bkroz

I think that what's important to realize at this point is that there have been many injuries on Son of Beast, and that, in the eyes of the law, only one incident (the structure snapping) has been the fault of the ride. Love it or hate it, that's about the extent to which we know the legal side of Son of Beast's situation. And what do we know from Cedar Fair HQ POV? Zero. People are making outrageous claims about insurance and how the policy on Son of Beast is thousands upon thousands of dollars per week and stuff which, quite frankly, we do not know. The ride has been checked and checked again (you say it has the most checks in DoA history in Ohio, I say all the better to ensure the safety of the ride!) and has been found to be NOT at fault through each check except the 2006 incident. Again, I don't claim to be an insider who knows about insurance policies and management discussions and what percent change the ride has because frankly, I don't know. The official Twitter page said that the 2010 map was being worked on a few days ago. At this point, Son of Beast is either on that map, or it isn't. It's as simple as that. At this point we have no idea what the future holds. Next year, that massive wooden structure will either be standing silently, standing with trains running on it, or removed. If it's either of the first two, we'll be sitting here deciding between the three options for the 2011 season just the same.

I think that was cleared up when someone pointed out that many commercial fogs are in fact water-based. No reason to get testy. Hahaha. And Jasper, yes I clearly wrote that down wrong. I don't think anyone who visits the park, much less is a great fan of it, would look at Flight Deck and think it could possibly be newer than The Crypt. Hahha. But then again, in their current states...

For what it's worth, Griffon's splash columns actually strike the track overhead (which you can view in ) at full speed. Diamondback's splash simply rains down on the final ascent before the brake run. So there are multiple guesses we can make from this. Among them, that the water has very little effect on the track condition. Another, that the water does have a large effect, but Busch has been taking care to repaint / care for Griffon's track. If it's the second situation, we can only hope that in future years, Diamondback's will be given the same care to keep the water's effects from being seen.

Looks at picture above hmmm.... don't think that one sits in the water either.... Right, it sits in "fog." First there ought to be some distinctions: The fog used in many rides is in fact a "fog juice," as you said. It's typically transparent red and can be bought by the gallon. However, rides can easily draw from a source of water (SheiKra, Hulk, above) use pressurized water the same you see sort of "hanging" over the water at Kings Dominion's Crypt. It's a mist (sort of a powered-up version of the Coke Oasis, visually), and even appears to the naked eye much less thick and less cloud-forming than fog. It would be silly to constantly be refilling fog machines when there's water all around the track. It's on rides that use mist that the camera gets water droplets on POV videos (again, see Hulk's tunnel, SheiKra's second drop, etc) Steam by its very nature is hot enough to catch paper on fire, so I don't think people are rocketing through steam on any rides. Adventure Express was likely fog, yes. I'm no chemist, but consistently having ANY sort of gaseous substance (that almost inevitably condenses after years of use) will likely whittle away at the track and cars. But that aside, the lack of effects on Adventure Express can likely be chalked up to 1) the actual tactile water effects used on the lift hill WERE damaging the track, and 2) Cedar Fair doesn't do special effects.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Paramount remove Phantom Theater because the Disney-esque animatronics were just too temperamental and expensive? And if arguably the best themed seasonal park operator in American couldn't keep it up... Well... Cedar Fair ('nuff said)... :\

Don't be so hasty looking for a space themed haunted house - Kings Dominion's "Alien Annihilation" is set up year round in the queue for Flight of Fear, so every single day of the operating season, whether its April or October, the queue is filled with 10 foot tall black plywood walls to keep people from seeing the haunted house, all of the Hollywood style lighting in the hanger is off, etc.

In order to effectively use that, they'd have to run both sides. At least on my visits, seeing both sides running (much less racing) is the exception, not the rule.

Notably, Carowinds will feature Snoopy Rocks! On Ice for 2010. Could we see a similar treatment for the Kings Island Theater ice show? Additionally, it appears Marty's Party is staying at Carowinds and not being replaced with any Peanuts themed show.

I voted red like it used to be, because I think it was really striking, but we currently have two red coasters... Granted, neither is like, "red" red, bright red like Top Gun was... So maybe I still think red, so long as it's like it used to be. But if not, a baby blue would be okay. I want it to be bright and striking, but different from Vortex. Silver supports and baby blue track would look nice. And put an end to the current red-obsession going on.

It's more than just the paint, it's the very way that the track is made. Do you think Diamondback's splashdown will look ANYTHING like Italian Job's in the next three years? Undoubtedly, no. It's the fabrication of the track that's important, more than the paint. But that aside, no, I don't think we'll ever see a "plussing" of Adventure Express. Why? Because to my knowledge, Cedar Fair's never gone out of their way to re-evaluate a steel coaster. Not even in track. So Cedar Fair deciding suddenly to not only revisit the track of an early 90's coaster, but to repeal their vendetta on themeing with it... I don't think it would ever happen. And while Adventure Express is a fun ride, should Cedar Fair ever decide that theme in general isn't the spawn of all evil, I have other places I'd love to see that new found creativity channeled to. In a sort of off-topic way, that's really one of the main reasons I'm upset about the Planet Snoopy thing. I haven't got a problem with Snoopy, and Nick Universe was admittedly getting dated, but with three attractions (arguably four) literally begging for ANY sort of attention management is willing to sacrifice (see, Flight Deck, The Crypt, Son of Beast, Adventure Express), I don't think that our only capitol expenditure this season out to be in redoing a children's area that's already proven successful. Yes, Nick has to go, but it still is just an aspect of Cedar Fair's management I'm displeased with - our park has four rides that need desperate help, some of our sister parks have far more.. And yet, they're likely going to be left limping through the 2010 season so we can welcome Snoopy. To me, that isn't the way to incentivise investors or visitors, who are not as naive as Cedar Fair HQ would like to think - the general public DOES realize Scooby is leaving, The Crypt is falling apart, Son of Beast is in shambles, Flight Deck is gray and light gray (with accents of dark gray), and Adventure Express is a severely saddened version of its former self. You can't simply brush these aspects of the park under the rug, when four rides that are less than ten years old are on the chopping block or already gone (Scooby Doo, The Crypt, Son of Beast), while even newer rides are severely neglected (Italian Job, Adventure Express, Flight Deck). Just my thoughts.

*Flashback to the news headlines* Universal Eyes Paramount Parks *Flash forward to Adventure Express indeed containing what you've listed above, Tomb Raider fully functioning, Italian Job bigger and better than ever in the effect department, costumed employees... Ahhhhh... If only.*

They certainly didn't release a press-release about it or anything, but one can assume that it was due to budgetary concerns. After all, they've shut off (or not turned back on) the water effects on four rides at Kings Island (Top Gun, The Crypt, Adventure Express, and Italian Job). The Backlot one is more understandable - have you seen the track in the former splashdown? And the water barely even contacted the actual track, so just imagine having fog sprayed on a piece of track once every 45 seconds or so.. The Tomb Raider / Crypt water effects are also understandable - the ride barely runs, and I'm sure they got sick of draining it every day to put up ladders to get to the ride.

B&M's track is fabricated MUCH better than Premier track. It withstands the water to the extent that the paint doesn't chip off and the track itself doesn't rust. ANY ride exposed to constant water will need repainting, but B&Ms require far less actual work. And yeah, my mistake about Adventure Express fog being Pre-Paramount, but they took the idea and ran with it. If we were to make a list of all the rides built with water effects, but turned off by Cedar Fair we could compile quite a list: Kings Island The Crypt Backlot Stunt Coaster Adventure Express Cedar Point Maverick Magnum Kings Dominion Backlot Stunt Coaster Anaconda Worlds of Fun Thunderhawk Those are the only Cedar Fair parks Ive been to, but that's quite a lot of water shut off in the last two years. Though, based on their finances, can you blame them?

I had a chance to talk with the operations director of Rivertown, who was quick to let me know that (and I quote) "Paramount made a lot of rides interact with water without thinking of the long-term effects," specifically referencing Adventure Express, Tomb Raider, and the Italian Job by name. So, don't hold your breath looking for fog to return to any of those rides. Really. Especially with Cedar Fair. Paramount had naivete to its negative impact, and had a budget and specialty for it. Cedar Fair has neither.

As it is, I'd probably put Flight of Fear's repaint second to last (second to Diamondback) on the priority list. It could use dusting, that's for sure, but I think even the crews hired to paint it would find something incredibly ironic and ridiculous about the process. If Cedar Fair decides to allot us paint money, put it where it's needed: Flight Deck, Backlot, etc. If there's money left in the paint budget, Invertigo could be returned to its original vibrancy, and it would always be nice to see The Racer flaunting it's red white and blue.

Not necessarily an error, but definitely interesting is the Trademark page, which includes all CBS and Paramount trademarks, including things like "BORG INVASION 4D" "TOMB RAIDER: The Ride" and "MINI COOPER."

There are quite a few people who consider the loop the only redeeming feature of Son of Beast, and consider the loops removal as the point when Son of Beast went downhill. I don't necessarily agree, but I think hindsight bias has made that the opinion of a very large amount of the general public. And if we've got looping water slides, I truly do think we'll be seeing a looping wooden coaster again in the future, though it's hard to say if it would be in the United States. And in my opinion, if anyone would do it, it would be Intamin. They have proven to be able to tackle the scale of large coasters (El Toro, T Express, etc.) and I believe if any wooden coaster were to deserve the recognition of having a loop, it would be an Intamin. Granted, it wouldn't necessarily have the "ferocity" of Son of Beast, what with the pre-fabricated track, but would be doubtlessly rank up there with the great wooden coasters. And as has been said, I doubt there'd be a reach for a "conqueror" coaster to break all records like Son of Beast. A mid-height pre-fab coaster with a loop would likely be really well-received if done correctly. And if Cedar Fair wants to be in Intamin to place such a ride on the rubble of Son of Beast, I greatly encourage it.

If not having an invert or stand up is the defining factor, then a LOT of parks on your list must be serverly below average... Especially the ones that don't have a unique sampling of B&M, Premier, Arrow, John Allen, and Vekoma, not to mention The Beast. We have a highly-themed LIM launch coaster, a family-oriented launch with special effects, an Invertigo, the worlds longest wooden roller coaster, a flying coaster, a arguably top-5 mine train, one of five remaining suspended coasters, four kids coasters (enough to earn us recognition for our #1 kids area), a classic John Allen racer, one of the better Arrow megaloopers... People within this thread are rating Kings Dominion below Kings Island, and it has an invert (not B&M, but a full-circuit invert nonetheless) and a near-clone of our old stand-up coaster (which was removed to make way for our incredible family of flat rides, which aren't even considered in this post, but still worth mentioning). If quality coasters are those you'd wait over an hour for, and you require more than 3 to call a park "average," a number of the parks on Earth are immediately dismissed for having only two adult coasters (including every Disney park, all of which have "quality coasters" in the majority's opinion). At Cedar Point, I personally would gladly wait over an hour for Millennium and Maverick, and that's all. At Worlds of Fun, I wouldn't wait over an hour for any of their coasters. Just some interesting thoughts, I guess. I do somewhat agree with what you said, and understand your reasoning, I'm just trying to bring about a different perspective. We're cool!

Noooo haha I said regardless of their current statuses, we had one of the larger Six Flags parks. I was talking about Ohio's theme park collection, and Six Flags: Worlds of Adventure.

Being from Ohio, we're quite lucky. Regardless of their current statuses, we did have Cedar Fair's flagship, Paramount's flagship, and one of the larger Six Flags parks. States like Pennsylvania have quite a few parks, but mostly local, family parks, and would be quite impressed by our collection. Likewise, people from Orlando may rate us as average, or slightly below. But from my simple experience, I view Kings Island's collection as being above average. There truly are not many park that can say they have a B&M hyper, a family launch coaster with Hollywood special effects, a John Allen racer, an indoor launch coaster, a Vekoma Invertigo, an Arrow megalooper, an Arrow suspended, etc. and that doesn't even touch on The Beast or Son of Beast, or our dozen or so notable records or specialties. I can see how, depending on your travel history, you may say we have an "average" collection. But I couldn't see the rationalization for anything below "average." If we have an "average" collection, what does Kennywood have?

Awe man! You're good, Kevin... My two cents! Truthfully, the similarities between Kings Island and Kings Dominion stop at International Street (and they really aren't even similar there, either). I honestly would consider moving to Virginia, if only for the close proximity to Kings Dominion and Busch Gardens. Kings Dominion is a beautiful, beautiful park. Honestly, it feels as if the entire thing was built in a deep forest. International street is completely shaded by trees... BIG trees. Nick Universe is in a forest, The Congo actually looks like a jungle (and in all seriousness is unquestionably the best looking themed area at any amusement park I've ever been to outside of Florida / California). The only ride that the two parks have in common is Flight of Fear, and theirs is in the dark so it's a different experience anyway. But really, Dominator, Volcano, Grizzly, Shockwave, The Crypt (which, by the way, theirs is in no danger of removal - it's absolutely the best flat there, and no one questions it... Remember back when Islanders laughed at Kings Dominion for getting an "outdoor, downgraded" version of Tomb Raider: The Ride? Joke's on us, folks...). It's a fantastic park, definitely a "destination" and someplace to travel for. I've never been to Carowinds, but to me it feels like post-X-Flight Geauga Lake - somewhat of a local park, definitely fun for people who live in the Carolinas but not necessarily a destination. That being said, Intimidator seems to be changing that idea. However, to be realistic, I feel like Kings Dominion offers a greater variety and overall collection of coasters and other rides, and while Carowind's Intimidator looks fantastic, it doesn't merit a twelve-hour drive for me, only because to be fair, I've already ridden its older and bigger brother. Now, if I was five or so hours from Carowinds, I might hit it up, but if its only drawing factor is Intimidator... Well, it's a little crazy to go all that way for something you've essentially ridden. Not sure if I'm allowed to link "between sites," but my trip report from Kings Dominion, broken down by each ride, is available here.

Agreed! Kings Island was Paramount's flagship, and now is arguably "second in command." We'd likely see a sale of all the other former Paramount Parks (perhaps save only Kings Dominion) before Kings Island were to go. But that would open a whole new can of worms... If Kings Dominion were sold, would one of the parks have to de-alienize their Flight of Fear? Rename International Street? Retheme The Crypt? The parks are a bit too eerily similar to be separated from each other. I suppose that can be said of all of the Paramount Parks, though.

Why can this not mean "three parks other than Cedar Point"? You know what I mean? Like, new parks will be getting it, that haven't had it before. Instead of "three parks that aren't getting the Snoopy thing".

Perhaps Kings Island could get a Starlight Experience, that was just a long, light-infested pathway through The Beast woods. Not close enough to distract from The Beast, of course, but just a quarter mile walking path through the woods with all the lights surrounding you... Or perhaps back where Trail of Terror is!

Well for what it's worth (a grain of salt), Screamscape had rumored that Kings Island and Worlds of Fun were to be the recipients next year. Just sayin'.