McSalsa

^ That idea was mine...and I'm now aware that while that is possible, there might be a good reason to not do it, as Terpy pointed out- the bad stigma from SOB. Even if that part of the ride worked just fine...heck, if they were to re-use the station from Son of Beast, some crazy people might see that as "OH NO THIS RIDE HAS A PIECE OF Son of Beast AND I GOT A BRUISE ON IT AHH IT DANGEROUS ME SUE!!!" ...obviously, smart people would laugh at that...and the lawsuit would fail...but still, the threat remains...

FAMILY RIDES (15 rides & attractions) Backlot Stunt Coaster Zephyr Monster Adventure Express Scrambler Shake, Rattle, & Roll Congo Falls Viking Fury Eiffel Tower Dodgem Boo Blasters on Boo Hill White Water Canyon K.I. & MV Railroad Grand Carousel Thunder Alley ($) My Score: 13/15 Curses I am missing Dodgem and Thunder Alley and I got this whole thing... THRILL RIDES (15 rides & attractions) Diamondback The Beast Delirium Drop Tower Firehawk Flight of Fear Invertigo The Racer: Red The Racer: Blue Vortex WindSeeker Flight Deck Sling Shot ($) Xtreme Skyflyer ($) Son of Beast (SBNO) My Score: 12/15 MWAHAHAHAHAHA I hath all the non-upcharge and non-SBNO thrill rides! Planet Snoopy (18 rides & attractions) Surf Dog Race for Your Life, Charlie Brown Flying Ace Aerial Chase Peanuts 500 Kite Eating Tree Joe Cool's Dodgem School The Great Pumpkin Coaster Peanuts Off-Road Rally Snoopy's Splash Dance Charlie Brown's Wind Up Woodstock Express Woodstock Whirlybirds Sally's Sea Plane Linus' Beetle Bugs Snoopy's Junction Linus' Launcher Snoopy vs. Red Baron Character Carousel My Score: 5/18 D'oh...I got a few of these as a little kid...but not many. Soak City WATERPARK (16 slides & attractions) Aruba Tuba Breakers Bay Tidal Wave Bay Castaway Cove Splash Landing Coconut Cove Lookout Lagoon Pipeline Paradise Mondo Monsoon Zoom Flume Paradise Plunge Thunder Falls Rendezvous Run Tropical Twister Pineapple Pipeline Splash River My Score: 0/16 I've never been to the waterpark...honest. Dinosaurs Alive! (2 attractions) Dinosaurs Alive! ($) Dinosaurs Alive! 3D My Score: 0/2 Haven't done either...won't count DA! 3D because I think the motion seats being removed is a big change... Total Score: 30/66 rides, slides, & attractions WHAT!?!? I am not even halfway there...D'oh!!! BONUS!!!: DEFUNCT RIDES Antique Cars The Crypt Action FX Theatre My Score: 3 Total Score with Bonus: 33 Why do I get the sinking feeling someone will surpass my score very quickly... Okay, there's mine, use that to guide you if you were unsure how this works...I marked off all the rides I've been on in BOLD.

Well, here's a simple topic that popped in my head: Kings Island has a LOT of rides & attractions...and I'm wondering...has anyone here actually ridden ALL of them in all their trips to KI? And thus, this poll was born... Basically, how many of Kings Island's rides have you ridden? I'll even help you a bit by making you a list...simply look at it, and "mark off" (make bold, cross off, etc etc.) any rides you have been on...have you done them all? RULES You may count a ride if you have EVER ridden it- it didn't have to be this season. So, if you rode SOB in 2008, you can count it, etc etc... You may count a ride if you rode it with a previous name, paintjob, or theme (ie, if you rode Woodstock Express when it was Beastie, you may still count it- it's still basically the same ride with a new name & paintjob). However, rides that have undergone DRASTIC changes cannot be counted- aka, you cannot count Boo Blasters just because you rode Phantom Theatre. The ride MUST have been located at Kings Island when you rode it- so no claiming the Flying Dutchman because you rode it at Kentucky Kingdom, or Screamin' Demon because you rode it when it was re-located to Camden Park...etc etc... Comments on other lists are OK, so long as they are in-line, such as asking "Wait, you haven't ridden Ride X yet...why?" That's about all I can think of for rules... THE BLANK LIST Copy and edit this to make your "KI Checklist"... (SBNO): Standing but not operating...the only ride/attraction that gets this ATM is Son of Beast. ($): Upcharge attraction. FAMILY RIDES (15 rides & attractions) Backlot Stunt Coaster Zephyr Monster Adventure Express Scrambler Shake, Rattle, & Roll Congo Falls Viking Fury Eiffel Tower Dodgem Boo Blasters on Boo Hill White Water Canyon K.I. & MV Railroad Grand Carousel Thunder Alley ($) My Score: 0/15 THRILL RIDES (15 rides & attractions) Diamondback The Beast Delirium Drop Tower Firehawk Flight of Fear Invertigo The Racer: Red The Racer: Blue Vortex WindSeeker Flight Deck Sling Shot ($) Xtreme Skyflyer ($) Son of Beast (SBNO) My Score: 0/15 Planet Snoopy (18 rides & attractions) Surf Dog Race for Your Life, Charlie Brown Flying Ace Aerial Chase Peanuts 500 Kite Eating Tree Joe Cool's Dodgem School The Great Pumpkin Coaster Peanuts Off-Road Rally Snoopy's Splash Dance Charlie Brown's Wind Up Woodstock Express Woodstock Whirlybirds Sally's Sea Plane Linus' Beetle Bugs Snoopy's Junction Linus' Launcher Snoopy vs. Red Baron Character Carousel My Score: 0/18 Soak City WATERPARK (16 slides & attractions) Note: Link to KI Soak City page for pictures to help determine what is what as this may confuse some- I am aware most people don't remember waterslide names: http://www.visitking...-city-waterpark Aruba Tuba Breakers Bay Tidal Wave Bay Castaway Cove Splash Landing Coconut Cove Lookout Lagoon Pipeline Paradise Mondo Monsoon Zoom Flume Paradise Plunge Thunder Falls Rendezvous Run Tropical Twister Pineapple Pipeline Splash River My Score: 0/16 Dinosaurs Alive! (2 attractions) Dinosaurs Alive! ($) Dinosaurs Alive! 3D My Score: 0/2 Total Score: 0/66 rides, slides, & attractions BONUS!!!: UPDATE: I've decided to add a list of ALL of the rides & attractions at Kings Island that would be considered "defunct". Hopefully, this will clear the air on some issues. Years of operation are included. From Wikipedia. The Bat (1981-1984) Bavarian Beetle (1972-1979) King Cobra (1984-2001) Screamin' Demon (1977-1987) Scooby's Ghoster Coaster (1998-2005) Baba Looey's Buggies (1982-2005) Bayern Curve (1973-1982) Boo-Boo's Baggage Claim (1972-2005) Boo-Boo's Buggies (1972-1985) The Crypt (2002-2011) Cuddle Up (1972-1976) Der Spinning Keggers (1972-1989) Elephant Rides (1981?-1983?) Enchanted Voyage (Regular & Smurfs) (1972-1991) Flight Commander (1990-1995) Flying Ducthman (1973-1991) Flying Eagles (1972-2004) Gulliver's Rub a Dub (1972-1981) Huck's Hotrods (????-2005) Halley's Comet (1972-1979) Jetson's Jet Orbiters (1972-2005) Kenton's Cove Keelboat Canal (1973-2000) Kikky Kangaroo (1972-????) Launch Pad (2003, 2005-2009?) Les Taxis (aka Antique Cars) (1972-2004) Lion County Safari Monorail (1974-1993) Flying Carpet/McScrappy's Slide (1972-1994) Motor Mouse (1972-????) Ohio Overland Auto Livery (Rivertown Antique Cars) (1972-1997) Oktoberfest Ferris Wheel (1982-1991) Phantom Theatre (1992-2002) The Rotor (1972-1982) Scooby Doo & The Haunted Castle (2003-2009) Skylab (1986-1997) Skyride (1972-1979) Sunshine Turnpike (1972-1994) Tumble Bug (1972-1985) Wheel of Fortune (1972-1987?) Winnie Witch's Cauldrons (1972-1991) Zodiac (1975-1986) Wikipedia Page with short descriptions to help: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Kings_Island_attractions My Score: 0/40 Total Score with Bonus: 0/106 So...how many do you have? How many bonus defunct rides? Enjoy. If you dislike, click back. If you dislike and refuse to click back, I will hath to unleash 100 Ninjas...as in you will have to ride Ninja @ Six Flags Over Georgia 100 times in a row non-stop with no brakes whatsoever. You will not enjoy that, trust me...according to Terpy, it is a painful coaster. My list will be in my next post...and will probably set the example...

OK, here's a bit more cool SOB stuff: POV Video of the ride testing in 2000: Son of Beast takes a test run...and you can ride along! Also, do NOT FILM WHILE RIDING WITHOUT PARK PERMISSION! I chose this video instead of the Discovery Channel one because...this one's much clearer. Travel Channel's Ultimate Rides: Drop Zone & Son of Beast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DMIvVOHLqk A video from the travel channel from a long time ago featuring Drop Zone and Son of Beast, and even a little of the original Beast. LOL that they get the opening date for Drop Zone wrong- it debuted in 1999, not 2001! Coasterimage.com Music Video- Beast & Son of Beast A cool music video with The Beast and Son of Beast. Was filmed shortly before SOB's famous accident and features some of the last footage of the ride with the loop still intact. Bonus footage of Avatar: The Last Airbender (now Surf Dog) at the end. NoLimits- Spez's Son of Beast Recreation Download Link: http://nolimits-exchange.com/coaster/son-of-beast/696 (you will probably need to sign up- it's free, though) An excellent (there are some minor flaws, but they are minor...) recreation of Son of Beast for No Limits- includes the loop. You'll want a fast PC with a good graphics card for it, though! Well, that's pretty much it...enjoy all this SOB related stuff... PS: Most of this was probably in the old SOB thread, but I figured I'd just post it all here so that it would be easier for others to find...

All right, here's the first of some of that stuff I said I'd put...first up: Son of Beast in 2000, the year the ride made its debut as the tallest, fastest, and only looping wooden coaster on the planet. 9 years later, in June 2009- not long before the ride was closed and became SBNO, which remains its current status. The loop, however, was already gone. I have still more, but there is a media limit so I'll not clog this post with media. These videos are both the property of Coasterbob62, not me.

Hmm...well, since everyone here is sharing their SOB memories... I actually, as a 10-year-old kid, visited the park in August 2000- Son of Beast's opening year. While I never rode the ride, I do have a lot of memories of watching this massive wooden coaster that made the Hoosier Hurricane I had ridden at Indiana Beach look like a midget. (SOB is 218', Hoosier Hurricane is a mere 78', according to RCDB.com)! And it had a loop. As a kid, I thought it was crazy...my cousin did ride it, and he said he loved it, and that on a scale of 1-10 on how scary it was...it was clearly a 10. In comparison, after riding SOB, he said Original Beast was a mere 6 now (he previously called it a "9")...I did go on The Racer (forwards) that day and it scared me quite a bit, and I never rode coasters again until 2009... In 2008, at school on the computer one day, I decided to look up Kings Island as my sister was going and one of the items said "Son of Beast loses loop!". I freaked out. "NO LOOP ON Son of Beast!?!?" I thought. I then learned there was an accident on the ride, which I assumed incorrectly was someone falling out of the loop. On the plus side, I did also think: "Well, now that the loop is gone, at least it is probably less scary now"...I also learned of "a big construction site behind the Eiffel Tower" from my sister upon her return: which turned out to be...oh, do I even need to say it? Someone will guess... In May of 2009, I finally returned to Kings Island- no longer a little kid, but now a 19-year-old teenager. I brought myself to try the original Beast, as I had noticed from POVs that it had long sections of straight track and henceforce, I thought I could handle it. I did, and fell in love with coasters. I rode Vortex afterwards, and then mustered up enough guts to try the then-brand-new Diamondback. Upon riding both a wooden coaster (Beast) and a 200'+ coaster (Diamondback), I decided to try Son of Beast- I figured it would just be putting the two together. I would never get to test my theory. When we headed to SOB, a ride op approached us and told us they were closed for the rest of the day- even though they were doing test runs and the trains appeared to be going around just fine. So instead, we hit up Flight Deck, rode The Racer for a wood coaster fix, Flight of Fear, and eventually an epic night ride on the original Beast. We left the park with Son of Beast still "unridden". No problem, I figured. I would get that credit next time I visited KI... I did not return until May of 2010. By that time, Son of Beast was SBNO. It's still there, of course...sitting, rotting away, and every time I walk back to ride Flight Deck (a ride I enjoy quite a bit) I can't help but look at it. I've had friends who have ridden SOB- my sister and her friend, both short, lightweight females, adored the ride and said claims of it being killer rough are indeed exaggerated. But my best friend, who is 6'0 and about 260-270lbs (a pretty decent sized dude) rode from the very back and was trying to save his phone, and got THRASHED...he still, somehow, enjoyed the ride. In 2011, I had a very, very rough ride on The Voyage (BANG! BANG! BOOM! BOOM! Throws me around like a rag doll...) at Holiday World...my friend, who had that ride on SOB, said that was what SOB was like...only even about 10-20% worse. Of course, I still have yet to ride Son of Beast in real life. All I have to go on are POVs, RCT3 recreations, No Limits recreations, and...dreams. I have actually ridden SOB many, many times in my dreams...including one that was 100% realistic, except for the fact you got a coupon for free cheeseburgers for riding for some odd reason... Sorry for the long post...but I felt like sharing my thoughts...I've got some more unrelated stuff (it is SOB related though), but I'll save that for another post...

I hath bad news: according to IB Website, the Water Swings are still in their relocated area, and as such, are technically no longer "water" swings...they are just a plain ol' swing ride in their new location. Still, have fun though...and enjoy the wooden coasters. PS: LoCoSuMo, according to a friend of mine, has the longest lines...

For anyone interested: here's how Intamin pre-fab wooden coasters did in the 2011 Mitch Hawker Wood Coaster Poll...and Son of Beast is also included near the bottom of this post, for comparison purposes. El Toro @ SFGadv: 1st Place!!! (Win Ratio: 100%) T-Express @ Everland (Korea): 2nd Place!!! (Win Ratio: 98.77%) Balder @ Liseberg: 8th Place (Win Ratio: 95.4%) Colossos @ Heide Park: 10th Place (Win Ratio: 93.87%) All 4 of their pre-fab wooden coasters are in the world's Top 10, including #1 and #2, and won in at least 93% of their "comparison battles". Why are there not more of these...oh, a few more interesting rankings, including everything at KI, Holiday World, and Cedar Point that is wooden: Boulder Dash @ Lake Compounce (Best CCI): 3rd, 98.77% The Voyage @ Holiday World (Best Gravity Group): 4th, 97.85% Prowler @ Worlds of Fun (Best GCII): 11th, 93.56% Raven @ Holiday World: 17th, 87.12% Legend @ Holiday World: 39th, 76.99% The Beast @ Kings Island: 48th, 70.86%...it was beaten by a Wild Mouse, too...I call bull on that...don't blame me, I had it at #1 on my ballot... Coney Island Cyclone @ Astroland (Is it still considered in Astroland anymore?): 49th, 69.33% Blue Streak @ Cedar Point: 67th, 58.9% Racer @ Kings Island: 99th, 40.80% Woodstock Express @ Kings Island: 147th, 11.66% Mean Streak @ Cedar Point: 156th, 5.52% Anaconda @ Walygator Park (Worst Wooden): 164th, 1.23% (LOL that is horrible!) And...at last... Son of Beast (SBNO) @ Kings Island: Unranked due to SBNO, but win % is...2%!!! (barely better than Anaconda...and even worse than Mean Streak and Woodstock Express) Just some interesting info...that has been avaliable for a while now, but I felt like sharing for those who hadn't seen this. Full List: http://www.ushsho.com/detailedwoodrollercoasterpollresults2011.htm

^ I know, it was just an idea...didn't know that the Cyclone/Comet thing was just a rumor, though. Thanks...I'll edit that post... Also, I was thinking along the lines of how much SOB removal+new ride in its place would cost compared to SOB Overhaul. Remember, some here have stated that removing SOB could cost up to $8,000,000. Yikes. Add the $25,000,000 for a new B&M Giga, Wing Rider, etc etc (based on the prices of CW's Leviathan and CP's rumored 2013 wing rider) to replace it...and you have $33,000,000. Yikes! That is $11,000,000 more than Diamondback! Granted, KI could always build something cheaper...how much does Intamin charge for large Plug N' Play woodies? I can't seem to find it on the internet...El Toro, how much did SFGadv pay for you...if it's not too much, then perhaps KI should just demo SOB and build another big wooden coaster there...

OK, some more thoughts expanding on my previous comment a few post ago...what would I personally do with what I said would stay of SOB? Hmm...well...let's assume Intamin agrees to "build the new coaster on what's left of Son of Beast..." I would want a massive, out-and-back section similar to SFGadv's El Toro to replace to "Rose Bowl" section of the ride- in fact, very similar to El Toro in this section. The ride would go out, turn around, and come back- just like this: Afterwards, the ride would connect quite nicely with the current 2nd helix- which would be rebuilt to provide actual lateral g-forces like helixes are SUPPOSED to do. A tunnel here would also be quite welcome, and a nod to "Original" Beast. The section after the 2nd helix would also get minor modifications, to provide some more airtime and possibly include a few overbanked turns along this section before the ride returns to the station- in the same manner the current SOB does, in fact. If this refurb makes the new woodie longer than The Beast- so be it. I'd rather see KI break its own record than see some park in China do it, and Holiday World broke their own water coaster world record (Mammoth's length>Wildebeest's), so why can't KI break theirs? Plus, this would put an airtime-packed, smooth, Intamin Plug N' Play wooden coaster in the midwest so people would not have to drive all the way to SFGadv to ride one- a ride that would nicely fit in with the rest of KI's lineup. If Intamin does refuse, but Rocky Mountain agrees, this layout is still possible but I'd have to wonder if they would keep it a wooden coaster... Just an idea.

Just a thought: would it be crazy to keep SOB's station, lift hill, first drop and pre-drop(before lift), tear the rest of the ride down, and build a brand-new ride using the existing lift hill? It would save money on both demolition (not having to tear down as much structure, less risk of damaging other rides as the lift is what is dangerously close to Adventure Express and Flight Deck) and on new ride construction (no need to build a new lift hill for it, just re-tracking)- plus, the lift and that dip before the drop are what most people see of SOB as they walk around the park (the rose bowl really only shows itself from a few spots, such as the Eiffel Tower)...so, for the most part, the park's skyline would remain intact...and the new wooden (or steel hybrid on wood supports) automatically becomes a massive, marketable attraction (if a wooden coaster, it inherits SOB's world records automatically)...and, from what I've heard, everything up to SOB's drop no one had any problems with...it was what came after the first drop people had issues with. And, before thinking "that will never happen! It would be impossible to build a new coaster but use some stuff from an old one to do it!"... The Infamous Crystal Beach Cyclone was demolished, but some of its structure was re-used...and became The Crystal Beach Comet...then it was re-located to The Great Escape, and it continues to be considered one of the world's best wooden coasters. Oh, and The Crystal Beach Cyclone was known for breaking ribs and injuring riders, too (The SOB of the 1920s?). UPDATE: Ignore this- it's a debunked rumor. Thanks Terpy! The Pippin, at Kennywood, was demolished...but some of it survives, as part of the Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt is considered one of Kennywood's star attractions. Even closer to home...the Coney Island Shooting Star, from Coney Island Ohio, was built from the remains of an older roller coaster- I'm not 100% sure which one, though...and that coaster has become a legend, even though it too is now gone. These are just a few wooden coasters that were born from the ashes of, and used parts from, other wooden coasters. This was just one of many, many ideas I've had about what could be done with SOB...obviously, there have been others: tear down and build brand-new ride, iron horse refurb (would cost $20M+ though!), Timberliners (probably wouldn't work...), etc etc...but, for some reason, I keep coming back to this one...why not keep the parts of SOB that actually worked, and build anew from that?

My sister, who is short, rode Son of Beast and loved it. My best friend, who is 6'0 and weighed about 275lbs (he's not super fat, but he is a big dude) at the time, hated it...hmm, perhaps there is a coincidence...uh-oh, I can see it now...(Warning: Joke ahead...) Son of Beast re-opens after a quick fix-up! Me: Yay! (I run up to it) Ride Op: Sorry sir, you are too tall and too heavy to ride. Me: Huh? But I'm 5'11 and only 205lbs... Ride Op: TOO HEAVY! You must be less than 5'8 and under 175lbs! Me: WHAT!?!? And you thought Diamondback was restrictive...

And now...for the hyper/giga coaster questions I've been seeing...I'll clear the air on that one: Hypercoaster: A full-circuit coaster that travels above 200' OR has a drop that is over 200' (Apollo's Chariot & Phantom's Revenge are not over 200' tall, but apparently qualify as hypercoasters due to their huge drops). A wooden hypercoaster does exist, but is currently SBNO. I don't think I need say which one that is. Original: Magnum XL-200, Cedar Point, 1989, Arrow Dynamics Gigacoaster: A full-circuit coaster that travels above 300', no coasters that are under 300' but have 300' drops exist...yet. Original: Millennium Force, Cedar Point, 2000, Intamin Stratacoaster: A full-circuit coaster that travels above 400', again no coasters under this height have a drop that big either. No non-launched stratacoasters exist at this time. Original: Top Thrill Dragster, Cedar Point, 2003, Intamin And here's pictures from all the companies that have built hypercoasters... Arrow Dynamics (the original) Magnum XL-200 @ Cedar Point B&M Diamondback @ Kings Island Intamin Bizarro @ Six Flags New England (formerly Superman: Ride of Steel) Giovanola Goliath @ Six Flags Magic Mountain TOGO (Da-Da-Dum!!!) Fujiyama @ Fuji-Q Highland Morgan Mamba @ Worlds of Fun Roller Coaster Corporation of America (Wooden) Son of Beast @ Kings Island All of these are technically hypercoasters...all are over 200', but under 300'. And notice the diversity of track styles, trains, etc etc. Hope this shows people some things about hypercoasters...including how common they seem to be these days...Magnum XL-200, what have you done?!?! Oh, and my comments on the two other "topics" (dang, this is a crazy thread): Remove Adventure Express? F--- NO! It's a great family ride and has amazing capacity, and it still has MANY, MANY more years of service left. Cedar Creek Mine Ride, another Mine Train @ Cedar Point, opened in 1968. And is still going strong. AE is very young in comparison, having only opened in 1991. Flight Deck's death "imminent?"- I can't be sure, but Big Bad Wolf @ BGW operated for 25 years (1984-2009) before it finally kicked the bucket. Based on that, Flight Deck's demise is due for...2018. We still have 6 more years, based on that...in fact, Vortex might go before Flight Deck does...however, popularity could be a factor in an early demise for either of these rides...I'm pretty sure BBW was very popular before it closed.

Well, when Son of Beast was even open (2000-2009), it did get long lines...though not all of that had to do with popularity, as it was the ride's capacity. Son of Beast was designed to run 3 Premier Rides 6-people-per car, 6-car trains. Had this worked, SOB would have had GREAT capacity. However, RCCA screwed that (among many other things) up and the ride could only run two of those trains. Then, in 2006, they reduced the trains from 6-cars to just 5. And then came the 2006 accident. And then, with the loop gone, the "current" (?) trains were added- Gerstlauer trains that had 4 passengers per car, and 6 cars...for comparison, that's 24 riders per car. Racer's current trains take 30 per car, and The Original Beast can take 36 per train (similar to original SOB). Son of Beast was running trains that were more in line with a small, 80-foot, 3000 or so foot long wooden coaster....not a 200', 7000-plus-foot-long wooden hypercoaster that takes 3 minutes to run its course. The result? Son of Beast often ended up with a 45 minute or longer wait on most days- not just longer than Vortex or Adventure Express, SOB would often have longer lines than its higher-capacity father...maybe even longer than Diamondback! If SOB does re-open, the "fix" had better include longer trains- because, imagine if SOB's fix does work, and causes it to actually be popular...but they don't change the trains length (it stays 6-car, 4-seater) at all...imagine the wait time you're looking at! I've also got something to say on the whole "hypercoaster" topic...but I'll do that in another post...coming shortly...

Amusement Parks are fun...but adding theme makes them so much better. It doesn't need to be much to make a difference, as even a little can go a long way...but, having seen (but never been to) parks like Busch Gardens or Universal Studios...wow. No comparison, really. I've always imagined what might happen if there was a GIANT, thrill-oriented, heavily themed theme park with numerous (rivaling CP and SFMM) world-class roller coasters...including gigantic ones, such as hyper and even giga or strata coasters. And if it was located somewhere near Central Indiana... GYK's fantasy parks looked awesome in this regard (even if neither one had a wooden coaster- but hey, don't all parks need future new attractions ?).

Some pics of famous wooden coasters outside KI by famous companies: THE GRAVITY GROUP (Ride Shown: The Voyage @ Holiday World) I've actually been on this one. It's big, rough, ultra-intense, and can pack a lot of air-time...Also notice the 90-degree turns, something the GG is very proud to be able to do on wooden coasters...the ride currently uses 4-seater PTC trains until the Timberliners are ready. (Note: There are even different PTC trains- The Voyage's PTCs, for example, hold 4 people per car. The Beast and Racer here at KI hold 6- but the bigger trains are supposedly not able to corner nearly as well as the smaller PTCs...) GREAT COASTERS INTERNTAIONAL (GCII, Ride Shown: Thunderhead @ Dollywood) I think this image does a good job of showing what Terpy meant by "GCII likes twisted track", eh? You can also get a decent view of a Millennium Flyer train- it's a very open, "old-school-looking" wooden coaster train that corners VERY well due to its tiny size per car. Bonus "Fun Fact": While Kings Island does not have a GCII wooden coaster, GCII was once claimed in an interview that Kings Island was, in fact, a customer for GCII- possibly meaning GCII does track work and supplies wooden coaster parts for Kings Island's wooden coasters. I have to wonder if they did the recent "overhaul" of Beast this offseason that has been getting such rave reviews... INTAMIN "PLUG N' PLAY" (Ride shown: El Toro @ Six Flags Great Adventure) Terpy already told you about how smooth these coasters are, and about their huge air-time...so I figured I'd show off their massive size. Compare El Toro (the brown wooden coaster) to Rolling Thunder, SFGadv's "traditional" wooden coaster, and see the size difference...El Toro is MASSIVE (181' to be exact)! If we ever see a 200' wooden coaster again, I bet you it will probably be one of these...also, most Intamin Plug & Play woodies use 6-seater trains, but they are not PTCs. Here's a pic of El Toro's trains: And those, in pictures, are some of today's top wooden coaster builders. Of course, there are a lot more wooden coaster builders out there, and still more types of wooden coaster trains (even some by B&M and Morgan, of all the possible builders) but these 3 usually dominate when the "best wooden coaster" polls come out. Granted, there is also that newcomer, Rocky Mountain Coasters, but I'm not 100% sure we can even call their rides woodies due to the steel track they seem to use...

...the water main that serves the park breaks, and they cannot serve their free soda? They do this: http://www.themeparkfoodie.net/post/25404757863/holidayworldboilorder All I can say is: WOW. The Koch Family truly goes above and beyond to provide great service, and it shows. (Wonder what would happen if the same thing happened at Kings Island, Cedar Point, a Six Flags, Busch, Disney, etc etc...)

OK, someone else on this site made a topic called "What if..." and it basically asked the question: What if Paramount had never sold KI to Cedar Fair? It was an interesting topic, and it got me thinking about other "what-if" Kings Island questions. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who may have thought of some of these, and thus, I decided: why not discuss some other "what-ifs"? And for a start, we need only look only to that massive hunk o' wood next to Adventure Express... When Son of Beast was still in the planning stages, Kings Island, I've been told, went to Custom Coasters International (CCI) first. CCI was famous in the late 90's/early 2000s for their successes with The Raven @ Holiday World and Shivering Timbers @ Michigan's Adventure, to name a few. However, CCI did not want anything to do with a 200', looping wooden roller coaster- they thought it was too much of a risk. So Kings Island went on, and went to RCCA, who went and accepted the project. And screwed up. And got fired. And Kings Island had to finish SOB by itself. And it got delayed. And it finally opened. And it sucked (according to most). Then it had its accident in '06. Then loop was gone. And it still sucked. And it got closed again, possibly for good- $30,000,000+ down the tube. This, sadly, is the true story of Son of Beast...but now the "What if" comes in... In this scenario, CCI has a sudden burst of "boldness" and actually agrees to build Son of Beast. What might have happened? Would PTC have also agreed to the project if CCI was building it? Would the ride still have been unbearably rough, or would SOB have been a success? And how would other parks (SFGadv was rumored to have wanted to build an even bigger wooden coaster with TWO loops, but when SOB tanked, chose to build El Toro instead) have responded? Have fun, and let the "what if" discussion begin...I am curious to see some of your theories. If you dislike, click back. Or the savage ninja kittens will find you. And you don't want to know what they can do to you... PS: I think this topic belongs in "polls"...but perhaps not. If not, please let me know. Or have a mod move it. Thanks.

Amusement Park: I, tragically, cannot choose between Kings Island and Holiday World, so it's a tie. Both parks have things I love (and don't love) about them. I adore them both...and these just so happen to be the only parks I've been to, outside of Indiana Beach (and I haven't been there since 1999). I really need to visit some more parks... Waterpark: Splashin' Safari wins by default, as I have never been to KI's waterpark or a stand-alone waterpark...but it would probably still beat most of them, given their epic waterslide collection...

^ I would love to see the Koch Family running Indiana Beach...they have such a reputation for well-run, clean, and friendly amusement parks and those 3 things are IB's current "weak" points. Plus, Indiana Beach has some solid wooden coasters- something Holiday World is also known for. My only gripe would be, that if IB got better & better, they would also likely become much more crowded, and I'm not sure how well their low-capacity rides like LoCo SuMo would handle that... (3+ hour wait on a normal weekend in May?)

Well, ouch. I'm seriously doubting this park's chances of re-opening now, but at least the Koch Family, when they realized how bad this really was, got out- so Holiday World is safe. But, will anyone else rise up to possibly "take" this challenge? I doubt it. So much for another amusement park choice within a reasonable distance from central Indy for me to visit... Alas, this means the Koch family can instead focus on improving Holiday World, and with the money that they would have put into KK, possibly making a large addition to their current park. That new steel coaster could well be on its way now...

Marsh Stores in Indianapolis have them...for $37.95. I'm not 100% sure if they get any cheaper.

OK, I'll bite...with a top 5 list...I have been to Indiana Beach (not since 1999 though), Kings Island, and Holiday World... MCSALSA'S TOP 5 WOODEN COASTERS #1-The Beast Huge drops (135' and 141'). High speeds (64.77mph). 7,359 feet of track buried in 35 acres of dense woods. 4 tunnels. A 540 degree helix finale. Amazing pacing. Awesome Night Rides. I know it has little airtime and tons of straight track, but it does everything else so well, I don't really care. #2-The Voyage As good as Beast is, it is only #1 because of its night rides. My #1 woodie with the Sun up is The Voyage. The Voyage, when running properly, is downright epic...I did not give a (SHUT YO MOUTH) that the ride beat the tar out of me. It had downright INSANE airtime that made Diamondback look like a puppy, numerous "head choppers" (Voyage's airtime+head choppers combo is downright crazy...crazy fun!) too many tunnels to count, and unrelenting intensity. To be fair, I have never ridden The Voyage @ Night, mainly because Holiday World, for some reason, closes early...however, I would love to go to Holiwood Nights or some other event if I got the chance, simply to try this sucker at night...one of the few things that I can knock against The Voyage, however, was that my last 2 rides on it were far inferior to what I got in 2010 (the ride had little airtime for some reason, killing the head chopper effect, and was even rougher than usual!). #3-The Legend Yeah, if I ever do Holiwood Nights, I can't forget Legend either. The ride packs the best first drop I've ever been on, wood or steel, lots of airtime, interaction with other rides, strong laterals, a helix, tunnels...Legend is the all-you-can-eat buffet of wooden roller coasters! However, it falls to #3 simply because these elements, on their own, while great fun, can't quite overcome The Beast or The Voyage. #4-The Raven The smallest and oldest wooden coaster at Holiday World, The Raven is a coaster that packs more "oomph" than it looks. It's got solid airtime (strangely missing when I rode in 2011), respectable laterals, and great pacing. And it, like Beast, is buried in the forest and even one-ups Beast in this category by going over a lake! And it's also very smooth for a woodie! So why is Raven only #4? One reason, and one alone- it's simply far too short. I'm digging this awesome ride, and then buzzkill...there's the brakes, already. (Kings Island's Flight Deck has this same problem) #5-The Racer (I perfer Red Racer) Believe it or not, I once hated this ride, because it scared me to death as a 9-year-old. I didn't know what airtime was, and it made me think I was going to fall out. 9 years later, however, after overcoming my fear of coasters (thanks to Beast) and learning what airtime was (thanks to Diamondback), I gave Racer a second chance. It's been forgiven- the ride is quite simple, as you go up and down up and down up and down and get good airtime, turn around, and do it again. But it's got that classic wood coaster appeal. And it was, ironically, the first ride I ever managed to hold my hands up the entire ride, 12 years after it scared me to death in 2000. Honorable Mention: Hoosier Hurricane @ Indiana Beach I loved Hoosier Hurricane as a kid, rode it 3 times with my dad. Wasn't afraid of it...went on it 3 times...then went on Racer @ KI and became afraid of roller coasters...I would like to get back to IB someday, a friend of mine went recently and said HH was running great (but he also told me that IB has, as I have feared, become run-down)... This is current as of 6/14/2012. I have yet to ride such epic rides as El Toro (SFGadv), Boulder Dash, Colossos (Heide Park), T-Express, Hades, Shivering Timbers, Cornball Express, Ravine Flyer II, Son of El Toro (coming to SFGadv in 2013 ), etc etc. There is a possibility that all 5 of my current top 5 coasters could fall out of the list... PS: One of the coasters I listed above is fake and a joke...

A correction for the Original Poster: The map you list as "2001.1" is actually the 2000 Park Map...no mention of Nickelodeon Central (which was new for 2001) and it still says NEW- Son of Beast (which opened in 2000). However, thanks for posting these!

My experience on Delirium is: fun. The ride is packed with airtime and swinging around at 76mph is just pure bliss. I have never gotten sick after riding it, either. However, waiting in line for Delirium for 1 hour and having the ride break just before you get on? Not fun. Not fun at all.