ragerunner Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 "SANDUSKY, OHIO, July 31, 2007 -- Cedar Fair Entertainment Company (NYSE: FUN), a leader in regional amusement parks, water parks and active entertainment, today announced results for the second quarter ended June 24, 2007. The 2007 figures include the results of the Paramount Parks since their acquisition from CBS Corporation on June 30, 2006. Operations, including the acquired parks, generated revenues of $274.0 million in the second quarter and net income of $5.5 million, or $0.10 per diluted limited partner unit. For the same period last year, which does not include the acquired parks, the company reported net income of $11.1 million, or $0.20 per diluted limited partner unit, on revenues of $145.4 million. Consolidated adjusted EBITDA for the quarter, which management believes is a meaningful measure of the company’s park-level operating results increased $47.7 million to $85.8 million from $38.1 million for the same period a year ago. See the attached table for a reconciliation of adjusted EBITDA to net income." First, it appears that income is about half of what it was last year, and that was without the paramount parks. Income with the Paramount Parks - $5.5 million, Income without the Paramount Parks last year - $11.1 million. I am sure other may way in hear but that doesn't look real good. As far as the EBITDA - Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization, here is some info on what this is and why companies sometimes use this (not say they are doing this). "A common misconception is that EBITDA represents cash earnings. EBITDA is a good metric to evaluate profitability, but not cash flow. EBITDA also leaves out the cash required to fund working capital and the replacement of old equipment, which can be significant. Consequently, EBITDA is often used as an accounting gimmick to dress up a company's earnings. When using this metric, it's key that investors also focus on other performance measures to make sure the company is not trying to hide something with EBITDA." http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/ebitda.asp Just some food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Attendance: July: For the past four weeks, consolidated revenues were down 1%, or $3.1 million. This is a result of a 7% decrease in attendance, or 363,000 visits,..." http://www.cedarfair.com/ir/press_releases...mp;story_id=130 Wow, that is a pretty serious decline in attendance and revenue. What makes this some what shocking is Six Flags report and increase of 3% in attendance. That a 10% attendance swing between the two companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I would say its because of the gas prices, but that would contradict the increase at Six Flags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 EBITDA is one of the best smoke & mirrors accounting metrics ever invented Wow...their operating costs have to be way out of whack--revenue increased by almost 47% from last year (which makes sense with the addition of the Paramount Parks), but net income dropped by nearly 51%?!?!? I haven't read the financials yet, but I'll go out on a limb and guess that the interest on that massive debt is the primary culprit? (You know...the "I" in EBITDA...) Yeah, no wonder managment believes EBITDA is a "meaningful measure of the company’s park-level operating results." I'd want to think that too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hauntguy Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 SF is doing better why? It's more affordable for everyone! Food, Tickets, Parking, etc. Why go to a CF park when SF is way more affordable? -Hauntguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 SF is doing better why? It's more affordable for everyone! Food, Tickets, Parking, etc. Why go to a CF park when SF is way more affordable? -Hauntguy Wow, who would have ever thought just two years ago we would have a comment like this. (Not saying anything wrong with it!) While I don't have the numbers infront of me, it would also appear that CF spent more on park improvements this year (several big rides) while SF most did small family attractions and shows. I wonder if CF might be able to learn something from this, theming and family attractions must be a major part of a parks strategy and not just adding coasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutedarkness Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I doubt it is gas prices. It would force familys to stay more local and not travel to lets say disney or farther. But better news for Geauga Lake, nothing negtive this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutedarkness Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 SF is doing better why? It's more affordable for everyone! Food, Tickets, Parking, etc. Why go to a CF park when SF is way more affordable? -Hauntguy Affordiable? when i went to Six flags it was 8 dollars for a slice of fake papa johns pizza. It was nearly over 50 dollars a day ticket. Pop was 4 dollars? Cedar Fair's prices rnt as crazy as six flags yet. IDK about kentucky tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 On Sat. we went to KI for a little while (mid day) and I was suprised by the lack of people. Here it was the end of July (major season), nice weather, yet the main parking lot was not even close to being full and the parking lots over by BB were almost completely empty. I remember last year and the year before when we would have to park in the far out lot by BB on such a day. I was even suprised at the lines, most of major rides had only about half of their waiting areas full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutedarkness Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Lack of free tickets? I was talking to someone who works at ki and i think they said they got like 15 free tickets? now times that by how many employees there are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 After listening to the conference call, its seems that I some how are banking on a significant boost in attendance during the 3rd quarter, even though July (part of that 3rd quarter) is already down 7%. They are hanging their hat on Halloween. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Was that not the shortest conference call you've ever heard? Usually it's best to pack a lunch and bring sleeping bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Does make you wonder why more investors didn't wonder what was up. Maybe everyone is going to give them a little more time to get things going in a more positive direction. Something tells me that if they can't show some reversal by the November call there will be more questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Well, short conference calls tend to speak volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Well, short conference calls tend to speak volumes. What do you think they were saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooferBearATL Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Well, short conference calls tend to speak volumes. What do you think they were saying? The first thing that I think is that it's far too early to jump to any kind of conclusion upon profit and loss ratio. Certainly CF has determined how much they are willing to lose over the next few years. Taking on the kind of debt they did, it's only natural to assume that there will be a disparity. As far as the matter of the conference call being short, I'd suspect it was short as they did not want to go into information that they did not want to go into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Honestly, I think the decline could be in season tickets versus single day tickets. I know that in the long run, if you go more than once, KI is potentially losing $50 a day per person. We've been 7 times this year, and there have been days when we went with only gas money, and took our own food. Single day guests tend to "make a day of it" and buy souvenirs, eat well, and buy lots of $3 sodas. Lots of families with passes load up the car and pack a lunch, and keep $$ spending on the cheap, buying only necessities while inside the park. I know having a season pass, I've spent less money (that's including BOTH gold passes and our parking pass) in the 7 trips we've taken this year than I did in one or two in previous years. As far as CF goes, I know that Cedar Point turns a lot of their revenue. I just think that families are sticking closer to home these days, and trying to make the most of their time without spending a lot of $$. And I also think families are trying to be healthier, inside and outside the home, and truth is, an amusement park is not the healthiest place on the planet with the food choices they offer. Many are thinking "green" and "whole foods" and you can't find that at an amusement park, at least that I know of. deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nn123 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I also noticed that the park on average wasn't as full as has been in past years, who would have thought that. Back in April, I was sure KI would have super crowds, I mean new ownership and Firehawk. I wonder why attendance is down ? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hauntguy Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I think Deb said it correctly... people are sticking closer to home! This is probably 100% the fault of higher gas prices, people just won't drive far from home to visit a park. Myself, I am a pass holder and just like Deb, will take a cooler of food and gas money. That's it. It's going to HAVE to take one of three things to bring attendance back to the park: -Oil/Gas prices fall WAY down! -People start buying greener "hybrid" cars to save on fuel -Parks lower prices in a MAJOR way in order to bring people back. I hope it's ALL of the above. -Hauntguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I think Deb said it correctly... people are sticking closer to home! This is probably 100% the fault of higher gas prices, people just won't drive far from home to visit a park. Myself, I am a pass holder and just like Deb, will take a cooler of food and gas money. That's it. It's going to HAVE to take one of three things to bring attendance back to the park: -Oil/Gas prices fall WAY down! -People start buying greener "hybrid" cars to save on fuel -Parks lower prices in a MAJOR way in order to bring people back. I hope it's ALL of the above. -Hauntguy OMG. someone thought *I* said something right! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I found it interesting that during the conference call, one analyst in essence said words to this effect: "You put in a $20 million coaster at Cedar Point, Maverick, and attendance is not up. When are we going to see a return on our investment in that coaster?" Mr. Kinzel's reply was the most important quarter for Cedar Point is this one, not the second, and they think they will hit their projections. Earlier in the conference call, he kept stressing pricing integrity and not giving away the product, especially at the Paramount Parks. I suspect this means people who are expecting free parking, etc., to continue next season with the purchase of a season pass may well be disappointed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I suspect this means people who are expecting free parking, etc., to continue next season with the purchase of a season pass may well be disappointed... Interpreter, I always like reading your posts...and up until now I have always understood what you were saying. I was curious, in your post you put "free parking, etc." What do you mean by etc...? What other benefit that you get with a season pass do you think the park would actually charge for instead of "giving" it away other than parking? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italianchef Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 The numbers are not good. Perhaps it is a matter of time before CF publicly puts a big "For Sale" sign on itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I suspect this means people who are expecting free parking, etc., to continue next season with the purchase of a season pass may well be disappointed... Interpreter, I always like reading your posts...and up until now I have always understood what you were saying. I was curious, in your post you put "free parking, etc." What do you mean by etc...? What other benefit that you get with a season pass do you think the park would actually charge for instead of "giving" it away other than parking? Just curious. Given the debt levels, I would not be too surprised to see things such as the Gold Pass benefits become an additional charge item, not unlike Joe Cool at Cedar Point. I must say Joe Cool is a far better deal for the guest than is the Flashpash system in effect at many Six Flags... I can also see them doing away with double ride days, etc...unless you purchase a Joe Cool membership...or whatever name they may put on it. I do NOT know this, I am only surmising and thinking what I might do if I were in Mr. Kinzel's shoes AND had his philosophy, to the extent I can figure out what that might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIVortex Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Wouldn't that further reduce season pass sales? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Yes, which is, unbelievably, not necessarily a bad thing. If more single day ticket buyers show up and fewer season pass holders, you may well see higher profits and shorter lines. I believe Mr. Kinzel calls this "pricing integrity." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I just noticed something... CF is worried about sales and attendance.. yet they use a name that was originally associated with cigarettes... Joe Cool was the Camel cig brand camel... And they had to stop using him because it targeted children. I have to say as a parent, I definitely would not want my kids associating with something that was once a cig icon.. But that's just me. I can see other parents being the same, cigarettes are one of the most controversial habits in the world these days. That alone could possibly have parents taking their children elsewhere. How can they enforce the designated smoking areas (if CP has them) when they have that camel as an icon? deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Uh, Joe Cool was a character Snoopy talked about a long time before Camel ever used it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Oh, ok. I had no clue. I had only ever seen/heard of Joe Cool being in the cig ads. Learn something new every day! deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Joe Cool: http://www.ilovehou.com/twonicknames/gifsi...sh/joecool2.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.