Great wolf lodge

[Guest faceoff]

Who thinks the great wolf lodge will take a noticeable amount of business away

from other hotels in the area during the 2007 season?

[DevilMayChew]

sure because its new, and you just know they are gonna run a special opening special right? exactly for that reason, to fill it up

[Enchanted Voyager]

It should, the hotels around the park have nothing like that in them.

[WooferBearATL]

It'll have little or no affect on the surrounding hotels.

Great Wolf is more of a destination/location hotel. There are no hotels around it that would be that kind of draw.

Think of it this way, someone that is normally gonna stay at Days Inn is not going to all of a sudden decide to do an overnight at Great Wolf lodge.

[CoastersRZ]

Right. But there will be some families that would have stayed at other hotels in the area that will decide to "upgrade" to the new resort. While you are correct in saying it will not likely have a big impact on other area hotels, I think it could affect some of the more upscale hotels. If a family has a choice between an upscale hotel and the resort which includes a waterpark for the kids when not at the park, it makes sense that the family would choose the resort. That being said, based on the rates at the Great Wolf Lodge, as you stated, it will likely have little or no affect on the occupancy of the majority of the hotels in the area.

[italianchef]

I think it'll take business away from the expensive hotels - and have NO affect upon the cheaper hotels - which are the majority.

Have a great day!

Italian Chef

[Enchanted Voyager]

Are we saying taking away business from Hotels or Motels? There is a difference.

[CoastersRZ]

Hotels, and upscale hotels at that. It will likely not impact hotels such as the run of the mill hotels like Holiday Inn Express and such. But it will likely have an impact on the full scale Marriott an exit south on 71.

[BoddaH1994]

I'm still weary about the entire project. Does PKI really draw enough "out of towners" to fill the hotel? Is having a destination hotel so far away from downtown a successful business venture? Only time will tell.

[gburn07]

Heck, I'm an 'out of towner' and can't wait to return this year.... sucks that I'm goin with my friends to the park for a few days and we dont have enough $$ to stay there

[CoastersRZ]

BoddaH1994, you bring up some very good points. Especially with gas prices as high as they are, PKI might be pulling less from the surrounding demographics as they have in years past. Additionally, locals that normally vacation to other places like Florida, or the ever popular Myrtle Beach maybe staying around Cincinnati. Could these people be the ones who will fill the hotel up? It will certainly be interesting to see how the new resort is received and how successful it is. For the amount of money it is costing to build it, and for PKI`s sake, I hope it is a success.

[jzarley]

I think the number of conventions/conferences that GWL hosts will also have a lot to do with the affect on local motels/hotels. If they host some frequent and sizable meetings, it will actually be a good thing for the other local properties (especially the lower cost lodging options...)

[ohioamusementparkzrule]

It really looks out of place a little bit. You dont see that much stuff around it, there is a McDonalds, Movie Theater and of Coarse PKI. But the one that I went to in Sandusky had places all over the place next to it. There were resteraunts and stuff to do pretty much next door to GWL.

[WooferBearATL]

Well that's because it's much more built up in general around Cedar Point. Remember that only about 34 years ago there was nothing where where Kings Island is.

Besides, at a Lodge Themed Hotel it seems a little better to not have civilization right next to it.

[jlopez]

I really dont think it will have a big effect on any surrounding hotels. Just because they are so much cheaper than what the great wolf lodge will cost. --jenni

[ohioamusementparkzrule]

I dont like the indoor water parks.. Ive been to the one by CP and its hot and humid and really just isnt all that fun. Id rather go to the beach waterpark or Boomerang Bay.

[gburn07]

I sure know on a sunny day which water park you will find me at.... well pretty much anything OUTDOORS

[dionmarx]

I think that weekends will be busy year round, but during the summer, most will be at CD's. Other hotels/motels will not suffer, as there are more people that cannot afford $200+ per night. We are not coming back to stay for more that 1 day until the CG gets rebuilt, PKD and Carowinds here we come...(Check out the new CG at Carowinds)

RJK

[Thrill_Biscuit]

The smaller hotels/motels surrounding the gigantic Gaylord Opryland Resort in Nashville seem to be holding up well, although the amusement park is now gone and has been replaced by a shopping mall (sad).

[gburn07]

sorry but whats cg? lol

[Enchanted Voyager]

I think ths place will do pretty good. Remember when the Holidome was put in, that place got some good business and all they had was putt-putt, pool, and a play area. This place is going to be real classy, and it's gonna have all the bells and whistles. I think it will do very well in th long run.

[italianchef]

The high gas prices will not benefit the Great Wolf Lodge nor any other business. It seems that all of society suffers with these outrageous prices - expcept for the oil executives of course. They are swimming in record profits at the expense of the rest of the counrty.

The high gas prices may likely keep away travelers from far away and even some conventions. However, the high gas prices may influence people in the nearby market to stay at The Great Wolf Lodge because it's cheaper than driving far away to a place like Sandusky.

My wife won a $100 gift certificate to the Hyatt and we were planning a 3-day vacation in Indianapolis. We were going to stay one night in the Hyatt and one night at a cheaper hotel or motel. With this gas prices so high, we have decided to take a 2-day trip to Lexington instead. The gas prices are hurting our budget just like more than 70% of Americans.

So, people like us will likely take mini-vacations at the Great Wolf Lodge.

Have a great day!

Italian Chef

[BoddaH1994]

The high gas prices will not benefit the Great Wolf Lodge nor any other business. It seems that all of society suffers with these outrageous prices - expcept for the oil executives of course. They are swimming in record profits at the expense of the rest of the counrty.

The high gas prices may likely keep away travelers from far away and even some conventions. However, the high gas prices may influence people in the nearby market to stay at The Great Wolf Lodge because it's cheaper than driving far away to a place like Sandusky.

My wife won a $100 gift certificate to the Hyatt and we were planning a 3-day vacation in Indianapolis. We were going to stay one night in the Hyatt and one night at a cheaper hotel or motel. With this gas prices so high, we have decided to take a 2-day trip to Lexington instead. The gas prices are hurting our budget just like more than 70% of Americans.

So, people like us will likely take mini-vacations at the Great Wolf Lodge.

Have a great day!

Italian Chef

Yes and no. Gas prices do hurt the overall economy but PKI theoretically could profit from it because people within a few hundred mile radius might decide to go to PKI instead of other desinations like Florida. Of course, it does hurt that people from farther away may have that same mentality.

A 2 day vacation to Lexington? Sounds lame.. even for you, Charles.

[jzarley]

A 2 day vacation to Lexington?  Sounds lame.. even for you, Charles. 

Actually...I was wondering if Lexington was really that much of a shorter drive than to Indy

[italianchef]

A 2 day vacation to Lexington?  Sounds lame.. even for you, Charles.  

Actually...I was wondering if Lexington was really that much of a shorter drive than to Indy

I live in Ft. Thomas. It's a 1.5 hour drive to Lexington and a 3 hour drive to Indianapolis. Hence the gas cost is double.

[dionmarx]

©Camp(G)ground

RJK

[The Interpreter]

Three things of interest...first Great Wolf's quarterly earnings press release, where much can be learned, and PKI's adjacent Great Wolf is stressed (and compare the size of its entertainment area to the others...it's gonna be huge):

http://sev.prnewswire.com/leisure-travel-h...03052006-1.html

A Cinci Enquirer article about the forthcoming opening this fall:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../605050367/1076

And a general article about Great Wolf and commerical property potential:

http://www.cpnonline.com/cpn/property_type...t_id=1002465036

[jzarley]

Great Wolf is one of the conference calls I always try to listen to during quarterly earnings. The three key metrics that guide the hotel industry (occupancy, ADR, and RevPAR) have all fallen with their comp. properties from 2005 to 2006. That's got to be a little concerning to them.

The declining results combined with the shareholder lawsuit has to be putting some stress on senior management. I think GWL would be a great acquisition target for someone...maybe Blackstone (who has been buying hotel chains left and right), or one of the other big operators (Hilton, Starwood, Marriott, Accor, etc.)

[Snake Attack!]

might someone buy paramount and great wolf lodge in one big swoop

[jzarley]

You know, if I was Cedar Fair and looking to make an acquisition, something like GWL would look a lot more attractive to me than Paramount Parks would... It's a year-round business in a (somewhat) more resiliant sector of the industry, and the acquisition costs would be considerably lower. Plus, CF has already made pretty sizable investments, and has significant experience in the hotel business.

They could rebrand the properties around a "Knotts Berry Farm" theme (the GWLs already have that Adirondack "Camp Snoopy" look anyway...)