bkroz

We were first for many years... Ah, the days when Kings Island was the flagship. *sigh*.

The Kings Island (and indeed, all Cedar Fair Park) site is riddled with errors. From spelling errors, to complete oversight, and (as you pointed out) missing rides - it's sort of been universally arrived at on this particular website that Cedar Fair doesn't consider the internet a very valued form of information conveyance. Obviously many of us here disagree. As a rabid fan of Tomb Raider: The Ride, it pains to me to see that The Crypt is a "struggle against the fury of nature’s polar opposites" lasting 2:55, flipping 4 times with an exhilarating, action-packed photo that really gets you pumped: My first-year design friends can tell you all the things that are unadventurous about that image, the ride actually lasts under a minute and half, and hasn't flipped four times in at least three years. Those are only a few of the (literally) dozens of errors on the site - major errors, as the one you pointed out. A (nearly) complete list of errors is available by reading through all the pages of this thread, but you can get a good idea of the major problems just via the first post. The Interpreter hit the nail on the head in that thread when he said:

Probably the same as it was last year since last season they didn't have Kidzville or HB (right?) but still smaller than ours, since ours is the largest (isn't it?). Hahha this wasn't a very well-informed post of mine, as you can tell. Looks like today is shaping up to be a map-releasing kind of day! I don't see why two parks would just coincidentally choose a random Wednesday in February... Let's all keep our eyes open! We might learn the Planet Snoopy names today! Wahoo!

It's really surprising to see these new maps - Ours will undoubtedly be the largest Planet Snoopy on Earth (good or bad as that may be). The rest of the parks all had Kidzville areas, Hanna-Barbera areas, and Nick areas, where only to Nick area is converted to Planet Snoopy, with HB being absorbed by the generic Kidzville. Since ours is entirely Nickelodeon, it will likely be entirely Snoopy - I believe both Kings Dominion and Great America only have like, five Peanuts-themed rides each... Very strange since we're anticipating four Peanuts coasters, alone! I'm glad you posted this, too, because SURVIVOR: The Ride is still around, despite rumors out the wazoo that that particular licensing was up this year. I had heard many rumors as to what it would be renamed, so it's very strange but nice (only because some of the replacement names I heard were awful) to see it remains.

I would argue that there are slight differences in the way that the Sportacopters are powered versus Avatar... I'm sure if Kings Island were head-to-head with Cedar Point for most roller coasters, it would be easily disputed that Avatar is not a coaster. As it currently is, I don't think anyone actually cares. It's not likely that a significant number of visitors count up the number of "coasters" proper and then go "Heyyyy they said 15!", promptly visiting guest services to complain about the "false" marketing.

As of last season: 1. Invertigo 2. Flight Deck 3. Son of Beast 4. The Racer 5. Backlot Stunt Coaster 6. Flight of Fear 7. Firehawk 8. The Beast 9. Diamondback 10. Adventure Express 11. Avatar 12. Fairly Odd Coaster 13. Little Bill's Giggle Coaster 14. Runaway Reptar 15. Vortex Now that they're apparently flaunting 14 likely means that Son of Beast is a no-go for this season or Avatar is no longer considered a coaster - like I said, I highly doubt that Son of Beast's status will be announced via a marketing slogan. That said, you know how Cedar Fair likes their coaster counts, and are likely to always count Avatar as a coaster as long as its marketable. Even should it mean Son of Beast will not be operating, let nothing take the place of an official press release except a wrecking ball. Unless one of those two things shows up, consider Son of Beast's future up in the air. That's just my thought.

... Or that they continue to count the ride formerly known as Avatar, and are not counting Son of Beast... Nothing is definitive, and I doubt that the news of Son of Beast will be slyly delivered through cryptic slogans.

I don't think it will change. I hope it won't change. For some reason, only Canada's Wonderland and Kings Dominion's map changed over to the Cedar Fair style. I believe that the reason may be that those were the two Paramount Parks that didn't utilize the Citigraph maps used by the other parks - Canada's Wonderland's was very cartoony (though no where near as much as the Cedar Fair maps) and Kings Dominion's was in between Wonderland's and the Citigraph style. The only reason I'm not sure if the maps will change over is because if the map isn't completely redone for a huge addition like Diamondback, what would be the reason to change it now? It seems like if they were going to change it, they would've back when there was an actual reason. Here are the maps (in decreasing order of realism ) Typical Citigraph maps: Kings Dominion's Old Paramount Map: Canada's Wonderland's Old Paramount Map: Cedar Fair Maps:

http://www.kingsdominion.com/visit/visit_park_map.cfm A list of things that are interesting to note (I'll compile things here if anyone else has comments): Kidsville is remaining generic, uninfluenced by Planet Snoopy, and encompassing the former Hanna-Barbera Land Because all Hanna-Barbera properties are now generic Kidzville, only five attractions are Peanuts themed, as there were only five things that were Nickelodeon themed - obviously, ours will be quite different since instead of some HB, some Kidzville, and some Nick, we had 100% Nickelodeon. The park is sitting in a giant field with absolutely no trees, surrounded by a big plaster fence (yay, Cedar Fair style maps!) The second hill on Intimidator is shown incorrectly, not passing between the first hill's supports at all. Action Theater is still listed as an attraction, though no specific film name is given.

Of course, Epcot (or, E.P.C.O.T. if you're in the know ) was on the drawing boards in a much different form, as were many of the rides currently at Disney Parks. They mean it when they say that no idea ever dies at Disney Imagineering - rides designed in the 80's are just coming to real fruition today (more recently, with added Pixar characters) thanks to advances in technology and loosening in the budget. Some ideas that are "on the drawing board" and have been for decades sound absolutely incredible to me, and should I ever come into ownership of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, I will certainly lobby for them. For example, The Great Muppet Movie Ride.

Absolutely true, but at would mean that this project has been looked at for quite some time - longer, even, than Son of Beast has been shut down, or longer than the Crypt has been running it's (apparently) immensely unpopular two-flip cycle. So if this ride really were earmarked for Kings Island in one of the two places proposed by this thread, it would've been planned pending the destruction of (at that time) one of two perfectly popular, successfully-operating attractions. It just seems unlikely to me. Everyone's opinion of Son of Beast's status has been contingent upon the fact that "Son of Beast is the least of Cedar Fair's worries at present." So I guess I echo that when I say that any replacement for Son of Beast is likely the least of the least of Cedar Fair's worries at present.

I don't see it going in at Kings Island. Not in Rivertown. Those woods are becoming over-saturated, and the trees still haven't grown around Diamondback. Plus, I think it would honestly be one of the worst choices as far as park flow to have the park's three biggest rides (Beast, Diamondback, new coaster) all in the very back corner in a dead-end area. Imagine the traffic problems. For a living example, take a look at Disney's Hollywood Studios where morning, noon and night, Sunset Boulevard (home to park's two world-famous thrill rides and Fantastmic!) looks like a mob scene, absolutely dead-stopped with no traffic flow at all. Now, I believe if Son of Beast must go, it would be incredible to have a new replacement coaster in the works already. That being said, Cedar Fair is really in no condition to be looking at adding new coasters, much less having an outside manufacturer already using topographical information and terrain to design said replacement. It's for that reason that I don't think this coaster is for Kings Island... But is it for Busch Gardens? The skeptic in me sees the entire former Busch family of parks complete devoid of wooden coasters (save Gwazi, and we know how they've enjoyed dealing with him / them!) and says absolutely not. I think it's much more likely (and practical from a PR point of view) to aim towards what everyone is eagerly expecting for Busch Gardens - a flying coaster a la Manta, perhaps in a new country, in the area formerly occupied by Big Bad Wolf and Drachen Fire. Of course, on the other hand, if any country in Busch Gardens Williamsburg could support a fierce wooden coaster, it would be Germany... Perhaps even in a tie-in with DarKastle!

I mean, Top Thrill has a lot of force and everything, but as far as an unexpected sensation of speed, I have to say Incredible Hulk. The uphill launch into a zero-G roll is totally incredible, and it's literally almost impossible to comprehend that it goes only as fast as Backlot Stunt Coaster. That being said, Backlot also has quite a kick compared with what you'd expect. But Hulk has a lot of unexpected force. Of course, it doesn't feel as fast as Top Thrill Dragster or Millennium, but it feels more forceful in respect to its speed than Top Thrill does in relation to its speed. To think Hulk only goes one third the speed of Kingda Ka, it's got at least half the force behind it... That's a significant difference!

Backlot Stunt Coaster is, no kidding, one of my favorite roller coasters. I've been on 100, so it's not like I'm confined to Kings Island. But the experience is just fun! The launch has more of a kick than you'd ever expect, the effects (even in their downgraded form) are incredibly entertaining, the tunnel is literally pitch-black and so disorienting... The ride is just fun! That being said, the Google Maps that was created, if it was kept to scale when created, has honestly convinced me that the ride can (and should) be relocated to where the go-karts are currently. It's obvious that they're probably among the most random and unused rides at the park, with an awful oval-layout (who pays to drive in circles?!). Meanwhile, if it were located there, the Action Zone plaza would radiate out towards FACE/OFF, towards the gigantic Son of Beast, and towards BLSC's "parking garage" structure. It would be a great Weenie (as Mr. Disney would call it), and fit perfectly in the "backlot where an action movie is being themed" scenario. The good news is, anything's possible! Perhaps post-Apollo (or post-whoever-ends-up-with-the-park-this-summer), the park's owner will see the aesthetic benefit of relocating the ride. That being said, please know that our BLSC is in the best condition and best location of the three. Kings Dominion's launches towards the waterpark, and the whole coaster is nestled among waterslides (people always go ape over it being located in the Congo area - it's not. It's made very, very clear that it's in its own little car-themed corner of the park that just isn't noted on the map, the same way it appears Firehawk and Flight of Fear are in the antique-park themed Coney Mall - they're not). Canada's Wonderland's, meanwhile, it literally underneath Behemoth. Imagine if Diamondback's lifthill went right over BLSC and you've got Canada's layout. Now if that doesn't remove any sense of intimidation or intensity from the ride, I don't know what would...

My guess is that the ill-performing parks throughout the chain are probably Worlds of Fun, Great America, Valleyfair, and to an extent, Carowinds. Like Geauga Lake, all of these parks are sort of "local" parks, barely regional in my opinion, and certainly advertise no more than an hour outside the park on television, radio, etc. The thing I notice is that all of them have gotten additions that make them appear to be major parks, but because of their market area, it doesn't increase attendance by much. The locals love having it, but they'd come whether they got a new B&M floorless or not.. That's how I see it anyways. The parks that I would imagine (based only on reputation, how crowded I've seen it, what I've heard, etc) are doing well are Cedar Point, Kings Island, Kings Dominion, Canada's Wonderland, and Knott's. That's not to say they're raking in money, just that they're holding their own. It's also these parks that I can see being taken quite quickly by experienced park-owners should the fate of the parks lie in individual sell-offs. I really hope (this may come back to bite me) that the parks end up being sold off individually - this is a long-shot, hypothetical example, but in my opinion, a major owner (say, Merlin, SWP&E, Universal) would be much much much more likely to buy a couple of the parks if they're sold off individually (see, Kings Island, Kings Dominion, Knott's) than a giant all-or-none package. Universal's Valleyfair? Let's be honest. Universal's Kings Dominion? Still not likely, but much much less of a longshot, if you ask me.

Pretty much every park operator "clones" rides. With Paramount, it was Flight of Fear and Italian Job. With Cedar Fair, it's B&M hypers (among others). With Disney, it's Muppet-Vision 3*D, It's Tough to be a Bug, Tower of Terror, Honey I Shrunk the Audience, Under the Sea: Ariel's Adventure, Star Tours, Toy Story Midway Mania, Soarin', Turtle Talk With Crush, etc. And that's not even including the Disneyland-blueprint park that's very nearly duplicated for each of the five resorts. Many folks (especially Disney-heads) complain about the constant duplication of rides. The fact of the matter is, it reduces costs, improves all of the park's attraction counts, and affords guests at multiple places to have the same experience. The Italian Job is nothing to flock to Kings Island for, but I'm sure the folks at Canada's Wonderland are glad they have one - it's a nice ride to have, increases their coaster-count in the competitive ride standings, and they get to experience it without having to visit us. Much the same way, I'm sure Californians are quite happy to have a copy of Tower of Terror. Believe it or not, most people don't get to visit both resorts (if they can even tell the difference...) so why would anyone on any side of the equation complain?

^ I was taught to understand the diminishing return law as "A $1.00 taco may seem like a really incredible price, because you might be willing to pay $1.25. But if you eat one, and then want a second one, it might only have a real value to you of $.90. Then by time you want a third, that third may only be worth $.70." etc. That suck with me! If Kings Island has three or four coasters around 200 feet tall, there comes a time when people simply won't bother paying to ride the same sort of thing again, because with each new, similar ride, the actual value to the customer drops. But what I'm saying is, Cedar Fair, like all chains, has some big performers (Cedar Point, Kings Island, Knott's Berry Farm, etc) and some parks that are, admittedly, aimed only at local areas, and aren't really meant to be destinations - Great America, Carowinds, Valleyfair, even Dorney... These parks are not meant to be world-class parks. You'd be hard-pressed most days to find a line over 15 minutes. At least, that's my opinion... Just my thoughts!

EDIT: As always, I've rambled. Sorry! I am so worried about how this may work out: The Wizarding World is (as you said) being billed as its own park. At some point, no matter how you slice and dice it, it's three rides (two of which have been at the park, operating, for ten years). Yes, it's "all about the experience", but so are most of the Florida parks. Boil down Islands of Adventure (consistently called one of, if not the best theme park in the United States) and you've essentially got three coasters, three water rides, and two dark rides. As far as "e-ticket" attractions, that's about it. Most Florida parks break down the same way, resulting in a lot of the overall experience being in shops and restaurants. But after claiming there's a complete park waiting for visitors... Let's not forget, Universal's marketing department has gotten itself in trouble before... Remember that Universal Studios Escape mishap that ended up leaving Islands of Adventure with less than expected (and less than deserved) attendance for years? And now this - though the ideas of a "Harry Potter park within a park" was quickly pulled from marketing, its now fixed in people's heads that the Wizarding World is some kind of new theme park by Universal. The article Terpy quoted above even mentioned 'the new park opening on Universal's Island of Adventure,' as if there's one giant Island of Adventure complex that houses multiple theme parks. I think the marketing department has to do some cleaning up right now. Mark my words, I'll be there shortly after opening, as I'm sure many others will be as well. But the extraordinary wait times that will build when three rides (only one of which is new) are touted as an entire theme park dedicated to one of the world's hottest trends... Wow. Though I'm sure Universal Express Pass won't be accepted at HPATFJ, I'm not even sure it'll do much good at the rest of the rides... Imagine the line for Spiderman when guests encounter a four-hour + wait for Harry Potter... On another note, I'm extraordinarily happy to see Dudley under rehab. Islands was, is, and likely will remain my favorite theme park, but it is starting to show its age (nothing to be ashamed of after ten years). Jurassic Park is quite literally depressing from how its fallen into disarray, Hulk is rusting and badly in need of some wheel tightening or something, and the Lost Continent (once the most prominent and incredible of the Islands) is left with two slowly-decaying shows as its only attractions. A park-wide rehab is extraordinarily necessary (and indeed, probable) since the last decade has been spent improving the Studios (Mummy, Simpsons, Men in Black, Rocki, Blue Man Group, etc.) while Islands has been left to skate on its "ahead of its time" slogan. As it is today, though, time is catching up, and hopefully Potter will lead the park back into the future.

Everyone: Kings Island needs a Ferris wheel. Me: We've got one! It's just indoors! *Insert Statler and Waldorf laugh*

And perhaps that's why [Marriott's] Great America is on leased land!

Well, representative of MrSTONEking, if his legal representation is as skilled as his website development team, I think we have very little to fear. But in all seriousness, why would a simple author of a 100-copies-printed book have a legal team? And if you really are a paid representative of MrSTONEking, it's quite sad that he's paying someone to register for Kings Island fan sites under his name to defend his poorly supported arguments... If that's all it takes, I could be a legal assistant, and make big bucks! I'm with Terpy. Honestly. Let's just stop talking about him. Everyone block him, who cares? Te point is, Kings Island is tax-free! Just a thought. Very interesting and incredible thought! Love it.

Maybe they should try to bend out some of The Vortex track's kinks while its accessible. I sure wouldn't complain if they rounded out some of those transitions this off-season. Ah Arrow...

:D :D

I think Swoop would be an okay name! If the sign were like, a big, comic-book-y explosion with those circular pixels of color, and 3-D lettering.. Hahha. I mean, it's really not that bad of a name. Or even something along those lines like Swinger (obvious detractions aside). Hahha! Top Gun, though, is cooler. Of course.

Pay no attention to the riveting John Williams score behind the curtain!