TR: Holiday World 5-29-07

[UncleHenry]

Look at the end of the last e-mail. That was Paula of Holiday World. I used to really respect that park, but recent events have really brought it down in my eyes.

[BoddaH1994]

I think she got a little over-heated, but I don't blame her.

You basically said, "Hey, I have this video... it includes some of your employees being crude and shows a ride breaking down... will you post this on your web site?"

No doubt the employee was in the wrong, but you're not doing any justice to the park, or any park at that, by showcasing it. It's without a doubt that theme parks don't directly compete with eachother. If you listen to their conference calls, you'll notice that the parks compete for your discretionary money, which means they're competing with things such as movies, video games, etc etc etc. They're in the business of winning over your wants since all of the things mentioned aboe certainly aren't needs. When you defame one park, you're hurting the industry as a whole. Why would someone want to go to KI, Six Flags, Dollywood, etc if amusement park employees have a reputation for being rude? The general public does NOT distinguish between parks the way in which the rest of us do.

[UncleHenry]

Note in my original e-mail that I said I did NOT expect this to be posted in the HW blog. I knew it wouldn't be posted. Who would do that to their own park? But to post something that does the same thing, but WORSE to another park on the official website of a park is uncalled for. Sure, if I worked at KI, I would not post something that shows bad things about KI. BUT, I would also not post things that said anything bad about other parks. Marketing should be about promoting yourself, not bashing the downfalls of other parks.

EDIT: Boddah, by your own reasoning, it was unwise of her to post a report that flamed another park, because as you said, it's an industry as a whole.

[Delirium_Guy]

I can understand why Paula would be upset, but still it is what it is. HW seriously DOES need to wake up. There are issues to be had in the Park and its NOT the perfect place that they seem to think it is. I love the Park, I really do, but things have changed. I experienced something at Legend last season or the season before that. It was around 830PM, the Park closed at 9. Of course, HW is a park that doesn't leave their queues open until Park close. They tend to have the Park almost cleared out right AT close. Weird. Anyway, we ran down the hill to ride Legend at night. The gate was open, so we jumped in line. While we were in, an employee approached our two friends who weren't riding. They accused us of reopening the gate and pretty much threatened to have us ejected from the park. It was ridiculous. I left a complaint at GR but pretty much got the brush off. The excuse for the rudeness I got was, "Hey, its 90 degrees today, you'd be rude to". I emailed Paula that evening and received a prompt response. She more or less said the Park was still the same and that she understood there was a situation that occurred at Legend that night but didnt' have all the details. Again, they prided themselves on the polite employees. It was a horrible first impression for our two friends who had never been.

Like I said, I absolutely love the Park. Things have just changed and I don't think they've realized it. The employees aren't of the same caliber as they used to be. I agree that it was a tad unprofessional for Paula to post a link to that post that slammed KI.

- Todd

[CoastersNSich]

I know how the situation feels... nobody WANTS to be the guy that's saying that Holiday World has problems. It's almost "sacred" in the enthusiast community, and to be fair, just about all that great reputation was earned.

I've had a few BAD days at KI (or more accurate, PKI) in 2002, and some people I know didn't like me complaining about those bad incidents, because of the park's high status with enthusiasts. Complaining about Six Flags was A-OK, but NOT PKI! Some were fearful that enthusiasts, even at a careful and honest level, of complaining, would get the park to stop having events, goodies, and walkbacks. My hope is that rather than turning a blind eye to problems, they chose to listen.

The dirty half of guest feedback needs to be listened to just as much as, if not more than, the happy half. The community here has had negative feedback towards KI because they want it to be better. Cedar Point fans want their park to remain on tops of fun and service - if not, management has a lot to hear. Even Disney parks get loads of complaints - from their BIGGEST fans!! Hopefully HW can maintain a decent level of humility and not get too cocky. Personally, Paramount got a bit cocky with their parks, especially KI and its kids/family attractions. At least with Cedar Fair, I can say it's been balanced out some this season.

[thejoker8388]

I'd say there's no excuse for the response email that was sent. I understand that Paula is supposed to defend the park and represent the park in a good light, but her email does the exact opposite. You did state that it showed some bad things but you also stated how it was your favorite park and had two of your favorite coasters. As a PR person even if an email is rude and I can understand how she may have found it to be so, she should have said something like I wish you would have reported the employee, not "you don't like this park and are a bad person for showing this". I used to work fast food and had people say things to me that were 100 times rudder than what Brad's email could be considered and I was still 100 times politer than she was; which is sad to say because she's head of PR and I was a lowly drive through attendant.

I would be very, very interested to see the email and trip report posted on coasterbuzz. Despite the parks flaws I'm sure that the posts would be flammed as trolling and other stupid stuff like that because coasterbuzz people worship HW, but I'm still very interested to see what they'd say. There may actually be a few people who speak up and would give similar issues that they've experienced. Problem is the head moderator, Jeff whatever, is a pompus a**hole and would probably delete the entire thing and call it trolling. He does the same thing whenever anyone dares post something against CP, but readily allows complaints against SF or most other parks. That's the great thing about KICentral, the moderators are actually fair.

[Guest kwindshawne]

It could have been more tactful.

I stand by my original decision to not go there.

Especially at 3.50/gallon for gas-I can go to work and get the same treatment.

[Guest kwindshawne]

It could have been more tactful.

I stand by my original decision to not go there.

Especially at 3.50/gallon for gas-I can go to work and get the same treatment.

Or...let me correct myself...I can go to my full time job for that treatment.

[The Interpreter]

It was with great sadness that I earlier in this thread posted why I no longer find myself going to Holiday World. Things posted since then in this thread have done nothing to make me feel any happier about that decision. On the other hand, nothing posted has made me regret it, either.

I have DISCRETION where to spend my money and my time. I prefer to spend it where my business is appreciated and I am treated as an honored guest. As I said in my earlier posts, if this type of conduct continues in that park, attendance figures will tell the tale. Perhaps not this month or even year, but hard earned reputations can be lost.

Just ask Six Flags.

And once lost, they can be VERY hard to regain.

Again, just ask Six Flags.

[art_star]

I remember going to Holiday World years ago and loving the cheap food and free stuff, plus the great service. But even then, I thought there was very little to do there and the scenery is pretty bland IMO. I won't go back to Holiday World for that alone, especially if they lost some of what I used to like about it.

[UncleHenry]

Service used to be great, but over the past 3 years, it's just kept going downhill.

[Mikewhy]

Just to add to the discussion. I love both KI and HW and go to both parks 2-3 times at least every year. I must say that I have never had a bad trip to HW. I have always enjoyed my time there. They are very tough on safety and following the rules, and I do think that can lead to mistakes. But you know, I am GLAD that a park is actually trying to follow the rules and actually does care about guest safety. Holiday World is the only park I have been to where I always see the staff enforcing the rules. And it is refreshing to me. I am very sorry that some guests here have had a bad experience there and I do not doubt their reports. But I have always had a stellar guest experience, including the many times I went there in 2006. I find it hard to believe that the staff at HW is looking around anxious to falsely accuse folks. I will agree that some of Holiday World's staff have been more apathetic then friendly, but I find that to be the norm at KI and most other parks as well. I personally have always found Dollywood to be the friendliest park I have ever been to.

Now I love KI and I love it more than Holiday World as a whole. But I will tell you I have had many many visits to KI in the last 3 years where I have met less than friendly employees. I have been in the gift shops and have had to interrupt employees talking to each other in order to check out my items, and that was after waiting over 10 minutes quietly. And then they looked irritated. I have reported people smoking in the lines and the employees would either shrug or look irritated. True, I have not had any employees at KI yell at me or erroneously accuse me of bad behavior. But then again, I rarely ever see any workers at KI reprimanding anybody. It seems rules are rarely enforced when I am there. So of course there are no reports of people being chastised. I am not sure if that is a good thing however. We have already seen a major fight at The Beast that perhaps would have been less likely to happen if someone would patrol the queue lines to enforce rules.

I guess what I am trying to say is that some guests will always have some negative experiences at almost any park if you go there enough. Holiday World is a little overly militant about enforcing the rules, while KI, IMHO, is WAY too lax in enforcing anything. Both are problems that should be addressed. But I personally would prefer too much enforcement to too little.

Again, I prefer KI to Holiday World for many reasons and I love the park tremendously. But I do see more guest problems at KI caused by lack of rule enforcement that I see problems at Holiday World caused by too much enforcement or falsely accusing people of violating rules. I still happily visit both parks and will continue to do so.

[Gordon Bombay]

I like what you said Mikewhy and do agree witht he good majority of it, I wasn't trying to say that I prefer or feel the employees at KI are way above those at Holiday World, I've had a fair share of bad experiences with employees while visit both KI and CP but it was just dissapointing when a park like Holiday World is supposed to be known for having an amazingly friendly staff then fails to live up to what they promote. I dont see KI proclaiming on their brochures: "We won an award for best guest service, best in the nation! Golden Ticket Award for service, etc. etc." where as Holiday World does then fails to deliver.

[Mikewhy]

I have always found the Koch family to be amazing and friendly at Holiday World, and some of the employees in the gift shops and such to be really friendly. The rest of the employees seem average at best most of the time. So I see what you mean concerning living up to the Golden Ticket award. I DO think theyt deliver in terms of cleanliness however!

[DeMoN]

It failed to deliver while you were there, but that doesn't mean it fails to deliver on every visit. What I am disappointed most about is that now there are people wanting to cancel their trip to the park that have never been based on a couple of bad experiences. If I had a dollar for every bad thing I seen in any amusement park I would be a rich man by now. Let us keep in mind that Disney has been brought up as being one of the cleanest and friendliest parks in several threads also, the same park that has had many incidents with their staff that dress as disney characters (mind you Tigger beating some kid up). I thought the review seemed just fine of the park and you had a couple of bad experiences with a couple of employees which you stated. If an employee has a parent say that someone is taking pictures of kids in the waterpark, they are doing the right thing to question to be sure. The part that was wrong was asking to put the camera away and I totally agree there.

I have been to HW many times and have never had any problems there with employees or cleanliness, but that doesn't mean that everyone hasn't had a bad experience. Heck even the video I watched showed many good things throughout the park. As for the incident of the employee spitting I see this just about anywhere you go sometimes even worse than what was shown (mind you it was just as gross as the gentlemen who was playing with a piercing that was through their nose). The trash in a que line okay and I am sure someone will come by to clean that up. Don't let me begin with all the bubblegum on walls, rails, etc. I have seen at other parks. The fact of the matter is there will always be trash somewhere in every park, if you are expecting anything else I am curious of your motivations. Some guests don't throw trash away like they should and the park can not do anything about this other than have Garbage cans readily available to all guests and have crews going through to clean up. Holiday World never has claimed to have this huge amusement park and probably never will. Anyone that expected that should have visited the website before attending the park to get a little more information. They do have a collection of 3 awesome Rollercoasters.

I will say in all the parks I have visited I have never seen the owners out sweeping up garbage and readily available for you to speak to like Holiday World. I have had small bad experiences at every park I have gone to and Holiday World is no better or worse than Cedar Point and/or Kings Island. Kings Island is still my favorite park because I have been going there since I was too little to remember. It dropped off for a little while when Paramount had taken over and I took to Cedar Point a little better, but now I have already seen the changes taking place. Anyone who has not visited Holiday World should not change plans based off of any of this. It is a great park and your experience could greatly differ from anyone else who has posted on here. Set your expectations different than what some have set forth on Holiday World, it is not this huge amusement park and is still in a growth period. They will have their struggles trying to adjust to that growth but they have fine management in place.

Last but not least concerning the e-mail from the PR at Holiday World. The company I work for has to work with many out of state customers. You constantly have to send e-mails back and forth. Typing in an e-mail can come out several different ways. I didn't take that e-mail as anything snotty what-so-ever and I have seen some pretty bad ones. I would suggest if you feel that way you make a phone call to the person who sent that e-mail. Listening over the phone can offer a better perspective of what the person is conveying. I can type many different things in an e-mail, on this forum, or in a memo and it can be taken by 7 different people 7 different ways. Your best bet is to call. I agree with her in the sense that they are not perfect and they understand that, nobody is ever perfect. I also agree that if something bothered you, you should have reported it while you where there so it could be rectified. I agree in her comment that you should let them fix things by letting them know when things happen. They can not fix what they don't know is happening. If the owners of HW were standing next to the gentlemen spitting, I think they would have taken action. If they didn't I would think they would certainly deserve to be bashed for it. I do feel that many employees at parks do things against what the amusement park wants implemented. It is our responsibility as patrons their attention immediately after it happens so that it is rectified.

[DeMoN]

Mind you also that Holiday World has taken a stiff stance on obeying ride and park rules. Just a few years ago they had an rider killed on one of their RollerCoasters for basically unstrapping their restraint and standing up while riding their RollerCoaster. It was a tragedy that should have never happened. Their answer to it was to be enforce the rules more on rides and throughout the park to try and ensure everyones safety.

Hopefully I will see one of you on my visit to Kings Island in July and August.

[Browntggrr]

Let us keep in mind that Disney has been brought up as being one of the cleanest and friendliest parks in several threads also, the same park that has had many incidents with their staff that dress as disney characters (mind you Tigger beating some kid up).

Are you referring to the incident where the boy was grabbing Tigger's tail and Tigger swung around to stop the kid from doing it? Here is a video of it:

http://www.local6.com/news/10685989/detail.html

It looks to me that Tigger was losing his balance and turned around. Obviously not many other people thought it to be that bad of an issue since the charges were dropped:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252387,00.html

[DeMoN]

That was not the lone incident that has ever happened at a Disney. There have been other incidents, just like at other parks. My point being that every park has incidents including Disney. Kings Island and Cedar Point have had their fair share as well. Ask any employee at guest relations and they will tell you that complaints come in quite a bit everyday. Some are legit and others aren't but are still looked into.

[UncleHenry]

I know no park is perfect. We went there knowing that. The point of the video was to show the highlights of our day, even those that were not perfect. Just show what happened. Anyways, our trip to HW was canceled, and is now a CP trip. We're heading out tomorrow.

[Browntggrr]

That was not the lone incident that has ever happened at a Disney.

What I am disappointed most about is that now there are people wanting to cancel their trip to the park that have never been based on a couple of bad experiences. I thought the review seemed just fine of the park and you had a couple of bad experiences with a couple of employees which you stated.

It may not have been the lone incident at Disney, it was the one you mentioned.

Just like the lone incident at HW that you do not want others to judge.

[CoastersNSich]

I have reported people smoking in the lines and the employees would either shrug or look irritated.

(Mikewhy is talking about KI.) Last night, and a few other times, I'd walk by and see people smoking outside of designated areas, and there would be park employees in the area, especially security, turning a blind eye/

Overall, I've had positive experiences at Holiday World. Yes, I'll agree that a lot of the ride operators looked uninterested/sluggish, but not terrible. Probably my one real peeve with HW is one-train operations on moderately busy days, especially at The Legend.

And UncleHenry, I'll say if I can only go to one park before I die, and I had to choose between Holiday World and Cedar Point, it would be CP... more coasters, less hills to climb (more like none), and more efficient operations.

[DeMoN]

Browntggrr,

That is my point I don't want anyone to judge parks off of minor incidents and let their own experience at any park be the judge. I am in no way putting down any park including Disney. I actually think from reading the trip report originally posted they had a great time at the park. It unfortunately has turned into some people wanting to cancel their trip to a park with 3 great coasters over 1 persons bad experience with 2 park employees, another person video that happened to show an employee spit, and an e-mail that was taken offense to. I think that is a mistake, and I wouldn't want someone who hasn't been to my favorite park (Kings Island) to do that over the same type of thing. Many different people get many different experiences out of different parks.

UncleHenry,

I had no problem with your video, I thought it was a great video and highlighted the park. I do feel the comment about "Cleanest park my @$$" after 1 employee spit was a little unwarranted because that didn't actually make it a dirty park. I actually enjoyed the entire video especially watching you get the flying eagles ride going pretty well (miss that ride at Kings Island). I was just explaining that the e-mail you had could be interpreted in many different ways, I understand you took it in bad light and that is fine. If I were angry and had taken it that way, I would have called the PR dept. and spoke with the party involved. I don't agree with some of her comments or choices of words, but from a PR standpoint I can see where she comes from on some of it. In one section I took it as she was wanting you as a patron to help them and give them a chance to fix their error or the incident that happened while you were at the park by reporting it immediately. As I said they can't see everything every employee does every second of the day, nor can any park for that matter. In that case it is up to us as patrons, or other employees at the parks to report these issues. Otherwise they will continue until management catches them doing it .

[Browntggrr]

^ Yeah, your point is very clear.

There was an unfortunate incident at HW. You defended that by trying to bring up an incident at Disney where a guest tried making a very minor event into a media issue, your quote being "mind you Tigger beating some kid up" which was clearly not the case.

Attempting to justify the actions of an employee at one particlular park by over- sensitizing an event at another park is wrong. It gives others the false sense that it is ok for one park to do it because another park has had problems as well.

We all know that a park cannot have perfect employees, or for that matter, a park cannot control if an employee that is having a bad day. But it just seems that recently, there have been more incidents at HW than usual, and people are talking about it. If HW is going to claim to have the best employees for an amusement park, well enthusiasts are going to hold them to that standard. Just like with CP claiming to be the best park running for the last 9 years. Enthusiasts are going to hold them to that standard and be more critical when they don't see it. I do that with CP as well as KI.

It just seems that HW is happy with status-quo and not striving to be a better park. The e-mail response certainly gave that feeling. Even though they claim to have handled the situation, the comment questioning if someone loves the park or not is uncalled for. Just because I love a park does not mean I will always have a perfect time there or turn a blind eye to an obvious situation that is not right.

Sorry I'm not that type of fanboy that HW is expecting.