KI Guy

I've heard this and even if true it doesn't make anything better. Allocate the money in time for the parks to actually spend it. Not doing so just shows the powers that be in Charlotte don't care. It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense either since Sol Spin ended up not opening until June 9 of that year. I also find it hard to believe the manufacturer couldn't expedite a dual seat model if given a little extra money. Money talks and... you know the rest...

This is a topic that may have gotten me pelted with proverbial "rotten tomatoes" 5 years ago, but I think some of you may be starting to see the same thing. Kings Island does not seem to be the park it was 15 years ago. Summertime hours have been lessened, special events (think visits from the Reds, Wallendas, eating contests, celebrity visits, food truck events, etc.) are close to non-existent. Shows have been lessened. Halloween Haunt is a shell of what it once was. The park is no longer as beautiful as it once was. The greatest example being the essential destruction of the Royal Fountain. What could have been a loving restoration became a cost saving replacement. Ride additions are not what they once were. They are spaced further apart and are not the "world class additions" that Kings Island was known for until around 2015 or so. One glaring example of this cost cutting is Sol Spin-- the park bought the smaller capacity model with 1 seat per arm and not the side-by-side model. There was absolutely no reason to do this other than cost. My other example is that the Beagle Scout Acres play area. It was clearly done with almost no money and it shows. The clientele has gotten rougher. Kings Island remains a babysitter for many. The unrulier the kids the more likely this will be the case. Food and drink lines are exceedingly long no longer moderated by the expensive prices given the meal plans. The reduced operating hours have made the park consistently "more busy" which has dragged down the value of a season pass. I have to believe this is by design, making people wait is good for business because it means more will buy Fast Lane. Yet another anti-consumer move that will ultimately lessen the experience for a lot of people. A very large caveat is that I don't think this is the fault of the park staff. I still think they are some of the best in the business and KI's ride operations are the finest in Cedar Fair/Six Flags. This is a corporate problem. The powers that be would rather squeeze KI for all it's worth now than invest in the park for generations to come. It's corporate's attitude and goals that have changed. The "best day ever" has become "make their day good enough." My question to you all is do you agree with my general thoughts and what will be the ultimate result? Will the Six Flags merger ultimately succeed or fail? What will KI look like in 10 years?

I disagree. Some of the worst offenders are going to be 16–20-year-olds and the chaperone policy only covers those under 15. If the policy were strictly enforced and passes were revoked without a refund for fighters people would learn their lesson or not come back. Once the park decided to offer meal plans as an add-on for season passes, the park became the tri-state's cheapest babysitter for a lot of parents. Expensive meals and drinks were the last barrier to using the park for this. And I know some of you don't think 20-year-olds need a babysitter or get dumped by their parents at KI, but you better believe some of them do on both counts. If they're living under their roof, I know some parents were dying to get a break from them come opening day. The kids who misbehave are also the ones most likely for their parents to want a break from them which further aggravates the problem. Every year they continue sell meal plans they favor money over experience and safety.

I see this as a good sign that management decided that Action Zone should be prioritized over The Vortex plot which I strongly believe was the correct decision. Action Zone is the ugliest area of the park with little shade and no discernable theme. There is no balance to the ride lineup in the area. Everything there —outside of Congo Falls— could be considered on the thrill side. The rides in Action Zone are quite old and won't be around forever so replacements will need to move in. The eleven-year-old Banshee is the most recent attraction. Action Zone is a ton of land with relatively few attractions, and only one marque attraction. I seriously doubt Skyflyer netted much if any money in its final years. The Vortex plot will be addressed after AZ at some point, but that area of Coney/Rivertown is in much better shape overall than AZ.

Don't put too much stock into spending "records." They're not useful for anything other than marketing and stock reporting statements. Take KI for instance, Son of Beast, Diamondback, Banshee, and Orion were all the most expensive investments in the park's history the year they were added.That's how things go with inflation. Dorney had not added a new coaster since 2005, so any decent coaster would have been a spending record. It's much more meaningful to look at what they are spending on average annually per park. "Scaling back their products" includes reduced park hours, early ride closures, ride removals, stale/lessened Haunt experience, lack of special events, etc. It's so much more than just how much they invest in new attractions.

Fixed that for you.

Firehawk's loop- If you rode in the back or front you could see the other end of the train enter or exit the loop. The forces/whip as you hit the bottom of the loop were impressive.

Yes, believe it or not. While "extending" The Beast would be a more harmless modification I just don't think it's the best idea. Instead of adding a half of a roller coaster to The Beast, just build another wooden roller coaster. If you want it Beast themed make it Father of The Beast, a coaster prequel! Not to mention you have a huge drop followed by (not counting track used for the third lift) less than 2000 ft of track. That thing will be FLYING into the brakes. They'd need to add 5000ft+ for it to make sense. The penny pinching is getting crazy.

The Kings Island campground was on the site where Great Wolf Lodge is currently. You used to be able to get a good view of it from Top Gun. The campground land was sold, and trees were cleared for Great Wolf in 2005. I remember being hopeful that the clearing was for a ride.

Maybe make mine a 15 year timeline. International Street: Rebuild Pedestal Fountains. Replace current building lighting with more period string lights. Planet/Camp Snoopy: Retheme remainder to Camp Snoopy. Replace Beagle Scout acres with a kids play area similar to the now defunct Dr. Suess area at Universal. Lots of Trees Rivertown: Remove the Crypt building. Build something similar to KCKC. More trees Coney Mall: Remove Backlot Stunt Coaster and relocate it to Michigan's Adventure. In its place create a new Swan Lake with plenty of park benches and landscaping. this would bring some park back into this theme park. Trees. Area 72: Expand existing bathroom Adventure Port: Remain as is. Oktoberfest: Hardly exists at this point (see below) Action Zone: Full retheme to Oktoberfest. Invertigo, Xtreme Skyflyer removed for future expansion. RMC Hybrid coaster or Mack Extreme Spinner. Many more trees.

Given the small size of that plot it's much more likely that a non-coaster attraction like a flat ride or two (or nothing) is built there than another coaster. Three coasters is enough for that area in my opinion especially considering the lack of small flats or medium rides in the vicinity. My caveat to that would be that I could expect a coaster in the area if they were to remove Congo Falls around the same time. Another plausible location for the next big coaster in the area is probably The Bat plot (arguably the best terrain in the park for a coaster).

Agreed, and this is the thing I always mention to folks who claim that "Park X is running out of room", most commonly with regard to Cedar Point. That park has more than enough room given the other constraints - operations, maintenance, etc. Yes, but historically with the possible exception of the CBS years (2005-06??) they've both added additions on time and maintained what they had well. It's concerning because they have always done both assumably to compete but now it's become an "either/or"? I assume they did both in the past because that was best for the business; why is it now decided that only one is necessary? You know that this is not how they have to add things. Diamondback opened in 2009. Construction started with tree clearing in 2007 and some footers were poured by opening day 2008. The timeline for Mystic Timbers was similar. To be clear, I don't fault the operators/management of KI. It's not their fault if people in Charlotte are slow to make decisions or decide that opening new attractions after the park's opening day is now acceptable.

Indyguy, if these were the only choices I would go with opening late. They are not the only choices though. Even if I were to accept the premise that the changes are purely market driven, I still can't let them off the hook. To me Kings Island has had a standard for excellence and it should continue to meet that standard. Make no mistake, the powers that be have decided to chip away at that standard in hopes of it paying off for them in the short term. They just as easily could have held themselves to that standard by way of increasing prices. What they're doing a mistake. That is how you become Six Flags.

Very good point, Don. I had not seen that yet myself. That's unfortunate for long-time parkgoers who remember better operations, but also more importantly for the park, the newer guests whose opinions of the park are not formed yet. It's shortsighted to think that things like not racing The Racer or cutting hours here and there don't matter.

@DJSkyFoxx Yes, the three parks having different owners made it special because they were really in competition. And I know that inter-park competition is usually overestimated by enthusiasts, there was significant competition for Columbus and Northeast Ohio back then. Cedar Fair has done a good job with KI overall, but at this point I think it would probably be better for the patrons of both parks if they were separate again. There is just too much temptation to coast when you have a stranglehold on the market and there's going to be a loss of uniqueness when the same people are making the big decisions for both parks.