bkroz

Sort of an interesting idea: Six Flags Over Texas' Texas Giant roller coaster, which was popularly down for an extensive rehab, is now being... steel-itized. At an estimated $10 million (nearly twice the initial cost of the ride), Texas Giant's track (not frame, but track) is being completely replaced by steel bars. http://www.amusementtoday.com/ The debate now (going on at Theme Park Review) is whether or not Texas Giant is still a wooden roller coaster. Technically, it appears to be a unique twist on the hybrid idea of Gemini, and sort an opposite of the short-lived The Villain at Geauga Lake. I don't think that this would be a fix for Son of Beast since most of the problem seems to be the structure and not the track itself, but this is certainly something to look into should the owners of the park seek a major overhaul. It would almost surely reduce the roughness of the ride. Of course, the structure could also be replaced with steel a la The Villain, which would technically leave it a wooden roller coaster (to save its records) and probably also drastically reduce roughness. Texas Giant's new rails, from the above linked Amusement Today article. The Villain's wooden track with steel supports. Sorry if this is old-news.. I don't think it is? But even if it is, I don't believe it's been discussed in relation to Son of Beast.

I'm so glad they're making a "thing" out of Planet Snoopy. The other parks had their ride names released on any ole' day, no hooplah, maybe the map came out and people just went 'Oh, there's Planet Snoopy...' But with ours, they're really making a production of it, first releasing restaurants, etc. It's very cool. Nice job, Cedar Fair! I'm liking this.

I'm always baffled that, when people talk about Paramount's poor themeing, they immediately jump to The Italian Job and Tomb Raider. No, the Italian Job didn't really belong where it was placed. It could've fit elsewhere. But with a bit of imagination, it fits quite well in the Coney Mall section; I chose to think of it like a "cops 'n robbers chase" sort of ride, and I find that it fits quite well. Also, most of the complaining that I hear is how the antique cars were there. Well, as one of a (growing) number of park patrons who barely remember the antique cars, I find Backlot Stunt Coaster to be a fun ride in a nice location. That leads me to believe that most of the "it doesn't belong there" hatred of it comes from an emotional, I-miss-the-antique-cars perspective. Plus, before Diamondback's splashdown eliminated Swan Lake, Italian Job was mostly removed and cut-off from Rivertown, anyway, and guests near The Beast couldn't see it, nor could guests near Tomb Raider. And as for Tomb Raider, where else would you have it placed? Oktoberfest? Coney Mall? It just so happens that we do not have the luxury of a well-themed, immersive Congo area the way that Kings Dominion does. When it came time for Paramount to place the $20,000,000 ride at one of its parks, I think we should feel lucky that they chose us and fit it in as best they could. In retrospect, of course, I certainly wouldn't mind having gotten Kings Dominion's, and they, ours. Again, Cedar Fair has improved the park markedly in many areas. In others, they've lost touch with what the park stood for. The same can be said of Paramount's time in control. I can't imagine there being a day when Flight Deck is called Flight Deck. It was built as Top Gun, it's referred to as Top Gun, and kids even today are being told by their parents "Let's go ride Top Gun!" Imagine if the tables had turned, and Ohio now was home to a park called Paramount's Cedar Point. Even should they rename Millennium Force to Iron Man: The Ride, it would always be Millennium Force. That sort of change doesn't usually go by unnoticed. What I constantly have to remind myself is, Cedar Fair didn't just buy the park, Paramount put it up for sale. The same can be said of Taft... Paramount didn't just buy Taft, Taft agreed to be purchased by Paramount. There were no hostile takeovers. Paramount sold the park to Cedar Fair, for better or worse.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the 5@5, didn't they say a new roller coaster must be tested about 100 times (per train?) before it's operational? Even if it is per-train, it couldn't take more than a few weeks to run through that, right? Assuming nothing goes wrong, of course... Just thinkin' out loud!

From the official Facebook page of Kings Island: I would imagine that Planet Snoopy Grill is in the old Central Grill; Snoopy's Snack Shack is the Krusty Krab Snack Shack; Snoopy's Boutique is the Nickelodeon Store or whatever it was called.

Cedar Fair teams with MTV? Flight of Fear -> MTV Soundwave, MTV? Viacom's MTV? Viacom's Paramount? Ah, what a tangled web they weave.

That was done some months ago.

Yeah, that's just the shows. Also I don't think you're supposed to post links to pages that aren't "officially" accessible. I do not know.

http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54100 This is really hilarious... Member-submitted photoshops of what it would be like if Cedar Fair were in a business other than the theme park one, or owned different parks than they do now. There are some really fantastic ones. I especially love Twilight Zone Tower of Terror being renamed "Backlot Drop Tower," and "Manta" renamed "Flat Fish Ride". But this one has got to be my favorite: Canyon Adventure, Castle, Space Flight Deck, all sponsored by Barbie, Jimmy Dean sausage, etc. Hahah! We ought to have our own photoshop contest like this.

Kings Dominion's Congo area (easily the best themed area in any of the former Paramount Parks) plays the movie score (not soundtrack, but score) from the first Lara Croft: Tomb Raider movie. At least, it did last summer. Literally just track-by-track. I have the soundtrack on my iPod, and could quickly identify what song was coming up next, and hummed along to much of it. Of course, their Crypt also retains the music from its Tomb Raider: Firefall days, as well as its monkey-warrior statue movie props. And the Tomb Raider music really adds and incredible dimension to the park, too. I had almost forgotten how great themed music could be. Rebranding in Virginia was not of paramount importance the way that it was in Ohio.

It would be ridiculous to assume that all, or even most of the problems at the park today were brought on by Paramount. I assume your main point is Son of Beast. Yes, it may have been a mistake. But I find it very silly, and you certainly come across as having a pre-disposed dislike of Paramount (in fairness, the same way I have a dislike for Cedar Fair) if the point you're trying to make is that Cedar Fair is doing the best they can with what they were given. I would argue that, when a rides across the nation are re-named not with a new identity, but with a clearly generic version of their old identity, Cedar Fair hasn't done all they could with what they were given. Those who disliked Paramount's reign around here point only to them destroying the park's theme. At least they tried. In many ways, they made what the park is today in both good and bad, and there's absolutely no way for any of us to know where (or if) the park would be if Paramount or Taft were still around, or if Cedar Fair never came. For all we know, in some parallel dimension where one of those scenarios is true, the park may already be closed, The Beast falling apart and overtaken by the woods, etc. My dislike of the company comes from their decisions with the operations and then closure of Geauga Lake. But at least there, they came into ownership of the park and had mere weeks to re-make everything sans Six Flags licensing. The Paramount Parks were purchased and had a year for all sorts of planning, tidying up, and improving that just didn't happen. That's my opinion. It is biased, yes. But I can appreciate the things that all three (and really, more) owners of the park have done positively, and also the things they could've spent more time on. Kings Island would be a far different place without Cedar Fair. And it would be a far different place without Paramount. But it's more than the sum of its parts - it's come together into a fantastic place full of breathtaking rides and good times. And likely, no matter who owns or owned the park, it will stay that way.

If I had to chose, I'd go the "they don't care" route. After all, after even a dozen or so emails or comments about it, you'd think they'd say, "Well, it's cheap" (which it apparently is since they use it at Worlds of Fun "and I doubt anyone would complain about it." If it would make even a thousand guests happy, and it costs so very very very very little, why not do it? Because it takes too much time to ask Worlds of Fun to send the playlist over? Because it takes too long to set that as the music playing over the International Street speakers? I think they just don't care. The things Paramount did were, even if temporary, far exceeding anything anyone could've thought a seasonal theme park would have. In many ways, they revolutionalized many things - Parks like Islands of Adventure have taken the "area specific soundtrack" idea and run with it. Parks like Disney and Universal are just now adding coasters with on-board and/or synchornized sounds the way Tomb Raider, Italian Job and even Flight of Fear had been doing since their creation. Sure it wasn't all necessarily kept up at 100% operations, but even at 25% operation was more than other seasonal parks had tried (and 25% is 100% more work than Cedar Fair has done on the "details" front).

It is true that Paramount over-commercialized the park, with ads for Gillette and things like that. But I'd take a Gillette sticker on the Top Gun train over an unpainted, rusting Flight Deck train anyway. Sure things like the themeing in the Top Gun station decreased and almost died under Paramount's rule, but Cedar Fair didn't even try to put in themeing. Paramount had themeing that did, after time, deteriorate. Cedar Fair never added theme to begin with, so none of their lack-of-themeing degrades. I know that's confusing, but it's true. The park seems better and more stable, but only because there's nothing new added to the theme.

I have put my disapproval of Cedar Fair's choices out on a limb quite a few times in the last few years. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe they'd acknowledge that our Nickelodeon Universe was always bigger and better than other park's Nickelodeon Centrals, and that maybe they'd respect that by giving us a unique, well-themed area a la Camp Snoopy. Nope. I was happy when they first took charge (which I've never admitted before!) because if Cedar Fair does anything well, it's upkeep; I knew that Top Gun would be repainted, Racer would be restored, and Tomb Raider's downtime would be reduced to nothing. Didn't happen. I was happy because I knew many of our rides would be rebranded with less-commercialized, and more interesting names, even if they were copied from legacy parks (Drop Zone -> Power Tower; Top Gun -> Silver Bullet; Italian Job: Stunt Track -> Turbo Stunt Track.) Nah, we get Flight Deck. Even after all that, people are putting their hopes out there that Fairly Odd Coaster will become The Beastie while every other park gets Woodstock Expresses, or that maybe they'll recognize that we're special and give us something other than Boo Blasters on Boo Hill. I hope that's the case, but I've given up on trusting that they'll honor the traditions and history of the park. Kings Island is cleaner, and we get Diamondback. Both really great things! But now we also get Boo Blasters on Boo Hill, "Flight Deck," The Crypt, no Son of Beast, poor music choices, a degradation in theme around the park, etc. And now that Cedar Fair may be "going broke," I can only fear for the park's future. Didn't Kinzel himself say that he wanted the Paramount Parks chiefly for Kings Island? That's why I fear that, even if they know they are not the best thing for the park, what remains (if any) of Cedar Fair will hold on Kings Island with a stranglehold, and bring it down with them if they should go under... They claim they've returned Kings Island to the way it was in the '70's and '80's. If by that they mean they removed "Paramount's" from the park's name, then yes. But the Tower Gardens are bare, the themeing is worse now than its ever been, Racer's paint is flaking, and much much more... If they claim that it's back to the way it used to be, at least make some kind of effort to do so. That's my monthly allowance of Cedar Fair disapproval. This was only a test of my anger-broadcast-system. Please don't get all mad and respond angrily at this. The idea of people thinking that this ride might become Phantom Theater again just brings up a lot of the times I've been disappointed. Would it cost exactly the same amount of money to rename FOC to The Beastie? Sure. But I just don't think Cedar Fair cares enough to do that. That's just me.

Well Cedar Fair doesn't like the Son of Beast experience, but is apparently a-okay with the Crypt one... Not saying I disagree with either opinion, but it's definitely interesting to note, and proves that it wouldn't be the first time that the general public and Cedar Fair have disagreed.

The themeing is the biggest victim of the Cedar Fair's purchase of the park, and likely the biggest external change that took place in the entire chain. There's no denying that the lack of theme during the ride is the most crippling factor. But again, we have to recall the other things: 1) A faulty, if not doomed ride mechanism - The Giant Top Spin has been put through more than probably another other ride of its caliber: Four different ride cycles (each having to be specially designed - other top spins can chose from a pool of pre-approved ride programs. Since ours is an 'only,' each desired new program must be custom designed from scratch), one of which had it flipping far more than the gondola could handle (or so it seems), resulting in easily the most tame program on any top spin today. 2) A lack of surprise - Surprise was really the defining factor of Tomb Raider. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no one outside of its construction and creation knew what it was before opening day. And even then, it's hard to explain. I could tell my friends "It's spins you upside down and its like two arms that hold a giant gondola in a big room." It means nothing to them. I could even say "It's a top spin." And it means nothing. I could say "It's like Texas Twister / Thunderhawk / etc." but that doesn't really begin to explain what it was. With the rising door gone and with the word out that it's not only a top spin, but a poorly-operating one at that, all of that surprise that made the ride so unique is gone. My first time riding, even as an enthusiast, I didn't know what it was even while seated on it, because it's so different from anything else. I imagine others felt the same. However, the door was removed, again, because it was "one last thing to worry about." When the ride is closing every other day for technical issues and a fun (but admittedly unnecessary) detail like a rising wall breaks, there comes over the mechanics a level of frustration that anyone would experience where they say "We're not shutting the ride down for an unnecessary detail - just take it out." 3) A lack of storyline - No matter how vague Tomb Raider's story was, it gave something to the folks who thought that sort of thing could never exist outside Floridian and Californian parks: a search for an ancient Triangle of Light, capable of altering time. The story was all there, it only required someone with an inquisitive mind to put it together. The newly discovered temple with the Triangle insignia on the exterior, the Triangle on the rolling door locking people inside as if to say "Yes! This is it! You have found the right temple, and you're getting closer!" Even the ride vehicle (though i'm not sure if they even intended for this) was set amid excavation equipment and digging lights that, for some odd reason, were still functioning perfectly despite the fact that they'd been lost for decades. Almost as if time in the chamber had stopped in the eye of the Triangle. Then, when the goddess is awoken by the commotion and, without words, makes it clear that you're about to be thrown around a bit by her powers over the elements as she protects the Triangle. Even at the end, for a good amount of time, upon being "defeated," the goddess let out one last poof of fog from the Triangle as she screeched, seemingly almost reaching the gondola, but not quite close enough. I guess the caveat to all this is that I'm saying "Well it's not necessary Cedar Fair's fault. The rising wall broke at a bad time; the lava was drained because it was one less thing to worry about during its turbulent season in 2008; Cedar Fair tried their best to input theme sans storyline with the Crypt." However, these are not excuses. They're merely things that buy Cedar Fair time - in all fairness, the ride is now operating well. It's now that one would expect thing like the rising wall, the fountains, etc. to be put back. Because it made sense to remove them then, but doesn't make sense to leave them out now.

See also, It's the same video, but with the ride's musical score synched up to it, and with a few clips from the Travel Channel special to fill the very dark parts. :] Courtesy of yours truly and a little iMovie magic. I especially like the part where the lava is just lightly bubbling until, just when the music crescendos, it actually shoots up fountains. And KIBOB, I would make the argument that, if Cedar Fair's intention is to have you giggling and shouting inside a crypt (a burial tomb, a resting place for loved ones) while a demonic bat snarls at you, than having a pit of blood is only a small step beyond that. And it's not like they need big signs with arrows pointing at it that read "BLOOD." Red water is ambiguous enough, right?

It's kind of a mindfreak to see the name "Great America" attached to new rides & attractions, isn't it? That other Great America certainly hasn't had a season like that in quite a while.

The "pit of blood," with hundreds of lights placed underwater... All still there. Stalactites that were embedded with hundreds of lights that changed from blue to red, then strobe lights from within went off as the gondola fell.

Very true - and in the scheme of typical theme park installations, it costs almost nothing. Again, we're not asking to install some crazy water-cycling system or to put in all these special lights - they're already there! I'm not saying that there's not something I don't know about - it's very possible that the ride's current setup can't clear the icicles based on their former location, or that the waterline in the pool has been disconnected. Something like that is possible. But if it hasn't happened, it's painful to think that they won't use what's already there. The lights are already pointed at the stalactites location. The pool of water is rigged with fountains and Hollywood-style lighting. I'm not sure anyone (myself included) appreciates the complexities of that room - there are lights positioned everywhere, specifically placed so that they don't cast shadows from the ride vehicle, etc. There are multiple high-powered fog machines specifically placed and timed to burst out huge clouds of fog while the gondola is facing away. The volcano still has tons of smaller fog machines and lights positioned within it. Thats multi-million dollar lighting and sound systems. It's not only a shame, but an outrageous lie to say that the Crypt lacks potential. They could likely shut the ride down for three days (or use the remainder of the off-season) to fill the lava pits, re-installed the "stalactites," try out Kings Dominion's music, and fix some of the lights that have gone out. In the scheme of things, it would be nothing, but it would make a whole new ride. Talk about a sign I'd like to see outside of The Crypt: "This ride now has more theme!"

I actually agree... On the condition that they sort of reduce the hang-time, at least by a little bit. The Tomb Raider cycle wasn't that much longer than the current Crypt cycle, and it has far more interest as far as movements. The problem is, I don't know if it would still be possible to perform the Tomb Raider cycle... With a third of the ride removed, the entire mechanism must operate differently. Different center of gravity. Different weight. Different capacity... It may not be physically able to perform the movements it once did. Ironically, one might imagine that they caused all those mechanical problems and reduced the capacity by 33% for nothing - I'm sure the ride could perform its current cycle with three rows. And that would REALLY make a difference on hot summer days and Halloween when the line stretches out the cavern. If the Tomb Raider cycle would put more wear on the ride than the current cycle and Cedar Fair refuses to get a suspended top spin, I'd rather keep what we have and enhance it than try to change it drastically. My suggestion in the "keep the Giant Top Spin" category is to either return the Tomb Raider cycle (or even keep it as it is now, if you must), fill the water pool, and screw the "icicles" back to the ceiling. Painted a dull-brown, they would resemble simple stalactites. The lightbulbs in place in the lava pit are deep reds and oranges, so just call it "a pool of blood," maybe have a skeleton floating in it. They needn't even turn on the fountains, just have the illuminated red water and the rocky stalactites lit throughout the entire ride cycle. The ride needn't "interact" with them or anything... Just as long as there's something to look at! That with would honestly make for a WAY better experience.

Because there's no need to spend money on water effects and fog machines on a ride that breaks so frequently. As I said, each time the ride breaks, the water has to be drained to access the gondola, so when a ride has as much downtime as our Giant Top Spin, first priority will always be operations. Of course, now that it is operating more frequently and seems to have found a ride cycle that "works," perhaps that may be reevaluated in the future. But, it's a double-edged sword - that ride cycle that increases operations also seems to have drastically reduced guest satisfaction, dooming the ride for different reasons.

Very true! But, consider: Tomb Raider: The Ride inspiried Tomb Raider: Firefall. Tomb Raider: Firefall is often credited as inspiring Talocan. Tomb Raider: Firefall and Talocan inspiried Firefall at Great America - That, of course, means that we have the one that started it all amid themed top spins. I used the word "have" because it's all still there - the goddess, the volcano, the fountains, the lights, the speakers, even the hose used to fill up the lava pits is wrapped around the front row's queue fence. All it takes is a company willing to go the extra half-mile and actually use what is already there, just sitting and gathering dust to return it to its former glory (or pretty darn close)! It's not as if we're asking for Cedar Fair to build fountains and stuff - they're already there! Just not filled up. It's worth thinking about. The other thing I have to say is, Cedar Fair can do theme. They've not only kept up the theme at Kings Dominion's Crypt (if you think those fountains / flame mechanisms / mist machines haven't needed maintanence in the last three years they've owned the parks, you're nut), but they've went ahead and installed a similar theme at Great America's Firefall. Firefall is surrounded by volcanos and waterfalls (though, of course, not the extent of Kings Dominion's Crypt), plays Kings Dominon's Crypt's music, and uses flames and synchronized fountains. Cedar Fair did that. When they came into ownership of that ride, it was Texas Twister at Geauga Lake. They elected to add those special effects all by themselves, Paramount didn't do it for them. So why they can't put a little extra time and money into ours (which is literally bursting with potential) is beyond me. I'll say what I've said from the beginning: Playing Kings Dominion's Crypt music (the same music they took to CGA's Firefall, despite its never having been related to the Tomb Raider or Crypt franchise) on our Crypt would improve the ride by leaps and bounds.

If they removed the box, they might as well remove everything that currently stands. The highly themed queue leading to an outdoor ride? It would be a shame to ruin that whole buildup. And, of course, if the ride were placed outdoors, but on the current foundation, it would be facing The Beast's breakrun... Not like Kings Dominion's where there's a plaza around it and folks can watch. All things considered, I think you might as well keep it in the building. The darkness and lighting add a unique element that no other top spin on Earth (literally) has.

The reason that the ride is unlikely to be open in 10 years is because of its constant downtime and it's reputation, which first decreased due to lack of theme, then plummeted due to lack of thrill. It's almost inconcievable to us that, on Kings Dominion fansites, there's abolutely no worry at all that their Crypt could be removed. It's never broken, it's extremely popular, and it's considered an invaluable flat ride! It's a mindfreak to us that a ride called "The Crypt" could be a stable, well-loved staple of a park. Haha. It is in no danger of removal, and as far as anyone there can tell, it will still be a major attraction for the park in 10 years. Ours could be the same (or, even better with our already-in-place, but unused special effects!) And as far as marketing, as I said, phrases like "top spin" and "suspended top spin" and "giant top spin" would go over the heads of the public, but a sign placed out front reading "This ride is now floorless and has more thrills!" and even with a small marketing campaign on brochures, commercials, etc. would allow the public to know what's up. Imagine a commercial set to pulsating jungle drums with just a few flashes of flame, a flash of screaming riders flipped upside down, a burst of water, and then the screen reads "Eight inversions. Flames. Water." A voice speaks: "You'll never feel more alive than when you're locked into The Crypt - now floorless, and more thrilling than ever before. Only at Kings Island." Besides, if the park plans to keep the current top spin for even five more years, they might just as well replace it this off-season - the cost of current mechanical ware, the constant breakdowns, the maintenance staff that revives it all the time, and perhaps most importantly, the awful reputation it has gained add up to a lot of financial loss. Though replacing it with a suspended top spin would be a larger upfront cost, it would pay off far more in the long-term when, fifteen years from now, The Crypt could still be thrilling and lively. But, as can be seen in instances such as food pricing, Flight Deck's paint job, etc., Cedar Fair seems almost unable to factor in long-term gain - it's all about a quick payoff.