McSalsa

Thanks! I had no idea Wikipedia even had this feature.

"Talk" page? Huh? I am confused...I've never been to that part of Wikipedia before...how do you get to it?

Ugh. More Wikipedia being "Wikipedia"... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WindSeeker It is still listing the WindSeeker rides as being SBNO. Last time I checked, they were all operating, save Knott's Berry Farm...can someone fix this? I don't know how to edit Wikipedia...thanks.

Ze plot thickens.

Hmm...well, I was looking at Kings Island on google Earth today, and I noticed something interesting...not even related to the 2014 construction much, but to start...(WARNING: Lame Paint Images ahead!) Action Zone 2014 with the rumored Giga Coaster. Pink squiggly line is the q-line. The Former AZ water tower is replaced by a huge entry plaza for the new ride. However, the SOB station sits un-used except for the Wolf Pack haunt, until Wolf Pack vanishes for some reason in 2017...Timberwolf Ampitheatre is also destroyed...then, in 2018... A wing coaster opens, using the old SOB station! It uses the old SOB q-line, too. OK, in all honesty this is actually not very likely. By 2018, Vortex and/or Flight Deck will probably (and sadly) have kicked the bucket, and even if not, the next expansion will probably be in X-Base or something as Action Zone will have just gotten a huge new ride a few years earlier. I just thought it interesting that this possibility even exists...

^ Dive Machines, named so because they can drop over 200' straight down at a 90-degree angle. Often with a holding brake on the drop, for added suspense. And they usually have more than 1 drop, and also have included inversions and splashdowns.

^ Hmm...good point...ok, how about the lift slows down to a near-crawl at the top (kind of what Beast at KI does), then the train goes into the pre-drop which allows it to gain back it's speed, then the real drop occurs...and the rest is the same...

^ Oh yes...one of the things I hate about most of these big coasters is that they get you to the top so fast, there is no time to realize "oh fudge I am 300+ feet up!" like on some other coasters. Beast at Kings Island gives you a second to realize how high you are. So does the 205' Magnum XL200 at Cedar Point. I say, have a pre-drop like that 300' up with a well-placed trim brake that nearly stops the train...you realize you are 300' up, enjoying/fearing the view...then the coaster dives 300' into a tunnel at 90+mph! That is how I think you kick off a roller coaster perfectly. EDIT: On second though, maybe not...read my next post...

^ I agree- Leviathan is going along great, you're having an awesome ride...then it ends abruptly with that brake run when it can clearly go a few thousand more feet easily. Alas, the fact there is an old Arrow Looping coaster in the way may have been part of this...Kings Island, you do not have this limitation, so do not do this! If it is 7,000+ feet or longer, so be it! As I stated earlier in this thread, too, a twister-style layout would also be welcome in my eyes...and, seeing how the land is cleared, it may be such a layout, or at least feature some twister elements...like a giant helix with good laterals. (Oh, the irony if the ride does have a giant helix, given those where a main feature of the ride it is replacing...) And, if early reviews of Gatekeeper are to be trusted, B&M may have found their "make forceful" button at last...which I also hope makes it in this ride if it is a giga, which would basically create this duo: Diamondback -B&M "Hyper" Mega Coaster -230' tall, 215' drop, 80mph -Emphasis on Airtime -Weak-ish forces besides airtime so the GP can enjoy it easily -Stadium Style Seating, 8 cars per train, 3 trains -Splashdown Finale -Out and Back Layout -No Tunnels Rumored Giga "Banshee" -B&M "Giga" Mega Coaster -308' tall, 300' drop, 93mph (McSalsa's estimates, not real stats. ) -Good airtime, but greater emphasis on other forces like positive-gs and laterals as well, as well as a few high-speed low-to-the-ground sections -More forceful, still not to the point the GP will hate it, but enough to make the ride clearly feel more intense and aggressive than Diamondback -Classic 4-across seating, 9 (or maybe even 10!) cars per train, 3 trains -No Splashdown Finale (not really even needed, seeing where the brake run will probably be, it would hardly even be visible anyway!) -Twister Layout -Possible Tunnels (w/ Fog effects for extra night ride bonus? ) ^This is kind of what I'm pulling for, if it is a giga coaster...it lets Diamondback have a purpose (GP-friendly B&M Mega Coaster) and at the same time adds a monster ride that enthusiasts can enjoy (but the GP still can too) all while boosting Flight Deck, Drop Tower, & Delirium ridership in a manner similar to what Firehawk did for Flight of Fear. Oh, and another idea...I see the area where the water tower once was becoming a huge plaza with the ride's logo and shops around it, as well as Drop Tower, Congo Falls, and Delirium...similar to Leviathan and Gatekeeper. (Matt Ouimet did say he loves this idea of huge plazas for large new coasters)...in fact, I'd say this part will probably happen no matter what type of ride this is... Wow, I respond to a comment on Leviathan's brake run like this? Man, new coasters make my imagination run wild...

I know...I was just being hypothetical. (And wanted to list Magnum last...) As for that piece of equipment, it seems like a bulldozer. Or possibly one of those tiny front-end loaders.

^ Yes, Magnum XL-200 is a pretty popular coaster, but before Millennium Force's debut, I heard Magnum XL-200 often had 1+ hour waits on most days. Then, Millennium Force showed up. Now, something like this is what I've heard happens... Me: Let's ride Millennium Force! Wait Time: 1 Hour 30 minutes Me: Umm...on second thought, let's do Maverick. Wait Time: 1 Hour 15 minutes Me: ...Top Thrill Dragster? Wait Time: 2 Hours Me: ...Gatekeeper? Wait Time: 1 Hour 30 minutes (very rough estimate on what I think Gatekeeper would be on a "normal" weekday at CP) Me: ...Raptor? Wait Time: 50 minutes Me: ...fudge! Is there a major attraction here that doesn't have a huge line...Raptor's 50 minutes is actually looking really good... Wait for Magnum XL-200: 20 minutes. Me: FINALLY! A DECENT LINE! Granted, I have never been to CP, so these are all based on what I have been told or seen on web sites as "usual wait times"...also, I'm assuming Magnum's wait times are lower also because of the ride's huge capacity, not unlike Vortex...

I'm inclined to agree here. The 308' teaser, the fact construction has started so early, and now this...if it's anything but a massive B&M Giga now, I'd be suprised...so, if this is true, what does it mean for the park? (Assuming this is something along the lines of Leviathan, it could be a very different layout...) Well...Diamondback may be screwed if the Giga is too similar. Another gentle, out-and-back style coaster but 70 feet higher would seriously hurt Diamondback's image. The whole marketing ploy for DB this far has been "tallest, fastest, meanest coaster" at Kings Island. How do you market that when a 300' giga coaster rises up on the other side of the park? (Granted, the park may already have figured this out, as on the www.visitkingsisland.com thrill rides main page, it does state how high and fast DB is, but no mention of tallest, fastest, or meanest...another clue a giga is coming? ) Given that a B&M Giga would also be pretty close in many areas to Millennium Force (height, speed, smoothness, etc) and that this one would also be in Ohio, as long as B&M doesn't screw it up, we could also be looking at a challenger for that #1 steel coaster spot in the Golden Ticket Awards, or at the very least a Top 5. Granted, these are biased and hold no real weight to coaster enthusiasts...but one more fun fact, looking at the Mitch Hawker 2012 steel poll, 47 people rode both Leviathan and Millennium Force...Leviathan was the one more liked, in a close 26-21 victory...but MF finished a few spots higher overall. (Leviathan even placing in the Steel Golden Ticket poll was also quite a feat, for it is from Canada...) And the Kings Island B&M Giga should be even better, as B&M has now got Leviathan under their belts to learn from... Of course, if this is an invert or something, this is all just a load of bull speculation. And not the El Toro kind.

Great review...even though I have yet to ride this, obviously...just a question, and I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering this- have you ever been on Wild Eagle @ Dollywood, X-Flight @ SFGam, or (unlikely) one of the foreign B&M Wing Coasters for comparison purposes? Also- a B&M that is actually FORCEFUL for the first time in a long time? Wow...makes me kind of hope whatever new ride KI is getting, if it is a B&M, is also forceful...(imagines a B&M Giga that is somewhat similar to Intimidator 305 in layout, and has good forces besides just airtime but of course it also has lots of ejector air moments, but with B&M's ultra-comfy hypercoaster trains, and with far better reliability and capacity compared to I305 as well...) Agahagahahagahagaha...drool...

Hey CoasterRiderKingsIsland, just a heads up (pointing out what you did wrong here)...one-word posts and single emoticons aren't allowed on KIC 99% of the time, save a few rare occasions. Also, don't use too many emoticons, either...3 or so is ok, but any more than that could be a bit excessive. Also, a link to the full terms of service...yeah, I know, not the most fun thing to read and you may have just skipped through it and clicked "agree" but, it does help to read it. Here's the link, if you can't find it yourself... http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4128-terms-of-service/ Just trying to be helpful, "kid"...

Hmm...pretty sure there may already be a topic like this, but I'll bite: The Beast! Especially at night. Diamondback is my #2, however. Least favorite? Well, I've enjoyed everything I have ever ridden in the park...except ONE ride, The Crypt. And it's dead now! (Granted, from POVs and stuff I've seen, it was awesome when it was Tomb Raider: The Ride). Oh, and welcome to KIC...and trust me, that search bar can come in quite handy sometimes. (I was a KIC "Tourist" too just a few years ago in 2009...you'll eventually get the hang of this site and how it "rolls"... )

^ ROFL. Donald has a terrified look on his face because he is about to enter the Rose Bowl, and knows what is about to happen next...pain. Lots and lots of pain. (DISCLAIMER: Based on what I've heard about SOB, as I never got the chance to ride it myself and find out what it's really like...)

Why are RCCA and TOGO on this, and not The Gravity Group or Rocky Mountain Coasters? The former are out of business, and the latter have made some great wooden/hybrid coasters in recent years... Nonetheless, I voted for a sit-down Intamin wooden coaster, based off how well those do on Mitch Hawker's coaster poll, and would like to see one arrive at Kings Island...alas, the footers thus far say it's a steel coaster, and I'm guessing some sort of B&M...but what kind of B&M, I dunno, they all seem to have similar footers...

Oh No...Imagination doing re-run...but this time... FLASHBACK TO "COASTERDRAFT 2000" Mr.Coasterdude in a suit is standing at a podium, behind him is a roller coaster logo... Mr. CD: Hello, I am Mr.Coasterdude , and I welcome to you to the 2000 Roller Coaster Draft! (Crowd cheers) Guy: Cedar Point is now on the clock. (Minutes later...) Cedar Point GM: And with the #1 overall section of the draft, we choose...Son of Beast! Analyst: WHAT DA!?!? I was totally expecting Millennium Force with this pick! And WTF, they already have Mean Streak! Mr. CD: Paramount's Kings Island is no... PKI GM: MILLENNIUM FORCE!!! MILLENNIUM FORCE!!! (End Flashback) ...can you imagine how different roller coaster history would be if this had happened (both rides end up doing as well as they did in real life in this scenario, as in Millennium Force is a huge win and SOB is an epic fail)...I think Cedar Point would probably have taken a massive blow, and Paramount would have not been afraid to build large, innovative rides (SOB was a huge reason they stopped doing that)...

^ Thanks, and...Well, at least Kings Island made a much better pick with the #1 overall selection in 2009, when they took Diamondback...

^ It was. From 2000-2006. Then the looping part went. But it was still the tallest and fastest. Until 2009, when it became SBNO, and SBNO coasters do not count for world records, so Colossos @ Heide Park became the tallest (196.8') and El Toro @ SFGadv took the records for largest drop (176') and maximum speed (70mph). And now Son of Beast is 100% dead...wow, comparing those numbers to SOB (218' for height, 214' for drop, and 78.4mph for speed) there sure was a huge drop-off once SOB closed...there's a 38-foot gap between SOB and El Toro's drops (you could actually stuff the hill of Woodstock Express, KI's family wooden coaster, on top of El Toro and the drop would still be 3 feet bigger!) On paper, Son of Beast had all the stats to be a superstar...but it ended up being a bust in a year filled with world-class and innovative coasters. Also from 2000... Millennium Force @ Cedar Point, first 300' giga coaster Steel Dragon 2000 @ Nagashima Spa Land, second 300' giga coaster, currently longest roller coaster in the world Stealth @ California's Great America (later relocated to Carowinds), world's first flying coaster Superman Ride of Steel @ SF New England (now Bizarro), one of the world's best steel coasters Superman Ride of Steel @ SF America, a good Intamin hypercoaster overlooked by its NE cousin Boulder Dash @ Lake Compounce, a world-class wooden roller coaster Legend @ Holiday World, the 2nd of that park's elite wooden trio Goliath @ SF Magic Mountain, SFMM's popular steel giant Kraken @ Seaworld Orlando, a huge & popular B&M Floorless coaster Katun @ Mirabilandia, one of B&M's best inverted coasters (see Mitch Hawker poll) Lightning Racer @ Hersheypark, the coaster that put GCI on the map THREE new coasters @ SF Worlds of Adeventure, aka Geauga Lake...2 of which now have new homes...the other is dead... ...and that's not even the whole class! http://rcdb.com/r.htm?nm=na&op=2000&ot=2 What a class that was...oh noez...me imagination...NOO!!! (Fades into crazy imaginationland) A guy in a suit is standing at a podium, behind him is a roller coaster logo... Guy: Hello, I am Mr.Coasterdude , and I welcome to you to the 2000 Roller Coaster Draft! (Crowd cheers) Guy: Cedar Point is now on the clock. (Aren't the early picks supposed to go to "bad" parks? ) A few minutes later... Cedar Point GM: With the 1st overall pick of the 2000 coaster draft, we select Millennium Force, from Intamin. (Crowd cheers) Cedar Point GM and Millennium Force pose for photo with CP Logo, then head off stage Mr. Coasterdude: Paramount's Kings Island is now on the clock. A few minutes later... PKI GM: With the 2nd overall pick of the 2000 coaster draft, we select Son of Beast, from RCCA. (Crowd cheers, not realizing how bad this pick will turn out) Random Analyist Dude: I don't like this pick. Son of Beast did not perform well at the coaster combine, and coasters coming out of RCCA have done nothing in this leauge noteworthy. It's not even that great a pick, PKI needed a quality steel coaster, and they already have a solid wooden coaster in the original Beast...I would have taken Superman: Ride of Steel (the SFNE one) here...I feel they took this pick just because of the stats, and Beast convincing the park to draft his son... Nonetheless, Beast, SOB, and PKI GM are seen standing next to a huge PKI logo posing for their picture together... Mr. Coasterdude: Nagashima Spa Land is now on the clock. (I think Steel Dragon 2000 would have gone #3, Stealth @ #4, Goliath @ #5...beyond that I'm not sure...note I am basing this off before riders ever got to ride any of these! So coasters like Boulder Dash and the like would have been the "hidden gems"...) (Fade to Black) Umm...was I the first one to ever imagine anything like the above? I hope not...

Hate to further muddy this up, but Kings Dominion, during the grand opening of their WindSeeker, claimed it would take riders up 27 stories above the ground...not the previously claimed 30. And since amusement parks usually mean 1 story=10 feet, WindSeeker takes riders somewhere from 270-279 (280+ would be 28 "stories") feet up...here's the video where this is stated: (It's said early, at around 24 seconds in or so) This supports the claim that the entire tower is 301'. If that's true, WindSeeker is NOT the tallest ride at Kings Island- Drop Tower is 315' and the Eiffel Tower is 314', including the entire structure. But, does it take its riders higher than any other ride in the park? That depends. If it's only 270', the Eiffel Tower has a observation deck 275' up, beating WindSeeker by 5 feet. Even if the 27-story claim is 279', it runs into the problem of Drop Tower. What problem is this? Well, Drop Tower has a claimed 264' drop. Not as high as WindSeeker, eh? Well...Drop Towers stop measuring the drop not at the ground, but the brakes, and ours is an older model that needs its brakes at least 20-30 or more feet above the ground...add that up, and my estimate is at its highest point, Drop Tower has you somewhere above 285'+ or so right before you hear "click"... This also means as far as how high riders go, nothing at Kings Island will actually take you over 300' (Drop Tower MAYBE, but if the entire structure is 315', including that pole on top, I doubt it)...yet...the rumored giga coaster would, of course, do the trick...

Umm...on Racer being the tallest in the world...I'd like you all to meet... http://rcdb.com/354.htm Opened in 1964. Height- 110 feet! (equal to Kings Island's Beast!) And it's a Mobious Coaster, which has 1 very long track that goes around twice...so if they really wanted to, they could make it longer than Beast (it would be 8,000+ feet long!)... There are even quality POVs of it, and a guy named Trackwalker did a great No Limits recreation. Also, Racer is not the only KI coaster to falsely claim a record... Beast (1979): Claimed to be world's tallest wooden coaster, was 110'. Colossos, which opened in 1978 at Six Flags Magic Mountain, is 125'. However, Beast did claim the other records (Height of Biggest Drop, Max Speed, and Track Length) and as far as I can tell these were true records, and at the time beat all other coasters, wood or steel. Good luck building a wooden coaster with a Drop bigger than Kingda Ka's (418ft), faster than Formula Rossa (149.1mph), and longer than Steel Dragon 2000 (8,133ft) these days, especially considering what happened even at 218' and 78mph... The Bat (1981): Claimed to be the world's first suspended coaster, which was also not true- a very similar ride ran for a brief time in germany, eventually succumbing to the same problems that would later kill The Bat as well. And even before that, in 1902... http://rcdb.com/2427.htm?p=6735 It's suspended and it swings, nuff said. Vortex (1987): Not sure if the park ever claimed this, but some have claimed Vortex was the tallest complete circuit roller coaster in the world when it debuted in 1987. Not true, because that ignores the 183' Dragon Mountain (Vortex is "only" 148') that opened at Marineland in 1983. http://rcdb.com/185.htm However, Vortex was probably 2nd only to DM, and its more famous record, being the first to go upside down 6 times, was indeed true...Dragon Mountain only goes upside-down 4 times. As a bonus, here is a link to Trackwalker's Montana Rusa recreation...it is also sometimes called the Mexico City Racer.... http://www.coastercrazy.com/track_exchange/detail/19214 Enjoy. Also, I am NOT Trackwalker...my NL coasters are not even half as good as his.

^^ Umm...not all record-breaking coasters fail like SOB did. Some DO turn out great, see: The Beast, Kings Island Opened in 1979 with the largest drop (141'), fastest top speed (64.8mph), and longest track (7,359') of any roller coaster in the world. Opened to rave reviews. 34 years later, the ride continues to thrill riders and is still one of the most popular rides in the world. Vortex, Kings Island Opened in 1987 as the tallest full-circut roller coaster in the United States at 148', and as the first to go upside down six times. The ride opened to rave reviews, and 26 years later, it remains a staple in Kings Island's lineup. While rumors of its removal in the near future exist, these are not due to the ride being seriously flawed or anything, but rather it simply reaching the end of its normal lifespan. Magnum XL-200, Cedar Point Opened in 1989 as the world's tallest roller coaster (205'), with the biggest drop (194.7'), and highest top speed (72mph) among all complete-circuit roller coasters. Opened to rave reviews. 24 years later, it is still a popular attraction at Cedar Point and still has a large fanbase. Alpengeist, Busch Gardens Williamsburg (because Beastrider even mentioned this one) Opened in 1997, Alpengeist debuted as the tallest full-circut inverted coaster in the world at a massive 195', as well as the fastest at 67mph until Volcano: The Blast Coaster opened at Kings Dominion in 1998 (another "successful" record-breaker that's still going strong today). Alpengeist remains a popular attraction at BGW, and is a key part of that park's excellent-looking coaster lineup. Millennium Force, Cedar Point Opened in 2000, it was the world's tallest roller coaster (310'), with the biggest drop (300'), and fastest speeds (93mph) for a few months until Steel Dragon 2000 opened in Japan. The ride is insanely popular, and has won numerous awards and is considered by many one of the best steel coasters in the world. El Toro, Six Flags Great Adventure Opened in 2006, El Toro opened with the steepest drop on any wooden roller coaster in the world (beaten in 2008 by T-Express @ Everland, South Korea). It was also among the tallest wooden coasters, and the 2nd fastest behind the ill-fated Son of Beast (a title that it has now claimed since SOB is no more). El Toro has been a smash hit for SFGadv, and in 2012, it won the Golden Ticket for Best Wood Coaster as well as winning the Mitch Hawker wood coaster poll for the 3rd year in a row, and it is now in a position to win the Hawker poll an unbelieavble 4th straight year...well, unless newcomer Outlaw Run or T-Express (or in a longshot, Voyage) can stop it... These are just 6 examples (7 if you add the blurb about Volcano). I would not call any of those rides "failures", in fact quite the opposite... There are actually quite a few coasters still going strong today that broke a record or two (or more) when they opened. Going for a record, in itself, is not dumb, so long as you know what you are doing and how to do it safely (which is probably what the above rides did do), and not forget the ride experience itself has to be good... I'm not saying whatever Kings Island is building has to be record-breaking, but I'm just pointing out...not all record breaking rides end up like Son of Beast. Heck, few rides have ever ended up having their reputations get that bad, though...

Heh, I'll bite... #1-The Beast #2-Diamondback #3-Flight of Fear #4-Vortex #5-Flight Deck #6-Racer #7-Adventure Express #8-Backlot Stunt Coaster #9-Firehawk #10-Invertigo I have also been on Woodstock Express and Great Pumpkin Coaster, but they are kiddie coasters and I haven't ridden them in quite some time, so for fairness...I'm leaving them off here.

Well, that comment I made about WindSeekers not being ready until June on another thread...forget it now. KD and CW's WindSeekers being open seems to change EVERYTHING... However, if state laws are the only thing keeping WindSeeker from going ATM, I honestly expect both KI's and CP's to open at the same time or at least around the same time, ie within a week of each other.