Skybridge: Yes or No

[CartersCoasters]

90% of the time that I exit or enter White Water Canyon, I get stopped at the train crossing because the staff close the gate 3 minutes before the train dispatches. If this is for safety reasons, then they should add a skybridge like at the picnic grove crossing. I know it’ll be small, but if its busy, guests should get to make the most of their day, and not have to wait at a train crossing. If this isnt for safety reasons, they should tell operators to shut the gate when the train is clear to move.

[WoodVengeance]

38 minutes ago, CartersCoasters said:

90% of the time that I exit or enter White Water Canyon, I get stopped at the train crossing because the staff close the gate 3 minutes before the train dispatches. If this is for safety reasons, then they should add a skybridge like at the picnic grove crossing. I know it’ll be small, but if its busy, guests should get to make the most of their day, and not have to wait at a train crossing. If this isnt for safety reasons, they should tell operators to shut the gate when the train is clear to move.

There used to be a skybridge for White Water Canyon when the queue went through the area that's now taken up by Mystic Timbers. My guess is that when they rerouted the queue back in 2016, they probably didn't have the budget to build a new skybridge and opted for a train crossing instead.

[SonofBaconator]

Kings Dominion’s Railroad used to have a level crossing for Grizzly. Actually, if you look their old railroad versus ours, Grizzly’s placement would be almost similar to how Mystic Timber’s is except the station was inside the track so riders would have to wait at the crossing before proceeding to the ride.

Heck you still have to wait for the crossing at Soak City but at least you have the option to utilize the overhead skywalk if you do not wish to wait though the ramp itself, though is not ADA compliant like white water canyons old entrance was.

 

I argue that the implementation of the gate not only kills wait times but also wastes an associate- as there always has to be someone there to supervise crossing.

There have been complaints online about the park running three car operations per train. A typical six car train consists of two conductors – one on each end. The front conductor supervises the first three cars, runs the spiel, as well as communicating with the engine crew whereas the back conductor supervises the last three cars and communicates with the front conductor via hand waves and radio during certain points of the ride along straight track along the bridge and near the engine shed.

The reason why one conductor cannot supervise a whole six car train is because the various curves along the track obscure a conductor’s view of the whole train. This is why when staffing is short you can only run a three car train. 

If you break down the staffing for a full train you need an engineer and a fireman, and two conductors on either end of the train: 4 total. If you’re running two full trains then that number doubles to 8- that’s not to mention the brakes at the engineers have to take so probably more, but I’m not sure the engineers schedules.

Back to the matter at hand – when they removed the overpass to Whitewater Canyon to make room for Mystic Timbers, and did not choose to rebuild it- instead opting a level crossing and thus sacrificing an associate. If they had just rebuilt the ramp else where, then they could’ve kept six car operations on a more consistent basis.

I guess another way around this is if you have somewhat of an HUD display at the back or front of the train that has cameras for the conductor to be able to view the whole train but that just seems too cumbersome and inefficient should a camera prove to be faulty during a trip. 

If any of you go to other amusement parks and noticed that their railroads feature one conductor and they have a tray longer than three cars it’s typically because their track layout is straighter and doesn’t have as tight of curves or obstructions like Kings Island does. If you take Disney, for example there are not a whole lot of obstructions that would prevent the back conductor from viewing the whole train, the same for Cedar Point, Busch Gardens, etc.

I understand that there are budget cuts, employee shortages, and so on, but I argue that transport rides of any kind need to be operating on a consistent basis, even if that does mean one train with a full set of six cars.  It does become a real inconvenience for parents who use the train as a transport ride to go to and from the waterpark when they’re running at bare minimum.

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

There would still need to be a crossing guard if the setup were identical to the Soak City crossing. If the entire crossing were grade-separated like it was before 2016, there would need to be a series of ramps in addition to the stairs up to the bridge. Changing it now would probably require the removal of the plant tunnels and a funky looking structure for the ramps. I enjoyed the look of the old entrance, but the one that's there now is considerably shorter and works well where it is. Building a bridge would probably cost way more than it would cost to just hire an associate to man that position year to year. There's a small rumor floating around that White Water Canyon could be on the chopping block too if Six Flags needs to cut more rides from each parks lineup. 

1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said:

Kings Dominion’s Railroad used to have a level crossing for Grizzly. Actually, if you look their old railroad versus ours, Grizzly’s placement would be almost similar to how Mystic Timber’s is except the station was inside the track so riders would have to wait at the crossing before proceeding to the ride.

I wholeheartedly believe that Kings Dominion should build a new railroad, even if it requires a level crossing to get over to Grizzly. That park could use a good people-eater family attraction. The biggest obstacles would be navigating it back toward their Soak City so it can function as a transport attraction, but it could work. I think Six Flags America has a railroad, so maybe the trains could come from there after that park closes. 

 

54 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

I understand that there are budget cuts, employee shortages, and so on, but I argue that transport rides of any kind need to be operating on a consistent basis, even if that does mean one train with a full set of six cars.  It does become a real inconvenience for parents who use the train as a transport ride to go to and from the waterpark when they’re running at bare minimum.

I think the baby trains may be a little better than having one full-length train because a train (even with three cars) will come around the circuit more often, but that's just me. 

[SonofBaconator]

3 hours ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:

There would still need to be a crossing guard if the setup were identical to the Soak City crossing. If the entire crossing were grade-separated like it was before 2016, there would need to be a series of ramps in addition to the stairs up to the bridge. Changing it now would probably require the removal of the plant tunnels and a funky looking structure for the ramps. I enjoyed the look of the old entrance, but the one that's there now is considerably shorter and works well where it is. Building a bridge would probably cost way more than it would cost to just hire an associate to man that position year to year. There's a small rumor floating around that White Water Canyon could be on the chopping block too if Six Flags needs to cut more rides from each parks lineup. 

I wholeheartedly believe that Kings Dominion should build a new railroad, even if it requires a level crossing to get over to Grizzly. That park could use a good people-eater family attraction. The biggest obstacles would be navigating it back toward their Soak City so it can function as a transport attraction, but it could work. I think Six Flags America has a railroad, so maybe the trains could come from there after that park closes. 

 

I think the baby trains may be a little better than having one full-length train because a train (even with three cars) will come around the circuit more often, but that's just me. 

I’m fine with the “baby trains” if they are running two trains which we have seen in the past. You’re essentially operating with a three train staff crew with the locomotive crew in the cab and one conductor (2x) so you still have a train at each station picking up people.

for the longest time, I thought the Kings Dominion’s railroad was removed due to low ridership given that it wasn’t a transport ride like ours, but I was later told that it was some type of railroad regulation, which I still don’t fully understand because Busch Gardens Williamsburg, which was a little over an hour away in the exact same state, was still able to operate theirs and even add a third locomotive two years after Kings Dominion got rid of both of theirs.

[super7]

Paramount killed KIngs Dominion when they remove the railroad, monorail, skyway, lost world, and live entertainment venues.  They made the park just for thrill riders and little children and attendance has never recovered.  
 

I would not think a level railroad crossing is worth a liability and the money saved by just not building an overpass.   Especially if it has to be staffed.

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

I thought it was removed because Paramount wanted to install new rides on that land, but I could be wrong. Xtreme Skyflyer, Hypersonic XLC, and their go karts took the space where the station and part of the track were. Now WindSeeker is the only thing left right there. The Federal Railroad Administration regulation may have been a compounding factor, but I don't know that it applied to railroads on private property like at KI, KD, and BGW. 

The "missing middle" that super7 mentioned has been an issue at a lot of Cedar Fair and Six Flags parks. This is the first year in quite a few where the Kings Dominion Theater has been used for regularly scheduled live entertainment. If Six Flags wants to attract more people to visit their parks, I think an easy way to do so would be to add attractions like trains, riverboats, and more live entertainment that runs at least Memorial Day to Labor Day. At one point (around 1985 or so) Kings Dominion had 8 venues for live entertainment. Today, that number is about 3-4 (not counting meet & greets, Action Theater, or the beloved Singing Mushrooms). It would be really nice to see that park transform a little more with more attractions to fill in that missing middle. 

 

I personally think the WWC level crossing is fine as it is. They could try to find a new configuration for the entrance, but, barring any crazy developments, it definitely will not be happening anytime soon.