McSalsa

I'll add my two cents to this topic...well, ok, actually a bit more than that- first off, I noticed you did not ride Vortex or Flight Deck. When you come back, be sure to hit up both of these excellent Arrow Dyanmics roller coasters. First up, Vortex: If the line looks long (is stretching out into the midway) it is still only a 25-minute wait max, because the ride has uber-capacity and there are not a bajillion hidden q-lines. I suggest riding from 5-1, which is the front row of the 5th car. I'd avoid back row though, as for me at least (5'11 200lbs) it is uber-cramped. Also, ride a bit defensively- this ride is jerky. However, if you can take it, you will be rewarded with an intense looping coaster that is actually more than just inversions (first drop has great air, the turnaround after the drop is good for pacing, and the helix finale is intense). The ride type is basically the same as Cedar Point's Corkscrew, but Vortex is MUCH bigger. Second up, Flight Deck: This Arrow Suspended Coaster (similar to Iron Dragon in model) is way off the beaten path right now, so many guests don't bother to head down and ride it. This is such a shame, because they are missing out on a fun, fast and furious coaster ride. Any comparison to Iron Dragon only stems from the type of coaster, Flight Deck is much faster and swings a lot harder. The main drawback is the ride is over only a minute or so after the lift hill. I'd suggest front row, because the view is better, and on this type of coaster the near-misses are a huge "feature" and that's the best seat for them. In addition to the Arrows, you also missed Invertigo. I have only ridden this one once myself, it's a good ride for what it is, but it usually gets huge wait times due to the fact it is a shuttle coaster and is so close to the park entrance. It's worth doing, though, if it is a 30-minute or less wait as the ride is very intense and has a unique seating style where you can see the fear in your friends/family/strangers faces. I've heard it can be rough, but my ride on it in 2010 was actually not too bad. Ignore this. I was dum. Next, this one was pointed out already, but I shall rub it in: The Beast @ Night. Do it. Wait 2+ hours if you have to. It is worth it. Everything that made The Beast a great ride during the day is amplified, making something epic after dark. Also, for The Racer- try not to sit on a wheel (middle seats in each train) and go for the RED Racer, as I have found that side of the coaster to be very smooth while the Blue side, not so much...though I honestly have never had a problem with this ride's roughness in any shape or form. As for Adventure Express' ending...I have never had an issue with it. I honestly see it as a joke pulled by the park and Arrow Dynamics, and it usually gives me a chuckle at the end of the ride. It needs a "Wa-Wa-Wa" sound effect, though! Finally, great Trip Report. Glad you enjoyed your first- and hopefully not last- visit to Kings Island!

Wow...40,000,000 riders...that's averaging over 1.5 million riders per year since this coaster opened. And it gave 1.1 million rides last year alone to boot...I really wish the ride could give 40,000,000 more, but to be realistic, at 1.1 million riders per year (and this assumes the ride stays that popular, which will be unlikely as it further ages) it will take 36 years to hit 80,000,000 total rides (Vortex would give ride #80,000,000 in 2049!). Kings Island will have to do some SERIOUS work to stretch the ride's lifespan that long...especially considering that several rides of this type, that were newer than Vortex, have already closed down. Still, I have some hope that Vortex could go perhaps another decade or so, because Busch Gardens Williamsburg still has Loch Ness Monster, one example of a large Arrow Looping Coaster (not too much smaller in size than Vortex) which opened in 1978 (9 years before Vortex) and is still going strong...so, I will realistically hope Vortex can give at least 50,000,000+ rides before its retirement.

Oh, in that case yes, Firehawk is pretty small...but I'd call the term "compact". Firehawk has more track than Flight Deck does (according to RCDB, it's 3340 vs. 2352) but Flight Deck takes up a ton more space due to layout. Heck, Racer is 3,415- only 75 feet longer than Firehawk- and it takes up TONS of room because of its out-and-back layout...

I don't really consider Firehawk a "small" addition or coaster...it is taller than Beast is, after all. I wouldn't call it a monstrous-huge-mega-addition like Diamondback was, though, either...especially since it was a re-location. I'd call it medium sized...aka not a minor addition, but not something that is going to set the amusement park on fire, either. Heh, fire...Firehawk...I made a funny!

^^ Umm...King Cobra's track was scrapped after the 2006 season, so it is no longer for sale, and has not been for sale for 8 years now. The footers (what's left of them) are all that remain at Kings Island, as I heard the trains were sent to Kings Dominion for parts and such on their "sister" coaster to King Cobra, Shockwave. If that was a joke, I apologize. As for Kentucky Kingdom's supposed re-opening: I hope it works, but I'd have my hesitations, and questions. How much of the park will be open come May 2014? Will Thunder Run, the park's signature ride now that Chang is gone, be open and running? What exactly is this new coaster Ed Hart plans to have open with the park? (My guess: it's not going to be huge, so I'd say a Wild Mouse or something, which isn't much of a reason to drive an hour or longer to a park...) I said it before, and I'll say it again: As a potential consumer (Louisville is only 1 hour and half or so away from Central Indiana), what will Kentucky Kingdom offer? A fun wooden coaster, possibly a Wild Mouse or something, a medium-sized waterpark, and a OK-sized selection of flat rides is what I can see at most being offered come 2014. Now, if you compare that with its 2 competitors flanking it...it does not look good. Holiday World, to the west, offers THREE great wooden coasters to KK's one (assuming Twisted Twins does not re-open until 2016 and the new wooden coaster is still coming in the future), a MONSTER waterpark with two water coasters, the world's tallest water ride, and a decent-enough selection of flat rides and 2 small kids areas. And they make be $5 more expensive at the gate than the promised KK price, but they have free parking and free soda ($1 cheaper than KK)...which negates the difference, pretty much. To the east, lies a MONSTER (well, at least compared to most other parks in the region, save Cedar Point of course!)...Kings Island, home of 13 roller coasters (going on 14 next year perhaps ), 3 massive flat rides for thrill seekers (Delirum, Drop Tower, & WindSeeker of course), around a dozen give-or-take family flat rides outside the kids area, a huge kids area that keeps winning world's best in the golden tickets, and a large waterpark. And while the parking may be more expensive, and the food & soda much more expensive, the park also offers big discounts- you can get Kings Island tickets for $31 at Kroger in central Indiana, and during Haunt, Season Passes are sold for around $80. For a park of this size, that's a steal. This is the biggest hurdle Kentucky Kingdom faces- they have to repair and re-open a park that hasn't added any major additions since the 1990's, some of the major rides that are still standing will be nowhere near ready or must be demolished, build new rides, and somehow make it affordable without making the park lose money- and do so against a beloved family park and a regional giant. And said regional giant will be advertising a huge new 2014 addition right in Kentucky Kingdom's face come May. Even if this somehow does work (perhaps they can live for a little while off just the local market or something?), it's not going to be instant- I don't see Kentucky Kingdom getting one million visitors through its gates again for quite some time, if it ever even happens again... And to sum it up- I do NOT want Kentucky Kingdom to fail. A successful Kentucky Kingdom, if Ed Hart can actually pull this off, would mean not only yet another nearby amusement park to choose from (currently, there are 3 of these to me- KI, HW, and Indiana Beach- KK would make 4...) it would also force Kings Island and Holiday World to up their game and add major new attractions more often. But, just looking at all this, it doesn't look good for this park...

Wow, glad to see there at least 2 other people who perfer Legend over Raven & Voyage...I am not crazy. Or at least I am not the ONLY crazy one...oh, and by the way, Legend actually has every bit as much airtime as Raven does, as both give you negative g's about 4 times or so. The main difference is, Legend has an extra 1,000+ feet of track dedicated to laterals (mainly added via the helix), and thus SEEMS at first to have less. Raven also has far weaker lateral g-forces, which is saying something about Legend because Raven has pretty strong laterals! Since I like laterals quite a bit- I love my coasters forceful- Legend to me has a great mix of airtime, head-choppers, tunnels, laterals, and my favorite first drop of all the coasters I have been on (sorry Beast, but Legend also has a tunnel at the bottom, the drop twists when going down, and epic ejector airtime from the back seat). It also seemed to be running smoother than Raven or Voyage on my last visit. Now, for Timberliners- Raven does not need them, it is small enough that re-tracking alone should be more than good enough to keep it in great shape. If Legend or Voyage do get them, I'd go ahead and keep at least some of their current PTC trains as they can be parts donors/backup trains for Raven. For Legend, as long as they don't take any of the forcefulness or edge off of this coaster, as it's laterals are strong enough that the PTC trains it currently runs can be painful to ride in- Timberliners would allow you to enjoy the laterals without being pressed against a hard metal plate with bolts in it. However, if they are going to take the "edge" off...I'll just take the pain, it's not THAT bad anyhow. Voyage needs them BAD- re-tracking appears to be good enough for the first out-and-back run, but the "spaghetti bowl" return run is already quite rough again- this section is where the Timberliners will help the most. This section is where Voyage lost it's status as my #2 coaster, which Legend took, leapfrogging Voyage & Diamondback to do so...it could reclaim it, however, if the Timberliners do what they are supposed to. Oh, and the best airtime in all of Holiday World? Not on a wooden coaster...ride this all by yourself. As long as you aren't super-heavy (300lbs+) you will go airborne, and it is awesome. Actually, it's better airtime than any of the "coasters" I've been on at Kings Island or Holiday World. Do Voyage or Diamondback ever actually jump the track?

Wild Eagle @ Dollywood would be another case I can think of, for 200'+ roller coasters with inversions. But it only drops 135 feet...and rcdb.com seems to have deleted the height information for some reason. Do I consider a coaster a hypercoaster if it is above 200' (in either height or drop) and has inversions? Yes- sort of. I place them in a special category, the "Hyper-Looping" coasters. And then I have even more sub-categories: Traditional (Steel Phantom, Roller Coaster @ NYNY Casino), Wooden (SOB), Winged (Wild Eagle)... And if a 300'+ coaster ever has inversions, I'll just consider it a Giga-Looping coaster.

^ Looking at it that way, that suddenly does seem like a serious possibility. And now with Kinzel no longer the CEO...perhaps the name came back up...just a thought there. (Granted, the GM of Carowinds is still a Kinzel, but would he have any input on rides going in at Kings Island?)

^ Actually, you were the one who asked for pictures of footers...which kind of got me started... (Not mad or anything, just pointing it out)

I honestly would have no problem with it- it's a cool name, and Holiday World even used it on one of their flat rides for over a decade, and they are known for being very conservative and the family is known to be deeply religious. Plus, we have other rides around the country named "Demon" (Kings Island even had one with that name in the past)...and no one complains/ed about any of those. I don't know why Cedar Point had such an issue with the name Banshee come up when they originally built Mantis, when Holiday World got away with it and other equally/worse "evil" names for coasters exist...perhaps the Sandusky area is super conservative or something (not that I would know...)?

I actually have quite a few Kings Island 2011 maps. Like, 3 or 4. From ONE visit. I was a bit paranoid after my one 2010 map was damaged...(I still have it, but it isn't in amazing shape...)

Best Image I could find on RCDB: For all we know, Kings Island could well be getting one these, since we have no hard evidence for what Project 2014 even is. I would not be against it- Premier Rides may not as well-known as B&M or Intamin, but they can make a good steel coaster- (ride our very own Flight of Fear, it's awesome) and are known for their launched coasters. A multi-launched terrain hugging coaster from Premier Rides, possibly with a huge loop (heh, how about a 200'+ loop? ) would be an awesome addition to Kings Island's lineup, while at the same time possibly elevating Premier Rides from "also-ran" into serious contenders to B&M and Intamin, and would be a "Anything you can do- we can do bigger!" from Cedar Fair to Six Flags at the same time...kind of like what Gatekeeper did to X-Flight. Granted this is all pure speculation on my part...I am just fantasizing this ride at the moment...also worth noting- Big Sexy, if there is any truth to his claim (he is probably a troll after all) did say he saw Intamin track on I-71...if there is ANY truth to this, he could have seen Premier Rides track instead...or even Zierer track, see case B, Verbolten: Granted, the second track does show up at the park, this would all be bunk if it is B&M, since their coasters have a semi-exclusive track style (only Giovanola is similar to their's) while Intamin's, as has been clearly shown, hath been copied... UPDATE: Found a MUCH better pic of some footers...also, Full Throttle apparently has two track types mixed together (Intamin's Box Track and Premier's "classic" style), how weird is that?

True...POV's, at least for now, don't give you any idea of how forceful a ride is...which is a huge part of the ride itself...Full Throttle could be very forceful which would actually make the ride awesome... Once again, I must go back and edit my post. Sorry 'bout that...old habits... Also...Premier Rides has Intamin-style track now!?!?

Didn't see a good topic to post this in, so hey, I'll post it here. Title says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDvDhZImcNU Video is from Coasterforce, but this is an official POV from the park themselves.

Wow, I cannot believe I forgot LoCoSuMo...so the elevator lift isn't even new either...wow, there goes the one interesting-looking feature of this ride.

Looking at that video again, this ride does look like it could be somewhat rough...some of those transitions look like stuff you'd expect from a 1970's Arrow Dyanmics coaster or something, not a modern steel coaster. In fact, I just realized I have been on one of their coasters- Howler at Holiday World. Which is a kiddie coaster. It was every bit as rough and jerky as Raven & Legend...and those are full-sized wooden coasters! My gosh, if that's the case, multiplying the roughness based on size...egad! We are looking at the next Son of Beast! (Well ok, perhaps it won't be that bad...but still...) Great, now I really hope the new KI coaster is not a Zamperla creation! And the name...ugh. I've thought about it and...They could not find a better name for this ride, seriously? This has very little to do with the original Thunderbolt whatsoever, save the location. Thunderbolt was a WOODEN coaster. While the elevator lift on this looks interesting, for ten million dollars, Great Coasters International can build you a pretty good wooden coaster. It won't be huge or anything, but still...and Zamperla, while you do make rides & run Coney Island, that does not mean all the rides at Coney Island need to come from you. Mack Rides runs Europa Park, yet they have a B&M Hypercoaster and a fairly new wooden coaster from GCI in their lineup. One good thing I see from this ride is the elevator lift- an interesting concept. However, I don't see this coaster being a serious threat for 2014's best new coaster award( Hope Kings Island wins that one, BTW. )...it looks too rough and low capacity, and the rest of the ride is just stuff we have already seen before. I just shared this because, well, it IS a new coaster being built for 2014 after all...

Well, it looks like Coney Island New York is getting a brand-new $10 million dollar roller coaster- and it's going to be called...Thunderbolt!?!? With that name, I first thought this would be a brand-new wooden coaster, but... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmk4_HQUusA (Video is from coasterforce) It's not. This is a Zamperla looping roller coaster with a 125-foot elevator lift hill and some cool-looking inversions, built on the grassy field where the old wooden Thunderbolt once stood. It looks like an interesting ride, though the animation for its is really cheesy. Any thoughts or comments?

Happy 20th, Flight Deck! I hope you live to see your 25th like Big Bad Wolf did, and hopefully even beyond that! A really fun ride. Sure, it's short, but what a thrill...

At first it does, but if you look closely at the Diamondback picture, there are people riding it and there is a very short line. And combined with how the weather appears from these pictures...man, could there have been a better day to visit Kings Island? Great photos, BTW!

Wow, I just noticed that...yet for whatever reason Katun ranks way above Raptor in the Mitch Hawker Poll. Weird.

If I remember correctly Raptor is the only B&M invert in the chain with a MCBR. Talon, Afterburn, Silver Bullet, Flight Deck, and Patriot all lack them I believe. I just checked RCDB and you are correct on all of those...hmm, now I must wonder: MCBR or no MCBR? I'd argue Kings Island could use a coaster with 3 trains because it can get fairly crowded, but Knott's Berry Farm is supposedly Cedar Fair's most popular park, and the B&M Invert there has no MCBR and runs 2 trains...

^ Wow, that actually looks pretty intense. And do I see some new elements not found on older B&M Inverts there? And was that seriously a B&M Invert WITHOUT a MCBR? Hmm...must be a smaller park or something that only needs 2 trains. I'm pretty sure if Kings Island does get a B&M invert, it'll have a MCBR so it can run 3 trains... And another new page is born.

With all this talk about B&M Inverts, I was looking at some of the existing ones on rcdb.com, and this picture here happened to catch my eye...say hello to Katun, found at Mirabilandia (in Italy): I bring this up because, well, it does look like Katun or something similar would fit nearly PERFECTLY in the area where they are currently working, and where Son of Beast stood just one year ago. Oh, and for the record, this ride was in a 3-way tie for 9th in the 2012 Mitch Hawker Coaster Poll with Maverick and an Intamin Mega-Lite, and was rated as the best B&M Invert in that poll... And here is a POV, with about 1 minute of on-ride footage...this was filmed by TPR, and in spite of that's site's "reputation", at least we do know they get permission before filming rides: I'd be quite happy if Kings Island got something like this, to be honest...

I also have to wonder: do some people not have the ability to discern laterals from roughness? Because I was reading some comments on facebook that say: "Oh my gawsh, The Legend at Holiday World is so rough!" and I just rode that thing from the VERY back seat and had zero issues with roughness on that ride (and honestly, I never have on any of my 5+ rides on it), but it did have serious lateral forces. Just a random thought... Oh, and to clarify... Roughness- Bumps and jolts, the rider/train will bounce around the track. Usually caused by poorly done track work/poor ride upkeep, or in some cases bad design. Laterals- A g-force effect that pushes riders to the side of the train, usually around a underbanked or un-banked turn. Almost always designed into the ride if found on one.

^^ Also, King Cobra? McSalsa, who just made a funny...and got beat to it by Terpy...