink your debate tactic?

I can understand if you wanted to imply that it was me who said this, because you might be angry at me, as you have not addressed my post in reference to whether or not you would own a pet, also you might think I might be an easier target than some of the other posters, but I did not say that quote.