Lin Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I don't like this. At all. Sure, management remaining in place will make all the difference, keeping out all the bad things that afflict the other parks but....I'm still concerned. I think a year is really...just too soon to say "We need out" It's curious though. If they had an idea they were going to "need" to sell, why follow through with Firehawk, SoB repairs, Great Wolf Lodge, and Maverick? And yeah, I was just there today, there was a TON of people eating at their cars. But, can you blame them? $10 for a bottle of water and 2 egg rolls? $3 for a bottle of pop? It's ridiculous. There's a fine line between charging too much and too little and they've screwed up. This is hurting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 Note that Cedar Fair had absolutely nothing to do with Great Wolf Lodge. They did not buy it, they have no financial interest in it (nor does CBS now), and the contract to make it the "Official Resort of Kings Island" was signed by Great Wolf Lodge and CBS before CBS sold its interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kwindshawne Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Yes, the prices are out of control. We never did that in the early days, and my family is not exactly rich, so I know the prices were comparable at the time. I would think it would be more sensible to lower the prices, to keep people in the park, and add better restaurants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 And a major concern is how much damage has already been done to future admissions? How many Moms and Dads, and teens for that matter, who would normally have come back later this season or even next year, will remember those prices and decide to do something else instead--from watching DVD's to going to a movie to staying home and swimming in the pool to saving up and going to Disney? Remember, for the biggest spenders in the park, statisically, it is the Moms and Dads who have the veto factor--families take the kids to the Kings Islands of the world but not if Mom and/or Dad say "No, I remember what it cost and we can't do that this year." People have long memories and many alternatives to going to a theme park. If even a few percent of guests are so upset over pricing, and don't JUST eat in their car but instead go somewhere else, what a hole Cedar Fair has dug for itself or whoever operates the parks in the future. This is particularly true with current gas prices. Imagine if a recession comes on top of all this. Even if the parks lower prices at that time, it will take a lot to get some of these people back. Some may be lost forever. On the other hand, I felt the same way about $15 parking at Six Flags (except Kentucky Kingdom where they don't own the lot), and it hasn't seemed to have hurt them as much as I thought it would. In fairness, I should note however that Cedar Point season pass parking costs more than at Six Flags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 And to think less than a week ago I thought they might no longer own Kings Island in 2012 (and got several nasty PM's for thinking such a thing): http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=165020 If I would have saw that comment I would have supported it. I still am not a fan of CF having a 'monopoly' (never a good thing - Geauga Lake should pray they get bought) on the amusement park industry in Ohio. While CF runs good amusement parks, they ruin theme parks (check out some of the comments KBF fans have had over the years since CF took over). I also felt that the debt would soon or later show up in less investment in the parks as they try and get the giant DEBT GORILLA off their backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 And a major concern is how much damage has already been done to future admissions? How many Moms and Dads, and teens for that matter, who would normally have come back later this season or even next year, will remember those prices and decide to do something else instead--from watching DVD's to going to a movie to staying home and swimming in the pool to saving up and going to Disney? Remember, for the biggest spenders in the park, statisically, it is the Moms and Dads who have the veto factor--families take the kids to the Kings Islands of the world but not if Mom and/or Dad say "No, I remember what it cost and we can't do that this year." People have long memories and many alternatives to going to a theme park. If even a few percent of guests are so upset over pricing, and don't JUST eat in their car but instead go somewhere else, what a hole Cedar Fair has dug for itself or whoever operates the parks in the future. This is particularly true with current gas prices. Imagine if a recession comes on top of all this. Even if the parks lower prices at that time, it will take a lot to get some of these people back. Some may be lost forever. On the other hand, I felt the same way about $15 parking at Six Flags (except Kentucky Kingdom where they don't own the lot), and it hasn't seemed to have hurt them as much as I thought it would. In fairness, I should note however that Cedar Point season pass parking costs more than at Six Flags. As much as we all like to complain about it.... I really don't think that pricing has much of an affect in that area. I would have swore up and down that no one would pay $15 to park at an amusement park. But ya know..... they do. They do and no one complains! (at least that much.) I think tha people have come to expect high prices at entertainment venues. A $7 beer at Turner Field or $8 for a small popcorn and small drink at AMC Theaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Note that Cedar Fair had absolutely nothing to do with Great Wolf Lodge. They did not buy it, they have no financial interest in it (nor does CBS now), and the contract to make it the "Official Resort of Kings Island" was signed by Great Wolf Lodge and CBS before CBS sold its interest. True as it may be, they didn't have to allow it to be built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexallday Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Well there is only one answer... Donald Trump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welchce Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 If that's the case, everyone would be fired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Note that Cedar Fair had absolutely nothing to do with Great Wolf Lodge. They did not buy it, they have no financial interest in it (nor does CBS now), and the contract to make it the "Official Resort of Kings Island" was signed by Great Wolf Lodge and CBS before CBS sold its interest. True as it may be, they didn't have to allow it to be built. There was nothing for CF to "allow." Cedar Fair didn't have a say in whether it was built or not...construction was well under way on GWL long before CBS put Paramount Parks up for auction. CBS "sold" the former campground land to GWL for a 15% ownership stake in the resort. CBS offered to sell their stake to CF at the time of the acquisition, but CF turned it down. GWL has subsequently bought back the 15% from CBS and is now the sole owner of the resort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Note that Cedar Fair had absolutely nothing to do with Great Wolf Lodge. They did not buy it, they have no financial interest in it (nor does CBS now), and the contract to make it the "Official Resort of Kings Island" was signed by Great Wolf Lodge and CBS before CBS sold its interest. True as it may be, they didn't have to allow it to be built. There was nothing for CF to "allow." Cedar Fair didn't have a say in whether it was built or not...construction was well under way on GWL long before CBS put Paramount Parks up for auction. CBS "sold" the former campground land to GWL for a 15% ownership stake in the resort. CBS offered to sell their stake to CF at the time of the acquisition, but CF turned it down. GWL has subsequently bought back the 15% from CBS and is now the sole owner of the resort. Well excuuuuse me. Get off that fact and back to the other obvious things they didn't have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIDelirium Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I don't think Cedar Fair "Wants Out" I think they're just trying to sell the actual company to someone with deeper pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hauntguy Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Or they could sell some of the properties... GL, ST:TE, etc. I'm sure if ONE park was sold... it would ease the debt load a great deal!!! -Hauntguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 ^^^ well, the obvious thing wasn't going into $2B of debt for a company that (still) only has a market cap of $1.6B. (Especially a company that showed very little chance of achieving any real organic growth...) Charging $10 for a water and egg rolls is the symptom of a much larger problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hauntguy Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Or charging $15.75 for cold food, styrofoam plates, and plastic forks!!! WOW... that's quality! -Hauntguy, who believes $15.75 is too much for a buffet even out of the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 As far as prices go the average park guests does not know who owns the KI so technically this would be year 2 for them as to seeing high prices. IMO the damage has already taken hold for most KI guests and is now starting to show at the gates and I fear will only get worse. I Think Cedar Fair should have advertised that they had taken over and lowered the prices and that KI is now a great place to go for affordable family fun, but that did not happen and I know I have greatly reduced our trips as I know others have too. Here in Indiana the Department of Natural resources announced yesterday (7/9/07) that even though they have raised the prices this year to $4.00 a car to enter their parks and $5.00 on weekends, that they are on pace to break attendance records this year for their public parks. This told me that the public is still getting out but that they are looking for cheaper more affordable alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 The home cheering Sandusky Register weighs in: http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2...ront/336105.txt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexallday Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 That article made me feel a little better about the situation. Hopefully they are just exploring the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Oh, I think just exploring the idea is what the leak was all about to begin with... It's the fact that they might be even considering this so early is what really suprised people. Also, I wouldn't necessarily expect unbiased opinions about Cedar Fair from the Sandusky hometown newspaper... (Not to mention that the guy who was quoted stated that he hadn't actually spoke to anyone from the company about this...it was just his conjecture.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtk Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Re-reported by Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews...926108620070709 I do NOT see a private equity firm agreeing to keep current management...why would they assume the risk without the ability to change the risk profile? I wouldn't listen to these articles so much. This is a lot of speculation. They did the same with Macy's a few weeks ago. If you recall correctly, Macy's just bought May Company a year ago, and it's too early to draw conclusions. The reason these come up is because someone who has too much time on their hands thinks of a company that could be turned around into more profit than what it is making, then they say a private equity firm would buy them out, because they're super rich to begin with. I wouldn't count on any of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 this article says they may be looking to sell land or just certain parks: http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...ESS03/707100380 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Actually, that article quotes several observers with varying viewpoints. The part you mention is: Scott Hamann, an analyst with KeyBanc Capital Markets in Cleveland, said he has reservations about the sale report. Cedar Fair's $1.8 billion debt is considered high by some analysts, so a sale of parts of its operation to pay off some debt might make sense, he said. So, Scott Hamann says that. And even he only says he has reservations about the sale of the entire company report, which means he doesn't entirely reject that possibility, just thinks it dubious. The article itself comes to no conclusions, which is pretty wise for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlfox_21 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 this is very disturbing news. We barely even got to know Cedar Fair. go to http://www.pointbuzz.com/ to see some more interesting topics. However, what is available at this site is the same as ours, guessing, unanswered questions, and speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Furious Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 this is still all rumor from what i have gathered from reading up its more like testing the water kindof like when you are calling realtors to see what houses in your area are selling for. nothing more the a rumor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Actually, that article quotes several observers with varying viewpoints. The part you mention is: Scott Hamann, an analyst with KeyBanc Capital Markets in Cleveland, said he has reservations about the sale report. Cedar Fair's $1.8 billion debt is considered high by some analysts, so a sale of parts of its operation to pay off some debt might make sense, he said. So, Scott Hamann says that. And even he only says he has reservations about the sale of the entire company report, which means he doesn't entirely reject that possibility, just thinks it dubious. The article itself comes to no conclusions, which is pretty wise for now. I would not be suprised if they decided just to sell some parks to reduce the debt and potential boost their stock. The real question is, if they take this route, do they sell several smaller parks to get X amount of dollars or do they sell one or two big parks to get X amount of dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtk Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well CF still wants to be the best park business around, and selling the bigger parks won't help. Selling the smaller, more unheard of parks would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well CF still wants to be the best park business around, and selling the bigger parks won't help. Selling the smaller, more unheard of parks would. I guess the real question would be, who is buying and what are they willing to pay for. In today's market they may find that only a park like KI is interest to a buyer not MIA, or Valleyfair. Who knows. I just hope whatever happens it allows KI to become an even better park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtk Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well CF still wants to be the best park business around, and selling the bigger parks won't help. Selling the smaller, more unheard of parks would. I guess the real question would be, who is buying and what are they willing to pay for. In today's market they may find that only a park like KI is interest to a buyer not MIA, or Valleyfair. Who knows. I just hope whatever happens it allows KI to become an even better park. You have to keep in mind that some buyers wouldn't be interested in the theme park itself, but the real estate. Like Macy's, some CF parks sit on extremely valuable real estate, which is what starts these rumors in the first place. In some cases the land alone is worth more than keeping a theme park on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kwindshawne Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well CF still wants to be the best park business around, and selling the bigger parks won't help. Selling the smaller, more unheard of parks would. I guess the real question would be, who is buying and what are they willing to pay for. In today's market they may find that only a park like KI is interest to a buyer not MIA, or Valleyfair. Who knows. I just hope whatever happens it allows KI to become an even better park. You have to keep in mind that some buyers wouldn't be interested in the theme park itself, but the real estate. Like Macy's, some CF parks sit on extremely valuable real estate, which is what starts these rumors in the first place. In some cases the land alone is worth more than keeping a theme park on it. www.wonderland.com.au 'nuff said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well, that and perhaps http://www.geaugalake.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.