KI Guy

This has been talked to death on this forum. We understand families spend more per capita. However, what few here ever seem to realize is that the families and the gold pass thrill seekers are the same people! If the park plays its cards right, today's kids enjoying Camp Snoopy are the future thrill seekers who spend less. Later on, they become the parents of their own kids and hopefully bring their own families to the park and spend the big bucks. You cannot exist in the business and only cater to families unless you're on the level of Disney. What also seems to be missed here is that the "family window" is a pretty short span of time. That's going to be parents with kids aged 3 – 12 or so. After that, the older kids will ride what they are tall enough for including The Beast and Diamondback. After this age the kids also tend to want to go to the park without their parents starting around 14 or so [insert chaperone disclaimer]. Regional amusement parks are low margin and must cater to both thrillseekers and non-thrillseekers just to get by. Ultimately thrills are what separates Kings Island from the zoos and museums of the world and even the lower tier amusement parks.

After a while this sounds like a talking point. When they spend money they are "a home of world class thrills," when they invest small they are "catering to families." When they invest nothing it's we just had "[name investment] ____ years ago." The fact of the matter is that Kings Island used to invest in both families and thrills and they used to invest a lot more than they do now. The "off years" used to be the waterpark or a kids' area revamp. Now the off years are nothing. Non-ethusiasts realize this too. People realize when the park acts like a politician, marketing itself in whatever way is convenient at the moment. Also, the 6.9% attendance decrease for Kings Island from 2024 to 2025 is more relevant than where it is ranks in the chain attendance-wise.

The rides are closed because their safety is in question. Their safety is in question because there may have been a mechanical failure on the train. The money reason they're closed is because if the unthinkable were to happen again before the investigation is done then that would be a company ending event.

There's a good chance we know where AF1 is going before the official announcement by spotting track at one of the parks. I remember back in '07 Firehawk track was spotted in the Kings Island parking lot ahead of the official announcement.

Six Flags Over Leveraged

For perspective, Paramount Parks was purchased for $1.26 billion in 2006.

That depends on their strategy. Is AF1 a stand-in for what would have been a $25-30M investment in better financial times for the company (B&M, Mack, Premier)? Is this the only significant investment for a Kings Island or Cedar Point for the next 3 years? If so, the cost of an additional block zone added onto the costs of the purchase, shipping and land grading may be not all that significant. I think it will go to KI or Carowinds. It probably fits into Carowinds better regarding location and capacity-wise. I think KI is in worse shape and could use the investment more given the state of Action Zone and the fact that Carowinds is already getting a large capex project next year. I don't see Carowinds getting a big project in 2 out of 3 seasons. Only Cedar Point has been getting that kind of treatment lately.

I very much doubt FoF would be completely refurbished. You can count on one hand the number of steel coasters that have gotten that treatment. I think it becomes disposable once there is another large scale launching coaster in the park. I'm pretty shocked that Invertigo has lasted as long as it has given we have Banshee.

There is definitely a need for a launch coaster, but I'm not so sure that Flight of Fear isn't also on borrowed time. I know it's an energy hog and it's quite old. I wouldn't be shocked to see it gone within the next 6 or 7 years. I'm all for ArieForce One because most of what Cedar Fair / Six Flags have put out lately has just been ok rather than outstanding. AF1 is a surefire top 10 coaster. Also, I don't think that getting AF1 necessarily means that KI doesn't get another (launch) coaster 3 years later on The Vortex plot. AF1 might just be the odd one off.

Engineers correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine they could have flat track and if what you mentioned is a concern they could beef up the drive wheels as needed. As long as they're not working against the grade I don't see a problem. The larger point is that if they want to do it they can probably figure it out.

If they go that route I see it being a relatively easy/cheap modification. They put a roughly train length block zone directly behind the loading station. After hitting the final brakes, the track is changed to bend to the left and eventually makes a right hand or u-shaped turn depending on the angle to link up with the new block zone. Given that RMC is already going to be there to modify supports that doesn't seem all that bad or expensive. You don't even need to worry about having a grade/slope on the new track because the coaster already uses rollers so they'd just add a few more of those. Lastly, RMC has all the incentive in the world to get in good graces with a company it had largely stopped working with. AF1 will be a showcase of what their ground up i-boxes can be for Cedar Flags.

You must have misunderstood my long post. I definitely wasn't defending the investment.

A fun topic… Using the format below please give a few examples of all-time great, good, ok, and bad roller coaster names. [Personally, I hate when they from pull some obscure mythology or concept and make a name out of it. In general any name that needs a heavy explanation is a bad name.] -- All-Time Greats: The Beast, Shivering Timbers, GhostRider, Gemini, Apollo's Chariot, Loch Ness Monster, Colossus, El Toro, Goliath Good: Diamondback, Banshee, Big Bad Wolf, Thunderbird, Screamin' Demon, Phoenix, Sooper Dooper Looper, Shooting Star, Raven, Farenheit Ok: Mystic Timbers, Millennium Force, Adventure Express, Firehawk, Wild Eagle Bad: Rougarou, Orion, Pantherian, Bakunawa, Thrill Glider, Valravn, Steel Vengeance, Flight Deck, Maxx Force, X-Flight, Scream! Bonus for Greatest Logo: A close contest between The Beast and Son of Beast.

Is it really wild in the context of Kings Island history? Orion was only $4.5M more than Diamondback in 2020 dollars. This is an unprecedented gap between major coasters. It's going to be a minimum of 8 years. That's 3 years longer than the park has ever gone. I get that the parent company hasn't been doing well, but as a customer that's not my problem. I just want Kings Island to return to what it always was which is a great park that was always home to something new. @DonHelbig used to always say "There's always something new at Kings Island." That's just not true anymore. If this goes on for much longer the park starts to look like Great Adventure circa 2021 where people come to ride rides from it's heyday 15+ years ago with only mediocre filler added since.

Using AF1 as a way to change the conversation about SIX may be a bridge too far. Trying to get people excited about a coaster that they may get also may be asking too much. With that said, AF1 is generally considered one of the greatest coasters in the world ranked above any Kings Island coaster. I don't see how it being a "hand-me-down" or from a "failed park" make any difference in the ride experience. It's an excellent ride. Lastly, I think you can rest assured they're not going to heavily modify this thing because after all that costs money. They'll get it running and maybe add a third train by way of adding an unload station.