Festhaus

[WooferBearATL]

Basically, the parks were beginning to carry a debt load, and budget cuts were leading to the sacrifice of quality throughout the park in virtually all areas. The latter Carl Linder years (just prior to the Paramount Purchase) were bad ones for all Kings parks. Paramount stepped up and purchased the parks which Linder was quick to unload. Without which, who knows what might have happened. Heck, if Paramount hadn't, then the parks may have become Six Flags parks eventually... need I say more?

Not true as each of the parks had remained very profitable. Each park had turned a tidy profit for as long as I can remember. My last year with the company was the year that Paramount took over.

Paramount Corporate instituted new corporate policies and procedures as well as initiatives among their regional park offices that first year. As with any business when ownership changes, so do the general terms by which it is overseen. However local management was left to operate as they had. IMO Paramount had an uphill battle since so much concern and ability to properly manage the parks had gone by the wayside in preceeding years under Linder ownership.

In actuality, Lindner had only purchased Kings Island. I was on a supervisors trip at Canada's Wonderland when we received news that American Financial Corporation had purchased the company. The big concern was what had happened while we were gone. KECO remained the management team for all the parks.

Look at the signs.... it was in the Linder years that rides began to dissapear in the park. It was also duing those years that cutbacks were made to entertainment. It was during those years that the attention to detail/quality began to decline among new attractions.

Another error in history. Entertainment had always been a priority until Paramount took over. The funny thing was that everyone thought Entertainment was the safe area as "Entertainment" was Paramount's area. Please Point Out What rides disappeared?

Someone mentioned the Wild Animal Safari/Habitat... well to cite it as an example... it had only a handful animals remaining in it's last year under Linder Management. It had become so inaffective as an attraction that they stopped requiring guests to pay extra, and even so they still couldn't get people to ride./QUOTE]

Also not accurate. WAH had always been operated in close realtions with UC and the Cincinnati Zoo. Never an issue with animal populations there.

It took a year or two for Paramount to get their footing, but I think that the Paramount buyout brought about a breath of fresh air to the parks. They must have done something right, 1996 was their top attendance year to date.

I agree. I think that they are now getting their footing. It's only onward and upward from here.

As the 1990's rounded out, I feel that the Corporate Direction of the parks again lost steam. I think that overall the parks were then poorly led by Jane Cooper who was later terminated. IMO, the worst shape that KI has ever been in was during the 1999-2000 season. Poor corporate directive, coupled with poor local management of the park, led to a lagging year with poor decisions, a poor addition, and poor guest experience.

Here I agree as well. In and around 1998, I really thought that they were going to run the parks into the ground.

I'm really not sure where the current operations team came from but it seems like they have some fresh ideas and are making the changes that are necessary.

[Shaggy]

Another error in history. Entertainment had always been a priority until Paramount took over. The funny thing was that everyone thought Entertainment was the safe area as "Entertainment" was Paramount's area. Please Point Out What rides disappeared?

I politely disagree. Live shows had already cut live band/orchestras and most roving entertainers (clown band) were already gone. Hadn't the Puppet Tree even bitten the dust by then?

Rides that disappeared in years prior to Paramount: Bayern Curve, Winnie's Cauldrons, Enchanted Voyage (although replaced) Wheel of Fortune, Tumble Bug, Cuddle Up, Sky Ride, Flying Carpet, Bavarian Beetle, Halley's Comet, Rotor, Zodiac, Flying Dutchman, Gulliver's Rub a Dub Tubs and more...

Also not accurate. WAH had always been operated in close realtions with UC and the Cincinnati Zoo. Never an issue with animal populations there.

Again I'll disagree since I base my facts on a 1992 article that ran in the Cincinnati Enquirer regarding the Habitat. I'll have to dig it up again... In it's final years I managed to ride and easily recall the lacking amount of animals as the park had already begun to distribute them elswhere away from the park.

In and around 1998, I really thought that they were going to run the parks into the ground.

It was a very bad, dark time for PKI. Such a shame to, coming off of banner years prior.

I'm really not sure where the current operations team came from but it seems like they have some fresh ideas and are making the changes that are necessary.

Let's just say that a lot of "old school" folks are no longer. I applaud the current management for recognizing what will make the parks a success and making sure the overall guest experience is given it's proper attention.

BTW.... you mentioned the lack of themed costumes. I think we'll see them re-appear in time. Winterfest is a HUGE step back to that type of themeing. Just wait until you see the costumes for those working the event.

Shaggy

[WooferBearATL]

"I politely disagree. Live shows had already cut live band/orchestras and most roving entertainers (clown band) were already gone. Hadn't the Puppet Tree even bitten the dust by then?"

- Yeah, the puppet tree did not last very long at all. Up until the year that Paramount took over there were multiple shows throughout the park. The Clown Band was still there but that was actually operated by a group outside of the Entertainment division.

"Rides that disappeared in years prior to Paramount: Bayern Curve, Winnie's Cauldrons, Enchanted Voyage (although replaced) Wheel of Fortune, Tumble Bug, Cuddle Up, Sky Ride, Flying Carpet, Bavarian Beetle, Halley's Comet, Rotor, Zodiac, Flying Dutchman, Gulliver's Rub a Dub Tubs and more..."

You know that each of those rides was removed and essentially, another ride put in it's place. My absolute favorite ride that was removed of that group was Tumble Bug even though there was always a huge wait to ride. Skylab went into it's place. Funny thing about Skylab was that whenever there was a storm, lightning would always strike that ride.

"Again I'll disagree since I base my facts on a 1992 article that ran in the Cincinnati Enquirer regarding the Habitat. I'll have to dig it up again... In it's final years I managed to ride and easily recall the lacking amount of animals as the park had already begun to distribute them elswhere away from the park."

Paramount was in control of Kings Island in 1992.

"BTW.... you mentioned the lack of themed costumes. I think we'll see them re-appear in time. Winterfest is a HUGE step back to that type of themeing. Just wait until you see the costumes for those working the event."

LOL, now this is going to sound like a geeky thing but I LOVED MY WINTERFEST UNIFORM. LOL, and the winter coat was the best. I don't think I ever got cold with it on.

[jzarley]

Paramount was in control of Kings Island in 1992.

Actually, I believe Paramount Communications' acquisition of KECO (at least the four US parks) occurred in August, 1992. I don't know if that's when the sale actually closed, or was just announced (but, it was the major story in an August '92 issue of Amusement Business). I don't know how quickly the change in control occurred, but would assume that they didn't make major operational changes that late into the season. In either case, KECO was the owner/operator for at least a big part of '92. (So...I guess you both get a half-point for that one <g>).

I do know that KI officially became PKI for the 1993 season ("Where the Magic of the Movies Meet the Thrills of a Lifetime...") and the introduction of Top Gun.

[Shaggy]

Bingo... and Top Gun construction was already underway, thus Paramount countinued with it.

Trivia.... I believe the original name of Top Gun was to be "Raven" ironically enough. Although rumor has it that they were considering using Thunder Road as well.

Shaggy

[jzarley]

Trivia.... I believe the original name of Top Gun was to be "Raven" ironically enough. Although rumor has it that they were considering using Thunder Road as well.

Shaggy

I also heard the name "Swoop!" mentioned as a rumored name for the coaster-that -became-Top Gun...

The whole "bird of prey" theme would have fit in nicely in the whole "safari" themed area. (It certainly made a lot more sense than "Top Gun" did in the safari theme )

[Gordon Bombay]

Trivia.... I believe the original name of Top Gun was to be "Raven" ironically enough.  Although rumor has it that they were considering using Thunder Road as well.

Shaggy

I also heard the name "Swoop!" mentioned as a rumored name for the coaster-that -became-Top Gun...

The whole "bird of prey" theme would have fit in nicely in the whole "safari" themed area. (It certainly made a lot more sense than "Top Gun" did in the safari theme )

Actually it was going to be called "Thunder Run" and thats a fact.

[WooferBearATL]

We'll see if anyone knows this one: What was The Bat's original name supposed to be? Second, why was the name changed before construction?

[Gordon Bombay]

^thats a good question. Was it supposed to be called vampire or vampire bat and changed because it sounded to sinister?

[jzarley]

We'll see if anyone knows this one: What was The Bat's original name supposed to be? Second, why was the name changed before construction?

Hmmm...not a clue, but sounds like a great trivia question.

Was the name change due to a Banshee/Mantis situation (they didn't look up the word's meaning in the dictionary before naming it) ?

[PkiJake13]

With all this history talk of Kings Island, it made me think, is that Kings Island history book coming out this December, I heard that it was. It was by the same guy that wrote the Coney Island book. I have been waiting for KI's for forever.

-Jake

[CoastersRZ]

I haven`t heard when Charles Jaques book is due out. When it comes out, it will be a must have book for any Kings Island fan. The Coney Island book was excellent! I read the entire book from cover to cover within a couple of days of reading it. It provided some useful answers to questions that guests would ask (primarily how old is Lake Como). (It was created in 1893 on land bought from John Wettland for $5,000.) Italian Chef, aka Charles Infosino, might know more about when it is coming out. I will definantly get it when it comes out though!

[PkiJake13]

From reading this whole post now, it sounds like Paramount may be trying toi bring back the Oktoberfest themeing that has left the park.

-Jake

[Gordon Bombay]

Maybe I can show it by pointing out things that were either done away with or changed:

International Restaurant closed. One of the most gorgeous points in the park and most relaxing to places to enjoy a very good meal. Was never a money maker like Beer Gardens, Festhaus or Columbia Palace, but it was never supposed to be. It was one of those things that set the park apart from many other things.

Eliminate Beer sales from the park. Food service prfits dropped severely with this advent. As you know, the park has slowly moved beer sales back into select locations.

Closing and eliminating many food service operations. Vending machines were put in to make up for some of the removals. Locations certainly were not eliminated due to unprofitability. I can think of only one satelite stand that did not make a profit regularly.

The elimination of almost all entertainment. From HB Characters to no less than 2 shows in each show location. Live Entertainment was always a staple of the park and anyone that worked as an Usher can tell you the popularity of the shows.

Landscaping reduced to ease of care. Take a look at where topary used to be and grooming of the trees and shrubs. An entire staff at one time used to care with design and set up of great ornamental displays.

Theming gone to sh Basically one uniform worn by every employee of the park. It's as if everyone is assigned to work Coney Mall.

Removal of WAH. Wild Animal Habitat was an area that was not only popular but also served an important function. The work done with WAH employee's along with UC and the Cincinnati Zoo was on the forefront of working with endangered species. Quite a bit of work was done there through invitro fertilization.

Slower more moderate rides have been removed that cater to a wider range of people. (ie - The Taxi's and even Eagles)

Timberwolf is used and utilized maybe 3 or 4 times a year when at a time it had been used 3 or 4 times a week.

Winterfest was ended at the park. We all know that it is and will be returning.

I can go on, but I think that this post has gotten a little long.

Your turn Combat.

I agree with the restauraunt closure, but if its not making money, then there wasting money running it, and amusement parks take a good deal amount of money to run, so if you look at it from a business standpoint they needed to do that in their eyes to save money. They had just aqquired 5 parks and thats not cheap. Eliminating Beer sales, lost money, but should happen at a 'family' park or be enforced better, ive seen way too many fights and drunken idiots at the park in my time of service there. Live entertainment decline? Nick charecters still roam the park, Paramount Theatre has had fantastic shows since Paramoutn took over that showed about 4-5 times daily depending on the show and day during the regular season. Death of Landscaping, PKI still has a ton of natural trees all over the park shading the midways, and won atleast two awards for landscaping this year that I noticed the ceremonies for on my way to work. Theming gone to s**t.......that was never a strong point any ways but the organization and lack of communication and not one designated "theme" department to organize upkeep contributes to that. Themed uniforms missing? Well, it was found in surveys that guests didnt like the themed uniforms because it made it harder to find employess and many workers claimed they werent very comfortable in the heat with them, especially women who had to wear the Top Gun jumpsuits or the FOF government uniforms. So why keep themed uniforms when that arent doing anything for anybody when you can dress your entire workforce in a code of uniform and make them look decent. Removal of Wild Animal Habitat.....popular yes......yet has huge liability and insurance costs and took up a lot of room, plus the local governemnet wasnt happy about it being there with the expansion of suburbs in the surrounding area. Slow moderate rides being removed? Taxi and eagles to name.......two. Rising gas prices and high upkeep for the taxis and the eagles......well thats just a bunch of crap especially since IJ didnt touch that spot (I was in the newspaper complaining about their removal) Yet, did Paramount throw them in the scrap pile? Nope, they continues to use them, although at a different park. Timberwold used 3 or 4 times this season? Try about 15-20 times, with concerts ( a few of them all day concert events), cheerleading competitions, and other events throughout the summer. WInterfest? Wasnt making enough profit, paramount had to make business decisions to spread money throughout the park elsewhere and now its coming back. Point: Paramount has done more for the park than any past owner and made it for profitable and well known. Its turned out to be a darn good park.

[jzarley]

Eliminating Beer sales, lost money, but should happen at a 'family' park or be enforced better, ive seen way too many fights and drunken idiots at the park in my time of service there.

Wasn't the real catalyst for the restriction of beer sales the three deaths that occured in '91 (in one day!) which were all (at least in part) alcohol related? Imagine what that must do to your liability insurance...

Also, considering the employment crunch in the 90's for that type of service job, I would imagine they had a harder and harder time staffing employees who were old enough to sell beer (isn't it 18 for closed container and 21 for open container?)

I remember reading an interview with Lindner shortly after the Parmount sale was announced saying that the events of "black Sunday" was one of the factors in his decision to sell KI...he just never felt the same walking into the park after that. I'm not sure that if his ownership of KI would have remained, there still wouldn't have been some adjustment to the beer policies.

While beer sales have certainly increased since the outright ban in the early 90's, it's still much more controlled than what it used to be...

[WooferBearATL]

*** JZARLEY got it right.

The Bat was originally to be named Banshee. Plans were drawn up and theming designed for that premise. A marketing person looked up the word in the dictionary (funny but true story) and discovered that the definition was something about a spirit stealing the souls of children.

Everyone freaked out about if (God forbid) there were ever an accident on the ride and how the headlines would read.

So goes to show how much planning actually goes into something as simple as naming a ride.

[Shaggy]

I've not heard that one before. Are you positive that it was KI?

I ask because CP had EXACTLY the same situation with Mantis in 1990's. It was supposed to be called Banshee... with the name, logo and even merchandise all copyrighted and produced. The park actually used it to promote the ride, but then received complaints. Upon researching, the name and logo was changed to Mantis. Rare CP Banshee logos, press material and merchandise items are extremely hard to come by and are very sought after collector's items.

Here's the actual timeline of the CP/Banshee change:

• On September 8, Cedar Point announced plans for Banshee

• On September 13, Due to bad public reaction to the connotation of the name, Cedar Point announced that their new stand-up roller coaster would not be called Banshee.

• On November 17, Cedar Point announced their new stand-up roller coaster would be called Mantis.

Incedentally, Holiday World had a ride called Banshee for years. It was located in the Halloween section of the park where the Halloswings currently reside. It was a chance Falling Star and HW often teased about it's name in flyers and ads for their former Stark Raven Mad events.

Shaggy

[WooferBearATL]

Yeah, posetive about it.

They told the story to us as part of Service Excellence training. I think that the reason The Bat/Vortex station looks the way it does is as a result of the Banshee themeing.

[jzarley]

Yeah, I have to confess...when I mentioned Banshee it was in reference to the Banshee/Mantis situation at Cedar Point.

At least CF got some mileage out of the logo for Banshee...Dorney reused the logo for Steel Force. (I'd still love to have one of the original t-shirts, though!)

[Captain Nemo]

::Where has this topic gone::

I never knew that The Bat was originally going to be called Banshee.

[DeLorean Rider]

Listen to Shaggy he knows what he's talking about, and I dont think that The Vortex station is supposed to be themed to anything, let alone a Banshee. That is definately a reference to Mantis.

[WooferBearATL]

Nope, something we were all told about in training. The name never did make it to the opening ride. Everything had been corrected prior to all the publicity.