bkroz

On my trip to Florida, Lion was closed for maintenance, but my friend and I agreed that Tiger was one of our favorite wooden roller coasters. In fact, I believe he said it was his #1 coaster (beating out his previous #1, Griffon - he's been on nearly all 100 coasters that I've been on). I wouldn't call it #1, but it certainly was fun. I can only imagine how I'd have liked it if they were dueling! And keep in mind, Tiger just recently closed for rehab, so we rode it a month or so before it was due to close (which means it was at its worst?) so I would definitely suggest you not take someone's word for it when they say Gwazi (or any coaster for that matter) is awful.

I wonder if anyone can / will snatch up the FUN trading name post-Cedar Fair? Can they do that? But it surely must be a sought after name... How many companies out there would love being FUN?

When I said 'Those days are long gone' I was talking about the days when Cedar Point might've argued that Demon Drop counted as a roller coaster. Haha. Those days are gone, because the ride is no longer at Cedar Point and therefore, not able to tip the balance in their favor. Also, I hardly think it's an enthusiast-only record. The world's only Giant Top Spin? Yes. But the most roller coasters in a single park? Most of the general public is very aware of that record, due to its level of marketing. Some parks might choose to market "Quality over quantity," but to each (park) its own!

Hopefully something other than Fahrenheit was meant by Beast1979. It's anything but a one-trick pony. Storm Runner? Maybe. Fahrenheit? I don't think so... hahah.

I would say Demon Drop is a roller coaster. There's just a lot of arbitrary rules out there that don't necessarily make sense, but that's just the way things are understood... I don't know that it's right, but in the end, why does it matter? Because someone needs three or four extras on a "coaster count"? Both log flumes and first generation freefalls fit (loosely, but no more loosely than Top Thrill Dragster) the dictionary definition of roller coaster: Link. Again, though, I can't see how it matters. If Cedar Point wanted to claim Demon Drop as a roller coaster, they certainly could've tried. Six Flags fans would have rebelled, Cedar Point would have either conceded or said "Well fine, then Shoot the Rapids counts!" and the coaster battle would become a coaster war... And all for a number. Those days are long gone, though... Personally, when I hop aboard a ride, the last thing on my mind is "I can't believe this isn't counted as a roller coaster!" Just ride the rides and enjoy it!

If Shoot the Rapids is a roller coaster, so is Splash Mountain. The major difference between the two is that Splash Mountain's ride track is built into a plaster mountain facade and Shoot the Rapid's is in the open. Other than that, they're both log flume canals with lift hills and track-guided drops... And if Splash Mountain is a roller coaster, lots of things are roller coasters. It's only a small step from there to claiming raft-rides with drops are roller coasters because they're guided and gravity-powered... That's a Pandora's Box I am not willing to deal with! Haha!

I absolutely agree with that. Many folks complain about Hollywood Rip, Ride, Rockit at Universal Studios Florida for being a mediocre coaster (especially for that particular area). I have said from day one that it works incredibly well as a prototype and will almost doubtlessly spawn many further roller coasters that take the idea and really run with it. I don't think a prototype is what Universal had in mind, but the idea will certainly be copied in years to come, resulting in what I'm sure will be some top ten coasters. Son of Beast is much the same, in my opinion. A prototype, if you will, of what I'm sure will be perfected one day. With Intamin's new technology, it's just a matter of time before another looping wooden roller coaster makes its way to the foreground (perhaps not tallest / fastest, though it certainly could be since their coasters hold the #2 and #3 spot in those categories, don't they?). With any luck, Kings Island would be the first contacted, and Cedar Fair (or whoever owns the parks) will reach out to be the first. What better place for a new world's first looping wooden roller coaster than on the site of the "failed" prototype? And, as I've said before, I would relinquish our "next big investment" circa 2012 to tear down Son of Beast and install an Intamin (hyper?)woodie in its place. I really would. You see how far El Toro can go, now imagine it a few feet taller, a bit faster, and with a loop. That's a "world's best" sort of idea, isn't it?

No. Other rides have had minor mechanical issues, or have caused minor injuries. But no rides has had SO many different issues over 10 years and still stands today. And that's NOT your consistant and unrelenting vendetta against this ride talking, right? Many rides of equal, lesser, and greater intensity have caused more deaths, injuries, and accidents while attaining a more hazardous safety record that still stand today. It's almost unbelievable that anyone would dispute that, with rides like Xcelerator and Top Thrill Dragster spraying metallic shards into people faces. You should have just posted "I hate Son of Beast and I wish it would be torn down" once and been done with it. That's what most of your posts in this thread amount to, after all. Totaling up the actual injuries caused by Son of Beast, we have a crack in the structure which resulted in a train of people experiencing back problems, and one woman who may or may not have developed an aneurism from the ride. Totaled up, that is all. Any and all other injuries were found to be pre-existing conditions, and hold no more grounds against the ride's safety than any of the dozens of "pre-existing condition" deaths from Mission: Space and Tower of Terror. Is the ride costly? Sure. But to pretend it's some death trap that has cut off limbs and scarred riders and destroyed lives is absolutely silly. It just is. The injuries caused by pre-existing conditions (and even the alleged anuerism suffered earlier this year) might've been triggered by a ride on The Beast had she chosen to ride that first, or even a typical Wild Mouse. We will never know. Yes, I am all for bringing in Intamin and building a new plug-n-play woodie in its place. But let's not over-exaggerate and pretend it has, straight up, the worst record in all of amusement park history. If any company would immediately shutter any ride that had any negative impact on public safety, it's Cedar Fair. This is proven by the fact that, despite DOA's go-ahead, Son of Beast remained closed. But to say there are no rides on Earth with a such a tarnished record? If that were so, the ride would be torn-down, as many have been.

There are only a handful of roller coasters "bigger" than Son of Beast, first off - in both speed, height, and length, its stats are incredible. And have those few bigger rides drawn "what ifs?" Yes. You must recall that many roller coasters that beat Son of Beast's stats are manufactured by a certain Swiss company that has very... let's say, unpredictable... ways of reaching those records. If you want to jump right to the biggest and tallest, take Kingda Ka - I just finished posting in another thread about its cable fraying, spraying the train with sparks, overheating engines, engine seal damage, irreversible brake fin damage, lightning strikes, and much, much more. Millennium Force had its lift cable snap at the beginning of last season. Top Thrill Dragster and Xcelerator have sprayed metal shrapnel onto riders. A rider fell to his death from Drop Zone at Great America. Even Disney's California Screamin' saw two trains collide when breaks failed, prompting the same kind of action as what occurred after Son of Beast's 2006 incident. All of these (save Xcelerator, but it's expected to) have reopened and garnered lines that are, for the most part, unaffected by the accidents that preceded. The reason these problems occur at seasonal parks more than at Universal-esque parks is because Universal heavily utilize B&M - a manufacturer that uses traditional lift hills and steel coasters (save Incredible Hulk, whose launch mechanism they outsourced to another company), and as such, as known as incredibly reliable, safe coasters. Disney, often calls on Vekoma for their coasters, and has a good track record when combined with Disney's spot-on and preventative maintenance. Keep in mind, small accidents do happen to various riders around the world, and always will. Most are the fault of the rider. But when rides do have serious happenings (see all the events listed above) enough to draw the ride's safety into question, they are closed, re-evaluated, changed where necessary, and often reopened. It would never be fair to say you can ride a roller coaster with no risk of injury, the same way you can't possibly get into a motor vehicle without a risk of injury. Even should the ride be safe, what's to say an airplane doesn't come crashing into it while you're riding? Risk is part of life (if you plan to live a halfway normal life, anyway) and if your plan is to avoid it, you wouldn't make it far enough out of your home to get to Son of Beast, anyway.

When a ride has had as many issues as Kingda Ka (far surpassing those affecting its Ohioan counterpart), I should hope that the state of New Jersey has mandated more than the typical daily inspection. Shredded cables, broken brake fins, engine seal damage, lightning strikes, blown fuses... Murphy's Law, after all. Kingda Ka has probably spent the same ratio of uptime to downtime as Son of Beast, if not worse. And methinks it more than a coincidence that, the day Great Adventure promised that they'd have Kingda Ka up and running smoothly for the 2010 season is the day that Six Flags filed for bankruptcy. Note that Top Thrill Dragster has never fallen past #11 in the Golden Ticket's running for best steel coaster. To my knowledge, Kingda Ka has never made the list - there is a reason... Or more.

It's the quarterly ACE magazine. You must be a member of the American Coaster Enthusiasts to receive it.

The Crypt almost got the cover! Just a few centimeters to the right and we'd have had it!

Doubtful. If Cedar Point claims Shoot the Rapids as a coaster, it will be highly disputed. Like I said earlier, no one cares if Kings Island claims Avatar as a coaster because it doesn't change their marketing. If Cedar Point and Kings Island were tied for most coasters, Avatar would certainly be highly disputed and likely, found to not count. Water coasters don't officially count, though I can certainly see that changing - water coasters are much different creatures than they used to be - we're not talking about a flume ride with a guide rail on the drop. We're talking about the Journey to Atlantises and the Ripsaw Falls and such that have extensive portions that fit the very definition of a roller coaster.

Almost never operates = downtime in the summer. So yes, it has downtime in the summer.

I imagine you're 100% right. However, my thought is, look at the trouble that the current Crypt has caused. The money that has been lost due to its constant downtime, multiple needs for reprogramming, mechanical ware, and perhaps most notably, its poor customer satisfaction (and what I can only assume is low re-ridership) probably could've already paid for itself had the ride been replaced by a more reliable and efficient suspended model back when it first started showing problems in 2002. At this point, it would be all but ridiculous to continue running it as it is when there's a perfectly suitable replacement available. I can only imagine that the cost to reconfigure the building to meet the fire codes would be worth it. And, though again I'm sure you're right, it seems to me that the foundation changes necessary would be much easier than most parks would have it: The Crypt is anchored into a smooth, large, cement foundation. Just thinking of other top spins, many are buried in dirt and landscaping long before they hit their foundations. Not to mention, many top spins fold into and out of trucks, like Transformers! Not saying they're the same thing, because they're not. Only that I personally would guess (I am no expert) that the reconfiguring of the existing ride space is absolutely worth it and, in the scheme of things simple. My idea (ridiculous as it may be) is that The Crypt continues to run for the 2010 season. Then, give it a year (2011 season) off for the structural improvements discussed, allowing the building to be reconfigured as need be (and perhaps, painted go-away green or at least have some vines grow down the sides...). What I'm saying is, for our next "big" investment (likely circa 2012), why not add a suspended top spin (which, all things considered, can't be more than $12 million*), a Ferris wheel, and maybe an S&S Screamin' Swing in Coney Mall. Altogether, those three things wouldn't top $23 million*, which is about what you'd expect the park to invest in its "big" addition, and it gives us three fantastic (and much needed) flats. My thing from the beginning as been, there used to be a time when people would say "Sure Cedar Point has roller coasters - but what they're lacking is anything else." But today, they have matched (and in many opinions, have beaten) us in the flat rides category that we once held dear. They've matched us where possible, and in the few areas that we held over their heads (see, Tomb Raider: The Ride), we've shot ourselves in the foot. Of course, all of this is contingent upon the idea that, this time next month / year, the park is owned by someone who hasn't already torn it down, or improved it by leaps and bounds (perhaps the leaps and bounds I've described in my first post). Though the Crypt's ridership went up this year, I'd argue that that is due most entirely to a ride time lasting significantly less than two minutes. I'd also wager that most of those riders are first-time riders, and will likely not be returning to that particular mysterious cavern in Rivertown next season, unless advertised in a new and more appropriate way. * I may be tens of millions of dollars off on these estimations. I have no idea. Just giving it the ole' college try of a guess!

Have you seen how the line for Top Thrill Dragster grows after a rollback? And keep in mind, these are usually folks who do not know the safety mechanisms in place - these people typically think something has gone horribly wrong! Many people are attracted to that danger, and want to be part of the spectacle of a rollback or a ride closure. Of course, I'd much rather be stuck on broken ride at Universal than on a roller coaster - there's a lot more excitement (in my book, at least) to seeing the backstage of a well-themed ride than there is to stopping momentarily on a roller coaster like Adventure Express, Invertigo, etc.

I, personally, enjoy the ride as it currently is (more than how it started off as The Crypt). The eight-flip cycle, to me, was far, far too forceful. Granted, it was the same (or, nearly the same) as the cycle used by Kings Dominion's Crypt (where I find the cycle to be quite enjoyable), but with the massive size of our gondola, it was simply exhausting. I physically felt drained afterwards, as did many of my friends, leaving me practically by myself for a second ride at the end of the day (I just love seeing the goddess, volcano, etc, so I do ride it quite often). The current cycle is very, very tame. Tomb Raider: The Ride was known as one of, if not the most tame cycle ever to be installed on a top spin, and our current Crypt has half the inversions that Tomb Raider had. However, here's some information that makes a lot of sense to me: All that being said, there might be a future for the ride. Who knows? Its cycle, today, leaves it operating much more often than ever before. Though it may be "boring," if a ride is working well and has ridership, there's no need to demolish it. So in that line of thinking, the first thing to do is to re-invigorate the Crypt's image - it's now a family ride, and ought to be advertised as such. The map, website, etc. touting it as a psychological experience and a level-5 thrill and a battle between the elements and a desperate escape... That's obviously going to leave riders disappointed. My ideas for the ride's future (if there is one):

One thing that irritates me about it is that I feel like you shouldn't have to try and flip it. Maybe if they gave it some slack and rotated the ball around a few times before putting it in the launch position and letting people board Actually that sounds kind of dangerous... But to me at least, it amounts to Power Tower - launch up, fall down, bounce a bit. The most I've seen it flip is twice. And the line is killer... If there's a dozen people in front of you, you're looking at an hour wait. When my friends get in line, those of us who aren't riding usually go do Adventure Express, Delirium, sometimes Flight of Fear, and arrive in plenty of time to see there's still six or so people ahead of them. Of course, when it's $5.00 in the morning, why not?

Given the choice between all four of that particular top spin's cycles, I'd take the four-flip Tomb Raider even now (though maybe with a reduced amount of "hangtime"). For me, (and most of my friends) the eight flip cycle was honestly just too much. I do like it on The Crypt at Kings Dominion and stuff (our eight-flip cycle was a duplicate of theirs), but I honestly think our physical ride is far too big and weighs far too much to perform those aerial moves - it was draining and honestly, most people sat out when I went for a second time (just because I love the building, goddess, volcano, etc ahhaa). Even with little to look at, the four flip cycle would be very cool while spinning around with the pulsating lights illuminating the goddess and volcano and such... But it also leads me to the inevitable conclusion: with no sense of mystery (door removal), no sense of adventure (lost music and effects) and no sense of storyline (no preshow, theme, etc) I don't know that it's even worth saving at this point, and I've always been on of the Crypt's biggest supporters! This thread, however, is not about The Crypt. Hah! Sorry, tangent.

^ The Crypt flipped eight times in 2008 and the beginning of 2009. You might call it nine, since once, you were inverted, but didn't continue all the way through the movement. The four-flip cycle was last used on Tomb Raider in 2007. 2002: 1 2002 - 2007: 4 2008 - 2009: 8 2009 - present: 2 ^^ Here's an article on VertiGo at Cedar Point. One of the towers of the ride fell down (many articles use the word "collapsed." I don't know exactly what happened, nor do many people) during the middle of the winter, so it was removed. The concept is a lot like Slingshot's, but Vertigo was air-powered, and the seats were able to rotate up and down, thus allowing riders to face the ground upon decent, face the ground the entire time, or sit upright depending on which side of the apparatus they sat. Notice how the rightmost riders appear to be in seats tilting forward: Photos from www.ultimaterollercoaster.com

Based on the map, it looks that way. I have no idea. But from the looks of the '09 map, The Wild Thornberry's water play structure was very large and very specifically themed. If that's the case, I imagine it was replaced with a more generic, Snoopy-themed one. Probably something along the lines of what our old Spongebob water thing looks like.

That is the pre-Paramount logo... Creepy! It's almost like foreshadowing, isn't it?! Though I don't know much about it, and information is near impossible to find, I'm sure someone on here has some knowledge about the KECO Park that Paramount didn't buy, Australia's Wonderland (It does have a ring to it: Paramount Australia's Wonderland). I get the vibe that it wasn't a major park in the style of Canada's Wonderland, etc. and probably didn't have the fountains, centerpiece, etc., though it did have some rides that may sound familiar to fans of the former Paramount Parks: * Australia's Wonderland photos from this site.

Superman and Drop Zone are both Intamin freefall rides that utilize the same lifting and stopping mechanisms. Vertigo (which I think it what you mean by Cedar Point's bad luck ride) and Slingshot are both different types of attractions that do different things and were made by different manufacturers powered by different means... Just sayin'! Haha.

^ Vortex (at their park, an Arrow suspended coaster) uses the Mountain to disguise its lift hill) And a powered figure-eight Mack coaster runs through tunnels in it: I love the consistency between the first three parks, all have the grand fountains leading up to the Eiffel Tower or Wonder Mountain. Wonder Mountain is beautiful, too. It's very strange (and in some ways, more appropriate) to see the same International Street we have, but with a giant mountain at the end. It makes it feel more like a little Swiss village. I also can't help but think it might've been the inspiration for its sister park's peak:

Arguably! Some interesting things to note from Great America's changeover: Like Kings Dominion, Action Theater is still listed on the map, though no show is specifically mentioned. (As I said earlier) SURVIVOR: The Ride is still called SURVIVOR: The Ride, despite rumors to the contrary. According to the map, The Wild Thornberry's Rain Maze has been demolished (or completely stripped) to make way for the Snoopy's Splashdance water area - the two look like they share nothing in common (replace 09cga with 09cga in the URL to access last years map for comparison) All references to Hanna-Barbera characters are gone from Kidzville - "Pixie and Dixie's Swingset" is now "Swing Swing Swing"; "Top Cat's Car Lot" is now "Classic Cars"; while I'm not sure if it was Scooby related(?), "Mystery Club Inc. Ghost Chase" is now just "Ghost Chasers." Notably, Scooby Doo's Haunted River is now "Kidzville River Adventure." What exactly is this ride? A darkride? A log flume? I'm not sure, but it is not Boo Blasters on Boo Hill, whatever the case. If anyone finds anything else we can update this.