New Winterfest Packages

[coasterville]

Group,

I was just looking at the "Order Tickets" page on the official WinterFest website. It's facinating to me how often that page changes.

Anyway the park is currently advertising the following packages:

1) The Two Pack - $59.95

Includes 2 Admission tickets, 1 Parking ticket, and 2 FestHaus meal tickets (beverage included)

2) The Four Pack - $99.95

Includes 4 Admission tickets, 1 parking ticket, and 4 FestHaus meal tickets (beverage included)

For both of those packages a parking voucher is worth $5, and a FestHaus Meal ticket is worth $15.70 (Most expensive meal $11.99 + $2.79 beverage + tax) Yes I know the park originally priced the FestHaus meal at $14.99 but that deal is off the table.

So a Two Pack would be worth

2 Admissions @ 19.99(presale) = $39.98

1 Parking @ $5 = $5.00

2 Meals at $15.70 = $31.40

Grand total = $76.38 value for $59.95

A Four pack would be

4 Admission @ 19.99 = $79.96

1 Parking @ $5 = $5

4 meals at $15.70 = $62.80

Grand total = $147.76 value for $99.95

(the value gets even better if you use the full $24.95 street price for gate admission)

For those not interested in a package -

Specific Day Admission - $17.99

3 Day Advance Notice pre sale - $19.99

Presale less than 3 days - $22.99

Full Gate Price - $24.99

International Restaurant open on specific nights - $26.95

[FOF/Z 4-ever]

You also save 40% on 1 ticket if you purchase it at Krogers or Blockbuster or online.

[King Bowser]

This is the type of thing that turned me away from going to winterfest cost of parking,cost to get into the park,cost to eat, and when you shop everything is too much money and overpriced...I much rather go to the cincinnati zoo instead it's cheaper and they have animals.

[Shman]

Yeah....but the zoo certainly doesn't have the high quality live shows, the unique train ride (with live entertainment) a wonderful Christmas Parade, a meet and greet with your kids favorite cartoon characters....in fact I think that the zoo cut all of their entertainment this year......shall I go on with all the stuff we actually have????

I know everyone is saying how overpriced the admission is.....and for one, I actually agree with it.....but when you really sit down and think about all the high quality stuff you can do at WinterFest, and how nice the park looks....and just the atmosphere in general. I think....yes it is overpriced.....but I still think it is all worth it!!

[WooferBearATL]

The whole key is that it has to be priced appropriately.

Until now, it has not been priced appropriately to make the event the success that it should be.

[Erosarrow05]

Who says it hasnt been priced appropriately? and furthermore... what is an appropriate price?

[BoddaH1994]

Yeah....but the zoo certainly doesn't have the high quality live shows, the unique train ride (with live entertainment) a wonderful Christmas Parade, a meet and greet with your kids favorite cartoon characters....in fact I think that the zoo cut all of their entertainment this year......shall I go on with all the stuff we actually have????

I know everyone is saying how overpriced the admission is.....and for one, I actually agree with it.....but when you really sit down and think about all the high quality stuff you can do at WinterFest, and how nice the park looks....and just the atmosphere in general. I think....yes it is overpriced.....but I still think it is all worth it!!

I'm going to level with you guys... I think that $25 is really expensive for the event. Now, anyone with half a brain can pay a lot less than that so it's not hard to get a good deal. I think $16.99 is a pretty fair price for the event. Even parking isn't bad. I mean, I challenge you to go to a Reds game or a Bengals game and get parking cheaper than that (on the Ohio side). I mean, if you start nickel and diming how much it's going to cost, PKI is always going to loose in your eyes, but if you just think of it as a big family night out (as I think it's intended to be) it's really not too bad.

I mean for an average family, it would be nothing to drop several hundred dollars in a day at the park during the season. So $100 for a family to do their business is logically a good rate. But once again, if you're looking for value entertainment, go to the 2nd run movie theatre, Winterfest isn't that. It's not cheap, it's cold, and for a lot of us it's a long drive. Now, counter that with the fact that the park looks amazing, the shows are some of the best ever, the atmosphere is fantastic, and the food is to die for, then decide what you want to do.

[WooferBearATL]

Who says it hasnt been priced appropriately? and furthermore... what is an appropriate price?

Based upon reported attendance - I think that the market has spoken pretty loud and clear.

[Erosarrow05]

That was well put. I wonder what the percentage of people who attend the event actually purchase tickets at the gate. I guess the one positive thing that we all can pretty much agree on (with the exception of sinking titanic) is that the only thing that people have really been commenting on is that the price is a little high... which obviously has been adjusted. From what I've heard from people that have already gone, they have enjoyed it. To bad PKI is having a snow day.... oh well

[Erosarrow05]

Could you point me to the reported attendance figures???

speaking of which

does anyone know what is considered good / avg / poor attendance figures for the event.... ? or what the 'sellout' number is?

[BoddaH1994]

^ I don't have any actual numbers, but based on the PKI I know, a sellout would be wall to wall people.

[Shman]

Based upon reported attendance - I think that the market has spoken pretty loud and clear

But so then you would have to say the same thing for both the Zoo and the Beach Waterpark......because they have both reported very low attendence numbers so far this year as well.

Trust me....when it comes to the numbers PKI is not the only Winter attraction that is having a very slow start this year.

[Delirium_Guy]

^ I don't have any actual numbers, but based on the PKI I know, a sellout would be wall to wall people.

I have a very close friend who is a location manager for the Park. I'm not saying these are the facts, just what was relayed over to me. For example, opening night, the Park was anticipating 11,000 people. They had a turn out of about 3000. Thats quite a dramatic difference. Then on that Sunday, they were expecting another large crowd such as that.......less than 500 people showed up and the Park closed early.

The event is tremendously over priced, it really is. I did visit this past weekend and had a great time. It *is* a quality product. It definitely needs more lights though, personally I thought there was a lack of lights. In any event, the pricing needs to be a bit more attractive to people......at least the first year. Get them through the gates to *see* what they are paying for. As it is now, even with the new pricing packages, I just don't see that as being the answer they were hoping for. Guess we'll see. I'm told that they won't let Gold Pass Holders in for free because they basically look as them as free loaders. I think thats a crock. Just because I'm not paying admission into the Park, doesn't mean I'm not going to spend money there. I think they'd be surprised at the number of people who would be shopping, eating and all that other fun stuff. Maybe at least a discount for pass holders?

[loganrun]

Yes even with the packages I feel its not enough to boost the attendance.

People still look at the Price. and unfortunately Kings Island has alienated there season pass holders with no discounts etc for Winterfest.

Yes this Winterfest is awseome I think they did great with the exception of the expensive sit down dinners and then the lack of lights. Yes bigger than old winterfest but more lights are needed , and or lower the price maybe.

Hope they keep winterfest going this time around:

[deidre1976]

Gold pass holders CHECK YOUR EMAIL, You never know what you will find.

[WooferBearATL]

I really think that a lot of the damage has been done for this year.

I can't see even the brightest marketing manager turning things around for this year.

I think that they're really going to have to buckle down in the off season and figure out what they can do to get the marketing aspect correct.

They've done the work with the preparation of the park but the simple execution has failed at every level.

The park should be "using" their season pass holders. Use Use Use them. - Hell, at this time they should be allowing Season Pass holders in as part of their pass. They should be allowing Season Pass holders to bring guests in at half price. Bill it as "A Very Merry Christmas Gift to Our Season Pass Holders." Season Pass Holders are one of the best publicities for an event like this. The solution is not to exclude them but bring them in and make them your word of mouth advertising.

The charge for parking should be gone. It should be gone as of today. The park has proved that this money that they are charging is not going towards clearing lots. This was proved yesterday. And it's not like trams are being run.

Tickets for shows and meals should be gone. The whole ticket thing creates an air that you have to schedule and prepare for everything at Winterfest. It does not lend to a relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere. Meal prices should be dropped. I worked food service, I know how much items cost to prepare. It does not cost $14 to put together and serve a turkey dinner. It simply does not.

The marketing and advertising team needs to be beating down the doors of every major corporation in town. They should be offering up packages that companies can award to employees at Holiday Dinners and Parties.

Top it off, you turn away one of the largest companies in the United States for their Holiday Party. Bad Bad Bad Business.

If attendance is what has been reported on here - the management should be in crisis and salvage mode. It really is no excuse to say "Yeah, but look at other events." If you say that, it's admitting that those "other events" are a kin and as good as Winterfest. If those other events are "as good" then why have a Winterfest at all.

[Erosarrow05]

Well while you may be trying to be realistic - I think you are being a little, dramatic in your analysis of Winterfest.

I think we can all agree that the best word to describe marketing for the event would be "late". In dayton we dont get that many PKI commercials, but the ones we did get in mid october only talked about FF. To be honest I dont remember seeing any WF spots on TV until about a week before WF opened. With that being said... Since then however, there have been 'more than average' amounts of commercials on dayton TV for the event. The posters in the Krogers arrived the same time as the commercials. I know the PPS survey on WF asks rather specifically about marketing so I think they have an idea.

Using the word 'salvage' makes it sound like all hope is lost. I can tell you that hope is far... far... far from lost. We are in the second week in December perhaps this weekend will start the big influx of guests. Only time will tell. I think that is a little presumptuous to judge success or lack there of with only a few weekends under the belt.

Of course its a lot easier to judge things in hindsight, and PKI has given the SP holders the ability to get the half off tickets which is a good step. But the back of the season pass had said that it was not valid for winterfest since day one. I would anticipate some sort of deal with the passholders for next season.

Im going to disagree - Tickets for the shows are a good idea - it ensures that people wont get turned away at the door - assuming the park was crowded. Tickets for meals, why not? Buy it online and have your meal taken care of before you get there. Doesnt really seem like a big deal to me.

You have no idea if they turned GE away. I doubt there are few winter events in the area that could handle a GE party. So dont act like you know that the GE big wigs were SO angry at pki they decided to never come back. You and I both know that isnt the case, and we both know PKI has already made it up to them. (And please dont use that stupid quote feature to quote what i say, and then say, "i didnt say that"... because i know)

This salvage thing.... there is NO way they are in salvage mode. I just cannot believe it. Its been open for 6 days of 22. its not even half over. Of cousre, i may be eating my words, but I think everything is going to be A ok at good ole' winterfest. The marketing folks are coming up with deals to get people in the park - but they do that in the summer . I see this as no different than the normal summer season. Go to kroger, wendys places liket hat and you can get discount stuff... Of course now its only at krogers but krogers are everywhere.

Lastly - Woofer, the one thing you have never addressed is.... THE GREAT BEAR LODGE.... I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar that there will be some serious holiday packages between the two - fearfest/winterfest. We all know that the indoor waterparks are extremely popular and they draw lots of customers in the winter. With the two locations so close to each other, it only makes sense to use each other to get business. So while a lot of people complain about the price etc. And how "if they cant do it right, dont do it at all"... well, a. i think it has been done right, i think its great.... but b. i think they are looking toward the future... Get the word out this year about winterfest and next year start marketing the overnight weekend holiday getaway between the hotel and pki. Sounds like a great deal that i would probably attend.

Oh well. thats all i have... im off to study for....

Pharmacotherapeutics

[WooferBearATL]

Erosarrow05, I'm just gonna hold off until January to tell ya I told ya so.

<G>

[Browntggrr]

If everything was great for WinterFest, why would PKI make changes to the admission prices and give discounts? Obviously PKI's attendence expectations have not been met because they would have no motivation to change anything if people were coming through the gate.

[Erosarrow05]

Ill be here eagerly anticipating the arrival of my "i told 'ya' so" ... *rolls eyes*

Heres to wintefest 06

[PKI Foodguy]

Wooferbear, you made a lot of good points...I wouldn't say PKI is salvage mode quite yet, but I can vouche for the fact that they are definatly in cost control mode, lol. But I definately agree with almost everything you said. It sad to think of all the hard work that was put into this event and to see is being missed out on by so many people, because somebody dropped the ball. I do have faith that the park will get things together and here's to WFest '06!

[PKIVortex]

I went to Winterfest tonight. The park had a really good crowed. Now that could have been from people who were going to visit on Friday also came today, but with as cold as it was, alot of people where there.

I think something else we are not looking at here either is, our economy is not in a very good spot again right now. I work in retail and our sales the last couple of weeks have been down. I just think people are not spending as much money right now. I do though agree that the cost of Winterfest is a little high, but I also remember the first Fearfest and the cost being steap for that too. I even had to pay to attend the first Fearfest and I worked at PKI. I think this year is more of a trial and error period for Winterfest, whatever didn't work this year, they will fix and it will be even better next.

[Captain Picard]

It's sad to think of all the hard work and money that was put into this event. It should have been put into repair and maintenance. They don't seem to have the money to fix things that have been in need of fixing for years. Taking on Winterfest and not doing what needs to be done is just running the park on into the ground more than they have already.

If you think a 404 room lodge is going to make Winterfest work you need to check your math. If everyone that stayed in it went it wouldn't be that many people.

As we all know when things don't work out for them the money stops flowing.

[CoastersRZ]

And what things have needed fixing for years? How is taking on WinterFest while not fixing the things that need to be fixed running the park into the ground? The park is running WinterFest to try and make even more money. Maybe then they will have the funds to fix the "things" that you speak of. Overall, I think PKI keeps the park very well maintained. Granted they let some of the theming waste away, and they could improve on that aspect. But as a whole they do a great job. They have to be doing something right if they are continually ranked the top, or close to the top in attendance at seasonal theme parks.

[Captain Picard]

Sob and TR could use some work and IJ is not fully functional. Lost money and effort in Winterfest should have been put into them. Not doing so is running it in the ground. I bet it will show when they open for 06.

They can't get the rides open with the park and they take on more with Winterfest.

They will not be continually ranked the top if they keep going this way IMO.

[WooferBearATL]

Winterfest should be an absolute license to print money. It always has been.

It's a real task to lose money on this event.

I hope that the park is not doing so.

[JPButler365]

WooferBearATL you stated that its a real task to lose money on WinterFest. Actually the complete opposite is true. The park has never made money on Winterfest and that is the main reason why Paramount canceled it when they purchases the park. It was popular with the public but it never made money bacause of the high prices and lack of entertaining things to do there.The unperdictable winters in Cincinnati have always been a problem too. I do have to say that the Festhaus is a huge disappointment this Winterfest season. I worked there during the original Winterfest and it was packed. Wall to wall people. There was a live show in the Festhaus then. During the showtimes you could not get a seat in the place and there were twice as many tables in the Festhaus at that time. We use to have the garbage crew that worked in food service that would wait in the hallway next to the restrooms after each show. After it ended and all the people would empty out of the Festhaus we would take huge rolling tash cans out and clear off all the tables for the lines of people that would be waiting for a table to sit down and eat. The food service lines were out the door. The executives were always in the Festhaus timing our food lines to make sure that the guests got there food and were seated in 10 minutes or less. It was a lot of fun to challenge ourselves. It is nothing like that this year. The live entertainment in the Festhaus is a huge flop. I am sure PKI management is kicking itself for missing the boat on another huge opportunity. The park did not expect to make money this year. Thay have invested millions of dollars into buying all the equipment needed to bring the event back. I am sure that they are hoping to make that the losses are not as huge next year. I looks at Winterfest as a way for PKI to get some additional attendance numbers to claim that they beat Cedar Point. Everyone know that Cedar Point is by far a much better amusement park. A 500 foot roller coster is on the way for them. When will it ever end? The Beast still rocks though after all these years.

[WooferBearATL]

I disagree about not making money.

I've been around since the first Winterfest. I worked at least 4 of them. From the opening year, Winterfest had never lost money. (How do I know this, well being involved in the management team helped.)

And top it off, it made money and was open more days.

[JPButler365]

I know several current and former executives and they told me something totally different. They informed me that Winterfest does not make any money. This is one reason that they wanted everyone to pay for addmission to the park including season pass holders. If Winterfest is such a cash cow why would Paramount ever cancel it? They brought back Winterfest more for PR reasons than anything else. The public may have kept asking "When are you going to bring back Winterfest?" but they did not want this version of it. It is too expensive for Winterfest just like it is too expensive during the summer season. Cedar Point has found out the hard way that you can price yourself out of the market and that is why they lowered the prices for next summer. Paramounts Kings Island will reluctantly announce prices changes for next year as well. The VP has stated that they did not want to announce price changes because it would "*******ize the Paramount name and the product" but they will not have a coice if the attendance numbers are down. Has anyone thought about the people that have already prepaid for tickets to Winterfest and now they are offering them buy one get one free. I am sure that has ****ed a lot of the people that were told that they were getting the best price of $16.99 buy pre ordering tickets online or at the park before the start of Winterfest. This is another Marketing nightmare and another reason to make people angry and feel like they are getting ripped off which is exactly the case if you are paying any price other than $12.99 per ticet to Winterfest.

[WooferBearATL]

It has always been Paramount's opinion that Winterfest did not make money.

The numbers and the figures that I had seen while working at the park completly proved to the contrary.

We will see how things go down in the future.