bkroz

Via Kings Island's Twitter:

Their big marketing push this week is for folks from Michigan. The little advertisement even mentions "with most Ohio kids back in school, there's no better time to visit," and specifically mentions "less competition for a seat on Maverick or a hug from Snoopy." I'd really love to see the competition for a hug from Snoopy - must be a blood bath!

I believe it's entirely appropriate for rides to have sponsors. That adds incentive from a third party to keep a ride operating its best, and provides the amusement park with the opportunity to spend more to improve the ride. Disney has used sponsors from its earliest days. "Test Track, presented by General Motors." "The Enchanted Tiki Room, presented by Dole Food." Previously, "Space Mountain, presented by FedEx" and "Indiana Jones Adventure, presented by AT&T," usually with one simple logo places under the ride's logo and perhaps a small advertisement at the exit. In my opinion, though, that's different than having a train wrapped in Stride Gum appliques. Once or twice on my trip to Six Flags Great America, I couldn't tell what ride I was looking at because the station, queue, and train all had advertisements for Skittles hanging over the ride's names and decor. That's a shame in my opinion, but perhaps Six Flags' financial situation requires that they forego guest experience to recoup lost finances for a period. What's interesting to me is that folks are noticing, despite so many people's promise to the contrary. "A coaster is a coaster," so many said when I posted when this first started happening. But even the "general public" seems to be a little annoyed by it, and it just so happens that it annoyed someone in a media-based position. A few more of those and perhaps even more will take notice. You gotta do what you gotta do I suppose.

According to the park's Rider Safety Guide, there are test seats at the entrance to Delirium, Diamondback, and The Crypt. Backlot Stunt Coaster and Flight of Fear are both a squeeze because they're so tight and low-set, and have ankle restraints.

Again, do a short search and you'll see that the water was removed for a very good reason. The water was damaging to the track - Premier Rides (the coaster's manufacturer) apparently use a different method of sealing their steel than B&M, and the track on The Italian Job was beginning to corrode and rust thanks to the exposure to water. Also, just this year, Cedar Fair fixed all three fire elements, added new LED lights to the helicopter scene, and added a brand-new musical score to that portion of the ride. I'm not sure what else they can do to show that they're invested in it. If you require water effects, then you can have them, but the ride will be straight up demolished in 3 - 5 years thanks to the consequences of having that water. Sound good? Didn't think so. P.S. I, too, liked when I could "ride my favorite movies." But don't kid yourself into thinking it was some tremendous experience... Flight Deck is exactly the same as Top Gun was in its final years. FACE/OFF, for better or worse, is identical to Invertigo. Drop Tower is only a bit different from Drop Zone. The only rides impacted were Backlot Stunt Coaster (which still resembles the finale of the Italian Job movie to an incredible degree) and The Crypt (which was the only real loss when you think about it). I would also argue that some guests (maybe even many) didn't know Drop Zone or FACE/OFF were movies at all. I, for one, just thought they were great names. I don't think Paramount's intention was to reference the movies so much as it was to use a name they had in their catalogue that fit well. A bit of both, probably, but not overkill.

For what it's worth, after only having been relocated from Geauga Lake for 2009 season, Kings Dominion's "El Dorado" flat ride is for sale. The curious thing is not only that it's only been at the park for 2 years, but that it is located directly at the far end of their Grove section, which is essentially their version of Coney Mall. In other words, it's almost exactly where our WindSeeker is if you superimpose the two areas on top of each other. Clearing out El Dorado would open up the entire plaza at the end of the long mall. That plaza is where Hypersonic SLC used to be, and has been very obviously empty ever since it left. Even after El Dorado and Americana from Geauga Lake were put in, it still looks very off. Turning the entire plaza into a nice base around a WindSeeker would look pretty great... Just sayin'! http://www.screamsca...gs_dominion.htm

Um no.. the Crypt is an excellent attraction... or is was before Cedar Point.. err Cedar Fair started messing with it. Just like taking the water out of BLSC for no apparent reason. No apparent reason? This is what I was talking about in my lengthy post above. You say "the Crypt [was] an excellent attraction ... before Cedar Fair started messing with it." I remind you that, even before Cedar Fair purchased the Paramount Parks, and even when that particular ride was still called TOMB RAIDER: The Ride, it was in a state of disrepair. Even under the Paramount flag, even when the movie tie-in still existed, the ride was on its last leg. Mechanically, as we've noticed, it seemed to be in a state of turmoil. It was closed far, far more than it was open, even closing in late summer of one season and not re-opening until the next summer. Under its last years as TOMB RAIDER, it had absolutely no music (the ride taking place in complete silence, which really put a damper on the experience) and the once-great theatrical lighting was reduced to about what you see on The Crypt today. But humans, on average, like to average things. And they also tend to like very clear, precise groupings. As such, we (incorrectly) tend to associate Paramount with Tomb Raider with great lighting, water, music, lasers, effects, and fog. Then, we associate Cedar Fair with no music, minimal lighting, no fog, no water, a ride that's always broken... In my experience, The Crypt of 2011 operates with more lighting and music than the Tomb Raider of 2005... And the key word in that sentence is operates. The ride is usually open, which is far more than anyone could say of TOMB RAIDER: The Ride. Was TOMB RAIDER a better experience? In my opinion, yes. Did it have grand ambition and an initial grandeur unmatched by other seasonal park rides? Again, I'd say yes. And I was young when I rode it - impressed by the immersion and size, and far too naive to actually consider the operating cost to the park, or the mechanical wear-and-tear on the ride itself. It was an incredible ride, of course. But it didn't stay that way. Like most of Paramount's special-effects-driven rides, it experienced a very steady, very noticeable decline. It was not that Cedar Fair ripped out everything worthwhile the second they signed the dotted line to buy the parks. Rather, it seems that they did what they could with the experience they had and the material and limitations they were given. Also, I encourage you to spend more time around these parts, qscott86. I have learned many a fact from many wise people here, and just a short search will yield plenty of results on why water (also in fog form) was removed from rides like The Crypt, Backlot Stunt Coaster, Adventure Express, and Flight Deck. It was not for "no apparent reason." For a long time, I thought that the special effect lighting on Cedar Point's Maverick was removed for "no apparent reason." I recently learned differently, and now I don't vilify that park quite as much in that regard.

11. Linus' Launcher 12. Dinosaurs Alive! 13. The Crypt 14. Snoopy Surf Dog ^ In all fairness, that 1-5 scale isn't necessarily an indication of how thrilling a ride is. It's a safety scale that's determined by the forces experienced on a ride, and the change in elevation / direction and whether it's expected or unexpected. The Crypt, for example, is a 5. May be a relatively tame ride, but you do experience many unexpected forces and rapid changes in direction and orientation. Apparently, according to Cedar Fair's standards, Drop Zone's experience is a little less intense...

I think when people say they "miss Paramount," what they truly mean is that they miss when the rides' names still contained film titles, but not much more. Just from what I've seen here, it appears that a lot of the Paramount-lovers (myself included) were young during their era in the park. As such, I recall The Italian Job being far, far grander than Back Lot Stunt Coaster. Was it? Probably not. But it's what I knew; it's what made me fall in love with Kings Island; and to me, Paramount's Kings Island will always be the "original" Kings Island (others who were here before Paramount will always imagine Taft's Kings Island as the "original," and more rightly so). Another thing that I try to remember is that, despite our rose-colored, hindsight glasses, Paramount was arguably worse at special effects maintenance than Cedar Fair. Sure they extended themselves to begin with, but had very little interest in upkeep. Cedar Fair scaled Paramount's exorbitant effects on each ride to a smaller, more realistic spectacle much more appropriate for a seasonal park, and actually does work to keep it functioning. The unfortunate part of that is that most of the effects were already dead when Cedar Fair took over, but because they changed the name, many (myself included) naturally tend to associate the dead effects with their arrival. In reality, the were dead before they came at all. All in all, I agree that the park felt grander and more "epic" and dramatic during Paramount's reign, and I certainly feel that the details are sorely missed (The Paramount Story, the more obscure effects that the rides had in their hey day, etc) but I also recognize that more than likely, Backlot Stunt Coaster might be in worse shape than it is now if it still carried the Italian Job name, and it would be a miracle if Tomb Raider: The Ride was even still standing. Paramount - if they were smart - would've also closed Son of Beast, and eventually even the best of their themed attractions would do as they always had: crumbled to nothing. Winterfest was a last-ditch ploy to sell the park as a year-round destination and not a heartfelt attempt to honor the park's history. Terpy often says that he doesn't know if the park could've lasted much longer under CBS' leadership. What does that tell you? Cedar Fair runs the park well, and with the lone exception of special effects maintenance and detail-oriented presentation, I have very few qualms with their ownership of the park. It just so happens that I am a detail-oriented kind of guy, so my initial reaction (like the OP's) was that Cedar Fair sucks because it has The Crypt, Backlot, Flight Deck, etc. where Paramount's Kings Island had TOMB RAIDER, The Italian Job, and Top Gun.

I would be cautious of this. We're still in the infancy of the park under Cedar Fair, so it's hard to say that the pattern they've expressed in the past is what we ought to expect for the future. Paramount built The Italian Job: Stunt Track. Firehawk was an uprooted ride from Geauga Lake. Just because a coaster was added every other year under the previous owner and during the park's rapid expansion under Cedar Fair doesn't mean that's going to be normal. Now that the park has two large coaster thrill rides and is sufficiently "beefed up" to the usual Cedar Fair standard, it may not be that we get a coaster all the time. And I personally won't complain about that. I was near tears at the additions this year (WindSeeker is a great ride, but also the new lights, themeing, music, effects all over the park... Dinosaurs, too), and would much prefer more years like this to more years of one giant coaster addition and not much else. Not forever, of course, but there's no harm in it for a few seasons at a time.

Crazy enough? I feel like the loop was probably the most successful part of the ride from a comfort and marketing point of view! Perhaps the size could be reduced or something.

I don't believe so. I don't think so (and who'd have wanted it to? Ouch!) The fog on the helicopter scene? . I think it was supposed to replicate a pipe being shot and some sort of gas being expelled. Take a look at the [edit: former] splashdown to see how Premier track interacts with water. (Wasn't SFNO's Batman the only ride that was still in ship-shape post-Katrina? Thanks B&M!) It was shown that way in the presented to announce the ride, but things often change between point A and point B (see Maverick)... Sometimes stuff is added and sometimes it's removed... They leave the station at the same time and return at the same time, and thus go the exact same speed. If the back went faster, wouldn't it ram into the front? No, our Flight of Fear and its identical twin at Kings Dominion were the first roller coasters to used Linear Induction Motors (LIMs) to launch the train using electricity. Backlot Stunt Coaster uses the same technology (the metallic fins hanging off the cars and the white fixtures with fin-shaped slits running down the launch track). Launched coasters have been around for a long time. Kings Island even had Screamin' Demon, a launched coaster, until 1987. Flight of Fear is just the first to use that specific LIM technology (which is now quite wide-spread).

Personally I feel like Kings Island won't try to outdo The Beast. Even if it ends up not being the longest in the world, there's still much to be said about being the longest wooden coaster in America. Wasn't the Son of Beast purposefully left a few hundred feet shorter just so that The Beast could retain the record? And while many records don't seem to typically be "well known" by the public (especially Cedar Fair's traditionally far-reaching ones), even they seem to know that The Beast is the world's longest wooden coaster. My personal opinion is that with so many well-versed wooden coaster creators nowadays (including Intamin's plug-and-play and GCI), a tallest, fastest wooden coaster could be successful. After all, after Son of Beast, the #2, #3, and #4 slot for tallest wooden coasters all go to Intamin, and if anyone might attempt a wooden loop again, I can see it being Intamin. The question is, would Cedar Fair pay the undoubtedly massive price that any company would charge to conquer those records again? But I think there is truth to the idea that Kings Island is a sort of 'wooden coaster capital' in a sense. If Cedar Fair did decide to create a wooden behemoth the way they've so long focused on steel ones, I should hope Kings Island would be at the top of their list... One of the most important wooden coasters historically, one of the 'best' wooden coasters annually... A real record breaker really would be at home. It would be a nod to the past and a testament to the future. Of course, that was a different Cedar Fair. The new company may like to tread carefully, and maybe that's best. But seriously... a 200 foot Intamin pre-fab with a loop. Can you imagine? Talk about putting KI on the map... The Travel Channel specials would write themselves. (And so would the marketing: Son of Beast was a real brat, but now he's on his best behavior. Son of Beast: REBORN. Only at Kings Island.) Dreamer? You bet. But I'm not the only one.

And generally, if you are privy to information that has not yet been officially announced by the park and you decide to share it in a public place (especially here, where Kings Island officials are known to visit), you may find yourself without a job very quickly. I'd guess that they don't tell seasonal employees about future additions for just such reasons. With Haunt, it's got to be a little different since they need to assign people to haunted houses and thus must give away some secrets in the process. Still, it not only ruins the fun for us, but may ruin your employment with them if you release Kings Island's plans before they're made official... Just sayin'!

But wait, haven't we heard that transporting a roller coaster from one park to another costs nearly as much as purchasing a new one? The old ride has to be de-constructed precisely, transported literally from coast-to-coast, repainted, re-built from the ground up, tested, staffed... Maybe not $15 million or anything, but wouldn't the relocation of Invertigo from California's Great America cost more than one million? Perhaps not, because I don't know what either FACE/OFF or Invertigo cost initially (though, I believe Action Zone's two year re-make being a reported $40, and Son of Beast being $20 million worth of that. That leaves $20 million to be spread among FACE/OFF, Drop Zone, and the cosmetic re-do). Still doesn't sound like transporting a coaster could come in under a million... If it did, we could switch our entire fleet with Wonderland's and give people some new experiences for a cool $30 million! EDIT: Or was that relocation-cost figure part of the promotion machine and not a real fact? Either way, a million sounds very cheap.

^ Amen. Truly my ideal situation (as unlikely as it may be) is to have literally a clone of Kings Dominion's suspended top spin (with the same rock-work, water features, backdrop, etc) placed inside our building. Combined with our goddess carving, our theatrical lighting, and our volcano stretching up the back wall, it would truly be a sight to behold! Plus, if the music and lighting were re-worked correctly, just imagine the experience: sitting down and hearing the waterfalls all around you, then as the ride begins a few lights start revealing the extensive scenery around you, then a few flames shoot up from the side of the ride... The water fountains illuminated from beneath and the fire erupting below... A real thrill, and with incredible themeing, lighting, music, effects, etc. Sure, the building would need ventilated and re-coded and the ride might actually need to be weather-proofed by the manufacturer, but I imagine it would easily be the best-themed top spin in the world, and certainly one of the better flat rides. Realistic? Maybe not. But in a perfect world...

I imagine that probably a lot of construction is putting up walls in the places that'll house haunts. Last year, wasn't most of the decorating and tomb stones and cobwebs type stuff done during the period where the park's closed during the week?

From Kings Island's Twitter: SPOILER ALERT (highlight to read): HOLIDAY HORROR A blast from the past, in more ways than one? Reviving some props from 2005, and 2007?

But if you're thirsty, will a Cedar Fair Platinum Pass get you unlimited soft drink beverages on tap all summer long? Or all the sunscreen your skin can absorb? With a Holiday World season pass, a drive to the park for refreshments may be cheaper for some than a drive to the grocery store for the same beverages in a can! Oh, but wait, those drinks are free anyway, right? A Cedar Fair Platinum Pass pays for itself in about three visits to parks. Holiday World's pass is about the same, right? Three visits and its paid for? And while I've never been, I know a number of people who'd prefer to ride those three roller coasters than all thirty of Kings Island's & Cedar Point's combined... Not sure if I'd necessarily agree with them, but that's the quality people perceive of Holiday World! And that speaks volumes to me! Also, are those two October weekends the dates of their new Halloween celebration? And hasn't Six Flags / Cedar Fair occasionally said they'd make their Halloween events a hard ticket event? They just haven't yet had the intestinal fortitude... Instead of making it free, then trying to back track, Holiday World appears to be making it an up-charge from the beginning. I could be wrong!

Perhaps those dozens of country-themed animatronics positioned around the waterway will be replanted near Shoot The Rapids... Lord knows it could use a prop or two... And the whole "feuding hillbillies" story might actually come to light if there's some drunk men with pop guns shooting at each-other over your heads.

I think this ride is very different than Behemoth. It has one or two airtime hills, but so does Millennium Force, yet no one compares it to Magnum (which, like Behemoth, is all airtime). Being from the same manufacturer, I think they'll ride similarly, and yes I'd have loved to see an innovated train design, but aside from the out-and-back layout and a few airtime hills, I don't think these two rides are redundant. Similar? Sure. Cousins? I'd go there. Like people here have said, Behemoth & Leviathan are two related, giant mythological creatures. Why shouldn't the rides be related? But experience-wise, I think they'll be day and night. Plus, the general public tends to not know the difference between manufacturers. A coaster is a coaster. I imagine many people would tell you that coasters are designed and built on-site. And in my opinion, if I didn't know their manufacturer was the same I'd be even less apt to look for similarities. I agree with the initial "huh?" reaction, but on further examination I really don't think they'll have any problems. If Kings Island were getting it post-Diamondback, we wouldn't complain!

If it is Leviathan, than I should hope they play up the water thing. If Behemoth is the land monster (with an appropriately land-centered coaster), then the best thematic thing to do would be to have Leviathan be very water-based, with Kraken-like tunnels, mist, fake rock work, waterfalls, etc. Anything else would seem silly, especially since they have the perfect setup to capitalize on this land vs. sea vs. air mythology... But after Maverick, maybe we won't even know till it opens. So many tunnels and props were put in that CG promotional video that didn't make it into the final product, I'd expect that they'd rather show the ride's layout completely bare than to overestimate their themeing again and lead to a let down. Diamondback's video only showed those massive rocks in the splashdown, and even they didn't make it in the end.

AH! I have never seen the harm in having her eyes light up. Has Cedar Fair not done all they can in hiding her? I have heard that she's painted black, though I can't tell how anyone could be sure since she was just stone-colored to begin with... The point being, as long as it technically maintains nothing more than the look of glowing red eyes on the wall, why can't they light up? I don't know the ins and outs of agreements and contracts and licensing, but it seems to me that, even if the whole "fire and ice" elemental thing were not allowed, there shouldn't be a massive problem with some glowing red eyes. And yet again, I'm fascinated and exhilarated by the idea of these slight, but very purposeful changes taking place. There was thought put into the decision to aim the lights at her, and certainly a bit of re-programming of the show lights, so it was a very conscious choice, and I think that's awesome. GYK, who still maintains that a very worthwhile investment for Kings Island would be the purchase of a new suspended top spin (or a new, properly-braked Giant model that should cost next to nothing after all the problems they've encountered) and the purchasing of the Lara Croft: Tomb Raider rights... Can individual film properties be licensed? I truly think it would be a worthwhile investment for the park, and that the marketing would really be incredible. "In 2013, the Adventure is Reborn..." After all, don't they know the major issues? The problems with water, the brakes, the original capacity... It seems to me that a new, re-done Tomb Raider would be an easy sell to customers who fondly recall the old ride, and a great viral marketing promotion. I just can't see how such an investment would top $10 million if done properly (using so much of what's already there,) so it would even leave budgetary room for infrastructure improvements that season). And perhaps Ouimet will understand the importance of go-away green and few trees to block the show building...

What goes up must come down! And with one loading/unloading station, vice versa...

Three trips to Cedar Point (On-line discount $49.99 x 3) + three days of parking ($12 x 3) = (149.97) + ($36) = $185.97 I know for certain I have visited Cedar Point three days this year, Kings Island six, Geauga Lake one, and I will be spending two days this week at Kings Dominion. I would say that my pass has more than paid for itself, and since I am one of the Platinum Pass holders who does not buy food, drink, or gifts inside the parks, Cedar Fair is paying me to visit their establishments. Just counting my eleven days at the theme parks ($12.00) and one day at the water park ($7.00), I would have paid $139 in parking fees alone. If you plan to actually use a Platinum Pass, you will get your money's worth and more. $165.00 is a steal for travelers, and $179 would be a steal, too.