Richard Kinzel: Market Will Thaw

[The Interpreter]

Quotes:

***Cedar Point is our crown jewel and always will be. This is our biggest entity. We have 1,400 hotel rooms....Our top season was 1994. We did 3.6 million (annual visitors). Now we do about 3 million....No other park has what we have -- Lake Erie, the beach, 1905, Knute Rockne, John Phillips Sousa, the history, the tradition. People have been coming here for years.***

Terpy comment: (He STILL sees FUN as Cedar Point...and himself as the spokesman)

About Shoot The Rapids:

***The engineering was done wrong in Germany. We're trying to correct it. And I got e-mail today from our manufacturer, Intamin, that the problem has been corrected. Hopefully it's done now, and it's going to be running correctly the rest of the summer.***

Terpy Comment: (GERMANY???)

About the debt:

***What our advisers are telling us is just to wait, just be patient. We still have until 2012, so we still have time .... We can be patient and we will be patient, because every interest point is a lot of money.***

Terpy comment: Debt covenants, Dick? What about those?

Lastly, I leave you with this gem...Dick speaking of Corkscrew:

***The other one was in 1976, when we put the Corkscrew, the first coaster that did a helix and the 360.***

The full interview is here:

http://www.sanduskyr...arket-will-thaw

[Jason B]

It is sad that all of the other CF parks have to live in the shadow of CP. I hope one of these days he does realize that they own more parks then just his crown jewel.

[The Interpreter]

I honestly think that when Mr. Richard Kinzel talks to the Sandusky Register, he thinks he is talking only to Sandusky locals and Cedar Point partisans. I believe he has no idea that others in other areas of the country can easily see it...He is of a different era, and I doubt sincerely he realizes his words are nearly instantaneously available across the world...

That article is also generating some interesting comments on the website.

[Jason B]

I honestly think that when Mr. Richard Kinzel talks to the Sandusky Register, he thinks he is talking only to Sandusky locals and Cedar Point partisans. I believe he has no idea that others in other areas of the country can easily see it...He is of a different era, and I doubt sincerely he realizes his words are nearly instantaneously available across the world...

Which is also kind of scary if you think about it.

[Diamondback96]

the Magnum XL 200

He can't even get the name of a coaster at CP right! (Of course, that could have been the editor)

[The Interpreter]

As I pointed out, don't forget the 'helix' and the '360' on 'the' Corkscrew.

I have absolutely no idea of what he means by this was the first coaster to do those things, either. It was the first coaster with three inversions, but that has nothing to do with what he said...

[Hank]

I am officially casting my vote for Terpy to take over the reigns from Mr. Kinzel! (if he wants it)

....Hank, just sayin'

[The Interpreter]

Well, that would certainly cause Al Weber to faint! I have a better idea...and he's available, too. I think he's currently a director for Live Nation and Frontier Communications (which just bought Verizon's landlines in a number of states):

http://www.marketwat...nk=MW_news_stmp

But would the Board support such a move...that's the Q.

[markr]

It is sad that all of the other CF parks have to live in the shadow of CP. I hope one of these days he does realize that they own more parks then just his crown jewel.

Lets look at the evidence: Diamondback and Firehawk ( KI ), Bohemeth ( Canada's Wonderland ) Dominator and I-305 ( KD ) and Intimidator ( Carowinds.) Plus the total refurbishment of Rivertown, bringing back the great live entertainment that the old KI was known for. Plus the fact that CP hasn't had a new coaster since 2007 ( Maverick.) How can you possibly say based upon the above that Dick Kinzel is favoring CP and ignoring the other parks?

[bkroz]

You must understand that the former Paramount Parks are just now coming out of their 'beefing up' that was so required for them to meet Cedar Fair standards. The Paramount Parks had their gimmicky rides (Arrow multi-loopers, stand-ups, inverts)... But where were the big, tall, fast steel coasters? None of the Paramount Parks had them. So each was quickly given a Geauga Lake ride to keep visitors occupied while that de facto-necessity, a B.T.F.S. machine, was in the works. Fast forward to 2010 and each of the former Paramount Parks (except Great America, for different reasons) has recieved it's BTFS coaster - Behemoth, Diamondback, and the Intimidators.

Keep in mind that Paramount operated very differently than Cedar Fair. Every single park, for the most part, got a new ride every single year. Most were medium-sized, and were cloned and given to other parks, but it kept visitors coming back. Cedar Fair's de facto policy is different - build a BTFS coaster one year, and then ride on its popularity for three or four years. Then, after its marketability is drained, build another. That leaves all the parks with "dry" periods. Cedar Point is starting to come out of one this season. Not only did they get their last BTFS coaster three years ago, but that was when suddenly, five Paramount Parks had to be added into that rotation, thereby creating even MORE of a gap between additions.

Don't mistake what has happened at Kings Island during Cedar Fair's leadership to be their new pattern - we got Firehawk because of Geauga Lake's closure, and Diamondback as our big new ride. Just because there were two years between those additions doesn't mean we should expect a two-year pattern... Expect four years or so between big additions. People aren't too far off in starting their "What Will Be New for 2012?" topics, if you ask me. For better or worse, Cedar Fair handles this particular area much differently than Paramount Parks...

[The Interpreter]

And CBS would probably not have added anything if they could have avoided it. To be fair to Mr. Kinzel and Cedar Fair, the world is a far different place than it was prior to the financial collapse of nearly a couple of years back. I doubt we will be able to ever divine what Cedar Fair's new pattern would be...as I strongly suspect a change in the company's management is coming and soon. That debt load that Mr. Kinzel seems to be rather unconcerned about, thinking he has until 2012, actually has some fairly restrictive covenants, and will have to be managed long before then...one way or another.

[jzarley]

I honestly think that when Mr. Richard Kinzel talks to the Sandusky Register, he thinks he is talking only to Sandusky locals and Cedar Point partisans. I believe he has no idea that others in other areas of the country can easily see it...He is of a different era, and I doubt sincerely he realizes his words are nearly instantaneously available across the world...

That article is also generating some interesting comments on the website.

That's because he's never turned on that "toy" Blackberry that the CF IT department keeps trying to get him to use.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

It's going to be a great ride. All thrill rides aren't coasters. It's going to be something that I think the teen market is really going to like.

this quote jumps out at me in this interview. So no new coaster at Cedar Point?

[Browntggrr]

How is it when a newspaper article comes out, it is easy to see the holes where the writer is inexperienced when it comes down to his/ her knowledge of rides & parks and as enthusiasts, we blame the writer.

But when it is Mr. Kinzel is quoted, he is the one that had to screw up the quote, it could not have been the writer.

Sigh

[Coney Islander]

Personally, I think Cedar Fair is running the Ohio market extremely stupidly... Cedar Point is already at the top of the Midwest thrill market, so any thrill ride addition at Kings Island only adds to the competition between the parks, not even drawing many guests for Kings Island's local market.

The local Thrill market is depleted, and has been for quite some time. The family market (local, state, and country) is pretty much wide open. Neither Paramount nor Cedar Fair seem to understand.

Just my two cents.

[HTCO]

... Cedar Point is already at the top of the Midwest thrill market, so any thrill ride addition at Kings Island only adds to the competition between the parks...[/size]

Uhm... Competition? The money almost goes to the same exact place...

[XGatorHead 8904]

How is it when a newspaper article comes out, it is easy to see the holes where the writer is inexperienced when it comes down to his/ her knowledge of rides & parks and as enthusiasts, we blame the writer.

But when it is Mr. Kinzel is quoted, he is the one that had to screw up the quote, it could not have been the writer.

Sigh

I completely blame the article's author for this:

John Phillips Sousa

That should be John Philip Sousa!

Gator, proud sousaphone player for the past 23 years!

The local Thrill market is depleted, and has been for quite some time. The family market (local, state, and country) is pretty much wide open. Neither Paramount nor Cedar Fair seem to understand.

I'm sure that Paramount doesn't understand, given that they're no longer in the Ohio theme park business!

[Coney Islander]

... Cedar Point is already at the top of the Midwest thrill market, so any thrill ride addition at Kings Island only adds to the competition between the parks...[/size]

Uhm... Competition? The money almost goes to the same exact place...

Yes, but if Cedar Fair were to shift its focus to families, more people seeking thrills would go to Cedar Point, and Kings Island will be drawing a large number of people from the family market, which they haven't done for quite a long time.

I can't recall ever seeing a family at Kings Island... Sometimes a parent with their children, in Planet Snoopy, but never a whole family. And Planet Snoopy isn't a large enough section for a whole day visit.

[markr]

What is your definition of a "family"?

[XGatorHead 8904]

^That's what I'm wondering. Mrs. Gator, GatorGirl and I are a family, and we go to the park together quite a bit...

[Coney Islander]

^^

My definition: Two parents, and a child, or children. All I'm saying is that they could be doing much better at bringing in the families.

[XGatorHead 8904]

I really beg to differ then. I see whole families there together a lot. We're one of those families, and I can't count the number of times that we've run into friends where both parents and all the kids are there together, and these are families of the non-enthusiast variety. And that's just a small cross section of visitors. Spend more time in Planet Snoopy, or around Viking Fury, Scrambler, Monster and Boomerang Bay. You may just change your mind!

[markr]

^My definition: Two parents, and a child, or children.

With all due respect, there are many households that do not fit that definition. Many families are single parent homes as a result of divorce or, worse, death. Perhaps that would describe the children you see with just one parent in Planet Snoopy. I am sure they would consider themeselves to be just as much a family as 2 parents with 2 children.

I recently became friends with a young man who sadly lost his mother last year and who now lives with his aunt with whom he has a very loving relationship. Are they not a family?

I can go on and on with this discussion as to what constitutes a family. That being said, let's assume for the sake of argument that a family is 2 parents and children. You assert Cedar Fair is ignoring families. There are members of families who love coasters and thrill rides and members who can't stand them. Kings Island not only has DB and Beast for the thrill seekers ( many of whom are families ) but Back Lot Stunt Coaster, Adventure Express, 3 great water rides, great shows and other attractions for the non-thrill seekers. Cedar Point not only has great thrill rides but plenty of activities for those who cannot stand thrill rides-not one but two great children's areas ( Planet and Camp Snoopy. ) three water attractions, great shows, I can go on. I just don't understand your reasoning that both Cedar Fair and Paramount have avoided "families."

[Browntggrr]

Personally, I think Cedar Fair is running the Ohio market extremely stupidly... Cedar Point is already at the top of the Midwest thrill market, so any thrill ride addition at Kings Island only adds to the competition between the parks, not even drawing many guests for Kings Island's local market.

The local Thrill market is depleted, and has been for quite some time. The family market (local, state, and country) is pretty much wide open. Neither Paramount nor Cedar Fair seem to understand.

Just my two cents.

This begs the question, are KI and CP in competition with each other? Each is located almost 200 miles apart (4 hours) at different ends of the state. Each had it's own target audience (CP has Cleveland & Detroit; KI has Cincy & Dayton- Columbus is somewhat in the middle).

And even if each is in competition, they have been from 1972 when KI first opened. I have not seen the competition as anything but healthy for the consumer- both family and thrill seeker.

[Captain Picard]

The families thing started when Paramount was looking to end their run. I think it was to make the bottom line look better by not doing big dollar rides and then dump the parks on a fool. What is happening now is the results of years of milking the parks for all they was worth.

[KIfan1980]

That article is also generating some interesting comments on the website.

Did those comments disappear? Neither of the two I saw were that interesting.

On the family discussion - like Gator, I spend a lot of time at the park with my family and see many, many others doing the same. I actually believe that KI does a good job of catering to the family market and does a pretty good job balancing the various different demographics it tries to appeal to the full range (from those looking to enjoy Planet Snoopy to those looking for Major Thrill Rides and Coasters). What is lacking (in my opinion) is a few flats that could really help bridge the gap (the way I think Racer, Flight Deck, and BLSC do on the coaster side). As examples:

• Ongoing frustration that there are no Antiques or Flying Eagles, and only slower than other parks Dodgems
• I really think KI could use a couple more classic rides like the following from CP: Tilt-a-Whirl, Super Himalaya, Calypso, Witches Wheel. I know KI has Viking Fury, Shake Rattle & Roll, Monster, and Scrambler - I'd just like a couple more with a slightly higher thrill factor.

[The Interpreter]

The Sandusky Register sometimes does not allow comments to stay posted that do not please certain local interests. It's as if a thread were to disappear...flip flopping into the night, leaving only a few skeletal remains behind.

[luff]

On the family discussion - like Gator, I spend a lot of time at the park with my family and see many, many others doing the same. I actually believe that KI does a good job of catering to the family market and does a pretty good job balancing the various different demographics it tries to appeal to the full range (from those looking to enjoy Planet Snoopy to those looking for Major Thrill Rides and Coasters). What is lacking (in my opinion) is a few flats that could really help bridge the gap (the way I think Racer, Flight Deck, and BLSC do on the coaster side). As examples:

I completely agree. KI is great for younger kids, and great for thrill seekers, but not for the in between. My daughter is short for her age, but is looking for the more thrilling rides. She has been on an arrow looper (Demon @42 inches), but she is stuck in Planet Snoopy at KI. This is one of the reasons we went to Dollywood this year instead of KI.

[bkroz]

For what it's worth, before my intervention, my friends were convinced that Kings Island was a "kiddie park." That's apparently the thought that people in Northeast Ohio have... At least, some of them.

[The Interpreter]

Trying to be fair, today a major stock brokerage firm upgraded FUN to long term buy. And the stock market responded, on a day when the general market was up about a percent and a half, with FUN units going up three tenths of one percent. Or to put it another way, the market was underwhelmed by this upgrade.