What New Attraction Can We Expect From Cedar Fair

[RailRider]

I know some people think that Cedar Fair may not invest greatly in Kings Island ride wise or that they just spend the majority of their money on Cedar Point. But here is what Cedar Fair has installed at their other parks in recent years. I would personally take any of these coasters at Kings Island.

Coasters

Patriot

Mamba

Silver Bullet

Xcelerator

Hydra

Steel Force

Talon

Renegade

Steel Venom

Wild Thing

Shivering Timbers

Spinning Dragons

Other Rides

Meteor

Screaming Swing

Power Tower

Detonator

ThunderHawk

Supreme Scream

I personnaly would love to see any of these additions at KI. If Cedar Fairs past record is any sign of the future I am very excited just to see what kind of rides KI and other former Paramount Parks will receive.

Should be good times ahead, especially factoring in everything else that Cedar Fair brings to the table.

[The Interpreter]

Remember, though, that in the past Cedar Fair was not approximately $2 billion in debt, plus Cedar Point, in particular, had competition from two (and not too long ago, three) other parks owned by major park chains in the same state.

[RailRider]

Right, they are in debt, but they also have more cash flow and income now because they basically doubled in size. Also every ride listed was from a park besides Cedar Point, showing that while in competition with other parks and other companies Cedar Fair still focused on their other parks and Cedar Point at the same time.

I am not saying that Cedar Fair will implement the Six Flags strategy and build a new coaster every year at all of their parks and then 10 years down the road will be almost bankrupt. Instead Cedar Fair will continue their strategy of improving every park every year, everything from minor repairs and beautification to new attractions. Just because Cedar Fair has more debt doesn't mean they will stop doing what they know best and I think the list of recent additions is a good sign of what to come in the future.

[CoastersRZ]

Yes. Just because they are in debt does not mean that they will stop spending money on the parks. If they were to do that, attendance at the parks would likely remain flat or fall. As a result, they would generate less income, to help pay off the debt. Even though Cedar Fair now has three parks in Ohio, a lot of the guests that come to Kings Island are season pass holders. As a result, one could imagine that Cedar Fair would want to give them reasons to renew their passes year after year so they continue to contribute to the per capita spending at the park.

[KIBeast]

Whatever Cedar Fair Entertainment decides, I believe that they are going to stick with the strategy already in place set by Paramount. Although, I think we can expect a new, thrilling coaster a lot sooner than Paramount had planned on.

[The Interpreter]

Whatever Cedar Fair Entertainment decides, I believe that they are going to stick with the strategy already in place set by Paramount. Although, I think we can expect a new, thrilling coaster a lot sooner than Paramount had planned on.

Hmmmm. I don't believe the old Paramount strategy included a new thrilling coaster for Kings Island....ever. They were definitely headed down the family ride road. I think they felt burnt after the last new, thrilling coaster installation....it was called Son of Beast.

[CoastersRZ]

Well, if recent trends at Cedar Fair hold true, it will only be a matter of time before we get that next big roller coaster like a B&M or Intamin creation. It will certainly be an interesting couple of years in the future. Come 2010, how will the park be different?

Yes, Paramount was a little gunshy after the disaster that has become Son of Beast. Even this year, six years after the ride opened, they are dealing with headaches from this ride. I`m sure that they wish they would have gotten a wooden coaster that has received good reviews like The Legend or a steel coaster like Millenium Force, both of which opened the same year. While Italian Job is a fun family ride, it is by no means, a high thrill ride like rides like Face Off, Drop Zone, or Flight of Fear.

I`ve heard that they still had plans for a thrilling coaster at KI, but that it was going to be a while before it appeared in the park. The niche that PKI has carved for itself catering to the family market has been successful. However, with the success they`ve had with FearFest, you would have thought that they would have realized that teens and the adult market can still bring in money to justify spending money for a major roller coaster.

[Gordon Bombay]

Well put RZ, I'm sure the park did plan to add a major coaster in the future while still maintaining their "fun for families, something for everyon focus" as opposed to CP and SFMM who dropped major coasters in just about every year or other year and didnt really see any attendance increases or ticket sale spikes. PKI realized family oriented marketing and spending was the way to go to make the park profitable. I definently think that a major coaster would've come to the park eventually, well maybe not under CBS, but definently under viacom, they're staples of parks that can not be ignored.

[DeLorean Rider]

Actually Michigans adventure put Shivering timbers in before Cedar Fair bought the park. Mamba was put in in 1998 and Cedar Fair didnt buy the park untill spring of 2004 which means the park had already decided to put in spinning dragons before Cedar Fair bought them, since the ride opened in spring of 2004. Steel Venom was called Superman Ultimate excape and was put in back when the park was Six Flags Ohio(before six flags worlds of adventure).

[CoastersNSich]

Actually Michigans adventure put Shivering timbers in before Cedar Fair bought the park. Mamba was put in in 1998 and Cedar Fair didnt buy the park untill spring of 2004 which means the park had already decided to put in spinning dragons before Cedar Fair bought them, since the ride opened in spring of 2004. Steel Venom was called Superman Ultimate excape and was put in back when the park was Six Flags Ohio(before six flags worlds of adventure).

I think you're confusing three different parks. Cedar Fair acquired:

• Worlds of Fun in 1995
• Michigan's Adventure in 2001
• and Geauga Lake in 2004,

so Spinning Dragons and Mamba were installed at WOF AFTER Cedar Fair took over. You are correct, though, about Shivering Timbers at MA, and on Superman/Steel Venom.

[RailRider]

I was not referring to Superman Ultimate Escape as Steel Venom, but as the Twisted Impulse coaster like Wicked Twister built at Valley Fair in 2003 known as Steel Venom. Cedar Fair later renamed SUE as Steel Venom when they bought Gueaga Lake.

[TheBEASTFreak]

Yes. Just because they are in debt does not mean that they will stop spending money on the parks. If they were to do that, attendance at the parks would likely remain flat or fall. As a result, they would generate less income, to help pay off the debt. Even though Cedar Fair now has three parks in Ohio, a lot of the guests that come to Kings Island are season pass holders. As a result, one could imagine that Cedar Fair would want to give them reasons to renew their passes year after year so they continue to contribute to the per capita spending at the park.

Would the debt nessicarily mean that some of the parks such as KI could be closed down or worse?

[The Interpreter]

That is very, very unlikely. If worst came to absolute worst, the company would declare bankruptcy and the bankruptcy trustee would possibly sell the parks at auction. Ownership might change, but there is virtually no possibility that Kings Island would close. I can't necessarily say that about Geauga Lake, though. . . .

[RailRider]

GL just needs to shrink its footprint. I remember the first year it was SFWoA. It was honestly a bit overwhelming trying to see everything in the park. That place is huge right now and just cant support the footprint. I would look for lots and lots of consolidation of the entire park so it has a more compact footprint.

I doubt GL will close in the future, because it is a very beautiful park and location, but nothing is ever certain.

[WooferBearATL]

I could see GL and KD being sold in the future. Interp feels that it's CW that's going to be sold but I think that they'll hold onto CW.

[CoastersRZ]

Well, as long as the parks are making money, I doubt that they will be selling any soon. Besides, its not exactly a seller`s market at the moment for amusement parks. Yes, they would be able to pay off a chunk of their debt if they sold a park or two, but then when their debt was terminated, they would be lacking the extra income that those park(s) brought in.

[AamieAndShawn]

Whatever Cedar Fair Entertainment decides, I believe that they are going to stick with the strategy already in place set by Paramount. Although, I think we can expect a new, thrilling coaster a lot sooner than Paramount had planned on.

Ya but why do I feel like were going to be treated like the redheaded step child of CF?

[KI-ORIG-EMP]

I do not see CF not investing in a major ride at Kings Island or any other Paramount park that drew 3 million plus guests each year. In a major ride I mean a record breaking steel or wood coaster. Just like when the NY Yankees buys a ball player they can see a return in investment by the increased season ticket holders and regular ticket holders. I think that a major ride would be a big draw in increasing attendence and I do not see it hurting Cedar Point, the flag ship of the chain. I think we would hear something by or during the fall as to what major rides might be planned. It takes a couple years in advance as to the type ride to add. I think that great things are in order for Kings Island in the next couple of years.

Mike

[Gordon Bombay]

it is a very beautiful park and location

condos are usually built with beautiful location in mind too.

[CoastersRZ]

Ya but why do I feel like were going to be treated like the redheaded step child of CF?

Why do you think that? I believe that Cedar Fair is well aware of the money and visitors that KI brings in. They are not just going to sit idle and not continue to invest in Kings Island. Sure, Cedar Point will still likely get the record breaking coasters. But it is only about a five hour drive from Cincinnati. And besides, as I stated earlier, I doubt that Cedar Fair will sit idle with KI and not invest in the park. If they were to do that, people would not have a reason to make return visits and spend money inside the park.

I mean, look at all the existing Cedar Fair parks that have been in the company for several years. With the exception of Geauga Lake, and to a lesser extent Michigan`s Adventure, all their properties have received some sort of signature attraction. Cedar Fair seems to be pretty fair about spreading the capital expenditures around, especially to parks that have been bringing in money. Which from the last conference call, the Paramount Parks per capita spending was doing quite well.

[The Interpreter]

I agree...but think that you will see far fewer record breaking coasters anywhere in North America for a few years now. Everything goes in cycles, and the two major players that installed record breaking coasters are both somewhat financially strapped and aiming themselves at other target markets for now. Ironically, to some extent, you can blame this on Top Thrill Dragster, Kingda Ka, Hypersonic XLC and Son of Beast.

[fryler87]

Remember, though, that in the past Cedar Fair was not approximately $2 billion in debt, plus Cedar Point, in particular, had competition from two (and not too long ago, three) other parks owned by major park chains in the same state.

Nearly of CF's debt is good debt, and most (to my knowledge) of SF's debt is bad debt. This why SF is in a financial debacle.

[RailRider]

I am just amazed at how people still throw out the idea that because Cedar Fair has a considerable amount of debt that they will not make additions to their parks because of this debt load. The parks are still profitable, actually very profitable, and yes the debt is considered good debt because it was taken on because of a large acquisition. WallStreet still looks favorably upon Cedar Fair and also there is a great opportunity for poetential because of the size of the company. SixFlags has parks that are loosing money, that have high debt loads, and are hurting from bad deals. (like their purchase of SeaWorld of Ohio and then sale of the entire property for far less than what they had put in to SFWOA)

Companies must incur debt to grow, because very few have enough cash liquid to pay for expansions, so eventhough Cedar Fair has a debt load, they will continue to improve their parks and payoff their debt in time.

It makes no sense to make that kind of purchase and then do nothing with those parks

[The Interpreter]

I, for one, am not suggesting they won't make additions. They will and they must. But the days of record breaking additions to nearly every park year after year are over...at least for a while...

[KIfan73]

I think KI is like a good classic car. Its got plenty of horsepower, just needs a few odds and ends taken care of, and its gonna be a real stunner

[RailRider]

You know thats a very good description of KI. Unfortunately under Paramount Parks and especially CBS the underbody got a lot of rust built up. Hopefully Cedar Fair gives KI a good once over and some new paint.

[fryler87]

Unfortunately under Paramount Parks and especially CBS the underbody got a lot of rust built up. Hopefully Cedar Fair gives KI a good once over and some new paint.

Selling a car with a new coat of paint could prove slightly difficult if the buyer knows that the air conditioner failed in the middle of the summer...(SoB)

Six Flags parks: the equivalent of your classic 1984 Oldsmobile Cutlass with parts falling off and half the electrical systems not working...but hey! Look at those $2000 rims!!!

[The Interpreter]

But....the park was sold and THEN less than two weeks later, the SOB incident occurred.

Just pointing that out. . . .

[WooferBearATL]

I think that Ohio still has Lemon Laws!

[RailRider]

Buyer Beware