Disney Fastpass+ at Walt Disney World

[bkroz]

Woof. I feel bad for the people working with guests at Walt Disney World.

You've probably heard about the coolly received MyMagic+, a massive $1.5 billion (the cost of Disney California Adventure's 7-year redo and then some) technological upgrade to Walt Disney World in Florida. It's all about the MagicBand, a plastic wristband that functions as room key, park ticket, debit card, and Fastpass with no barcodes required.

The big push was Fastpass+, the element of the much larger program that allows Walt Disney World visitors to pre-book their Fastpass selections days, weeks, even months in advance with no paper tickets.

Disney fans immediately poo-pooed Fastpass+ as a way to suck spontaneity out of trips, forcing visitors to choose the days they'd visit each park and the rides they'd visit each day far in advance or else see the big rides get booked up completely.

The project is apparently over budget and admittedly far over-schedule, but just last week, Fastpass+ ended its first limited test runs and became available to everyone at Walt Disney World. As a result, legacy Fastpass is gone. There are no more paper tickets with hour long return windows at Walt Disney World, period.

Along the way, a number of limits and measures have been added to Fastpass+, limiting who's allowed to pre-book and who must wait in lines at electronic kiosks the day of (guess who gets the perks?), limited the number of Fastpasses you're allowed to have every day (currently, 3), and basically restricting the system big time for people who visit the most often: annual passholders, locals, and folks who choose not to stay at Walt Disney World resort hotels.

The biggest step (and perhaps blunder) came yesterday when word got out that Walt Disney World annual passholders are severely, severely limited in their use of Fastpass+. They may use it any 7 days per 60 day period. So those locals who paid between $600 and $950 for the tiered annual passes no longer have the open access to Fastpass that they had. And indeed, those are the people who had mastered the system and used it with skill and precision, now limited to one week of use per two months.

Every step Disney takes to make Fastpass+ "happen," guests cringe and revolt. Basically the question that was asked as each of these restrictions was added was, "Okay, maybe that rule is a necessary evil... But then, was the old Fastpass system really broken enough that we had to replace it with this?"

It should come as no surprise that the new system benefits and incentivizes staying in Walt Disney World hotels. Terrifying rumors also hint that we may soon see a tweak where guests at Disney's Deluxe hotels get 5 picks a day... Value hotels get 2 or 3.

What was it we were all saying about how great Disney's Fastpass was and how we wanted it at Kings Island?

I wrote up a guide to the 7 Fastpass+ restrictions here if you have an upcoming Walt Disney World vacation or want to know more about this system that has replaced Fastpass.

By the way, the chances of this system coming to Disneyland Resort and incredibly slim at this point. The massively local population would revolt after seeing what the implementation of this system has been like at Walt Disney World. What's more, Disneyland hotels are already at capacity, so there's little need to incentivize them with a billion dollar investment to the resort. Even then, a massive, massive chunk of Disneyland visitors are annual passholders, and a very, very small chunk of visitors stay at Disneyland hotels, so the system would be very lopsided in its benefits and 90% of visitors would have to line up every morning to get to a kiosk while only 10% from the hotels would have the benefit of pre-booking.

To also put it into a very sad perspective, the $1.5 billion (or more) Walt Disney World has used on MyMagic+ is the same amount spent on Disney California Adventure, adding all of Buena Vista Street, all of Cars Land (Radiator Springs Racers, Luigi's Flying Tires, Mater's Junkyard Jamboree), The Little Mermaid: Ariel's Undersea Adventure, Toy Story Midway Mania, World of Color, rebuilding all of Paradise Pier's flat rides, Paradise Garden, Mickey's Fun Wheel renovation, and the place-making of all eight of the park's lands.

[The Interpreter]

If I didn't already prefer the Disneyland Resort by a factor of about 1000...

[RailRider]

Well put. I loved the original FastPass system and had it down to a science. This system for now with the restrictions is crap. That is me being nice. I had Disney World touring down to a science, but now I will actually cut classic rides out. Sorry not Peter Pan for me now, Im not hitting it first thing and will not waist 1 of 3 Fastpass+ tickets on it. This system would be amazing if they let me book my entire trip prior to arrival, but that is not the case. As the system stands now it is garbage compared to the original system.

[bengals fan]

over thinking the system has created a SNAFU

[bkroz]

And I'd bet lots of money that Peter Pan's Flight is tier 1, so if you select it as your one tier 1 Fastpass+ selection, the rest of your choices will be high-capacity meet-and-greets and rides that never used to have Fastpass... and never needed it. EDIT: In other words, if you select Peter Pan's Flight, you will no doubt have no choice but to ride "stand-by" for Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, etc. You get one big ride per day.

Just imagine your day at a Disney park (and these are the real tiers at Epcot)

CHOOSE ONE:

• Test Track presented by Chevrolet
• Soarin'
• Maelstrom
• Illuminations prime viewing
• Meet Mickey

CHOOSE TWO:

• Captain EO (never a wait, ever)
• Journey into Imagination (never a wait, ever)
• Living with the Land (maybe up to 15 minute wait some days)
• Mission Space (sometimes 15 - 30 minute wait)
• The Seas with Nemo and Friends (an exhibit... so no wait, ever)
• Turtle Talk with Crush (no wait of more than one show-cycle)

So Disney has ingeniously forced folks to choose between attractions that never had a wait, never used (or needed) Fastpass, and therefore spread out the reservations. Meanwhile, you may choose ONE of the park's major rides. So if you select Test Track, then if you want to ride Soarin', you MUST wait in the full queue. If you choose Meet Mickey as your tier 1 choice, you won't see Test Track or Soarin' or Maelstrom without the hour-long queues associated with each on even the slowest days.

And don't forget that unless you're staying in a Walt Disney World resort hotel, you will be making your Fastpass+ selections by waiting in line at kiosks first thing in the morning where some options may "sell out."

[Hank]

I still feel that Fast Pass is unfair and ruins things for most park visitors. I don't want to turn this into yet another "I like Fast Pass and you're f'n nuts" vs "I hate Fast Pass and you're stupid" thread, but, as Mr. Good Yellow Corn said in his posting (and I have posted repeatedly) Fast Pass allows "perks" to those who have the means to hand over extra bucks, then there's another step up if you hand over MORE bucks, and so on - where's the line in the sand gonna be drawn - it now could possibly be affecting a broader range of potential park visitors - even locals - and is getting ready to blow up in the park owners' faces.

If they just want more money, charge it upfront on the admission and be done. But no - they're turning the park experience into a Wall Street trading mess, futures included, unaffordable and unfair to the "middle class".

Don't argue with me - this is how I feel and I believe THAT right hasn't been taken from me - or do I need to pay an extra fee to have my posts stay in the thread where they would normally be, sorted by date and time, rather than pushed to the end of the thread?

Yes, I'm ****ed!

[bkroz]

I still feel that Fast Pass is unfair and ruins things for most park visitors ... but, as Mr. Good Yellow Corn said in his posting (and I have posted repeatedly) Fast Pass allows "perks" to those who have the means to hand over extra bucks, then there's another step up if you hand over MORE bucks, and so on ...

I'm not sure if you understand the original Fastpass. It was (and continues to be now as Fastpass+) included with park admission for everyone. Anyone could use the old Fastpass tickets, and everyone can use Fastpass+.

The only perk now is that hotel guests at Walt Disney World can pre-book their Fastpass+ selections while regular guests make their reservations day-of (the way they always did with old Fastpass anyway, now it's just in one kiosk instead of different distribution machines all around the park).

As of now, the tiers and daily limits imposed on guests with Fastpass+ are imposed on EVERYONE, from guests staying at deluxe $500+ a night Disney hotels to those walking in from Kissimmee. The idea that that might shift in the future to incentivize staying in Disney's more expensive hotels is purely fan speculation. Disney's Fastpass and Fastpass+ are included in park admission, and every guest can use them equally, with the same daily limits and tiers.

If they just want more money, charge it upfront on the admission and be done. But no - they're turning the park experience into a Wall Street trading mess, futures included, unaffordable and unfair to the "middle class".

That's precisely what they did, and that's why Fastpass+ is included with your park admission, just as legacy paper Fastpass has been since 1999.

The frustration fans are having about Fastpass+ is that it's complex with so many tiers and daily limits and odd attraction selections, but there is not now nor are there any plans to lift or change those restrictions for people who pay more (be it through a hotel, extra ticket option, etc).

[Diamondback FOF]

So they are still using the old Fastpass system, and have just added Fastpass+?

[bkroz]

So they are still using the old Fastpass system, and have just added Fastpass+?

Nope, paper Fastpass is gone for good. The machines are being removed.

Fastpass+ is all that's left, so you get three Fastpass rides per day, according to the tiers.

That's half the problem.

If legacy Fastpass stuck around, too, I certainly wouldn't be complaining. Let the hotel folks pre-book and the rest of us continue on with our old, trusty Fastpass. But nope.

[RailRider]

No the old Fastpass system and the paper tickets is gone. It has been replaced by the + system. Which limits the flexibility of the old system, by setting tiers and limits. Still free with your paid admission, but not as flexible or beneficial.

[bkroz]

No the old Fastpass system and the paper tickets is gone. It has been replaced by the + system. Which limits the flexibility of the old system, by setting tiers and limits. Still free with your paid admission, but not as flexible or beneficial.

That's precisely it and a simple way to explain it to Hank.

Fastpass+ is still just as free and just as equally accessible to everyone as it used to be (besides hotel folks getting to book in advance). The real issue people have is that it's not flexible and it's not as beneficial because you can really only select one major ride (but again, even folks at Disney's most expensive hotel still only get one tier 1 choice).

[RailRider]

EasyWDW sums up the new system with this picture perfectly.

[medford]

When we went about 4.5 years ago, I believe the system was, you could get up to two (or perhaps it was just 1) fast passes per ticket at one time, but couldn't pick up an additional one until you used up one or both of your original fast passes, or their time slots expired. So you could get a fast pass for something w/ an hour+ long wait, for a couple of hours away, then spend the time eating lunch, riding a few rides w/ shorter lines, then use your fast pass, enjoy the big attraction, then go get another fast pass.

I really liked that system, it allowed you to set up mini blocks to your day depending on what you wanted to ride for sure, then fill in the rest of the day getting on other rides. Even better, your mini blocks didn't have to be planned out. It had been a good 20+ years since my prior visit as a kid, so aside from my own child hood memories, I couldn't say I had the park mapped out very well like the way I do Kings Island.

If I'm reading this correctly, does that now mean, if I want to do a fast pass for Space mountain, even if I set it up a month in advance, does that mean once I hop off Space Mountain, I no longer can get a fast pass for Big Thunder mountain? Seems like a big mis-step from the previous system. To echo the comments above, Peter Pan was alright when we went 4.5 years ago. I believe we used one of our fast passes for that as it fit into our time slot, and our then 1 year old son could ride with us. I think we had lunch and rode Dumbo while we were waiting for our fast pass time slot to que up. IIRC, the listed wait time was about 70 or 75 minutes, definently over an hour. Knowing what I do now about the ride, no way in hades I'm waiting an hour+ for that ride, nor am I going to use my only fast pass+ ticket for it.

Am I reading this correctly? I've never been to Universal, though it certainly intrigues me. If nothing else, this seems like more incentive to spend my vacation money there, rather than in Disney Parks.

[shark6495]

Part of me feels that the changes are done for the betterment of the park. Many admit that the old system was flawed. Many people would go around and collect fast pass tickets and then go back and use them later on (not at the right time). Because so many abused the system, changes had to be made. Limiting the number of rides you can use FP+ also does not sound like a big deal over all. Again, to avoid the abusers.

I hate to say it, but to me, life is not always fair. You pay more usually you get more. My wife and I decided to stay on property at Universal for the exact reason of getting fast pass (or what ever it is called at Universal). We will probably stay on property at Disney to just get perks as well.

[medford]

another question,

Lets say you book your fastpass+ tier one fast pass a month in advance, does it give you a specific time window that it is good for that day, or do you have the flexability to use it at any point in the day? The one downside of the old fastpass system, was that you could get to the park in the morning like we did for Animal Kingdom, then get our fastpass for Expedition Everest (or whatever its called, can't remember the exact name) which was a decent amount of time into the day. What if that time wasn't good for you? What if you found yourself in another part of the park and didn't feel like moving over? Granted, you know pretty well in advance when your time slot was, and you had an hour to meet it, but it did limit you in a sense (though I honestly can say, I never felt limited by the times, just something to work around, which given the abundance of options wasn't so bad) If fastpass+ gives you an open ended fastpass for that particular day, that could be a step in the right direction; means you could use it any time you like (of course that also means there is no way to predict how long the fastpass+ line would be, which could create issues)

[bkroz]

^^^ and ^ You get the idea, yep.

The old paper Fastpass system had the limits you discussed. You could hold only one at a time, getting second one either A] after the "start" time of your first came around OR B] two hours after you got the first, whichever was earlier.

The result was that for folks like me who knew the system, I could arrive first in the morning, get a Fastpass for Space Mountain with a return time of say, 9:00 AM, then ride Space Mountain with little wait. Then, I could eat breakfast. By that time it would be 9:00, so I could get a Fastpass for Splash Mountain, then return and ride Space Mountain again during my window etc etc through the day. You could, in effect, get as many Fastpass tickets as you felt like walking for as long as you obeyed the time cut-offs and one-at-a-time rule. You could abuse the system like shark said above by hoarding your Fastpasses and using them far after the window closed for each, but I didn't.

Now, you can have a maximum of three per day, and only one can be a "tier 1" attraction. Of course, the tier 1 attractions are the rides that are in high demand. Your Fastpasses will be set up ahead of time (either way ahead of time if you're in a hotel, or first thing in the morning if you're not).

The way it works functionally is that you're presented with a screen with a list of attractions and told CHOOSE ONE (these are your major tier 1 attractions), then a second screen where you CHOOSE TWO (these are the low-demand tier 2 attractions).

Then a third screen gives you three or four options that mix and match those three rides into schedules complete with a one-hour window for each (see the very small picture):

This example shows three tier 1 attractions (a clever deception... not actually possible) but as you can see it gives four options of touring plans with return times to select from. You simply choose the arrangement that works for you and it's loaded onto your MagicBand, no paper tickets needed.

Disney's hope is that you'll also have synced your park ticket and MagicBand with their "My Disney Experience" mobile app, which is how you'd check your return times in case you forget. (That over-reliance on technology is turning out to be half the problem as Disney's largely international visitors don't have smart phones with them, and us plain ole Midwesterners aren't always too great at learnin' new-fangled devices. What if your family vacation relied on your mom planning... via smartphone?) Through that app, you can adjust your reservations (if there are any open slots left by time you do... the ride may have sold out). You'll have an hour-long window just like original Fastpass had.

Part of me feels that the changes are done for the betterment of the park. Many admit that the old system was flawed. Many people would go around and collect fast pass tickets and then go back and use them later on (not at the right time). Because so many abused the system, changes had to be made. Limiting the number of rides you can use FP+ also does not sound like a big deal over all. Again, to avoid the abusers.

Even Disney fans agree that the window needed closed, forcing guests to return when the Fastpass ticket told them too. And that's the first thing Walt Disney World did (step 1 in the article I linked to in the first post). That happened well over a year ago, and it worked. My argument and the argument of a lot of Disney Parks fans is, it could've stopped there. At that point, Fastpass was "fixed."

When I followed the rules and still obtained 4, 5, 6, 7 Fastpasses a day by holding one at a time and always returning during my window, I was not an "abuser." The point of the system was to use it. I did so. I didn't take away from anyone else's experience by knowing how Fastpass worked and following the rules to use it. Limiting the number of attractions with Fastpass+ is a necessary evil since now nearly 100% of guests should be using it... But then the question is, "Was Fastpass really broken enough that it needed replaced with this, which limits my experience and doesn't overly benefit others?"Because now, I don't get my 5 or 6 Fastpass rides, and now EVERYONE only gets one major attraction Fastpass.

[upstop]

The issue is not to give the customer a good ride experience, it is to TRACK TRACK TRACK your every move, thereby uping potential sales. By this I mean, Joe and his family stop to look at Mickey stuffed animals on Main Street USA (tracked location)...then later on they stop one more time to view Mickey stuffed animals in Fantasyland....later on a phone app (future technology..or current...hard to tell these days) Notifies Joe...."500 feet to your right at the Merchant of Venus, we have a wonderful collection of Mickey Stuffed animals for your family to view! Have a wonderful day!" Now apply this to any condition or sale - Food, show, attraction or toilet for that matter.

[shark6495]

IMHO getting another fast pass ticket, while holding on to another, is abusing the system. Yes it was technically in the rules. But the window closed so you couldnt have more than one in your possession. Yet you still did. I totally agree that the idea of getting a pass then riding some other rides without a wait or eating is part of the plan. But stopping and getting a pass because your window opened while holding another pass, is a mistake. Yes thats just my opinion. But I am not going to lie, I would probably do the same thing, as yes its an abuse of the system. I totally get it.

The system will keep changing. I see a problem with this is that those with hopper passes will have issues with changing parks. I also see that this limit will be the start that each hotel will have a certain number of options for fast pass upgrade (non resort stayers get 1 tier 1, value get 2, moderate get 3, etc)

[bkroz]

It's absolutely not an abuse of the system. If my Fastpass return window is 9:10 - 10:10, my responsibility is to return to the attraction between 9:10 and 10:10.

What in the world difference does it make if, on the way to my Fastpass ride at 9:20, I pass Splash Mountain and decide to pick up a Fastpass for that en route? What in the world is the difference between picking it up then, on the way to the ride, versus riding my Fastpass ride, then walking all the way back at 9:50?

Fastpass operates by a computer calculating a ride's hourly throughput, then sectioning off a percentage of that hour's capacity to Fastpass users. It then distributes exactly as many Fastpass tickets for each hour long window as it takes to fulfill that percentage of a ride's capacity, automatically adjusting the "stand-by" wait display to account for the amount of people it assumes, mathematically, will return based on the current time and the number of Fastpasses distributed for that time. In other words, the system relies on me returning during my window to that particular attraction.

Each ride is separate. Me getting a fastpass for Splash Mountain once my Space Mountain window has arrived has zero impact whatsoever on either attraction's measurements as long as I ride Space Mountain within my window. Period.

The computers that run Fastpass couldn't give a rat's behind how many Fastpasses are in my pocket or how many I'm juggling at the same time. They rely only on my returning to an attraction during the window I'm assigned. There's no morality to be seen in that.

[RailRider]

Here is an opinion from someone I would consider an expert on touring Disney. Josh over at easywdw.com

Interesting insight to say the least.

Touring with FP+ is different. But different isn’t always worse. The three FP+ cap at Magic Kingdom is limiting. There is no getting around that, but there are positive takeaways too. It was really nice being able to walk into Enchanted Tales in the afternoon with a FP+ reservation made earlier that day – something that wasn’t possible before. I accomplished everything I wanted to that morning with virtually no waits, even with people being able to schedule FP+ first thing in the morning. The only thing I wasn’t able to do was run around Magic Kingdom collecting paper FASTPASSes to re-ride a couple attractions later in the afternoon. Is one less re-ride going to keep you away from Walt Disney World? Is it worth stressing over? Is the world ending because you find yourself on a relaxing Liberty Square Riverboat ride instead of huffing and puffing back to Big Thunder Mountain to ride for the third time that day? This is your own business. But I can assure you that it’s going to be all right.

We can do this.

[bkroz]

The issue is not to give the customer a good ride experience, it is to TRACK TRACK TRACK your every move, thereby uping potential sales. By this I mean, Joe and his family stop to look at Mickey stuffed animals on Main Street USA (tracked location)...then later on they stop one more time to view Mickey stuffed animals in Fantasyland....later on a phone app (future technology..or current...hard to tell these days) Notifies Joe...."500 feet to your right at the Merchant of Venus, we have a wonderful collection of Mickey Stuffed animals for your family to view! Have a wonderful day!" Now apply this to any condition or sale - Food, show, attraction or toilet for that matter.

This is something Disney has been very (necessarily) transparent about because you can't TRACK TRACK TRACK someone under 18 without explicitly explaining your procedure and getting an okay from parents or guardians.

MagicBands contain a technology called RFID - radio frequency identification. Each band contains a tiny chip about the size of a grain of rice. It has no power source or battery. It can't be turned "on" or "off." It operates off of very short distance radio waves. Its only ability is to transmit a series of digits that are specifically assigned to each guest (affiliated, then, with a park ticket barcode, a debit account, a room key barcode, etc all consolidated into one digit code).

The RFID chip operates off of radio frequency, so it automatically transmits the numbers when it comes within short (centimeters) distance of an RFID receptor that can receive such radio signals and unscramble them.

It would be impractical for Disney to build large radio receivers that could collect huge amounts of data and customers simply walk along pathways. What's more, that's not built into the agreement guests participate in through their use of the Band. Can they assemble information about which Fastpass+ rides guests entered, what time they entered the parks, which restaurants they ate at, etc? Sure. The same way they could with meals being charged to room keys and room keys doubling as park tickets. But there is no giant GPS map of Magic Kingdom tracking a person's move like a blipping dot on a radar.

[Hank]

I hate to say it, but to me, life is not always fair. You pay more usually you get more.

I understand and have always understood the Fast Pass systems, new and old. What upsets me is that I'm paying big bucks to try and have a good time at a given park, and someone with even more bucks gets to cut in front of me. If those people and myself were having a shrimp dinner at Red Lobster, and they had a Red Lobster Fast Pass, would they be seated before me? (I don't believe Red Lobster takes reservations). Having a reservation at a restaurant is fine - but I didn't have to pay to get into the establishment, nor did I pay for parking.

[shark6495]

IMHO the idea for fast pass should be used 1 at a time. WDW was nice and gave you a ticket to allow you to eat or potty break or get a short ride in b4 your time. The biggest difference between getting a new ticket on your way vs after you ride is that its one more person for the Que to handle. That means other people's wait times will be back up just slightly. If more and more do this, then you have a big snafu. So thats why I feel it is an abuse. Again just my opinion. Because people abused it that had to make changes.

[shark6495]

I hate to say it, but to me, life is not always fair. You pay more usually you get more.

I understand and have always understood the Fast Pass systems, new and old. What upsets me is that I'm paying big bucks to try and have a good time at a given park, and someone with even more bucks gets to cut in front of me. If those people and myself were having a shrimp dinner at Red Lobster, and they had a Red Lobster Fast Pass, would they be seated before me? (I don't believe Red Lobster takes reservations). Having a reservation at a restaurant is fine - but I didn't have to pay to get into the establishment, nor did I pay for parking.

good point. But if Red Lobster were to tell you "Mr. Hank, for an additional 20 dollars we can seat you now, and guarantee your food will be delivered 20 minutes faster." some people will say, you know we are in no hurry, its okay Im saving the extra 20 dollars, and some people will say yes seat me now.

[RailRider]

I hate to say it, but to me, life is not always fair. You pay more usually you get more.

I understand and have always understood the Fast Pass systems, new and old. What upsets me is that I'm paying big bucks to try and have a good time at a given park, and someone with even more bucks gets to cut in front of me. If those people and myself were having a shrimp dinner at Red Lobster, and they had a Red Lobster Fast Pass, would they be seated before me? (I don't believe Red Lobster takes reservations). Having a reservation at a restaurant is fine - but I didn't have to pay to get into the establishment, nor did I pay for parking.

The legacy Fastpass system and the new Fastpass+ system were/are free with your paid admission. Any park guest may choose to use either system at no extra cost. So because someone uses the Fastpass+ system to bypass the stand by line you are in, does not mean they spent any extra money than you. Merely they are taking advantage of a free system to better use the time they have in the park, as a park guest you have the same opportunity. Without spending any extra Nickles. This system is very different that the upcharge system KI uses.

[bkroz]

IMHO the idea for fast pass should be used 1 at a time. WDW was nice and gave you a ticket to allow you to eat or potty break or get a short ride in b4 your time. The biggest difference between getting a new ticket on your way vs after you ride is that its one more person for the Que to handle. That means other people's wait times will be back up just slightly. If more and more do this, then you have a big snafu. So thats why I feel it is an abuse. Again just my opinion. Because people abused it that had to make changes.

There's no explaining this, and I'll make only one more attempt to. I think you have an incorrect view of what Fastpass does. "One more person for the queue to handle?" What? I'm going to get one Fastpass for Splash Mountain, period. What the hell difference does it make if I get it on the way to Space Mountain (return time 10:00 - 11:00) or trek all the way back after Space Mountain (return time 10:30 - 11:30). That's why the hour long window slides through the day. Let's say for every 100 Fastpass tickets it gives out, it slides the window forward by ten minutes. So, I'm going to be 1 of those 100 whether I pick one up on the way or if I wait until after.

To put it another way, what if my return time for Space Mountain was 9:00 - 10:00.

In situation A, I start walking toward Space Mountain at 9:30, and on the way I pick up a Peter Pan's Flight fastpass at 9:35.

In situation B, I ride Space Mountain right when my window starts at 9:00, then afterwards walk to Peter Pans' Flight and pick up a Fastpass for it at... 9:35...

What in the world difference in there, according to the computer, in those two situations? Explain again how I've added "one more person for the queue to handle?"

I have used one at a time. I got a Fastpass for Peter Pan's Flight at 9:35. What in the world difference does it make if I chose to use my Space Mountain Fastpass before or after I get my Peter Pan's Flight Fastpass so long as it falls within my 9:00 - 10:00 window? My goodness...

I hate to say it, but to me, life is not always fair. You pay more usually you get more.

I understand and have always understood the Fast Pass systems, new and old. What upsets me is that I'm paying big bucks to try and have a good time at a given park, and someone with even more bucks gets to cut in front of me. If those people and myself were having a shrimp dinner at Red Lobster, and they had a Red Lobster Fast Pass, would they be seated before me? (I don't believe Red Lobster takes reservations). Having a reservation at a restaurant is fine - but I didn't have to pay to get into the establishment, nor did I pay for parking.

But it really seems like you don't, because no one with more bucks is cutting in front of you... You can get exactly as many Fastpass reservations as anyone else, period. I mean, you said not to argue with you and I guess I won't waste my time if you've taken strongly to the idea that Fastpass is inherently unfair and that the middle class is getting trampled on... But this is the only equitable theme park virtual queueing system I know of, and the only one that's included with park admission for every single visitor. I don't know what else to say. Sounds like you've spent a lot of time mulling over how terribly you're treated and how unfair everything is, so there's not much convincing I can do.

[Hank]

IMHO the idea for fast pass should be used 1 at a time. WDW was nice and gave you a ticket to allow you to eat or potty break or get a short ride in b4 your time. The biggest difference between getting a new ticket on your way vs after you ride is that its one more person for the Que to handle. That means other people's wait times will be back up just slightly. If more and more do this, then you have a big snafu. So thats why I feel it is an abuse. Again just my opinion. Because people abused it that had to make changes.

There's no explaining this, and I'll make only one more attempt to. I think you have an incorrect view of what Fastpass does. "One more person for the queue to handle?" What? I'm going to get one Fastpass for Splash Mountain, period. What the hell difference does it make if I get it on the way to Space Mountain (return time 10:00 - 11:00) or trek all the way back after Space Mountain (return time 10:30 - 11:30). That's why the hour long window slides through the day. Let's say for every 100 Fastpass tickets it gives out, it slides the window forward by ten minutes. So, I'm going to be 1 of those 100 whether I pick one up on the way or if I wait until after.

To put it another way, what if my return time for Space Mountain was 9:00 - 10:00.

In situation A, I start walking toward Space Mountain at 9:30, and on the way I pick up a Peter Pan's Flight fastpass at 9:35.

In situation B, I ride Space Mountain right when my window starts at 9:00, then afterwards walk to Peter Pans' Flight and pick up a Fastpass for it at... 9:35...

What in the world difference in there, according to the computer, in those two situations? Explain again how I've added "one more person for the queue to handle?"

I have used one at a time. I got a Fastpass for Peter Pan's Flight at 9:35. What in the world difference does it make if I chose to use my Space Mountain Fastpass before or after I get my Peter Pan's Flight Fastpass so long as it falls within my 9:00 - 10:00 window? My goodness...

I hate to say it, but to me, life is not always fair. You pay more usually you get more.

I understand and have always understood the Fast Pass systems, new and old. What upsets me is that I'm paying big bucks to try and have a good time at a given park, and someone with even more bucks gets to cut in front of me. If those people and myself were having a shrimp dinner at Red Lobster, and they had a Red Lobster Fast Pass, would they be seated before me? (I don't believe Red Lobster takes reservations). Having a reservation at a restaurant is fine - but I didn't have to pay to get into the establishment, nor did I pay for parking.

But it really seems like you don't, because no one with more bucks is cutting in front of you... You can get exactly as many Fastpass reservations as anyone else, period. I mean, you said not to argue with you and I guess I won't waste my time if you've taken strongly to the idea that Fastpass is inherently unfair and that the middle class is getting trampled on... But this is the only equitable theme park virtual queueing system I know of, and the only one that's included with park admission for every single visitor. I don't know what else to say. Sounds like you've spent a lot of time mulling over how terribly you're treated and how unfair everything is, so there's not much convincing I can do.

I guess I was jumping the gun - it's the staying at the more expensive resort thing that bothered me. The free Fast Pass system is fine and I have used that on my visits. The Fast Pass "extra pay" system is the one that upsets me, be it Disney, Cedar Fair, or whomever. I hope I have cleared my opinion up a bit.

[bkroz]

The staying at the more expensive resort thing is all just fan speculation. You can see why Disney would consider it, but of course there's no word that they're even looking at that as an option. At this point, I think people would literally storm the castle. Literally.

[medford]

I hate to say it, but to me, life is not always fair. You pay more usually you get more.

I understand and have always understood the Fast Pass systems, new and old. What upsets me is that I'm paying big bucks to try and have a good time at a given park, and someone with even more bucks gets to cut in front of me. If those people and myself were having a shrimp dinner at Red Lobster, and they had a Red Lobster Fast Pass, would they be seated before me? (I don't believe Red Lobster takes reservations). Having a reservation at a restaurant is fine - but I didn't have to pay to get into the establishment, nor did I pay for parking.

The legacy Fastpass system and the new Fastpass+ system were/are free with your paid admission. Any park guest may choose to use either system at no extra cost. So because someone uses the Fastpass+ system to bypass the stand by line you are in, does not mean they spent any extra money than you. Merely they are taking advantage of a free system to better use the time they have in the park, as a park guest you have the same opportunity. Without spending any extra Nickles. This system is very different that the upcharge system KI uses.

I'd certainly aruge that Fastpass system is "FREE". Kind of like the pop at Holiday World, its included with the cost of admission, its a perk some guests choose (knowingly or unknowningly) to not participate in. Also like the pop with "free" refills at a restaurant, the anticipated refills are built into the original price of the pop, some take more advantage of the perk than others.

[medford]

I hate to say it, but to me, life is not always fair. You pay more usually you get more.

I understand and have always understood the Fast Pass systems, new and old. What upsets me is that I'm paying big bucks to try and have a good time at a given park, and someone with even more bucks gets to cut in front of me. If those people and myself were having a shrimp dinner at Red Lobster, and they had a Red Lobster Fast Pass, would they be seated before me? (I don't believe Red Lobster takes reservations). Having a reservation at a restaurant is fine - but I didn't have to pay to get into the establishment, nor did I pay for parking.

I don't know what Red Lobster's official policy is, but I'm guessing on more than one occasion, somebody walked into a Red Lobster with an hour long wait, and either knew the hostess personally, or quietly slipped him/her a little extra money to get seated before those that arrived before them. I'll assume that is against company policy, for the obvious bad PR it would create, but I'd be shocked if it hasn't happened. Same principle applies to just about anything in life that a specific value can be placed upon. I can pay extra money and get a part "quick shipped" so that I have it in my hands quicker than the guy who paid regular freight. I can pay the butcher a little extra and get a better cut of meat. I know a lady who shops at a particular small, local grocery store so much that they give her free hams (about a $50 value) several times a year. I don't get that benefit by shopping there a handful of times a year because I'm looking for something that the local Krogers doesn't carry or have in the same quality as the specialty grocery store.