The Interpreter Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Cedar Fair says NO to stadium: http://www.sfgate.co...9/BA9KSNDN3.DTL So NOW, the 49ers may buy the theme park? http://sportsillustr...ers.stadium.ap/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Well if they make an offer that Cedar Fair cant refuse this may just be the last of Great America. If they were willing to spend 853 million dollars on a parking-lot , its untelling what they offer on Great America Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Uh, the $853 million is for the stadium. And "they" includes the usual government incentives included in such projects. The parking lot that is needed is the SAME parking lot Great America uses. And Cedar Fair does NOT own it, they lease it (and the park lands) from the City of Santa Clara. They DO own the equipment and the park itself, but NOT the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 This could get very intresting; I could see the offer for this amuesment park hitting upper hundred millions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 I don't see how. Again, Cedar Fair does NOT own the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 It will be very interesting to see what if anything materializes from this. I think ultimately the fact that Cedar Fair does not own the land that Great America sits on could be one reason why they might be looking to unload this park. Not to mention the fact that the park is landlocked, and the fact that a sale of this park could produce some much needed capital to help pay down some of the company`s debt load, thus reducing some of its interest payments on its debt. I could see how Cedar Fair would be opposed to this, especially if the city is asking that Cedar Fair develop a new parking strategy for the park, with the costs being carried by Cedar Fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 As I mentioned in another thread, I believe it speaks volumes that apparently Cedar Fair was at first going to attach the Knott's name to this park, and then suddenly didn't....perhaps they knew the time might soon come that they would knott own or operate the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Butcher Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Not to mention, if the company has a good plan right now as is to pay down the debt, then the extra money recieved from a sale could just go directly into the other parks to help pay down its debt further and bolster infrastructure in some parks. Now obviously there is speculation that a good plan to pay down the debt does not exist, but one can hope, and I for one would like to see some of that cash go into a "buying of time" of sorts to lower food prices and better Kings Island. Note, I do realize that creditors will have a great say on where that cash goes, if a sale is made! (For those younger viewers out there who may not understand the importance of creditors in a situation like this....I will let Interpreter fill you in...ive typed enough!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Believe me, I`m certain that Cedar Fair has an exact plan with how to pay off their debt. And I`m certain that if they were to sell off one of their parks, the proceeds from the sale would go directly to reducing their debt load. It would not go to capital expenditures at the other parks, or to reduced food prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollerNut Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Doesn't the lease agreement for the land state that GA must remain a theme park also? Wouldn't that make everyone up the creek without a paddle. Cedar Fair= Selling only a lease agreement and what rides can't be relocated Santa Clara= A theme park without management Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Except, except, except, who owns the land and is the lessor? The City of Santa Clara. And who really, really wants this stadium in their community? Gee... And yet it is not uncontroversial, there, either: http://www.examiner.com/a-979070~Play_cloc...ners__move.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 More details and analysis: http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7134417 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Butcher Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Believe me, I`m certain that Cedar Fair has an exact plan with how to pay off their debt. And I`m certain that if they were to sell off one of their parks, the proceeds from the sale would go directly to reducing their debt load. It would not go to capital expenditures at the other parks, or to reduced food prices. Oh I certainly agree with you, I have stated here in the past that I felt they did have a plan in place. I included the speculation that they didn't, as an appeal to keep people from posting in response that they were trying to find an investor earlier and must not have a good plan! As for the Capital expendidtures, I would personally like that rather than a direct payoff. Creditors may think otherwise, the greedy part of me wants upgrades. I think either idea could work, but paying off creditors is undoubtedly a more sound option and in their situation probably smarter. It would take much further analasys and a real gut-check. Interpreter, what is the feasability of Cedar Fair selling the theme park to the 49'ers for a price less than what is expected as its worth and staying on to run the park as the management team for a yearly payment? The park could immediatly decrease the debt, and although less, still make money from the park via managing it, making both people happy. Could this work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIBeast Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Believe me, I`m certain that Cedar Fair has an exact plan with how to pay off their debt. And I`m certain that if they were to sell off one of their parks, the proceeds from the sale would go directly to reducing their debt load. It would not go to capital expenditures at the other parks, or to reduced food prices. From what I understand, their plan will have them paid off in 2012. Something Jeff Putz over at Coasterbuzz has been saying. Take it for what it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XGatorHead 8904 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Opening 2012... SAN FRANCISCO 49ER'S BOOMTOWN Featuring: The Mine Shaft, formerly Drop Zone Wheel of Fortune, formerly Survivor the Ride Runaway Mine Car, formerly Demon OK, I'm tapped out of ideas. I'm just surprised that they would like a stadium there. From what I remember there are lots of office buildings in the area, but I do remember GA's parking lot as being HUGE compared to the crowd that was there on the day I went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniebald57 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Whoever said Great America was losing money? If the park is profitable, it makes zero sense to sell. There is a long term lease with the city, and only the locals could really change something like that. I think it's funny that the other party just mentions how they would buy the park to get it out of the way. I'm not sure that taxpayers who are uncertain about a stadium in the first place, would like the team buying and then tearing down the park. For one, they may actually like the park, and two, it would probably be the local money going to such a project. The land isn't Cedar Fair's to sell from what I understand, so they would benefit very little from closing Great America. In fact, coming out and saying that they are opposed to the stadium says something. Sounds like a parking issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Yes. Look how soon preseason games for the NFL start. And the fact that these games would occur at peak times for Great America is problematic. Also, I believe from what I have read that if Cedar Fair does not want this stadium built, they have provisions with their lease that could allow them to essentially veto the stadium from being built. It will be interesting to see if they release a statement today, what the statement concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Cedar Fair Opposes Proposed 49ers Stadium Wednesday, October 10, 2007; Posted: 11:58 AM SANDUSKY, Ohio, Oct 10, 2007 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- FUN | -- The San Francisco 49ers, the City of Santa Clara and Cedar Fair Entertainment Company (the owner of Great America), have had a series of meetings to discuss the 49ers' proposed new stadium to be located on Great America's main parking lot. The land on which Great America and the parking lot is located is owned by the City of Santa Clara but is leased to Cedar Fair through 2039. After a careful review of the 49ers' proposal, Cedar Fair believes that the traffic, parking and other operational problems that would be created by putting the stadium in the middle of Great America's main parking area are insurmountable and would place the continued operation of the park at risk. Cedar Fair has analyzed information provided by the 49ers themselves regarding parking, usage dates, project footprint, and traffic flow. While other parties can weigh in on the fiscal and environmental risks that building a new stadium would bring to the residents of Santa Clara, we oppose the stadium as proposed for three basic reasons specific to the interests of Great America's guests: 1. Unacceptable parking limitations for Great America visitors. 2. Increased congestion for Great America visitors. 3. Irreconcilable limits on Great America improvement plans. When Cedar Fair concluded that an amusement park and the stadium as proposed could not successfully coexist, Cedar Fair offered the City and the 49ers the option of redeveloping the entire parcel. The next step will be for the citizens and the City of Santa Clara to decide: should the Great America site be used for a new 49ers' stadium or should the park continue to operate? If the City and its citizens believe that the best use of this property is for a new stadium, then Cedar Fair is willing to consider selling the remainder of its lease and all of its interest and assets to the City or 49ers for fair market value. Great America has been a favorite family destination for generations of visitors who enjoy clean, affordable, accessible entertainment. Cedar Fair is committed to maximizing the experience of our guests at Great America; the 49ers stadium as proposed is a threat to that commitment. Cedar Fair is a publicly traded partnership headquartered in Sandusky, Ohio, and one of the largest regional amusement-resort operators in the world. The partnership owns and operates 11 amusement parks, six outdoor water parks, one indoor water park and five hotels. Amusement parks in the company's northern region include two in Ohio: Cedar Point, consistently voted "Best Amusement Park in the World" in Amusement Today polls and Kings Island; as well as Canada's Wonderland, near Toronto; Dorney Park, PA; Valleyfair, MN; and Michigan's Adventure, MI. In the southern region are Kings Dominion, VA; Carowinds, NC; and Worlds of Fun, MO. Western parks in California include: Knott's Berry Farm; Great America; and Gilroy Gardens, which is managed under contract. Also included in that region is Star Trek: The Experience, a Las Vegas-based interactive adventure. This news release and prior releases are available online at www.cedarfair.com. SOURCE Cedar Fair Entertainment Company http://www.cedarfair.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Believe me, I`m certain that Cedar Fair has an exact plan with how to pay off their debt. And I`m certain that if they were to sell off one of their parks, the proceeds from the sale would go directly to reducing their debt load. It would not go to capital expenditures at the other parks, or to reduced food prices. From what I understand, their plan will have them paid off in 2012. Something Jeff Putz over at Coasterbuzz has been saying. Take it for what it's worth. With all due respect to Mr. Putz and his site but where has this been confirmed by Cedar Fair? So far in their conference calls they haven't given an accurate estimate let alone much indulged us in what their exact plan is? While Mr. Putz could be right, I certainly dont see where he's getting that information from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 And a news story in the aftermath of the press release: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories...08/daily48.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 The 49ers OR Roller Coasters? http://www.forbes.com/markets/currencies/2...0markets38.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kwindshawne Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Except, except, except, who owns the land and is the lessor? The City of Santa Clara. And who really, really wants this stadium in their community? Gee... And yet it is not uncontroversial, there, either: http://www.examiner.com/a-979070~Play_cloc...ners__move.html I said this some time ago..I cannot imagine turning that into a stadium..I mean I lived right off the Lawrence expressway (off hwy 101) from 1988-1992, and that place was a traffic nightmare then. I cannot imagine moving the niners there...and let me tell you, back then it was a really big deal...the amount of support from the whole bay area....I am trying to imagine how it would work..seriously, except if it was 3 am, 101 is darn near impassible due to congestion from there clear to san fran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 A VERY insightful, if somewhat speculative, analysis: http://www.insidebayarea.com/sanmateocountytimes/ci_7146083 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Maple The Tree King Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Here is what York discovered: Great America is not Cedar Fair's favorite property. The company owns 18 theme parks. It owns the land beneath all of them except Great America, which is also one of Cedar Fair's most underperforming parks. Early on, York expected Cedar Fair might eventually want to sell and evacuate Santa Clara. "They brought litigators to all of our meetings," York said. "They never brought operations people that could sit down with us and figure out, you know, 'What are your concerns?' Whatever concerns Cedar Fair had, we got in draft form from their attorneys. When we showed them how we would mitigate those concerns, they kept coming up with other things. Nothing was ever solved. Typical, typical Cedar Fair... This quote in particular.... "They never brought operations people that could sit down with us and figure out, you know, 'What are your concerns?' Reminds me of a certain other park where Kinzel and co. came in and didn't listen to what the folks working there had to say because in the end they got exactly what they wanted from that place and the next time they saw Kinzel; he was showing them security and having them escorted out the front gate while the rides came down behind them. Cedar Fair is obviously trying to get teh sweetest, most profitable deal they can get out of the situation. I really like this guy; Jed York, and his idea for the site: "I wouldn't close the door on anything," York said. "It's wild stuff, but if you had a West Coast branch of the Pro Football Hall of Fame or something and tied more of a NFL theme to the park, that would be cool." Now thats an idea I like! Goodbye Cedar Fair, and hello NFL theme park! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Except, except, except, who owns the land and is the lessor? The City of Santa Clara. And who really, really wants this stadium in their community? Gee... And yet it is not uncontroversial, there, either: http://www.examiner.com/a-979070~Play_cloc...ners__move.html I said this some time ago..I cannot imagine turning that into a stadium..I mean I lived right off the Lawrence expressway (off hwy 101) from 1988-1992, and that place was a traffic nightmare then. I cannot imagine moving the niners there...and let me tell you, back then it was a really big deal...the amount of support from the whole bay area....I am trying to imagine how it would work..seriously, except if it was 3 am, 101 is darn near impassible due to congestion from there clear to san fran. kwind, Judging from your experience on driving out there, is there room to expand the highway or improve the infrastructure? I know that may have been awhile ago but has it improved in recent years and do you think theres room to improve that stretch of highway? I liked in that article when he mentions the idea of an NFL theme park and getting Daniel Snyder (Owner of the Washington Redskins and Chairman of Six Flags) involved for an NFL theme park. If the NFL/49er's funded such a theme park do you think they would possibly try to reach an agreement with Six Flags to manage the park similar to how Paramount Park's managed Bonafante Garden's but didn't necesarily own the park? With the way Shapiro has been leading Six Flags, that could work out nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 HA! GL, then GA! Wow! If we don't get a GL Coaster, then maybe we'll get a GA coaster! I call dibs on Raging Bull! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 HA! GL, then GA! Wow! If we don't get a GL Coaster, then maybe we'll get a GA coaster! I call dibs on Raging Bull! Uh, Raging Bull is at SIX FLAGS Great America. [Paramount's not Knott's] Great America has Grizzly. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 Today's wise advice. If you are considering selling your park, it is probably not a good idea to appeal your tax assessment and ask that it be greatly reduced. It's rather difficult to tell the tax assessor your place is worth one amount, while possibly selling your interests for what is hoped to be a much larger amount: http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7149588 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 And, an editorial: It's Thursday, Do You Know Where Your Amusement Park Is? http://sfist.com/2007/10/11/its_wednesday_d.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kwindshawne Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Except, except, except, who owns the land and is the lessor? The City of Santa Clara. And who really, really wants this stadium in their community? Gee... And yet it is not uncontroversial, there, either: http://www.examiner.com/a-979070~Play_cloc...ners__move.html I said this some time ago..I cannot imagine turning that into a stadium..I mean I lived right off the Lawrence expressway (off hwy 101) from 1988-1992, and that place was a traffic nightmare then. I cannot imagine moving the niners there...and let me tell you, back then it was a really big deal...the amount of support from the whole bay area....I am trying to imagine how it would work..seriously, except if it was 3 am, 101 is darn near impassible due to congestion from there clear to san fran. kwind, Judging from your experience on driving out there, is there room to expand the highway or improve the infrastructure? I know that may have been awhile ago but has it improved in recent years and do you think theres room to improve that stretch of highway? I liked in that article when he mentions the idea of an NFL theme park and getting Daniel Snyder (Owner of the Washington Redskins and Chairman of Six Flags) involved for an NFL theme park. If the NFL/49er's funded such a theme park do you think they would possibly try to reach an agreement with Six Flags to manage the park similar to how Paramount Park's managed Bonafante Garden's but didn't necesarily own the park? With the way Shapiro has been leading Six Flags, that could work out nice! I don't see any way to expand..I mean out there, you sleep, eat and breathe the niners..also the giants which explains the nightmare of the loma prieta earthquake of 1989, but that is another topic. Businesses actually closed so employees could get to the games, which creates a traffic nightmare of hundreds of thousands flocking to candlestick at one time. When I left Santa Clara in 1992, every available space was taken for buildings...and both directions of 101 were 3 lanes wide..in parts you had the carpool lane closer to san fran, but unless they took the buildings out and widened the highway another lane on the berm, there is no where to go. I had to go probably 10 miles south of san jose to find any open space, and that is probably eaten up by now. On a side note, if you don't drive 100, you will literally get bumped off as well (which I didn't mind one bit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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