KI Guy

There's a good chance we know where AF1 is going before the official announcement by spotting track at one of the parks. I remember back in '07 Firehawk track was spotted in the Kings Island parking lot ahead of the official announcement.

Six Flags Over Leveraged

For perspective, Paramount Parks was purchased for $1.26 billion in 2006.

That depends on their strategy. Is AF1 a stand-in for what would have been a $25-30M investment in better financial times for the company (B&M, Mack, Premier)? Is this the only significant investment for a Kings Island or Cedar Point for the next 3 years? If so, the cost of an additional block zone added onto the costs of the purchase, shipping and land grading may be not all that significant. I think it will go to KI or Carowinds. It probably fits into Carowinds better regarding location and capacity-wise. I think KI is in worse shape and could use the investment more given the state of Action Zone and the fact that Carowinds is already getting a large capex project next year. I don't see Carowinds getting a big project in 2 out of 3 seasons. Only Cedar Point has been getting that kind of treatment lately.

I very much doubt FoF would be completely refurbished. You can count on one hand the number of steel coasters that have gotten that treatment. I think it becomes disposable once there is another large scale launching coaster in the park. I'm pretty shocked that Invertigo has lasted as long as it has given we have Banshee.

There is definitely a need for a launch coaster, but I'm not so sure that Flight of Fear isn't also on borrowed time. I know it's an energy hog and it's quite old. I wouldn't be shocked to see it gone within the next 6 or 7 years. I'm all for ArieForce One because most of what Cedar Fair / Six Flags have put out lately has just been ok rather than outstanding. AF1 is a surefire top 10 coaster. Also, I don't think that getting AF1 necessarily means that KI doesn't get another (launch) coaster 3 years later on The Vortex plot. AF1 might just be the odd one off.

Engineers correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine they could have flat track and if what you mentioned is a concern they could beef up the drive wheels as needed. As long as they're not working against the grade I don't see a problem. The larger point is that if they want to do it they can probably figure it out.

If they go that route I see it being a relatively easy/cheap modification. They put a roughly train length block zone directly behind the loading station. After hitting the final brakes, the track is changed to bend to the left and eventually makes a right hand or u-shaped turn depending on the angle to link up with the new block zone. Given that RMC is already going to be there to modify supports that doesn't seem all that bad or expensive. You don't even need to worry about having a grade/slope on the new track because the coaster already uses rollers so they'd just add a few more of those. Lastly, RMC has all the incentive in the world to get in good graces with a company it had largely stopped working with. AF1 will be a showcase of what their ground up i-boxes can be for Cedar Flags.

You must have misunderstood my long post. I definitely wasn't defending the investment.

A fun topic… Using the format below please give a few examples of all-time great, good, ok, and bad roller coaster names. [Personally, I hate when they from pull some obscure mythology or concept and make a name out of it. In general any name that needs a heavy explanation is a bad name.] -- All-Time Greats: The Beast, Shivering Timbers, GhostRider, Gemini, Apollo's Chariot, Loch Ness Monster, Colossus, El Toro, Goliath Good: Diamondback, Banshee, Big Bad Wolf, Thunderbird, Screamin' Demon, Phoenix, Sooper Dooper Looper, Shooting Star, Raven, Farenheit Ok: Mystic Timbers, Millennium Force, Adventure Express, Firehawk, Wild Eagle Bad: Rougarou, Orion, Pantherian, Bakunawa, Thrill Glider, Valravn, Steel Vengeance, Flight Deck, Maxx Force, X-Flight, Scream! Bonus for Greatest Logo: A close contest between The Beast and Son of Beast.

Is it really wild in the context of Kings Island history? Orion was only $4.5M more than Diamondback in 2020 dollars. This is an unprecedented gap between major coasters. It's going to be a minimum of 8 years. That's 3 years longer than the park has ever gone. I get that the parent company hasn't been doing well, but as a customer that's not my problem. I just want Kings Island to return to what it always was which is a great park that was always home to something new. @DonHelbig used to always say "There's always something new at Kings Island." That's just not true anymore. If this goes on for much longer the park starts to look like Great Adventure circa 2021 where people come to ride rides from it's heyday 15+ years ago with only mediocre filler added since.

Using AF1 as a way to change the conversation about SIX may be a bridge too far. Trying to get people excited about a coaster that they may get also may be asking too much. With that said, AF1 is generally considered one of the greatest coasters in the world ranked above any Kings Island coaster. I don't see how it being a "hand-me-down" or from a "failed park" make any difference in the ride experience. It's an excellent ride. Lastly, I think you can rest assured they're not going to heavily modify this thing because after all that costs money. They'll get it running and maybe add a third train by way of adding an unload station.

Remember that a private owner could also be a pretty large company not just a wealthy family. Taft Broadcasting was kind of a sweet spot because the parks were a small slice of the larger corporation. Under Paramount the parks promoted the movies and the performance of the parks themselves to justify every capex dollar was not as scrutinized as it was under CF and now Six. Regarding purchasing power Herschend seems to be doing just fine with that with their $30,000,000 Fire in the Hole and $60,000,000 million NightFlight Expedition. Last thing to consider. Kings Island is currently pumping more money into the corporation than they are getting out of it. Money they generate is going to less successful parks for investment in them. That would not happen as often in a smaller group of parks.

I don't think they make it out and I'm actively hoping for either a sell off, split, or the dream— a sale to a private owner. There will be several people on this forum who will sing "ding dong the witch is dead" when it finally happens. Some parks likely won't survive, but that's just how it has to be. I'm not renewing my pass for just the 2nd time in 23 years and I'm not the only one.

Whether the coaster is relocated won't matter with time. Ask the Phoenix fans at Knoebel's.

I think the whole area will be revamped over time. Action Zone hasn't been touched for many years and the attractions are quite old. There's also a lot of dead space over there including TimberWolf and the old Xtreme Skyflyer pad. TimberWolf is a nothingburger, but I think some guests would miss Congo Falls. If they plan to also remove Invertigo in the near future, there will be plenty of room for a future family water attraction like the one coming to Carowinds (assuming that is a success). Alternatively they could build a Congo Falls replacement on The Vortex plot or even on the Tomb Raider site. P.S. Yes, I know I sound like I'm playing Roller Coaster Tycoon here, but I'm just trying to think ahead.

It makes sense given the financial position of SIX. They are unwilling or unable to spend big capex on the large former Cedar Fair parks that were taken care of pre-Covid. All the big money is going to the legacy Six parks in big markets. They must realize though that one of their parks could use AF1 especially at fire sale prices. This is probably the best possible ride for the money out there or they wouldn't be doing it. This is a top 10 coaster in the United States per most enthusiasts.

Although this is mostly a criticism of Six Flags, it comes off as a criticism of us at KICentral. I think it's nice to have something exciting to talk about. The lifeblood of this place is talking about changes and potential changes to Kings Island. I do definitely agree with you that they know exactly where this coaster is going regarding park and location within that park. I've noticed that wood coasters are the exception to the rule for coaster redundancy. I've been to several parks with three full-sized wood coasters and no one bats an eye. Perhaps this is because wood used to be all there were and people got used to seeing more than one wood coaster long ago—or it's just that each wood coaster has more character. I've never been to a park with two RMC I-boxes, two dive coasters, Arrow loopers, mine trains, stand ups, or inverts (from same manufacturer), etc.

This would be ideal. Can anyone check the scaling?

Glad to hear it. I have not renewed my pass either. If they do add AF1, I'll be back.

The drink improvements are not likely. It's been an ongoing issue for many years. My question for you is why do you still buy the drink plan? If more people hold them accountable maybe they'll wake up. Regarding the turnstiles they'd rather force people to use an app when all you really need is a barcode or a chip card found at every hotel for the last 10 years They don't care about us; they only care about cutting costs. They think people won't notice, but they're dead wrong. They are eroding the relationship with tomorrow's customer to save a buck today. But then again why would they care about the long term health of the park when they primarily care about quarterly results and the stock price?

I had the drink plan for a couple years but stopped after I had too many drinks without either ice or syrup. Your sentiment is correct.

Don't give us false hope. That would be awesome!

All the while, below the surface the cracks had already started to form on the business side of things. Cedar Fair had still have not recovered from the lost revenue from the 2020 limited operating year. That was the seed that made them eventually look toward a merger.

I noticed that when I click a forum thread it always takes me back to the beginning of the thread rather than my last place I had read. Anyone else have this issue?